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Author Topic: Festool Recon Kapex purchase  (Read 5390 times)

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Offline Johnhend

  • Posts: 5
Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« on: November 14, 2017, 11:35 AM »
I purchased the Kapex 120 about 2 weeks ago from the Festool Recon site for about $1120. First I received the saw without the bevel which has been shipped (thank you) but then the exact same saw was listed a week later on the same site for $958!!  When asked for a credit for the difference I was told no.  This does not seem like a good way to make happy customers.

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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 268
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 11:49 AM »
Did they say why?

Perhaps the two saws are not identical in terms of condition or age, etc.?

If the two saws were reconditioned with different costs involved, they might be resold at different prices, too.

Offline Aclaw

  • Posts: 64
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 12:10 PM »
I purchased the Kapex 120 about 2 weeks ago from the Festool Recon site for about $1120. First I received the saw without the bevel which has been shipped (thank you) but then the exact same saw was listed a week later on the same site for $958!!  When asked for a credit for the difference I was told no.  This does not seem like a good way to make happy customers.

Why would you get a price adjustment on a used tool?  Its not an apples to apples swap.  If you buy a used car this week and then find the same make and model used car the following week, you're not going back to the dealership for a price adjustment.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 12:14 PM by Aclaw »

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1443
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 12:11 PM »
The 2nd offering of Kapex was at a steeper discount than the first - which didn't sell as well as the other tools in the sale.  Festool didn't comment on the bigger discount, and I doubt they will.  It's still the only tool that has gone beyond the 25% discount.  Draw your own conclusions.

I don't think the main intent of Festool on this was customer satisfaction.  It was simply to liquidate their not new tool inventory.  They work very hard to maintain a high price structure and discounting is not part of the plan.

In past sales , they had staggered discount levels and the larger the discount the less new the tools were.  I can't say if that is happening here though.

If you haven't read the Recon discussion, you may want to check it out.............................

If you're brave.................and have a lot of time.



http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/festoolrecon-com-coming-soon-%28us%29/

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 479
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 09:29 PM »
I purchased the Kapex 120 about 2 weeks ago from the Festool Recon site for about $1120. First I received the saw without the bevel which has been shipped (thank you) but then the exact same saw was listed a week later on the same site for $958!!  When asked for a credit for the difference I was told no.  This does not seem like a good way to make happy customers.

Amazon Warehouse Deals does this all the time.  They will have multiple listings for the same returned items, with prices based on actual condition, with variables such as damaged original packaging, % of cosmetic problems, and overall condition. 

I buy these Amazon discounted items all the time and have never had a problem with the functionality of the item in question. 

Years ago, while renovating a 100 year old apartment building, we would set the rent for the apartments based on how much money we had invested in the renovation itself.  If the hard wood floors had been refinished, the rent went up. 

There is nothing unusual about this approach.

If you buy retail/new, then a few days later the store has a sale for the same item, it is much more acceptable to return the item and repurchase at the now discounted price.   
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Cordless Orbital Sander RTSC 400 | Next  Purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1443
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 09:35 PM »
What if you buy a tool that goes up in value. ?

Are you going to send Festool a check for for that 10 year old Domino that you bought for $750 and sold on eBay for $850 last month ?

Offline Johnhend

  • Posts: 5
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 03:58 AM »
What if you buy a tool that goes up in value. ?

Are you going to send Festool a check for for that 10 year old Domino that you bought for $750 and sold on eBay for $850 last month ?

Never had a used tool go up in value but even if it did, I'm not a retail tool manufacturer so this example is kind of stupid.

I purchased the Kapex 120 about 2 weeks ago from the Festool Recon site for about $1120. First I received the saw without the bevel which has been shipped (thank you) but then the exact same saw was listed a week later on the same site for $958!!  When asked for a credit for the difference I was told no.  This does not seem like a good way to make happy customers.

Why would you get a price adjustment on a used tool?  Its not an apples to apples swap.  If you buy a used car this week and then find the same make and model used car the following week, you're not going back to the dealership for a price adjustment.

Not sure how two exact same model Kapex saws are not apples to apples.  If the used car was the exact same condition and mileage and selling for 15 percent less than what I just paid you better believe I'd be ticked. 

So I don't think my post was received very well by some folks here who honestly come across like Festool fanboys or shareholders. A reconditioned tool sold by the manufacturer is not the same as Joe Homeowner selling used tools on eBay or a used car lot. If I walked into a retail store and bought a factory reconditioned tool and a week later they had it for sale for less than I paid, most reputable stores will offer up the difference as a measure of good will to the customer. Festool is supposed to have outstanding customer service so I assumed that they would at least be on par with a Home Depot or Walmart but now they have a customer who was quickly dismissed and not shown any good will who had previously happily handed over several thousand hard earned dollars for their tools and will probably not purchase any more just because of the bad taste they left trying to offload their returned merchandise.  So lessons learned, I also won't dare to look for consolement from an Internet forum of fanboys.

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 479
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2017, 05:39 AM »
Wow.

It's still early, you probably just haven't had your coffee yet.



GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Cordless Orbital Sander RTSC 400 | Next  Purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 836
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 06:49 AM »
What if you buy a tool that goes up in value. ?

Are you going to send Festool a check for for that 10 year old Domino that you bought for $750 and sold on eBay for $850 last month ?

Never had a used tool go up in value but even if it did, I'm not a retail tool manufacturer so this example is kind of stupid.

I purchased the Kapex 120 about 2 weeks ago from the Festool Recon site for about $1120. First I received the saw without the bevel which has been shipped (thank you) but then the exact same saw was listed a week later on the same site for $958!!  When asked for a credit for the difference I was told no.  This does not seem like a good way to make happy customers.

Why would you get a price adjustment on a used tool?  Its not an apples to apples swap.  If you buy a used car this week and then find the same make and model used car the following week, you're not going back to the dealership for a price adjustment.

Not sure how two exact same model Kapex saws are not apples to apples.  If the used car was the exact same condition and mileage and selling for 15 percent less than what I just paid you better believe I'd be ticked. 

So I don't think my post was received very well by some folks here who honestly come across like Festool fanboys or shareholders. A reconditioned tool sold by the manufacturer is not the same as Joe Homeowner selling used tools on eBay or a used car lot. If I walked into a retail store and bought a factory reconditioned tool and a week later they had it for sale for less than I paid, most reputable stores will offer up the difference as a measure of good will to the customer. Festool is supposed to have outstanding customer service so I assumed that they would at least be on par with a Home Depot or Walmart but now they have a customer who was quickly dismissed and not shown any good will who had previously happily handed over several thousand hard earned dollars for their tools and will probably not purchase any more just because of the bad taste they left trying to offload their returned merchandise.  So lessons learned, I also won't dare to look for consolement from an Internet forum of fanboys.


Sorry for your frustration, have you reached out to @TylerC yet?  Not sure that he can do much but it worth a try. I see your point,  but we also don't know if the discount was for different levels of recondition.  Please reach out to Tyler.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 09:08 AM »

So I don't think my post was received very well by some folks here who honestly come across like Festool fanboys or shareholders. A reconditioned tool sold by the manufacturer is not the same as Joe Homeowner selling used tools on eBay or a used car lot. If I walked into a retail store and bought a factory reconditioned tool and a week later they had it for sale for less than I paid, most reputable stores will offer up the difference as a measure of good will to the customer. Festool is supposed to have outstanding customer service so I assumed that they would at least be on par with a Home Depot or Walmart but now they have a customer who was quickly dismissed and not shown any good will who had previously happily handed over several thousand hard earned dollars for their tools and will probably not purchase any more just because of the bad taste they left trying to offload their returned merchandise.  So lessons learned, I also won't dare to look for consolement from an Internet forum of fanboys.


      If you are looking for  consolation  , then you have mine. I have been in your position myself. Purchasing something and then having it go on sale or the price be reduced a very short period of time later. Very frustrating but that is the way it goes sometimes. Some places will give you the new lower price and some won't.

     I would like to point out that some of the most critical replies in this topic as to whether or not you should get  the new price are from members that could not be considered   fanboys  by any stretch.

Seth

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1443
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 11:08 AM »
Quote
Not sure how two exact same model Kapex saws are not apples to apples.  If the used car was the exact same condition and mileage and selling for 15 percent less than what I just paid you better believe I'd be ticked.

Here's the rub:  those cars won't be exactly the same.  Mileage will be different and likely the color and , for sure the options will be a bit different.  Perhaps the more expensive one will have phantasmic glow paint which was more popular than navy.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be put out.  I'd be ticked too.  But...............

Festool is not a retailer.   The condition of the two saws wasn't disclosed.  The 2nd round may have been really rough like sander ScoFF received.  - or - Not

FT should probably make a statement here.

I've already said I think the purpose of this sale isn't to promote goodwill or customer approval.  That may be a byproduct.  For some.  It's to clear the warehouse of old and unclaimed stock.   If you carefully read the terms of sale , you can see that what you receive can vary greatly, and they're non specific about it.  On purpose.  Someone has to get the old beat up sander that was returned on day 29. 

Just like musical chairs.  Great fun until you sit in a chair with gum on it ; or you're the one left standing.  You don't have to be happy about it, but you were told the rules beforehand.  You may also want to read the numerous Kapex threads around here if you haven't already.  I can't imagine how you'll feel if yours suddenly quits working in a couple of years. 
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 11:11 AM by antss »

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 495
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2017, 01:11 PM »
Quote
Not sure how two exact same model Kapex saws are not apples to apples.  If the used car was the exact same condition and mileage and selling for 15 percent less than what I just paid you better believe I'd be ticked.

Here's the rub:  those cars won't be exactly the same.  Mileage will be different and likely the color and , for sure the options will be a bit different.  Perhaps the more expensive one will have phantasmic glow paint which was more popular than navy.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be put out.  I'd be ticked too.  But...............

Festool is not a retailer.   The condition of the two saws wasn't disclosed.  The 2nd round may have been really rough like sander ScoFF received.  - or - Not

FT should probably make a statement here.

I've already said I think the purpose of this sale isn't to promote goodwill or customer approval.  That may be a byproduct.  For some.  It's to clear the warehouse of old and unclaimed stock.   If you carefully read the terms of sale , you can see that what you receive can vary greatly, and they're non specific about it.  On purpose.  Someone has to get the old beat up sander that was returned on day 29. 

