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Author Topic: Canadian pricing  (Read 17995 times)

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Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4076
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2010, 10:14 AM »
What depression/recession?
I have chosen not to participate in any
of those activities. There are always people who
are willing to spend money.  I just had to find a few
more of them this past 6 months.

If those canadian's would send me some of that bacon
maybe we could come to a deal.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 10:18 AM by WarnerConstCo. »

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Offline Inner10

  • Posts: 191
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2010, 11:12 AM »
Quote
While we're at it why don't we get Festool to change the USA pricing when the US dollar fluctuates in relation to German currency.  That makes about as much sense as adjusting Canadian prices to reflect fluctuations in the US dollar.  Maybe I just don't get it.  Hmmm.

Good idea Dave, next time I need more Festool I'll hop in my car and drive over to Germany........oh wait...

Quote
There are two simple solutions. 1) Quote all prices in US dollars like Lee Valley. 2) Allow US dealers and Canadian dealers to ship outside their country, thereby allowing the consumer to buy where it makes most sense.

Rich, I agree.

Quote
If those canadian's would send me some of that bacon
maybe we could come to a deal.

I think a peameal bacon for systainer trade can be arranged. [big grin]

Offline Daviddubya

  • Posts: 704
  • Arizona, USA
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2010, 11:39 AM »
While we're at it why don't we get Festool to change the USA pricing when the US dollar fluctuates in relation to German currency.  That makes about as much sense as adjusting Canadian prices to reflect fluctuations in the US dollar.  Maybe I just don't get it.  Hmmm.

I see my tounge-in-cheek suggestion was not received in the humorous way it was intended.  Pricing products in response to currency fluctuations is something that is simply not going to happen.  In just the past 4 months the exchange rate for Canadian to American went from .914 to .984, not in a straight line.  If you can cross the border, buy for less, and get back across without paying a import tariff, be happy.

How's the pricing on Festool in Mexico?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 11:42 AM by Daviddubya »
David W. Falkenstein
in Cave Creek, AZ, USA

Offline JohnDistai

  • Posts: 216
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2010, 11:42 AM »
I think the solution is to ban all U.S. dealers that are within a two hour drive of the border.  This would then be fair to the Canadian dealers who may be losing sales because people are crossing the border to buy from the less expensive U.S. dealers.  It would also be somewhat consistent with the policy to ban dealers from eBay due to "unfair" third party influences.  

I'm sure Festool evaluates lots of scenarios when they price products, so they can determine what a Canadian's time is worth, the cost of gas, the hassle, etc.  They could then ban U.S. dealers from operating in that zone so that if Canadians did cross through this zone to purchase in the U.S., the difference in cost would be a wash.

I think it makes great sense!

Offline Festool USA

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
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  • Posts: 8365
    • Festool USA
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2010, 12:18 PM »
I really don't want to get into the debate going on here but I will say just a couple of things about the topic.

First, there was an adjustment made to Canadian pricing in January due to the exchange rates.  Secondly, we do listen to our customers despite some of the comments made in this thread.  In fact, I don't know of many companies that offer a public forum engaging in open dialog between the companies, dealers and customers.

Literally within moments of Andreas' post, I had sent a message to our Director of Sales in Canada to bring this conversation to his attention. Andreas, thank you for your feedback.

I take a lot of personal pride in working for a company that treats its customers, dealers and employees better than 99.99% of the companies out there. There are few companies that would go to the same extents as Festool to keep their dealers and customers happy.

Offline EcoFurniture

  • Posts: 608
    • Eco Furniture
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2010, 01:00 PM »
I really don't want to get into the debate going on here but I will say just a couple of things about the topic.

First, there was an adjustment made to Canadian pricing in January due to the exchange rates.  Secondly, we do listen to our customers despite some of the comments made in this thread.  In fact, I don't know of many companies that offer a public forum engaging in open dialog between the companies, dealers and customers.

Literally within moments of Andreas' post, I had sent a message to our Director of Sales in Canada to bring this conversation to his attention. Andreas, thank you for your feedback.

I take a lot of personal pride in working for a company that treats its customers, dealers and employees better than 99.99% of the companies out there. There are few companies that would go to the same extents as Festool to keep their dealers and customers happy.

Well said! Thank you for your response Shane.
I never had the intention to make this into a big issue. I'm sorry it went into a bashing...
And you are right. Festool and it's staff is a company that I admire and I would never question your outstanding business practices! I was just wondering about the exchange rate...
Again, thank you for looking into that!

Offline Daviddubya

  • Posts: 704
  • Arizona, USA
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2010, 01:16 PM »
One additional point about Canadian/American exchange rates.  Individuals do not get to exchange dollars at the published rates.  My wife received a check just the other day in Canadian funds.  Our bank deposited the check and charged almost 4% more than the exchange rate to make the transaction.  If the exchange rate today is .984, the real rate is about .95, after paying the bank fee to perform the exchange.
David W. Falkenstein
in Cave Creek, AZ, USA

Offline Inner10

  • Posts: 191
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2010, 05:50 PM »
Quote
One additional point about Canadian/American exchange rates.  Individuals do not get to exchange dollars at the published rates.  My wife received a check just the other day in Canadian funds.  Our bank deposited the check and charged almost 4% more than the exchange rate to make the transaction.  If the exchange rate today is .984, the real rate is about .95, after paying the bank fee to perform the exchange.

That is a couple percent difference depending on the bank, this discussion is about the relative american prices being dramatically lower then the Canadian prices.  If you are proposing that Festool should charge american prices + a 3% exchange I think us Canadians can live with that penalty.

Quote
Well said! Thank you for your response Shane.
I never had the intention to make this into a big issue. I'm sorry it went into a bashing...
And you are right. Festool and it's staff is a company that I admire and I would never question your outstanding business practices! I was just wondering about the exchange rate...
Again, thank you for looking into that!

Agreed thank you!

Quote
First, there was an adjustment made to Canadian pricing in January due to the exchange rates.  Secondly, we do listen to our customers despite some of the comments made in this thread.  In fact, I don't know of many companies that offer a public forum engaging in open dialog between the companies, dealers and customers.

Shane I recall the price drop, but there was still a big difference between US and CND prices.  It was a relativly insignificant changes.

Offline JohnDistai

  • Posts: 216
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2010, 06:49 PM »
I take a lot of personal pride in working for a company that treats its customers, dealers and employees better than 99.99% of the companies out there. There are few companies that would go to the same extents as Festool to keep their dealers and customers happy.

I'm disappointed that you would make a statement such as this.  Employees receive better treatment than employees at 99.99% of the companies out there?  Really?  Have you sampled a bunch of companies to evaluate that claim?  If this is the case, Festool should notify Forbes for inclusion in the "Best Places to Work" list.  Inclusion on the list would be great PR for Festool and would be great for both marketing and recruiting.  The next time I see a list such as this on the news I'll scour it to see if Festool, it's parent company, or any affiliates are listed.

Many companies have open forums to gather customer feedback.  This isn't some revolutionary part of business any longer.  It is required to keep up with the competition.  Maintaining a list like this isn't a just favor for the consumer.  It actually provides Festool a cheap way to collect customer feedback, market, and respond to problems or issues promptly.  Is it nice for us?  Sure.  It's nice for you, too.  Perhaps this is revolutionary in a conservative industry such as tools.  It is not revolutionary in other industries.

In regards to service, Festool is a PREMIUM priced product.  For the price we pay, we expect exceptional treatment.  It isn't any different than the service we would expect from Apple, Lexus, etc.  Of course we are going to complain about the exceptional prices we pay, and especially differences in price in relation to currency and exchange rates.  We would complain about the prices of other premium products, such as the difference in price between Macs and PC's.  Kind of goes with the territory.

In addition, if customers or dealers are not treated well then they have the freedom to choose to buy and sell different products, and Festool would not be in business.  A customer would only willingly stay if the product or margin were so outstanding that the customers and dealers were willing to put up with such abuse.  Please stop implying that having positive working relationships with customers and dealers is some sort of favor exclusive to Festool.

I really don't envy your position as a moderator of this forum.  I know you want to keep things on track and on topic.  However, please be mindful of who your CUSTOMERS are.  We are the ones paying your salary.  Please don't ever forget that.  And the fact that we are CHOOSING Festool, an incredibly expensive, not commonly known brand indicates (at least to me), that we are a bit more educated than the mass consumer.  Since you represent Festool, I ask you to please be cognizant that we are more informed.  Please stop acting like listening to your customers, having a forum, and good service is doing us some favor.  Comments like that come across as arrogant or condescending, and I don't think you personally, or as a representative of Festool want to be viewed or interpreted in that way.



Offline Inner10

  • Posts: 191
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2010, 07:16 PM »
John I think he was trying to show pride not arrogance. but it can be taken either way.

The true test will be to see if the cries are heard no?

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2010, 07:19 PM »
While we're at it why don't we get Festool to change the USA pricing when the US dollar fluctuates in relation to German currency.  That makes about as much sense as adjusting Canadian prices to reflect fluctuations in the US dollar.  Maybe I just don't get it.  Hmmm.

I see my tounge-in-cheek suggestion was not received in the humorous way it was intended.  Pricing products in response to currency fluctuations is something that is simply not going to happen.  In just the past 4 months the exchange rate for Canadian to American went from .914 to .984, not in a straight line.  If you can cross the border, buy for less, and get back across without paying a import tariff, be happy.

How's the pricing on Festool in Mexico?
I might be happy, but I have more than one collegue who is a Canadian Festool dealer and they should not be happy.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 08:27 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Cloudhook

  • Posts: 2
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2010, 07:27 PM »
To me this is a very simple matter, Festool sets their Canadian pricing structure on their products as they see fit. I own many Festools and accessories and have only bought when the price premium was deemed fair and reasonable to me. As it stands now, I won't be purchasing any Festools.
I might add that I have purchased several Apple products in the past year.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 07:29 PM by Cloudhook »

Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1854
  • NORFOLK,VA
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2010, 07:41 PM »
Just curious,but what is the cost of living in Canada as opposed to USA? Minimum wage?  What's an average income for,let say,a carpenter,cabinet maker?
Price of gas?
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline waynew

  • Posts: 69
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2010, 07:43 PM »
This is why I am sticking with Festool for the moment. When you see employees like Shane making earnest efforts to help customers it makes my decision easier to stay with them, its good to know you will get heard if the need arises.
Having said that, since mid last year I decided not to make any more Canadian purchases until this currency situation is resolved. If I have too I will make the trip to the border, I put off buying the Kapex and ended up purchasing the Ridgid 12" but thats it, I'll be waiting on the sidelines to see how it goes from here. The currency change at the beginning of the year made a little difference but the price variance is still way too large for me to justifiably purchase from a Canadian supplier. If the Canadian dollar surpasses the US dollar then it would be way simpler to peg it at the US figure and be done with it.

Shane, thank you for being so responsive to this situation.

Wayne
Ontario, Canada
I really don't want to get into the debate going on here but I will say just a couple of things about the topic.

First, there was an adjustment made to Canadian pricing in January due to the exchange rates.  Secondly, we do listen to our customers despite some of the comments made in this thread.  In fact, I don't know of many companies that offer a public forum engaging in open dialog between the companies, dealers and customers.

Literally within moments of Andreas' post, I had sent a message to our Director of Sales in Canada to bring this conversation to his attention. Andreas, thank you for your feedback.

I take a lot of personal pride in working for a company that treats its customers, dealers and employees better than 99.99% of the companies out there. There are few companies that would go to the same extents as Festool to keep their dealers and customers happy.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 07:56 PM by waynew »
Festools - the tools that make you feel like working!

Offline RL

  • Posts: 3038
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2010, 07:46 PM »
Shane,

Thanks for your response. It's good to know Festool is receiving our distress call and hopefully something can be done about this.

Another way to look at Canada/ US pricing is to compare it to two European countries such as France and Spain. Both countries share a border and it is easy to go from one to the other to buy goods.

Cost of a TS55 in France? E559.73
Cost of a TS55 in Spain? E560.28

Don't ask me where the 53c difference comes from!

I have never heard a good reason from any company as to why goods are so much more expensive in Canada than the US. Cars, furniture, toilet paper, anything. But as long as there is such a difference, and it is easy to circumvent the problem, I'll continue to buy in the US and not in Canada. The Canadian dollar would have to be at 80c to the dollar to make US and Canadian prices on the OF 1400 router the same today. Today the Canadian dollar hit 99c! In January when the adjustment was made the rate was 95c on average. We are not talking small amounts here, but massive percentage differences which make it really worthwhile to go to the US.

By the way, this is not a Festool-specific issue. This is everywhere. Porter-Cable 895 on Amazon? $244. My local tool shop? $349...on sale! You really have to laugh or you'll cry.

Richard.





Offline JohnDistai

  • Posts: 216
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2010, 08:46 PM »
Having said that, since mid last year I decided not to make any more Canadian purchases until this currency situation is resolved. If I have too I will make the trip to the border, I put off buying the Kapex and ended up purchasing the Ridgid 12" but thats it, I'll be waiting on the sidelines to see how it goes from here. The currency change at the beginning of the year made a little difference but the price variance is still way too large for me to justifiably purchase from a Canadian supplier.

I think this is analogous to the eBay issue.  Price drives behavior.  Simple economics 101.  Canadians will go to U.S. dealers due to preferred pricing.  Festool claims to want dealers to compete on pricing.  Your local and more familiar dealer would probably give you better service than a distant dealer.  However, pricing differences drive where the customer shops.  These pricing differences in the U.S. and Canada are due to a third party influence.  There really isn't any control for it, other than to adjust for third party influences and lower the price.

