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Author Topic: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?  (Read 1923 times)

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Offline fsandy

  • Posts: 2
CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« on: October 19, 2017, 03:56 PM »
I purchased Festool Vac because I liked the 12 gauge cord to run my tool and a vac on the circuit.
When I purchased the tool I was promised you would carry parts for 10 years.
I broke the ground connector off my cord so I call for s new cord for my CT26. You guys sent me a 14 gauge cord instead of my OEM 12 gauge. When I called I was told its the only cord you supply now.
Now we have to supply our own replacement cord from Harbor Freight to bring our CT26 up to speed.
Why would you promise to supply parts for 10 years and not follow through. Why would you go cheaper?
Please let me know.

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Offline Festool USA

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Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2017, 05:09 PM »
Thanks for your question, @fsandy.

The change from 12 gauge to 14 gauge was made several years ago and was determined by the Festool product development team to result in minimal change in performance. Although the spare part guarantee ensures that you will be able to find replacement parts for 10 years, those parts may change in ways that will have minimal impact on — and in many cases improve — the performance of your tool.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3971
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2017, 08:12 PM »
...
 — and in many cases improve — the performance of your tool.

I am not sure this can be classed as "an improvement"?


?..
I broke the ground connector off my cord so I call for s new cord for my CT26.
...

The Australian "Work safe Australia" (WSA) is the OSHA type agency that has policy and legislation.
In Australia... the cords in a professional setting need to be "tested and tagged", which ensures that they are correct and safe.

Can a sparkie put a new plug in the end of the 12ga cable and met the local legal requirements?

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5261
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2017, 08:47 PM »
...
 — and in many cases improve — the performance of your tool.

I am not sure this can be classed as "an improvement"?


?..
I broke the ground connector off my cord so I call for s new cord for my CT26.
...

The Australian "Work safe Australia" (WSA) is the OSHA type agency that has policy and legislation.
In Australia... the cords in a professional setting need to be "tested and tagged", which ensures that they are correct and safe.

Can a sparkie put a new plug in the end of the 12ga cable and met the local legal requirements?

That's what happens when people complain about the dongle.

Yes

Tom

Offline jaguar36

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    • Toolamanjaro.com
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2017, 09:00 PM »
I bet the 14 gauge cord from Festool is better and has lower resistance than the 12 gauge cord from harbor freight.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3971
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 09:51 PM »
I bet the 14 gauge cord from Festool is better and has lower resistance than the 12 gauge cord from harbor freight.

Either your humour is subtle(?) - in which case I like it.
... or all copper is not equal.

Offline jaguar36

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    • Toolamanjaro.com
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2017, 10:07 PM »
Either your humour is subtle(?) - in which case I like it.
... or all copper is not equal.
Lets go with both [big grin]

Offline RobWoodCutter

  • Posts: 79
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 12:47 AM »
The amperage rating depends not only on the gauge but also the insulation type.

14ga TW = 20amp
14ga THWN = 20 amp
14ga PFAH= 59 amps

Tools are typically intermitted running allowing the conductor to cool down when not under load. If run continously, the conductor will heat up and not cool down. IF the insulations is designed to handle the higher temperature for longer periods of time you can run higher loads for longer periods withOut the insulation breaking down.

My PM209 planer has a 5hp motor and the factory cord is #10 SOJ.
My PM15 planer/molder has a 5 hp motor and the factory cord is a #12 SJT.

CT-22 has #12 SJTW. Would have to google the amp rating.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 149
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 08:16 AM »
Of course those higher conductor temperatures at higher amperage draws will produce larger voltage drops across the cord...

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1373
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 10:47 AM »
I'd just repair the old 12ga line with a new plug on the end. 

I replace all of mine with a pilot light plug so we can tell if a receptacle is hot or not on a new site.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2956
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 11:26 AM »
I'd just repair the old 12ga line with a new plug on the end. 

I replace all of mine with a pilot light plug so we can tell if a receptacle is hot or not on a new site.

