Author Topic: Festool Belt sanders  (Read 20981 times)

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Offline IG_Woods

  • Posts: 11
Festool Belt sanders
« on: October 27, 2011, 03:11 PM »
Hello,

I played with Festool Belt sanders in London, UK. I love them. Especially I loved sanding frames. Is there any particular reason  why Festool doesn't sell them in the USA? UL approval is not the case.  Does it mean that Festool will abandon its belt sander line or there are replacement models will come? When can we expect arrival of these sanders?

Thank you

Offline Shane Holland

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
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  • Posts: 7275
    • Festool USA
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 03:15 PM »
Currently, there are no plans to offer our belt sanders in the US market. I don't have any knowledge regarding any planned obsolescence or new models of the belt sanders. Beyond that, I don't have anything else to share on the topic.

If you're looking for fast material removal, have a look at our Rotex and RAS sanders.

Thanks,
Shane
Shane Holland | Festool USA | Sales: 888-337-8600 | Service: 800-554-8741 | sho@festoolusa.com



Power Tools, Domino Joiners, RRP HEPA Vacs, Track SawsDrywall Sanders, Cordless Drills, Tools for Painters, Jigsaws, Router Tables

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 3895
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 03:48 PM »
I don't see the need for a belt sander anymore. Since the Rotex or RAS, the Bosch and Feins have come out I have not had a situation where I needed to pull out a belt sander. These other sanders have taken over the job for the belt sander for me. I have used my Porter cable mini belt sander, that has come in handy a few times. My belt sanders just sit looking pretty.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 3498
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 05:38 PM »
I played with Festool Belt sanders in London, UK. I love them. Especially I loved sanding frames. Is there any particular reason  why Festool doesn't sell them in the USA? UL approval is not the case.  Does it mean that Festool will abandon its belt sander line or there are replacement models will come? When can we expect arrival of these sanders?

I think one reason they aren't offered in the USA is that because there's no 120v version of them, not even in the UK. Festool sells most of their tools in the UK in both a 240 and a 120 volt version, but not with the belt sanders, so I suspect that there's either a problem with putting a 120v motor in or Festool expects too low a volume of sales to justify the costs of redesigning them.

As for this type of belt sander being replaced, don't count on it. The current designs of the BS75 and BS105 are already 25 or 30 years old, they stem from a company called Holz-her which Festool bought a long time ago. Only change Festool made at that time was to put a stronger motor in. But over all these years these belt sanders proved they were still in the game and didn't need to be replaced. 
   

Offline justinmcf

  • Posts: 712
  • Queensland Builder
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 05:49 PM »
The high price might have something to do with it also.
In Australia, I can buy a Makita 100mm belt sander for approx $400.
The Festool 100mm belt sander costs $1500.


Offline fuzzy logic

  • Posts: 213
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2011, 10:45 PM »
Hi Dovetail 65.  Just curious - want to learn something.
When do you find your little belt sander useful?
In fact, I'd like to know when people find belt sanders useful generally.
An example of my thinking is, that a mate reckons can't beat belt sanders for zipping quickly up (painted) architraves, when prepping around doors for example.
What brought the conversation about was, that when I sand such things, paint chips can fly off the edges - meaning more work to smooth edges down , if you get my drift.  He swears by a belt sander, but never seen his work!!  Fully appreciate issues regarding abrasive grit size.  I guess this partly wanting to be able to 'crack on.'
Thanks very much.
Richard
Decent people do the right thing - always?

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2011, 10:55 PM »
Richard,

I haven't used a belt sander in quite some time.  That Porter Cable model that "Dovetail" was referring to I went through a number of them.  Cheap, poorly designed crap is the nicest way to put it.  Plenty of belt sanders out there that are great.  The size of the PC is excellent for scribing things (when it works).  The larger belt sanders I used mostly for stripping old finishes including paint that you mentioned.  Also removing a lot of wood quickly, making doors fit openings better, hogging out a lot of wood to fit around something and once in a great while I used it very carefully to fine tune stuff.

