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Author Topic: another zobo question  (Read 7761 times)

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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1123
another zobo question
« on: October 24, 2014, 07:41 PM »
I broke the pilot drill bit the other day but can't find the replacement.  Is it a special bit or will any bit the right size work?  What is the correct size? 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE

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Offline erock

  • Posts: 1254
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2014, 07:46 PM »
It's a special tapered bit.   I found that out the hard way. 

AND Festool does NOT sell just the bit.  I had to buy a whole set just to get one drill bit.   REALLY sucks!  Because the kit has stuff that probably will never break.  But I'm sure I will break another tapered bit.

Festool should have JUST the drill bit available. 

Sorry, this hits a sore spot with me.

I'll go check on the kit part number, but I did buy it from Tom Bellelmare and I'm sure he would know the part number.

Eric


Edit:  I just went out to the shop and the part number is 497 268

Offline awil66

  • Posts: 145
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 08:00 PM »
If you call festool service they will sell it over the phone. I bought 5 of the long pilot bits a while back. Hope they still do this.

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: another zobo question
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 08:42 PM »
If you call festool service they will sell it over the phone. I bought 5 of the long pilot bits a while back. Hope they still do this.


Can you please look that up and report to us how you ordered it?

I went 'round-and-round' trying to get just the bit. The parts system made it look like it might be available and I ordered the part shown but it was wrong. Multiple people in Indiana got involved - many times all thought they had the answer and each time, it failed. More than one of the people at Festool IN tried really hard to get the right part and it never worked.

If you have the trick, I'm all ears...


Tom
Tom Bellemare
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www.tool-home.com
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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1123
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 08:44 PM »
It figures...   ::)  BTW, we had a landscape contractor working with us to put lighting in our backyard.  I am finishing building a pergola over our outdoor kitchen and he needed to drill a 1" hole about half way through the side of a 2 x 8 to meet up with a hole drilled from the top of the board to pull a wire to hook up the lights.  He pulled out a sleeve of spade bits and started to make his hole and I had stop him because of the long point would probably pop through the other side before the main part of the hole was deep enough.  I went to the garage and whipped out the zobos and told him to use those.  His eyes got as big a silver dollars when he saw how much easier it was with no chance of blowing through the other side.  Same thing when we needed to cut a quarter circle at the end of each transverse board on top of the pergola.  I recently got the accessory kit for the carvex and used the circle cutter.  Perfection.  No sanding needed.  No trying to follow a line.  I think I just had someone new drink the green Koolaide.   ;D ;D
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1123
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2014, 08:46 PM »
hey Tom.  Could you have some by Wed?  I will be Austin and would love to stop by and see you. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE

Offline awil66

  • Posts: 145
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2014, 08:47 PM »
It was at least a year ago, and I believe I talked to a helpful female employee.
But the reason I knew I could do that was because of a thread on here after the zobos came out. Someone asked if the bits were replaceable, and I believe Shane responded with the number to call and the part number.
Hope that helps.

Offline awil66

  • Posts: 145
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2014, 09:00 PM »
The thread is called "replacement pilot bits for the zobos"
761979 center bit for zobo

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: another zobo question
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2014, 09:05 PM »
hey Tom.  Could you have some by Wed?  I will be Austin and would love to stop by and see you.

After going through a lot of attempts to get just the points or drill bit, it turned out that there really was no number to sell other than 497268, which is the same set that comes with the Zobo set. I do have one of those sets, Howard.

About a month or two ago, when I was seeking these for Eric, it looked like one could order the individual components but, apparently, that was a mistake in the parts list. I think some ultra-friendly sorts in Lebanon broke things up and made it look like the parts were readily available but when I/we came along, only the set was available.

If anyone knows anything to the contrary, I'm happy to learn. I have had more than just Eric ask me for these bits. I'm pretty certain that the bits and points have tapered shafts and are probably not off-the-shelf components. I, unfortunately, didn't realize that until recently.


Tom

Tom Bellemare
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Tool Home LLC
www.tool-home.com
512-428-9140

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1123
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2014, 10:22 PM »
Thanks Tom.  I don't need all those other things.  I'll call Festool on Monday and see what's what.  Seems kinda crazy considering how fragile those bits are that they don't sell them separately. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 895
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2014, 03:58 AM »
Yes it IS an unfair business practice to provide a system accessory that is so fragile, part of an expensive piece of kit, that can't be replaced individually..
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 01:29 PM by PreferrablyWood »
RO 150, 850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline fatroman

  • Posts: 202
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2014, 07:55 AM »
Tom,

Will this work?

http://www.timbertools.com/Products/Drill-bits-Zobo-central-drilling-system2.html

Not sure if these are the same as the Festool ones.
El duende está lleno de mierda!

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1222
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2014, 09:31 AM »
Please post an update after you call them.  If it's true that they don't sell replacement consumables for such an expensive accessory, I'm going to do everything I can to effect a change.  I believe this is also the case with their centrotec imperial brad point kit.  At the very least, if that's how they choose to market their goods, a better effort should be made to honestly represent this in their advertising.  These are not $19.99 sets from the big box stores.  We should have access to replacement parts in these kits without jumping through hoops.
-Raj

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: another zobo question
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2014, 12:46 PM »
Tom,

Will this work?

http://www.timbertools.com/Products/Drill-bits-Zobo-central-drilling-system2.html

Not sure if these are the same as the Festool ones.