You can get a pilot light plug?...as opposed to a socket?

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 541
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 07:50 PM »
I'd just repair the old 12ga line with a new plug on the end. 

I replace all of mine with a pilot light plug so we can tell if a receptacle is hot or not on a new site.

You can get a pilot light plug?...as opposed to a socket?
A quick google search turned up this: http://www.toolwale.com/havells-crabtree-thames-25-a-3-pin-plug-with-indicator
My guess is these exist for every type of plug and mains power level.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 07:54 PM by Gregor »

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1164
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 07:58 PM »
Haven't there been some tools that do not work properly when plugged into a CT vac?  Wonder if the cause could have anything to do with the smaller gauge cord?

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1373
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2017, 08:15 PM »
I'd just repair the old 12ga line with a new plug on the end. 

I replace all of mine with a pilot light plug so we can tell if a receptacle is hot or not on a new site.


You can get a pilot light plug?...as opposed to a socket?



Absolutely.

Here's what I use, but I think Hubbel has one too.  There is also yellow one with a much bigger indicator light and a right angle version.  I pay less than $20.

http://www.leviton.com/en/products/5266-PLC?pg=1459383412008

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3971
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2017, 11:08 PM »
I'd just repair the old 12ga line with a new plug on the end. 

I replace all of mine with a pilot light plug so we can tell if a receptacle is hot or not on a new site.


You can get a pilot light plug?...as opposed to a socket?



Absolutely.

Here's what I use, but I think Hubbel has one too.  There is also yellow one with a much bigger indicator light and a right angle version.  I pay less than $20.

http://www.leviton.com/en/products/5266-PLC?pg=1459383412008

Does it work with 12ga or only 14ga?

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1373
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2017, 08:34 AM »
It's suitable for a range of wire sizes Holmz.

It'll accept 18 thru 10ga wires.

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2017, 04:52 PM »
Well, it's been 2-1/2 years now, but I can finally break my silence on this. The reason why I have so many bloody vacs in my shop (total of 9 now) is because Festool-USA hired me as a consulting engineer to confirm or deny the claim that the vacs would perform the same with the smaller gauge cord.

I was not a fan of the change (which is why Festool-USA hired me), and it was my intention to disprove the engineering claim. After working all night on a report and having only a couple hours sleep, I was notified that I needed to attend the international conference call with both US and DE upper management/engineering.  [scared]

270451-0

I was given several models of identical vacuums, with one having the original 12ga cord, and one having the new 14ga cord. I did several tests on the vacs using various loads, while examining amperage draw, total voltage, and voltage drop across the whole vac/cord system.

I ran the test with vac-only, vac and small tool load, vac and OF2200 tool load.......and the coup de grace, was a fixed load bank designed to draw the full 20 amps from a 20-amp circuit. (Which technically exceeds the listed capacity of the vac.)

What I found is that there was virtually no difference between the two cords. I think the worse-case condition for real-life usage was 0.5 volts additional drop with the smaller cord. On the full-blown 20-amp unrealistic load, the difference in voltage drop was only 1.0 volts on a 120 volt circuit.

So contrary to what Festool-USA was expecting me to say that morning, I had to backpedal unexpectedly and say that I could find no problem with the proposed change.


Offline SRSemenza

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Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2017, 05:17 PM »
Silence nicely broken! 

Is the new cord more flexible  and coilable ?

Seth

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2017, 05:18 PM »
Yes. I have no complaints.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3971
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2017, 06:36 PM »
2-1/2 years in the making, and then having to work all night at the end sounds a bit like my planning routine.

Did you use only real loads, or some resistive loads?
Did the measurements deviate at all from theoretical analysis?

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2017, 06:46 PM »
2-1/2 years in the making, and then having to work all night at the end sounds a bit like my planning routine.

No. It was my silence that has been 2-1/2 years. The reason for the all-nighter is because it was only the night before that I was notified of the high-brow conference call at 7-am the next morning, and I needed to prepare my results before then.

Did you use only real loads, or some resistive loads?
Did the measurements deviate at all from theoretical analysis?

I used both inductive loads and resistive. It was the maximum-fixed load bank at a full 20 amps that was only resistive.

However, resistive or inductive makes no difference because they were observing the conditions of the cord, which is purely resistive itself.

No, the measurements didn't deviate from theoretical, but I actually did not bother going through the  calculations for my report because by then, it was already known to be a non-issue.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 06:49 PM by Rick Christopherson »

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3971
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2017, 07:46 PM »
...
No, the measurements didn't deviate from theoretical, but I actually did not bother going through the  calculations for my report because by then, it was already known to be a non-issue.

Maybe it was already a non issue from theory?
I have not measured the length or cord and the drop - but would suspect that theory held.

And then most houses have yards of Romex in the walls of varying thickness.
But then a lot of people mandate a heavy cord for the last 20' when there was a 100 feet before the end that was already a bit slender.

But it is still a comfort to have a large extension cord... And we see posts about using only 10 gauge extension cords littered in other threads... So I think that there could be general confusion.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2956
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2017, 09:13 PM »
...
No, the measurements didn't deviate from theoretical, but I actually did not bother going through the  calculations for my report because by then, it was already known to be a non-issue.

Maybe it was already a non issue from theory?
I have not measured the length or cord and the drop - but would suspect that theory held.

And then most houses have yards of Romex in the walls of varying thickness.
But then a lot of people mandate a heavy cord for the last 20' when there was a 100 feet before the end that was already a bit slender.

But it is still a comfort to have a large extension cord... And we see posts about using only 10 gauge extension cords littered in other threads... So I think that there could be general confusion.

That comes from people trying to think of ways to prevent the Kapex from going up in smoke.
Crossing your fingers would be just as effective but might make it difficult to get any work done.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3546
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2017, 03:32 AM »
...
No, the measurements didn't deviate from theoretical, but I actually did not bother going through the  calculations for my report because by then, it was already known to be a non-issue.

Maybe it was already a non issue from theory?
I have not measured the length or cord and the drop - but would suspect that theory held.

And then most houses have yards of Romex in the walls of varying thickness.
But then a lot of people mandate a heavy cord for the last 20' when there was a 100 feet before the end that was already a bit slender.

But it is still a comfort to have a large extension cord... And we see posts about using only 10 gauge extension cords littered in other threads... So I think that there could be general confusion.

That comes from people trying to think of ways to prevent the Kapex from going up in smoke.
Crossing your fingers would be just as effective but might make it difficult to get any work done.


 [big grin]
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3971
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2017, 05:54 AM »
...
No, the measurements didn't deviate from theoretical, but I actually did not bother going through the  calculations for my report because by then, it was already known to be a non-issue.

Maybe it was already a non issue from theory?
I have not measured the length or cord and the drop - but would suspect that theory held.

And then most houses have yards of Romex in the walls of varying thickness.
But then a lot of people mandate a heavy cord for the last 20' when there was a 100 feet before the end that was already a bit slender.

But it is still a comfort to have a large extension cord... And we see posts about using only 10 gauge extension cords littered in other threads... So I think that there could be general confusion.

That comes from people trying to think of ways to prevent the Kapex from going up in smoke.
Crossing your fingers would be just as effective but might make it difficult to get any work done.

There has been so much noise around the Kapex I am not sure I can keep up.
But I thought that the word from FT-HQ was that stout cords, with lower number gauge, only be used for extension cords to a Kapex?? Or was that from users...??

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2017, 09:26 AM »
In relation to the power cord ..... fine. Otherwise this thread does not need to become another generalized Kapex issues topic.


Seth

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1373
Re: CT26E 12 gauge to 14 gauge cord why?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2017, 07:30 PM »
So what are we to make of the conventional wisdom?   And the extension cord charts that show up in tool owners manuals including festool's that say to use progressively larger gauge wire for longer runs ? 

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