Fortunately tools have advanced and we have better solutions in stuff like what Festool offers, for instance the RAS 115 and the Rotex sanders.  Vacuum pickup compared to dust bag collection on belt sanders is night and day.  Plus, not having to deal with belt tracking issues on most belt sanders removes a great deal of hassle.

 [2cents]

Offline Roger Savatteri

  • Posts: 502
    • www.savatteridesigns.com
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2011, 11:32 PM »
Hi Dovetail 65.  Just curious - want to learn something.
When do you find your little belt sander useful?
In fact, I'd like to know when people find belt sanders useful generally.
An example of my thinking is, that a mate reckons can't beat belt sanders for zipping quickly up (painted) architraves, when prepping around doors for example.
What brought the conversation about was, that when I sand such things, paint chips can fly off the edges - meaning more work to smooth edges down , if you get my drift.  He swears by a belt sander, but never seen his work!!  Fully appreciate issues regarding abrasive grit size.  I guess this partly wanting to be able to 'crack on.'
Thanks very much.
Richard

I have the same little Porter Cable "the rat" (it looks like one) that Dovetail has,
some uses for it,
- scribing a trim piece to a wall after cutting it with a jigsaw and needing to fine tune the scribe line.
- sanding a fiberglass edge to a part taken from a mold. (any rotary motion would tear it up, due to the thinness of the material & the LS-130 is not aggressive enough with a finer grit)
- cleaning up a steel edge profile after it's been cut.
- taking down the edge of a "hardy panel" again where the rotary motion would not be beneficial.
- when installing stamp copper or tin ceiling panels I've used it on site to radius a corner.
- with a fine grit I've used it to give a brush look to aluminum trim with a different effect then with the LS-130. (keep in mind one needs to feather it gently)

Los Angeles, California

Offline fuzzy logic

  • Posts: 213
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2011, 01:02 AM »
Thanks Ken, and, Roger.  Your responses helpful. 
P'raps I should have opened a new thread?
Decent people do the right thing - always?

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2011, 01:08 AM »
Thanks Ken, and, Roger.  Your responses helpful.  
P'raps I should have opened a new thread?

No problem talking about it in this thread.  I'm sure the moderators would have done that if they thought it was necessary.  Glad to be of some help to you, Richard.

Offline Nick C

  • Posts: 142
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2012, 11:23 PM »
I use a big belt sander on pressure-treated decking. I use a small belt sander to sharpen lawn mower blades. A bit crude for Festool.

Offline woodwreck

  • Posts: 163
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 12:29 PM »
Thanks Ken, and, Roger.  Your responses helpful. 
P'raps I should have opened a new thread?

No, not al all, IMHO, it made me think about it... similar to most of the others, the P-C mini belt sander was great - before I discovered and bought my multiple Green & Olive sanders, and I occasionally use it to touch up face frames, but this just reminded me to change.

As to the other P-C big sander (4" x 24" I think), its massive weight was always a problem regardless of any results. I tried to donate it, in a steel P-C carrying case, to the local high school wood shop and to Habitat, and both declined.
Regards,

Woodwreck

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2185
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 01:45 PM »
I played with Festool Belt sanders in London, UK. I love them. Especially I loved sanding frames. Is there any particular reason  why Festool doesn't sell them in the USA? UL approval is not the case.  Does it mean that Festool will abandon its belt sander line or there are replacement models will come? When can we expect arrival of these sanders?

I think one reason they aren't offered in the USA is that because there's no 120v version of them, not even in the UK. Festool sells most of their tools in the UK in both a 240 and a 120 volt version, but not with the belt sanders, so I suspect that there's either a problem with putting a 120v motor in or Festool expects too low a volume of sales to justify the costs of redesigning them.

As for this type of belt sander being replaced, don't count on it. The current designs of the BS75 and BS105 are already 25 or 30 years old, they stem from a company called Holz-her which Festool bought a long time ago. Only change Festool made at that time was to put a stronger motor in. But over all these years these belt sanders proved they were still in the game and didn't need to be replaced.  
  

It is a great design and with the sanding frame it's a great tool, especially for flattening broad surfaces without the risk of over cutting soft spots or making shallow depressions.

Holz-her made versions of the sanders for several other companies and Festool seems to have continued. The (pre-Festool) AEG version was available with a 120 volt motor in North America. I've owned one for over 25 years. When I first heard of Festool and learned that they had bought the Holz-her factory it helped motivate me to buy Festools thinking that I'd be able to replace my aging AEG with a new version.

I was very disappointed to learn wouldn't so I began scouring ebay for AEG belt sanders and I managed to buy 2 more, one never used (but I still just have the one sanding frame).

The well designed belt sander with sanding frame is really a very valuable tool. Until recently we could also get sanding frames for Bosh machines. Now the only option in NA is the Dewalt belt sander and it uses a solid platen frame instead of the better stiff brush platen.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 01:58 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline stairman

  • Posts: 143
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2012, 11:33 PM »
I've been dying to get my hands on a BS105E Set.
I use the daylights out of belt sanders
flattening panels,  doors...  actually, before I got my first widebelt sander (43" double head SCMI Sandya) I used belt sanders exclusively for flattening doors, panels, stair treads and any pretty much any glue-ups...

I still rely heavily on my 4x24 PC's and a 4x24 Ma-skee-ta, for fairing our radius work and really large assemblies (anything over 37" width, as I now have a smaller 37" Timesaver single head WB sander)

I can't think of any shop I've ever been around where there wasn't a proficient belt sander pilot.

Festool should really rethink their Introduction of the Belt Sander line.
at normal US market conversion rates, the price would be well within the affordability of MANY Festoolians,  not to mention the new business it would attract.

I can name 6 different tradesmen I know who would buy a Festool BS Set immediately upon seeing it's capabilities, features and quality,  and every one of us knows what happens after you buy your first Festool, don't we  ;D

By the way, I have owned and tried several small and "baby" size belt sanders,  and I haven't picked up another since I discovered scribing with an angle grinder.  -now that I own  "THE Termite" (RAS 115)  it's a certainty I will never consider using another,  but like everything, there are personal preferences,  and I'm sure those of you who use them have your reasons. 

as for the power issues (US  -vs-  non US electrical requirements)  <200 USD will bag a     totally capable and safe transformer, and       with this, you're able to use just about anything you'd ever want to plug into a wall outlet.



Kapex on a UG, TS75, OF1400 (x2) OF2000,,HL850,  Domino, RO90, RO125,  LS130, RAS115, MFT3, C12 Set, CXS Set, LR32 Set,  arsenal growing as fast as I can afford it!

Looking to buy: RO150EQ+ ; LR32 guide rails, 3000mm guide rail, parallel guide set   ;  another TS55 to replace the 1 I sold...   OF1010 and additional Festool Routers ;  RS2  ;    and a FESTOOL BS105 BELT SANDER SET
OK, let's face it, I'm always looking for any Festools / accessories.

Offline Kevin Stricker

  • Posts: 477
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2012, 12:10 AM »
The PC Armadillo (little rat) belt sander fits a specific need for me as I install many Craftsman style window and door units. I pre-assemble them to get perfect joints and often have to knock down drywall seams that are proud of the door frame.  Bending the trim to fit is not an option with a 6 quarter header.  Where I used to use a scraper and hammer or multimaster(both of which are super messy), I can use the Armadillo where no other belt sander can go.  The RAS and RO 125 are both too big and any orbital sander sometimes gets squirrelly and can wreck adjacent surfaces.  I also use it to quickly flush mitered returns.n The Armadillo can get right up against an edge and has almost perfect dust collection (better than the RAS and Rotex).  It also does a great job scribing filler strips and jamb extensions.  Even with 6 Festool sanders my Armadillo gets used on every trim or cabinet job.  Belt sanders fit a specific need and no orbital or RO sander can match their functionality with specific jobs.

Offline VictorL

  • Posts: 557
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2012, 07:19 AM »
I heard that Festool USA made a survey back in 2000 - 2004. Some woodworkers responded that "they will NEVER buy Festool's belt sander", "belt sander CANNOT be used in fine woodworking" and etc. It looks like belt sander's idea was banned in the USA. But it was long before FOG and booming USA sales. I'm still waiting when BS-75 and/or BS-105 will come here. I suspect that they are UL approved already.  ;)
 

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2185
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2012, 09:20 AM »
I've been using an AEG HBSE 75S belt sander with sanding frame for over 25 years.
I've long thought no other portable tool comes close to flattening large surfaces.
If you've never used a belt sander with well adjusted sanding frame you don't know what you're missing.



I have to re-finish a large bench similar to this one except it's over eight feet long and double ended.
It is also made of pine like the one in the picture.

The first stage of refinishing this piece is to disassemble and run the parts through a wide belt sander at 100 grit.
This removes the old finish, scratches, and gouges. After raising the grain compressed by the big belt I need to start at 80 grit with portable sanders.

When my nine year old ES 125 died ($110 to replace 3 bearings) I decide to upgrade to a 6" MIRKA Ceros.
I thought from all the good I'd heard about the Ceros I might be able to skip the very noisy belt sander.

Not gonna work. First, 80 grit Abranet is much slower than the belt sander. Second, the relatively soft surface of the abrasive using the pad protector overcut the early growth and undercut the late growth resulting in an undulating surface. Some people may like that for some projects but it isn't appropriate here.

I had to go back and re-sand the panel with the belt sander to get it flat again. Nothing else will do.
(Rotex is faster than Ceros and there is less undulation but it still lacks the control of flattening the sanding frame provides.)

Why am I writing? Because my belt sander is very old. The brushes need replacing again and don't seem
to be available anymore but the commutator is scored too so even if I find new brushes they'll go fast.

"So?"

Well, Festool bought the factory that made my belt sander and now makes virtually identical sanders with the Festool badge. A large part of why I committed to Festool nine years ago is that fact. I thought I'd be able to replace my AEG sander with a Festool sander by now but I can't even get the brushes because Festool won't sell them here.

I'd gladly give Festool hundreds of dollars for a 220 volt sander if they'd let me.
 
Since this is under the Ask Festool section I'll ask this, can I at least get some replacement brushes?

Offline Michael_Swe

  • Posts: 352
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2012, 12:37 PM »
I have the Festool with the sanding frame. When I need it there is no alternative for me. There is no way I can get as flat a surface with the Rotex as with the belt sander. I recently built a couple of sliding doors which I dressed with 6mm MDF. I screwed the MDF to the frame and filled the screw heads with "spackel" (I don't know the English word, so I used Swedish =). After sanding the large surface with the belt sander it was dead flat. I sent the doors for owen laquere. Any dent  would have shown for sure.

I'm sure there are people out there who can produce a dead flat surface with the Rotex, but that's not me..


Offline Reiska

  • Posts: 1062
  • Hackers build things, Crackers break them.
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2012, 05:11 PM »
That would be filler I think.
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline PaulMarcel

  • Posts: 1448
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Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2012, 06:13 PM »
Like Michael, I'd take a 220V version of the belt sander; been wanting one for awhile.  I need to plan a vacation where I can get one and pack lightly cuz it's huge :)
Visit my blog for Festool adventures
(okay! now the link works!)
Shirt size: L [cool]
Twitter: @HalfInchShy

Offline Michael_Swe

  • Posts: 352
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2012, 07:30 PM »
Michael, would you like me to try to get some brushes and send to you?

Edit: Now I see that the brushes where not your only problem. Missed that while reading the text on the phone..
//Michael
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 04:21 AM by sgryd »

Offline lambeater

  • Posts: 414
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2012, 08:37 PM »
I've been using an AEG HBSE 75S belt sander with sanding frame for over 25 years.
I've long thought no other portable tool comes close to flattening large surfaces.
If you've never used a belt sander with well adjusted sanding frame you don't know what you're missing.



I have to re-finish a large bench similar to this one except it's over eight feet long and double ended.
It is also made of pine like the one in the picture.

The first stage of refinishing this piece is to disassemble and run the parts through a wide belt sander at 100 grit.
This removes the old finish, scratches, and gouges. After raising the grain compressed by the big belt I need to start at 80 grit with portable sanders.

When my nine year old ES 125 died ($110 to replace 3 bearings) I decide to upgrade to a 6" MIRKA Ceros.
I thought from all the good I'd heard about the Ceros I might be able to skip the very noisy belt sander.

Not gonna work. First, 80 grit Abranet is much slower than the belt sander. Second, the relatively soft surface of the abrasive using the pad protector overcut the early growth and undercut the late growth resulting in an undulating surface. Some people may like that for some projects but it isn't appropriate here.

I had to go back and re-sand the panel with the belt sander to get it flat again. Nothing else will do.
(Rotex is faster than Ceros and there is less undulation but it still lacks the control of flattening the sanding frame provides.)

Why am I writing? Because my belt sander is very old. The brushes need replacing again and don't seem
to be available anymore but the commutator is scored too so even if I find new brushes they'll go fast.

"So?"

Well, Festool bought the factory that made my belt sander and now makes virtually identical sanders with the Festool badge. A large part of why I committed to Festool nine years ago is that fact. I thought I'd be able to replace my AEG sander with a Festool sander by now but I can't even get the brushes because Festool won't sell them here.

I'd gladly give Festool hundreds of dollars for a 220 volt sander if they'd let me.
 
Since this is under the Ask Festool section I'll ask this, can I at least get some replacement brushes?



Micheal those sanders are awesome. Mine was the 100mm variable speed model and if I remember correctly it was blue. I left mine at my dads house when I moved to Canada 13yrs ago along with my AEG 8 1/2 inch skill saw and my metabo drill all 220v. I bet they are still sitting on the shelf. Any kiwi's in NZ want some cheap good quality tools?

thx
Lambeater

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2185
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2012, 10:54 AM »
Michael, would you like me to try to get some brushes and send to you?

Edit: Now I see that the brushes where not your only problem. Missed that while reading the text on the phone..
//Michael


Thanks Sgryd!

I think I found some brushes here. At first glance the brushes they say are for the sander (middle of the page) are not available (no add to cart button). But the brushes just above match the form of my brushes and the dimensions are appropriate too so in about a week I should know and will update here.

An interesting observation for others with worn brushes is that merely removing the brushes for inspection has improved the performance. While lately the sander often won't start after shut down that hasn't happened since checking the brushes. Maybe some debris that preventing the brush from advancing fell away.

Also, the web site above has commutator stones intended to smooth worn commutators. I'll check that out too.


I actually have a new (old stock) AEG HBSE 75S in reserve but the sanding frame would have to be transferred and after decades of use it is perfectly tuned to the old sander so I'd much prefer to keep the old one going.

Festool (Holz-her) belt sanders have a superior design sanding frame. The adjustments one to make the sanding platen perfectly parallel to the work surface. The platen design is the best too, actually flat after the break-in period.

I bought a 4" wide Bosch belt sander some years ago for the extra capacity but the platen isn't flat and the primitive adjustments don't permit making it truly parallel to the work so it ends up having only about 40% as much actual sanding surface as the smaller AEG.

I'm hoping to get a 100 mm Festool sander and frame eventually.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2185
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2012, 10:59 AM »


These look promising too although the length is a little shorter. Possibly the difference between "auto-stop" and not?