Just like musical chairs.  Great fun until you sit in a chair with gum on it ; or you're the one left standing.  You don't have to be happy about it, but you were told the rules beforehand.  You may also want to read the numerous Kapex threads around here if you haven't already.  I can't imagine how you'll feel if yours suddenly quits working in a couple of years.

It really is enough already on sharp-shooting this that and the other when it comes to what Festool does. They were having a recon sale so these were not new items. Like every business you want the maximum price the market can absorb. They tried one price and they either did not sell out or they had some lesser quality ones to sell. The goal is to get rid of all of them and start with a clean slate. My question for the purchaser is why buy the Kapex with its' history. You don't get the warranty of a new one, but you can set aside the savings for the potential repair.

Offline Cochese

  • Posts: 259
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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2017, 01:17 PM »
What if you buy a tool that goes up in value. ?

Are you going to send Festool a check for for that 10 year old Domino that you bought for $750 and sold on eBay for $850 last month ?

Never had a used tool go up in value but even if it did, I'm not a retail tool manufacturer so this example is kind of stupid.

I purchased the Kapex 120 about 2 weeks ago from the Festool Recon site for about $1120. First I received the saw without the bevel which has been shipped (thank you) but then the exact same saw was listed a week later on the same site for $958!!  When asked for a credit for the difference I was told no.  This does not seem like a good way to make happy customers.

Why would you get a price adjustment on a used tool?  Its not an apples to apples swap.  If you buy a used car this week and then find the same make and model used car the following week, you're not going back to the dealership for a price adjustment.

Not sure how two exact same model Kapex saws are not apples to apples.  If the used car was the exact same condition and mileage and selling for 15 percent less than what I just paid you better believe I'd be ticked. 

So I don't think my post was received very well by some folks here who honestly come across like Festool fanboys or shareholders. A reconditioned tool sold by the manufacturer is not the same as Joe Homeowner selling used tools on eBay or a used car lot. If I walked into a retail store and bought a factory reconditioned tool and a week later they had it for sale for less than I paid, most reputable stores will offer up the difference as a measure of good will to the customer. Festool is supposed to have outstanding customer service so I assumed that they would at least be on par with a Home Depot or Walmart but now they have a customer who was quickly dismissed and not shown any good will who had previously happily handed over several thousand hard earned dollars for their tools and will probably not purchase any more just because of the bad taste they left trying to offload their returned merchandise.  So lessons learned, I also won't dare to look for consolement from an Internet forum of fanboys.

You're claiming that the tools offered at different price points were in the exact same condition. I'd ask you to prove that.

Because the proof exists otherwise based on many years of these recon sales.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2017, 01:25 PM »
I think speculation on whether or not the change in the amount of discount has anything to do with the condition of the tool is just that ............ pure speculation.

Seth

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 605
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2017, 01:50 PM »
I'm with @Johnhend on this one.

With all the speculation about differences in condition, I'm thinking it's a lot more likely that the first batch of Kapex recons didn't sell out in 15 minutes (perhaps for reasons that FOGers will understand), so they lowered the price on the second batch to get rid of them faster.  I think they are trying to build a mystique around the emails that says, "if you don't pull the trigger on this deal -now-, it will be gone."  They don't want people to think too long about whether to buy or not.  They are manipulating emotions by manufacturing a sense of urgency.  And for the most part it's working, but when something like the Kapex doesn't sell out right away, they take steps to deal with it next time by lowering the price to maintain the illusion that you have to buy now.  John is just a victim of market pricing strategies, and Festool isn't providing any price guarantees.  Caveat Emptor.

Admittedly speculation on my part, but it has some amount of explanatory power.  It makes more sense to me than thinking that Festool is examining the condition of each recon tool to determine the price point.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 01:55 PM by HarveyWildes »

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1155
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2017, 01:56 PM »
I agree with Harvey, but I would not describe the buyer as a "victim". It's a fair game.
Prices fluctuate all the time for myriad of reasons. What is the problem here?

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 605
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2017, 02:30 PM »
Fair enough, in the context of wide-open capitalist economics.  But people who want to establish brand loyalty over the long run know that part of the brand loyalty comes from giving potential buyers an orderly, predictable way of interacting with the brand.  Most of the time Festool gets the orderly, predictable part right, at least with their new tools, but I've seen holes in the last couple of years:
*  The Pro 5 promotion wasn't botched because it was a bad deal.  It was botched because the stock was committed before the advertisements were published.  That makes Festool appear capricious.
*  The current approach to refurb sales (if I'm right) where prices can vary by 15-20% without notice from sale to sale, or where old products are offered without clarity, or where the products do not appear to have been reconditioned, makes Festool appear capricious, especially with the situational (e.g. manufactured) pressure to buy now.
*  Reliability issues that go unaddressed and un-remedied make Festool appear capricious - are they all about reliability or not?

Perceptions of capriciousness rather than dependability translate to lack of trust, and that is bad for long term brand loyalty.