I don't see how this is any different than sales on eBay.  A third party is (was) providing an influence which is (was) driving sales behavior.  The answer to any "unfairness" related to this was for more dealers to begin selling on eBay.  Before too many people get carried away with kissing Shane's ring for being "responsive" keep in mind that forwarding a link and writing a short email doesn't take much effort:

- Dear Canadian Sales Manager:
- There is some concern and complaints about Canadian pricing in the FOG forum.  Please see this link to follow the conversation.
- http:[link]
- Best Regards,
- FOG Moderator

There was recently some "responsiveness" regarding sales and third party pricing influences on eBay, and requests for other dealers to enter the eBay channel.  Instead of other dealers entering that channel and competing on an even playing field, Festool banned eBay sales.  Not the responsiveness I wanted.

 

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4076
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2010, 08:51 PM »
 [dead horse]

Offline Charimon

  • Posts: 651
  • Tool and Tile Junkie
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2010, 09:05 PM »
While we're at it why don't we get Festool to change the USA pricing when the US dollar fluctuates in relation to German currency.  That makes about as much sense as adjusting Canadian prices to reflect fluctuations in the US dollar.  Maybe I just don't get it.  Hmmm.

David
The Canadians   [wink] routinely are "blackmarketing" their tools from the US because they are cheaper here.    They are cheaper here than in Germany.    If you really believe your straw man argument is valid, that would explain your conclusion.

Craig

EDIT:

Quote from: Daviddubya
I see my tounge-in-cheek suggestion was not received in the humorous way it was intended.  Pricing products in response to currency fluctuations is something that is simply not going to happen.  In just the past 4 months the exchange rate for Canadian to American went from .914 to .984, not in a straight line.  If you can cross the border, buy for less, and get back across without paying a import tariff, be happy.

Sorry David
I didn't recognize you were typing humorously (one of the pitfalls of a written forum)  please excuse my response, it was written under misguided understanding that you were serious.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 11:27 PM by Charimon »
"The existence of the flame thrower proves that at one time, somewhere, somebody said, " You Know, There's a group of people over there that I'd like to set on fire right now but they're too far away."

Offline harry_

  • Posts: 1166
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2010, 05:39 PM »
why am I thinking about prescription drugs right now?
Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).

Offline justinmcf

  • Posts: 712
  • Queensland Builder
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2010, 06:35 PM »


Before too many people get carried away with kissing Shane's ring for being "responsive" keep in mind that forwarding a link and writing a short email doesn't take much effort:

i personally think the only person getting carried away is you john.
i appreciate the fact that shane and christian spend as much time and effort on this forum.
try getting this same service from a company such as bosch, hilti or makita......

i do not appreciate your negative attitude.
if you cannot contribute to the forum in the spirit of helping others, why bother posting?

regards, justin.


Offline Bob Marino

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 2973
    • bobmarinosbesttools.com
Re: Canadian pricing
« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2010, 10:26 AM »


Before too many people get carried away with kissing Shane's ring for being "responsive" keep in mind that forwarding a link and writing a short email doesn't take much effort:

i personally think the only person getting carried away is you john.
i appreciate the fact that shane and christian spend as much time and effort on this forum.
try getting this same service from a company such as bosch, hilti or makita......

i do not appreciate your negative attitude.
if you cannot contribute to the forum in the spirit of helping others, why bother posting?

regards, justin.



  Well said, Justin.
 Shane doesn't need me too defend him, but I have known, (or rather known of) Shane since he used to be the IT man for a major Festool dealer and would, 9 times out of 10, "beat me to the punch" with upcoming Festool new/info/promos, etc; posting here on the FOG and on his company's site waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay after business hours. He later joined the Festool ranks. It was that company's loss and Festool's gain. I had a healthy respect for Shane as a "competitor" then and he has earned, through darn hard work and diligence the respect of the people that know and work with him as well as, I am guessing, the majority of FOG members.
 As regards Festool's treating employees, customers and dealers better than 99.99% of other companies,  I take  that type of number not as a literal pronouncement but more as it was (I think) meant - a vernacularization.  I have been dealing with, speaking with and and many times personally meeting with, a bunch of those employees and to say they "like" their job/company is to do them/Festool a disservice. What have been the postings and impressions of Festool (employees/CEO/ general atmosphere)  from those lucky (but growing) number of folks attending the Festool training seminars? Uniformly positive...and I don't think it was a case of Festool putting out the "white linens for when n company comes over" either.
 
 Bob
 
Festool  Dealer since 2002; user well before that!
            http://bobmarinosbesttools.com
                   Service As It Should Be