I wonder how these dimensions compare to the Festool 75? Are the brushes for the 100 mm version larger?

Offline fritter63

  • Posts: 1141
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2012, 12:12 PM »
?
In fact, I'd like to know when people find belt sanders useful generally.


Well, in fine woodworking, if you want to ruin your project quickly, a belt sander is your best bet.....

Offline scholar

  • Posts: 22
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2012, 12:40 PM »
?
In fact, I'd like to know when people find belt sanders useful generally.


Well, in fine woodworking, if you want to ruin your project quickly, a belt sander is your best bet.....

Too bad the Festool belt sanders are not available over there.

Of all my Festool stuff (lots of it!), the belt sander BS 105 (with frame) is really the most satisfying machine to use - it is built like a panzer tank with power to match - the adjustability of the height is really fine and working through the grits you can get a really excellent and flat finish; dust extraction is superb too.  I have other sanders, including a Rotex and that does not compare for sanding a larger area.

I have a mini gloat every time I use it (particularly having bought it v cheap second hand...sorry!)

Cheers


PS  Am I right in thinking that European 230 volt stuff is not compatible with US 220 volt - 60 Hz vs 50 Hz (never can remember which way round)?


Offline VictorL

  • Posts: 557
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2012, 12:49 PM »
Why not to make new survey? Who wants to buy Y sander for $XXX.  
Belt sander with frame is completely different beast. There is definitely some interest in the US for Festool belt sanders. RAS 115 was very unpopular few years ago, but after FOG discussions and and few articles  it became very hot.
VictorL

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2185
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2012, 02:42 PM »
?
In fact, I'd like to know when people find belt sanders useful generally.


Well, in fine woodworking, if you want to ruin your project quickly, a belt sander is your best bet.....

This the experience of most WW's who have never used a belt sander with sanding frame.
It is very difficult to wield a bare belt sander and not cause inadvertent damage.

But, add a sanding frame and it's a very different tool. It really should have a new name.
It's equivalent to adding a base to a drill motor and gaining a router.

To stably suspend a high speed abrasive just over the surface of the work so that it only contacts the high spots and easily maneuver it all around the work with complete control, with dust collection, is an entirely different (and superior) way to sand.

Offline pierreblonde

  • Posts: 95
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2012, 03:04 PM »
Personally i wouldn't be without a belt sander,
i have a RO150 , I like it but i don't think its any good for sanding edges like the top of strings or edges of doors
A belt sander you can sand with grain you can not with any rotary sander
Really a rotary goes against the grain (sorry for the pun) of everything i was taught ,
for every time you sand across the grain it takes 10 with the grain to get the marks out
my sander is a Makita 9924DB its really light and a great sander
I love festool but i would not pay there price for a  rebadged Matabo  [sad]
Kapex, UG-KA-Set, TS 55 ,CTL 22, PS 300, T 15+3, OF 1400, OF 2200 SET, DOMINO DF500, MFT/3,  CMS BASIC ,CMS-OF
HL 850, RO 150, Sortainer clamps ,toys toys toys

Offline fritter63

  • Posts: 1141
Re: Festool Belt sanders
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2012, 06:00 PM »
?
In fact, I'd like to know when people find belt sanders useful generally.


Well, in fine woodworking, if you want to ruin your project quickly, a belt sander is your best bet.....

This the experience of most WW's who have never used a belt sander with sanding frame.
It is very difficult to wield a bare belt sander and not cause inadvertent damage.

But, add a sanding frame and it's a very different tool. It really should have a new name.
It's equivalent to adding a base to a drill motor and gaining a router.

To stably suspend a high speed abrasive just over the surface of the work so that it only contacts the high spots and easily maneuver it all around the work with complete control, with dust collection, is an entirely different (and superior) way to sand.

I'll have to look into this "sanding frame" you speak of.... I have never heard of it.