So maybe "victim" isn't the right word, but I certainly sympathize with John if he has less trust in the Festool brand today than he did a couple of weeks ago.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 02:36 PM by HarveyWildes »

Offline cghunt

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2017, 04:13 PM »
Regarding Festool recon purchases in general, what experiences have been had with the condition upon arrival? The reason I ask is I was extremely disappointed in the condition of CT 36 E I received today… besides the hose garage being completely destroyed, it was completely covered in filth. In my opinion the unit was not reconditioned but plucked straight from a job site and sent to my door. With a manufacture date of 04/2010 I would hardly say the unit was gently used. With the amount of grime on the outside there is no way the internals could have been inspected for wear. With all that being said, still paying close to 600usd for a 7+ year old, dirty, damaged unit seems insane. I was under the assumption Festool would not allow this lack of detail.

Offline ishmerc

  • Posts: 88
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2017, 06:26 PM »
Regarding Festool recon purchases in general, what experiences have been had with the condition upon arrival? The reason I ask is I was extremely disappointed in the condition of CT 36 E I received today… besides the hose garage being completely destroyed, it was completely covered in filth. In my opinion the unit was not reconditioned but plucked straight from a job site and sent to my door. With a manufacture date of 04/2010 I would hardly say the unit was gently used. With the amount of grime on the outside there is no way the internals could have been inspected for wear. With all that being said, still paying close to 600usd for a 7+ year old, dirty, damaged unit seems insane. I was under the assumption Festool would not allow this lack of detail.
Put it back in the box ,write return to sender.Call UPS to come pick it up ,and wait for a refund .You don't even have to call them .They'll know what to do once it arrive .

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2017, 06:36 PM »
Regarding Festool recon purchases in general, what experiences have been had with the condition upon arrival? The reason I ask is I was extremely disappointed in the condition of CT 36 E I received today… besides the hose garage being completely destroyed, it was completely covered in filth. In my opinion the unit was not reconditioned but plucked straight from a job site and sent to my door. With a manufacture date of 04/2010 I would hardly say the unit was gently used. With the amount of grime on the outside there is no way the internals could have been inspected for wear. With all that being said, still paying close to 600usd for a 7+ year old, dirty, damaged unit seems insane. I was under the assumption Festool would not allow this lack of detail.

I guess I have to ask the question that will be formulating in others' minds - Did you even try to contact Festool about what you received before posting here?  You didn't mention that in your first post here.  If not, you probably should do that and give them the same courtesy you would expect as a manufacturer and retailer.

@TylerC

Peter
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:06 PM by Peter Halle »
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline glass1

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2017, 07:16 PM »
As usual all problems are the users fault. What the whole world isn’t already posting on the fog.   


Offline eeeesh

  • Posts: 7
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2017, 07:20 PM »
Regarding Festool recon purchases in general, what experiences have been had with the condition upon arrival? The reason I ask is I was extremely disappointed in the condition of CT 36 E I received today… besides the hose garage being completely destroyed, it was completely covered in filth. In my opinion the unit was not reconditioned but plucked straight from a job site and sent to my door. With a manufacture date of 04/2010 I would hardly say the unit was gently used. With the amount of grime on the outside there is no way the internals could have been inspected for wear. With all that being said, still paying close to 600usd for a 7+ year old, dirty, damaged unit seems insane. I was under the assumption Festool would not allow this lack of detail.

Why would you keep that?

I know Festools says 'no returns', but I think if I was in your shoes I would call them up, tell them or email a photo of the condition of the vac and ask them to send UPS out to pick it up for a return and full credit back to your credit card or replace it with a unit in good condition.  If they balked at that, get the name of the person you talked to and file a dispute with your credit card company - "item not as described".

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2017, 07:26 PM »
Festool sets the terms and conditions for this Forum. If it feels that the merchant/retailer/Festool, where applicable, should be contacted first before a service or sales problem is reported/shared here, such guidelines can be established for every Forum member to follow. This will put a stop to the recurring discussions about this topic.

Of course, if and when such guidelines are in existence and someone posts a service/purchase issue here, we would give them the benefit of the doubt with the assumption that they have tried to resolve their concerns with the supplier before they come here to escalate the issue in the Forum.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2017, 07:28 PM »
As usual all problems are the users fault. What the whole world isn’t already posting on the fog.

I just asked a question.

That is allowed by the forum guidelines.

I would have contacted them if I received a unit like that.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2017, 07:30 PM »
Festool sets the terms and conditions for this Forum. If it feels that the merchant/retailer/Festool, where applicable, should be contacted first before a service or sales problem is reported/shared here, such guidelines can be established for every Forum member to follow. This will put a stop to the recurring discussions about this topic.

Of course, if and when such guidelines are in existence and someone posts a service/purchase issue here, we would give them the benefit of the doubt with the assumption that they have tried to resolve their concerns with the supplier before they come here to escalate the issue in the Forum.

@ChuckM If you scroll up to the top of this thread and look at the blue box and its contents you will see what Festool asked.

Peter Halle - Moderator
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:32 PM by Peter Halle »
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2017, 07:35 PM »
Festool sets the terms and conditions for this Forum. If it feels that the merchant/retailer/Festool, where applicable, should be contacted first before a service or sales problem is reported/shared here, such guidelines can be established for every Forum member to follow. This will put a stop to the recurring discussions about this topic.

Of course, if and when such guidelines are in existence and someone posts a service/purchase issue here, we would give them the benefit of the doubt with the assumption that they have tried to resolve their concerns with the supplier before they come here to escalate the issue in the Forum.

@ChuckM If you scroll up to the top of this thread and look at the blue box and its contents you will see what Festool asked.

Peter Halle - Moderator

Blue box? Can't see it on my screen - Plz see the screenshot attached.

Do you have a link to the box?

Offline antss

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2017, 07:36 PM »
I think boxing it up and sending it back without contacting FT first is just asking for trouble.  It certainly reckless advice.  Under the terms of the sale hunt got what was advertised - albeit with some shipping damage.   

I'm sure festool didn't knowingly send out a vacuum with a busted hose garage.  Lots of FOGgers know that the garage is the weak point of these vacs and even Bob has said the biggest damage to items he sends out is those vac hose garages.  And you should see how he packages his stuff for delivery .

Hunt , did your vac arrive in a factory box with the fitted carrier ?  Was there and obvious trauma to the outer box ?  Also , did you read the terms of the sale before or after purchase ?

"What is the condition of refurbished tools?

Reconditioned tools can include gently used tools and discontinued items. Used tools are inspected by Festool trained technicians. All tools meet Festool’s high performance and quality standards. However, you should expect them to have visual blemishes.  "

Pay particular attention to the last line.   [eek]

Based on your pic, I'd consider that vac gently used.  Dust on a vac is expected with use.  I take pretty good care of mine and and all have some sort of scuffs, marks , and dust on them and don't look as "smooth" as that one appears under the dust.   What condition are the filters in ?  if those are a mess then I'd change my mind.


I'm sure Tyler can sort you out.   

And hopefully speak to management about why something as easy as dusting / vacuuming off a tool before sending it out isn't part of the recon process  ?   I'm not talking about polishing  and deep cleaning, but that didn't even include a cursory wipe down.  The German techs I know would be embarrassed to have their name associated with that work. 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:40 PM by antss »

Offline TylerC

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2017, 07:36 PM »
Regarding Festool recon purchases in general, what experiences have been had with the condition upon arrival? The reason I ask is I was extremely disappointed in the condition of CT 36 E I received today… besides the hose garage being completely destroyed, it was completely covered in filth. In my opinion the unit was not reconditioned but plucked straight from a job site and sent to my door. With a manufacture date of 04/2010 I would hardly say the unit was gently used. With the amount of grime on the outside there is no way the internals could have been inspected for wear. With all that being said, still paying close to 600usd for a 7+ year old, dirty, damaged unit seems insane. I was under the assumption Festool would not allow this lack of detail.

I'm sorry for your frustration with this. Please send me a message with few more pictures including a clearer shot of the hose garage. I'll speak with our recon team tomorrow for you.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2017, 07:53 PM »
Festool sets the terms and conditions for this Forum. If it feels that the merchant/retailer/Festool, where applicable, should be contacted first before a service or sales problem is reported/shared here, such guidelines can be established for every Forum member to follow. This will put a stop to the recurring discussions about this topic.

Of course, if and when such guidelines are in existence and someone posts a service/purchase issue here, we would give them the benefit of the doubt with the assumption that they have tried to resolve their concerns with the supplier before they come here to escalate the issue in the Forum.

@ChuckM If you scroll up to the top of this thread and look at the blue box and its contents you will see what Festool asked.

Peter Halle - Moderator

Blue box? Can't see it on my screen - Plz see the screenshot attached.

Do you have a link to the box?

Here is a screen shot.
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2017, 08:05 PM »
Got it, and thanks.

Good to know such guidelines do exist.

I think some posters -- especially those with single digit posts -- might have missed that notice, which couldn't be seen once they signed in.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2017, 08:12 PM »
Got it, and thanks.

Good to know such guidelines do exist.

I think some posters -- especially those with single digit posts -- might have missed that notice, which couldn't be seen once they signed in.

@ChuckM , actually thank you for pointing out a forum issue.  After your screen shot I started wondering.  Dinner interfered but I then went to my wife's computer and looked at this thread as a guest.  The blue box was there.  I then signed on as my wife (she is a member here) and then just like you I couldn't see that box.

I'll let @TylerC  know about this snafu and see if they at Festool can confirm what I just experienced.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Gregor

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2017, 08:47 PM »
@ChuckM , actually thank you for pointing out a forum issue.  After your screen shot I started wondering.  Dinner interfered but I then went to my wife's computer and looked at this thread as a guest.  The blue box was there.  I then signed on as my wife (she is a member here) and then just like you I couldn't see that box.

I'll let @TylerC  know about this snafu and see if they at Festool can confirm what I just experienced.
Please, enable us to switch that thing off in the preferences.

Offline mwildt

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2017, 09:12 PM »
Don't see any blue box as picture shows, when using an iPad os10 and chrome.

Offline eeeesh

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2017, 09:21 PM »
Reconditioned tools can include gently used tools and discontinued items. Used tools are inspected by Festool trained technicians. All tools meet Festool’s high performance and quality standards. However, you should expect them to have visual blemishes.  "

Pay particular attention to the last line.   [eek]

Based on your pic, I'd consider that vac gently used.  Dust on a vac is expected with use.  I take pretty good care of mine and and all have some sort of scuffs, marks , and dust on them and don't look as "smooth" as that one appears under the dust.   What condition are the filters in ?  if those are a mess then I'd change my mind.

The black piece that goes above the switch (hose garage or whatever you call it) with the Festool sticker on it is broken/trashed...



« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 09:27 PM by eeeesh »

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2017, 09:45 PM »
Selling and buying second-hand or reconditioned items without the benefit of pictures is bound to result in some kind of dissatisfaction or disappointment, because we all have different views on or interpretation of what high or "quality standards" is. Is cleanliness part of the high standards? Yes for some (including me), but no for others. Cosmetic damages that don't affect functions, on the other hand, are tough calls, and either party can argue their case...with no clear winners in the end.

Someone bought a handplane (sold as manufacture seconds) at one of the recent Cyber Monday events and after receiving it, complained that it had more marks (I think he meant scratches, but he did not show any images) than he expected. (He had no issues with the functionality of the plane.)

I am not interested in any sale or sales that is blindfolded, regardless of the % of discount offered. To get second-hand items, I trust Kijiji and EBay (and my eyes) only. One exception: Lee Valley Tools; they take back whatever you are not happy with even if it is a sale item.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 09:50 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Alex

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2017, 03:09 AM »
I can't imagine "reconditioned" means getting a tool with broken parts. Scuffs and scratches from usage, understandably, but not broken, I thought reconditioned meant to restore it to as new functionality.

The way this vac looks is like it's never even been touched by the service department.

Offline antss

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2017, 07:42 AM »
Fellas, it's pretty clear that this is SHIPPING DAMAGE.   It happens.  The time, effort and shipping costs to correct this is going to cost more than the part.  So I think it's safe to say FT didn't send out a vac with a busted garage hoping the customer wouldn't notice it or would just accept it because of the sweet deal he got.   ::)

One of the Forum's dealers posted recently about this very same issue when he sends out brand new in the box vacuums.  Hose garages break a little too easily.



Perhaps people could chime in on what their "expectations" are/were for a tool out of this sale ? 

A brand new tool minus two years of warranty ?  Something less ?

For me, I'd expect to receive a tool that functions as advertised and that's it.  But then again, I'm not about to participate in this because the terms just aren't favorable enough to warrant the risk.   I'm with Chuck. At least on the typical secondary market sites I can see the actual item I'm going to purchase. 

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2017, 08:34 AM »
Perhaps people could chime in on what their "expectations" are/were for a tool out of this sale ? 

I would not expect a tool that was 7 years old. 
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Offline jimbo51

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2017, 08:51 AM »
I bought a few items on Recon sales many years ago. They were delivered in excellent condition from the dealers who participated in the process back then.

I thought that years ago the Recon sales was how Festool disposed of items that had been returned during the 30 day try out period. I have recently seen discussions of how Festool dealers have the option of selling some returns as new.

I would never participate in a recon now knowing that I could be receiving a 7 year old tool.

Offline JimH2

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2017, 09:05 AM »
Fair enough, in the context of wide-open capitalist economics.  But people who want to establish brand loyalty over the long run know that part of the brand loyalty comes from giving potential buyers an orderly, predictable way of interacting with the brand.  Most of the time Festool gets the orderly, predictable part right, at least with their new tools, but I've seen holes in the last couple of years:
*  The Pro 5 promotion wasn't botched because it was a bad deal.  It was botched because the stock was committed before the advertisements were published.  That makes Festool appear capricious.
*  The current approach to refurb sales (if I'm right) where prices can vary by 15-20% without notice from sale to sale, or where old products are offered without clarity, or where the products do not appear to have been reconditioned, makes Festool appear capricious, especially with the situational (e.g. manufactured) pressure to buy now.
*  Reliability issues that go unaddressed and un-remedied make Festool appear capricious - are they all about reliability or not?

Perceptions of capriciousness rather than dependability translate to lack of trust, and that is bad for long term brand loyalty.

So maybe "victim" isn't the right word, but I certainly sympathize with John if he has less trust in the Festool brand today than he did a couple of weeks ago.

There is nothing shady about the sale. Festool is offering a used, but working tool at a decent discount. Don't expect anything more than that. Their goal is to get rid of this dead inventory and if a second offering at a lower price it is what it takes then so be it.

Given the number of tools offered for sale it concerns me that we all will be paying the price for the tire kickers who buy and return before the 30 days are up. I have seen one case of FOG'er encouraging another FOG'er to buy use and return a tool. This is not how the system is supposed to work. If it has not already having large stocks of returned items will cost us all in the end.

Offline antss

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2017, 09:27 AM »
Quote
If it has not already having large stocks of returned items will cost us all in the end.

um, the customer always pays.  It's no different with Festool.  And , marketing didn't just dream up the 30day trial as a hook without first running the numbers by accounting and the actuarial wonks to get a handle on how much the "feature" was going to add to overhead.

Nordstrom has a similar policy and has for decades.  It works for most, but there will always be abusers.

Offline promark747

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2017, 09:35 AM »
I've had tremendous success in previous recon sales, probably because the items I bought (T12 drills, OF2000 routers) were discontinued, unsold stock.  That being said, I think Festool should be embarrassed to have shipped that "reconditioned" CT (even assuming the damage to the hose garage was shipping-related).

Offline Cheese

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2017, 09:42 AM »
I would not expect a tool that was 7 years old.