I'm not positive but that looks like the right bits.


Tom
Tom Bellemare
Customer Svc
Tool Home LLC
www.tool-home.com
512-428-9140

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: another zobo question
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2014, 12:52 PM »
hey Tom.  Could you have some by Wed?  I will be Austin and would love to stop by and see you.


Howard:

I'll check again and see if I can buy the correct bit from Festool. If so, I'll sell you the one from this little kit and back fill it later. I ordered what was supposed to be the right bit and it wasn't even close but maybe they have it worked out by now. That was a few months ago.

In either case, you should stop by...


Tom
Tom Bellemare
Customer Svc
Tool Home LLC
www.tool-home.com
512-428-9140

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: another zobo question
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2014, 01:19 PM »
The thread is called "replacement pilot bits for the zobos"
761979 center bit for zobo


Unfortunately, that part number, (761979), doesn't show up in the Master Product List.


Tom
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 03:51 PM by Tom Bellemare »
Tom Bellemare
Customer Svc
Tool Home LLC
www.tool-home.com
512-428-9140

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 895
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2014, 01:37 PM »
I noticed the small container for the guide and the bit when I bought my centrotec zobo bit set. It didn't seem at the time that it was prohibitively expensive, but now I know how fragile they are..I'm sure with a little gentle pressure maybe they will reconsider
RO 150, 850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1123
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2014, 11:00 AM »
So I spoke to the good people at Festool this morning and they confirmed they only sell the kit that comes in the tube including the shorter brad points.  However, they also said these are exactly the same as the Zobo brand, they are simply rebranded for Festool.  The replacement bits you can get from Timberwolf are direct replacements.  They aren't cheap, $43 including shipping for 2 of them so I will be very, very careful the next time I use them. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1222
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2014, 11:15 AM »
And how much is the kit with the brad points?  I'm guessing more than the bit from timberwolf?

Oh, and do you happen to know the part # for the festool kit?
-Raj

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1123
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2014, 12:25 PM »
The Festool kit is $25 and the part number is 497268.  However, you only get one drill bit.  I don't need the short center points so that's why I ordered the version from Timberwolf. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 895
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2014, 04:24 PM »
I hope I can find a supplier over here in Europe, it would probably be possible to find a okay price with some digging...

I would say the issue is almost resolved with this news and I'm  :) again..
RO 150, 850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline carlb40

  • Posts: 370
  • Site carpenter
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2014, 04:37 PM »
I hope I can find a supplier over here in Europe, it would probably be possible to find a okay price with some digging...

I would say the issue is almost resolved with this news and I'm  :) again..


These might be able to help. It looks like they sell a bigger range of zobo drill bits.
http://www.weiblen.de/en/woodworking/drill-bits-and-drill-assortments/zobo-drill-bits/

Make sure you are sitting down before opening the link. They make Festool prices look like they are from aldi.  [eek]
Carl

Never never go, never never know [smile]

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Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 895
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2014, 05:00 PM »
∑∑∑ [eek] I'm [eek] in [eek] Schock ∑∑∑

RO 150, 850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1222
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2014, 05:32 PM »
Thanks Howard for all the good info.  I think I might do the same rather than trying to swim upstream.
-Raj

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1123
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2014, 06:03 PM »
no problem.  Sometimes it's easier to go "aftermarket" but in this case, it's the Festool brand that's the aftermarket! ;D ;D
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1123
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2014, 06:50 PM »
These might be able to help. It looks like they sell a bigger range of zobo drill bits.
http://www.weiblen.de/en/woodworking/drill-bits-and-drill-assortments/zobo-drill-bits/

Make sure you are sitting down before opening the link. They make Festool prices look like they are from aldi.  [eek]
[/quote]

I bought a flexible curve pattern strip from them a few years ago.  They certainly have some interesting tools plus they were great to work with. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE

Offline Tom Bellemare

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  • Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
    • Tool Home LLC
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2014, 06:58 PM »
no problem.  Sometimes it's easier to go "aftermarket" but in this case, it's the Festool brand that's the aftermarket! ;D ;D

I may be all wet but I think Tooltechnic owns the company that makes Zobo bits. Tooltechnic is the Parent of Festool, Tanos, etc...


Tom
Tom Bellemare
Customer Svc
Tool Home LLC
www.tool-home.com
512-428-9140

Offline Pyotr

  • Posts: 42
  • woodworking rookie
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2014, 06:58 PM »
I hope I can find a supplier over here in Europe, it would probably be possible to find a okay price with some digging...

Google for "zobo Zentrierbohrer 2,5x30", "Protool 761979" or "EAN 8590163960089" and you'll find some, all around 6 euro including tax (excluding shipping).
MFT/3 - TS55 - RTS400 - OF1010 - RO150 - C12 (NiCd) - DF500

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 895
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2014, 02:17 PM »
I hope I can find a supplier over here in Europe, it would probably be possible to find a okay price with some digging...

Google for "zobo Zentrierbohrer 2,5x30", "Protool 761979" or "EAN 8590163960089" and you'll find some, all around 6 euro including tax (excluding shipping).

Thanks for the help!
RO 150, 850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1123
Re: another zobo question
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2014, 09:32 AM »
zobo also makes extensions for these bits, however, it doesn't look like they would work on the centrotec system.  The extensions screw in to the bottom of the main bit and then can be extended for a long ways.  How would we do that on the centrotec style?
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE