All:

I currently do not own any Festool products. My tool inventory is somewhat anemic and consists of a DeWalt jigsaw and a robust compliment of hand tools. Since the purchase of a 4500 Sq-Ft home, my eagerness for woodworking has reached its peak. My future projects would include:

1) Trim work, crown molding, casings, etc.
2) Smaller work such as picture frames
3) Built-ins such as book cases & entertainment niches
4) Wood flooring, coffered ceiling, etc.
5) Furniture (as experience is gained)
6) Outdoor woodworking projects

BACKGROUND:
My wife and I are in the US Navy and we alternate deployments. Consequently, 8 month periods away from one another is not uncommon. The goal is to take on a hobby that will occupy my time, be challenging, and yield stunning woodwork for everyone's enjoyment to boot. The genesis of my membership to FOG and this post resulted from hours of research on the best SCMS. This is when I introduced myself to FESTOOL. Although the disparity in price to competitors is quite large, I am still impressed with the features and benefits of FESTOOL.

END-STATE:
To have an enviable workshop that will address those projects above. I do not want to buy the biggest and badest -- just because. However, I do not want to upgrade in the future just to meet the needs of a single project.

Please advise guidance and suggestions on the tools I'll be needing to fully populate my two car garage workshop. (I have already planned for parking in the street- a benefit of So-cal) Other advice on purchasing retail or on-line, and the best places for each, would be truly appreciated.

Thank you in advance to all who engage this post.

--Jay

Welcome Jay,

I'll take a stab at it.  The following list would be a very good start.   Obviously there are many more tools that would be very convenient to have, but other than the Kapex, I started with the tools listed.

Kapex
CT22
Rotex
TS55
MFT3

Once you start building bookcases or furniture I'd also get a domino.   

Non-festool tools would include a jointer, bandsaw, table saw and dust collector.

Fred

He's right. It's like a drug. Once you feel the quality and innovation of the tools you will not want to use anything else and it will suck up your money worse than any drug addiction.

Now welcome to FOG.

I second what Fred said. The vac - CT22, the saw - TS55 and the MFT3 is the right place to start with the rotex close behind. To add to that would be the domino and then for finishing what you are building the rotex and maybe the OF1010.

Goodluck and I hope you earn lots

Chris

I agree with Fred

FESTOOL
Kapex - Expensive but does same cuts as a large chop saw but is much lighter and half the size of a large chop saw + many features

CT22 - Brilliant vacuum very powerfull and very light  bit big but no big deal attaches to all festool tools with extraction port

Rotex - Dont own one my self thinking of getting one  but from what people say good sander

TS55  2x 1.4m guide rails needed  ( My first Festool I bought 3or so years ago)  I  bought a Bosch Planer and the TS55 I used the TS55 took the bosch straight back and bought the Festool EHL 65 because I loved the TS55 and thought if this is good the Planer must be good. A must tool you can not live with out it this should be your first festool you buy. Now most my tools are festool all because of this saw lol.

MFT3 - Brilliant for work on clamping small projects down while working on it many possible attachments and ways of clamping

Domino - Much quicker than doing mortise and tenons and good for picture frames keeps them solid

T+15 drill you can get any where with that drill with the offset and angle adapter

Festool OF router - Powerfull routers they work on the guide rails and has easy base change and aswell as the TS55 can fit on the CMS bench so saving space in your garage

Bench saw festool do Festool CMS so your TS 55 can fit onto it
or
Trimming saw PRECISIO CS   I dont own either so not sure what they are like and if they are worth the high cost.

A really handy tool to own is the

Fein Multi Master   - Brilliant tool good for sanding something small quickly and good for cutting things you cant physically get to with hand saw or other hand tools.

All,

I appreciate the warm greetings and salutations.

Looks like I'll be ordering the Kapex w/ the CT22. Little unsure about the MFT though. Seems chintzy. I'm a guy more concerned with quality and less with portability. That's the whole reason I gravitated towards FESTOOL to begin with. Is there a more robust substitute for this table? I already have on order:

1) The Workbench Book: A Craftsman's Guide from the Publishers of Fine Woodworking
2) Workbenches: From Design And Theory To Construction And Use
3) The Workbench: A Complete Guide to Creating Your Perfect Bench

Also, is there a significant difference in functionality when comparing the TS55 vs. TS75? All recommended the former, but doesn't the TS75 do all the TS55 does, and more? Same for the routers. If I can afford the OF2200, would I be better off with it or is there inherent benefits to the smaller, less powerful models? Similar scenario for the sanders. Do I spend $500 on the versatile RO150 (which says it does it all) or should I plan to purchase a combination of two others, like Dan suggested with the ETS150/3 compliment. If so, I can see how this adventure will soon add up, monetarily that is. Perhaps I just need to educate myself more thoroughly on the functionality of each tool.

Before I place my orders, are there any suggestions on websites or should I stick to my local retailers and pay CA sales tax? - stupid question, I guess.

Thanks again.

-Jay

True, but our trade-off if that we have some additional products such as the CMS line..

The MFT really is a quality item.  It may seem flimsy compared to the typical woodworker's workbench, but those are oriented towards working with hand tools while the MFT is designed to work well with hand-held power tools -- especially the Festools that use the guide rails.  The MFT is also an excellent bench for sanding and assembly work.  If you haven't already done so, check out Jerry Work's, "Getting the Most Out of the Festool Multifunction Table" -- this may change your perspective.



Theses two saws are very similar.  The big difference is their capacity (how deep they cut) and their weight.  Most prefer the TS55 simply because it is lighter, thus easier to use.



Here again, many would prefer to use the lightest/smallest router for the job.  However, the smaller routers will only accept 1/4" and 8mm bits, while the larger 1400 and 2200 will also accept 1/2" cutters.  Over time, you will probably want more than just one router.  I have all but the new 2200, but I would be happy with just the 2200 and 1010.



Festool offers several sanders, and each has its own advantages.  With any luck, we should also have the new RO90 available here sometime soon.  Forrest Anderson has put together a Consolidated List of Festool Links that contains reviews, videos, brochures, user manuals that you should check out.  Be sure to check out the supplemental manuals for any of the Festools that you purchase or are thinking of purchasing, as they offer a great deal more than the Festool manuals.

Well, as you can see, we don't call it a slippery slope for nothing. 

Jay,

While the MFT is less than awe inspiring at first glance, I've found it to be the tool I use most in my shop.   I definitely recommend buying one and trying if for 30 days before deciding.   Its not a replacement for a heavy traditional bench, but it is amazingly versatile and useful.

Fred

Jay,

The tools should fit your needs and constraints.  Since you have the available space in your garage, it seems like you could build a nice, fixed workshop to while away the hours doing wood shop kinds of things.  

Think about my phraseology.  Sounds a bit strange doesn't it?   It's intentional.   A key question to answer is whether you want to "while away the hours" or are you focused on the end results?  

From your original post, it looks like the latter.  Here's your original list of projects:


So, while you could set up a very traditional shop and while it sounds nice...   IMO, your project list suggests something else.   Breaking down your list by project, here are the tools I think you would need and where you would need them:

1) Trim work, crown molding, casings, etc. - WORK SITE: Kapex, pneumatic nailers (15g, 18g, 23g), block planes, chisels, rasps.   MFT and clamps would be useful.   Domino with 4 and 5mm Dominos.  
 
2) Smaller work such as picture frames - SHOP: Kapex, MFT or Kreg Klamp table, Domino with 4mm Dominos, router table.  

3) Built-ins such as book cases & entertainment niches - SHOP and WORK SITE (installs): TS55, MFT, LR32, Kapex, OF1010 or OF1400 router, pneumatic nailers (15g, 18g, 23g), block planes, chisels, rasps.   (Here's Eiji Fuller's website: http://www.fullerbuilt.com/ . Eiji is a professional finish carpenter and furniture maker.   He's a heavy Festool user and he is GOOD.)

4a) Wood flooring - WORK SITE: Kapex, pneumatic nailer, block planes, chisels, rasps.

4b) Coffered ceiling, etc. - SHOP and WORK SITE (installs): Kapex, TS55, MFT, pneumatic nailers (15g, 18g), block planes, chisels, rasps.

The last two are a bit more difficult because it's not clear what you mean by "Furniture" and "Outdoor woodworking projects".   For furniture, it all depends on what you want to make.   If it involves a lot of intricate carving and hand work, a heavy traditional workbench would probably be better.  For more modern furniture, perhaps not.   It all depends.   For the most part, this is probably SHOP work.  

Check out Poto's post in this thread: http://www.talkfestool.com/vb/festool-tools/3618-festool-hobbyist.html.   He included links to several of his furniture projects.  He's a heavy Festool user.

"Outdoor woodworking projects" is a toughie too because that covers a wide range of things.   If you're building retaining walls, you probably need heavy construction tools.   Festool tools probably won't help much for that.  OTOH, if you mean building a deck, then a Kapex for cutting 2X and 5/4 decks boards is the ticket.   And MFT can be useful if it's kept under cover.   While I'm not sure, I think this is WORK SITE also.  

One point in this post is that it looks like a lot of your projects involve building or installing at the work site.   Traditional workshops and workbenches don't work too well if you have to run back and forth to the workshop to do your work.   Here's a pic to illustrate.  I'm remodeling my master bath.   When I installed the tub-deck, I found that I mis-measured and cut it too wide.  Instead of dragging it down to a garage shop to cut it, I simply slid it off to the side, cut with a rail, and slid it back.  WAY faster and easier:

The other point in this post is that the Festool system is not merely a nice set of tools.  It's a paradigm shift.  It's a different approach.   The Festool system's focus is not on individual tools.  It is on how you can quickly combine them to efficiently achieve and end-result.  For example, the CT22 and MFT are not merely a vac and work table.   They allow you to work inside at the work site - to set up quickly, cut or rout with little or no dust, and break down when finished.  

The problem for all of us is that most woodworkers are bound to an older, different paradigm. And that includes most books on the subject.  Anything wrong with that?  No.  IF, that is, you enjoy that paradigm.  And IF it works well for your projects.  The issue is...

With the exception of furniture making, it looks like most of your projects would benefit from the newer, more flexible, Festool system paradigm.  While a large, heavy, fixed workbench will help with planing and carving, it won't help install wood flooring or a coffered ceiling.  While you could drag a deck ledger board to your workshop, it would probably faster and easier to cut it on a Kapex at the work site.  Trim work? With the exception of hand-cutting corbels and moldings in the shop, it's all done at the work site.

Finally, much of the discussion surrounding the older paradigm is about building the workshop (the process).  A while back, I came to the startling conclusion that I was more interested in the end result.   And, like many people, my end results differed greatly and the tasks involved for each differed greatly.  How could a traditional, fixed workshop meet my needs?   Answer...   It could NOT!   That's when I started looking for a better approach.  

My concern for you is that it looks like you have a mix of goals and needs.   The wish to have a nice wood shop for relaxation (the process) may conflict with your target projects (the end results).  For example, a nice, heavy workbench would be wonderful, but will it help you achieve your goals better than an MFT?  

IMO, finding the answer to which paradigm fits you is more important than the exact list of tools.  

Regards,

Dan.

p.s., there are several good online Festool dealer - Bob Marino and Festool Junkie are two of them.  While saving taxes is nice, a key criteria is dealer knowledge and experience.  One way to determine this is to just go talk to your local dealer.   Can they answer your DETAILED questions immediately.   Or will they "have to check it out and get back to you"?   Local dealers are good for me when I need something quickly.  Otherwise, it's online dealers for me.

Dear Dan,
Just checked Eiji Fuller's website http://www.fullerbuilt.com and I must say : "Respect"

Regards,

Nico

Outstanding post Dan.  Posts like that make this site great.

Only thing I would add, from a furniture making perspective, is that you will need some more traditional tools such as a jointer and a planer to prepare the wood.  If you are doing curves, you will need a bandsaw or at least a good jigsaw.  99% of my projects are furniture, mostly chairs these days, and I use my MFT 10 times more than my traditional bench.  To tell the truth, the main time I use the traditional bench is when I have a set-up on the MFT I don't want to break down yet...

Jay,

I am very embarrassed that I failed to thank you and your wife for your service to our country.   Many, many thanks!

Best regards,

Dan.

This is a really open-ended discussion. I started this hobby a year or so ago, and picked up tools as I found a need for them. My first Festool was a Ro125 and CT22 dust extractor, followed by a Domino. Since then I have bought a TS55 and OF1400 as well. My first project was to build a workbench. I ordered my lumber cut to my desired dimensions, so as to avoid having to get a planer and jointer. A colleague in my building has a tablesaw, bandsaw, drill press etc. which I can use if I need something on the spur of the minute.

So I would suggest choosing a project first and then seeing what tools are most important to make it. You may not need some big items until later on.

Other than that I would suggest you always buy high quality stuff. And since this is a hobby for you as well as me, I would encourage you to pick up a couple of hand tools in time such as a block plane. It really is a pleasure to use them. And check out the Wood Whisperer's podcast, he is very entertaining and will show you some good techniques.

Good luck
Richard.

I suggest you look at Martin, another German company.  Have a good sized space, some 3 phase power and a good dust collection system.   You will be able to build most anything you can imagine with the addition of a good wide belt sander and perhaps a good bandsaw and some proper tooling.  And you will never look at your Festools as expensive again...

We must dream...

Todd

Jay,

I think that I can speak for all the members here, thank you for your kind words.  As you start using your tools, if you have questions, or need any sort of help, we will be here for you just like others were for us.  That was the founding basis for this community.  When you are comfortable, we would love to know about and see what you are working on!

Have Fun!

Peter