I didn't either...and then the MFK 700 arrived, It was manufactured 9 years ago. I do have to say though that it was in like-new condition, absolutely pristine. I've fired it up and used it for some edge routing and everything seems fine. I'm just amazed though how an item like this can remain in hiding for so long.  [eek]

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2017, 09:45 AM »
That being said, I think Festool should be embarrassed to have shipped that "reconditioned" CT (even assuming the damage to the hose garage was shipping-related).

A blow gun and an open space would have got rid of any dust issues (inside and out). Perhaps, this blowing task should be included as one of the mandatory steps in the preparation/checklist when the next recond. sale is organized.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 09:52 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2017, 10:00 AM »
I didn't either...and then the MFK 700 arrived, It was manufactured 9 years ago. I do have to say though that it was in like-new condition, absolutely pristine. I've fired it up and used it for some edge routing and everything seems fine. I'm just amazed though how an item like this can remain in hiding for so long.  [eek]

I don't know what you paid for your 700, but it might have been pretty close the full retail price 9 years ago.  That would certainly make me question the "deal" I got...  Keep in mind the MFK (and CT vacs have) had updates/improvements in recent years.  Getting a used tool with less features, and one year warranty, there better be a deep discount.   
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Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2017, 10:06 AM »


I don't know what you paid for your 700, but it might have been pretty close the full retail price 9 years ago.  That would certainly make me question the "deal" I got...  Keep in mind the MFK (and CT vacs have) had updates/improvements in recent years.  Getting a used tool with less features, and one year warranty, there better be a deep discount.

Very good point!

By default, with some exceptions, anything -- power or hand tools -- offered with less than 30% discount would not receive my attention or consideration. 50% or more would be my usual starting point. That sounds picky but don't forget that the seller got a good deal for using it (for 1 -5 years, say) and then getting back half of the price he or she paid. It could have cost more to the seller if it was a rental tool.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 10:09 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2017, 10:20 AM »
I don't know what you paid for your 700, but it might have been pretty close the full retail price 9 years ago.  That would certainly make me question the "deal" I got... 
Keep in mind the MFK (and CT vacs have) had updates/improvements in recent years.  Getting a used tool with less features, and one year warranty, there better be a deep discount.

Hey Brice, you're probably right on the price issue also...I paid $424.

Just curious what the updates are? Was this discussed earlier on the FOG?

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2017, 11:50 AM »
Hey Brice, you're probably right on the price issue also...I paid $424.

Just curious what the updates are? Was this discussed earlier on the FOG?
I just checked, the prices were $400 for the basic and $525 for the set in '09.  I believe the bearing for the horizontal base was updated a couple of years ago. 
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Offline antss

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2017, 02:45 PM »
I would not expect a tool that was 7 years old.

I didn't either...and then the MFK 700 arrived, It was manufactured 9 years ago. I do have to say though that it was in like-new condition, absolutely pristine. I've fired it up and used it for some edge routing and everything seems fine. I'm just amazed though how an item like this can remain in hiding for so long.  [eek]


You know, even with the discount you paid more for that tool than it cost new 9 years ago.   [eek]

Offline Jurgen W

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2017, 03:40 PM »
Well, after reading this post regarding Recon FT, I am kinda getting nervous as I am expecting my CT36 vacuum.....  I sure hope it to be in better condition then what the picture showed I paid $567+tax.  Thank you for the blue box screenshot that was posted, I do not see this either on my Mac or IPad.  Will get you feedback on my opening the box.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2017, 04:32 PM »
You know, even with the discount you paid more for that tool than it cost new 9 years ago.   [eek]

I don’t want to hear about it...I’m just happy in my bubble.  [big grin]

To make things even sweeter, it came in an original Systainer that I had to swap out to the tune of $76. [eek]

Offline ishmerc

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2017, 05:30 PM »
You know, even with the discount you paid more for that tool than it cost new 9 years ago.   [eek]

I don’t want to hear about it...I’m just happy in my bubble.  [big grin]

To make things even sweeter, it came in an original Systainer that I had to swap out to the tune of $76. [eek]
So did Festool take the 25% off the current price for the MFK700 or the 2008 price .

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2017, 07:19 PM »
I don’t want to hear about it...I’m just happy in my bubble.  [big grin]

To make things even sweeter, it came in an original Systainer that I had to swap out to the tune of $76. [eek]

Yeah, I forgot about that upgrade too.
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Offline cghunt

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2017, 08:47 PM »
To be clear once i opened box and noticed damage i contacted festool recon. They responded shortly with an apology and told me replacement parts would come my way. I buy many things online and on occasion receive broken items, (no big deal). My primary issue are 1. if some thing is considered a reconditioned product it should at very least reasonably appear that some care was taken to actually refurbish it (e.g. Not covered in grime) 2. The website implies the product will be in gently used condition or a discontinued product. ( ok, i have no problem with that). But a 7 year old product covered in saw dust which i can only assume has been in a production environment over the last 7 years hardly qualifies as gently used. I did ask festool recon their thoughts on this matter but have had no response.  So my question is.. is the small discount worth it? Its hard to say ... would i attempt a recon sale again.. probably not..
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 09:57 PM by cghunt »

Offline antss

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2017, 08:57 PM »
another question for those of you that braved the lines and participated in the Connect sale(s) -

would you have still bought that vacuum covered in dust ?


Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2017, 08:57 PM »

To be clear once i opened box and noticed damage i contacted festool recon. They responded shortly with an apology and told me replacement parts would come my way. I buy many things online and on occasion receive broken items, (no big deal). My primary issue are 1. if some thing is considered a reconditioned product it should at very least reasonably appear that some care was taken to actually refurbish it (e.g. Not covered in grime) 2. The website implies the product will be in gently used condition or a discontinued product. ( ok, i have no problem with that). But a 7 year old product covered in saw dust which i can only assume has been in a production environment over the last 7 years hardly qualifies as gently used. I did ask festool recon their thoughts on this matter but have had no response.  So my question is.. is the small discount worth it? Its hard to say ... would i attempt a recon sale again.. probably not..

Thanks for the clarification. That takes a bit of the guess work out for those replying to your post.

Seth

Offline Jurgen W

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2017, 05:12 PM »
Well, after reading this post regarding Recon FT, I am kinda getting nervous as I am expecting my CT36 vacuum.....  I sure hope it to be in better condition then what the picture showed I paid $567+tax.  Thank you for the blue box screenshot that was posted, I do not see this either on my Mac or IPad.  Will get you feedback on my opening the box.


Just got my CT36. Good to report that it came complete and relatively “clean” however a little quality control, even on reconditioned tools wouldn’t hurt the brand of high end tools.  Found some dust all over but for the price I am not worried and used the vacuum to clean the vacuum ironically. The date of manufacturing is stated as 05/14
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 05:15 PM by Jurgen W »

Offline eeeesh

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2017, 07:01 PM »
Seeing what these two vacs looked like - what really is the difference between 'reconditioned' and 'used' other that one sounds better?

What did they do to the 'used' vac so that now it is a 'reconditioned' vac?  A couple of words come to mind, like 'inspected' where they look at and see if everything is ok, but we know from the one Kapex purchase, they are not even doing that since it was shipped missing parts....


Offline antss

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2017, 09:09 PM »
My guess is replace whatever was broken on them internally like a switch , socket, turbine, ect...

What did the hoses look like ?  Beat up or new ?  Do they have the old ends or the new cleantec piece of junk ?


I think part of the issue here is that people have come to expect basically a "new" tool when buying a recon.  Festool has seemingly sent out some new tools for some of these sales and manuf. like Dewalt, Makita, and Milwaukee routinely do that.   The manufacturers have conditioned the market.

However..........................................the terms of this sale don't say that's what you'll get.  So, you shouldn't expect it.   Expect to get a used tool that is made 100% functional before it's sent to you.  If you get a new domino with a metric scale , fine and dandy.  But don't count on it. 


Offline Jurgen W

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2017, 12:36 AM »
The CT36 dust collector came with the hose that looked brand new however both connector ends were definitely used there was a new hepa filter, bag and electric cord attachment also new. Other than that, the extractor was used, and I would say that Festool is definitely selling used items that has been inspected, and tested, definitely not cleaned  ;)
Personally when I hear the word “reconditioned” I usually think of tools that have been purchased, returned, perhaps within the period of warranty for reasons of dissatisfaction or malfunction and therefore the manufacturer takes it back do the repairs and sell it as such.
When a tool is 7 year old (as in a former post indicated) or as in my case 5/2014 that tells me it is “used” in the sense that it is definitely past warranty period.

I just wonder why Festool is dealing with this, I would think that there is just too much hassle dealing with this that potentially can affect their name.....  It kinda did with the fact that they can do a better job sending clean used products.

Otherwise Happy with the purchase

Offline glass1

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2017, 06:27 AM »
If I bought a reconditioned tool from the manufacturer that was 7 years old I would expect there to be a new motor in it, especially a tool like a vacuum.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2017, 09:05 AM »
Not so sure that just because a tool is however many years old that it has actually been in use for that time period. Maybe just been sitting in the warehouse after a return. Maybe , maybe not.

I don't know really but it's a possibility.

Seth

Offline Jaybolishes

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2017, 09:47 AM »
Johnhend, before the newest recon tool sale format, there was a list of the tools offered and next to each tool was the  discount percentage offered between 10%-35%.  The tools marked down 35% had visible signs of use. The tools at 10% discount had practically no signs of use. I bought 5 tools from the old format and I can guarantee that the tools with higher mark down looked used with minor scratches and the 10% marked tools looked unused. I do not think festool would have changed this methodology.  So these tools are not all  apples to apples in any way. Clearly your tool must have been in better shape than the one you are griping about. 

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2017, 10:04 AM »
I said earlier in the thread that I wouldn't buy any non-new tools without seeing a picture...with one exception: unless they come from Lee Valley. To prove my point, here are two images showing the manufacture second (a small bevel-up smooth plane from the Cyber Monday sale) that I picked up yesterday from the store.

The effective discount was slightly more than 25% ($268 vs $199.50 all Cdn).

The only blemish on the plane is seen on the edge of the wing. Everything else is new including the PM-V11 blade, box, etc.

Even though it was a sale event, they set the standards high (without promising anything in public) and over delivered it. Their brand (Veritas) and reputation (Lee Valley) are carefully developed, expanded and protected.

Festool should learn from this recon sale and evaluate what went wrong and rethink if it is worth dumping the excess stock in a manner that hurts its core brand reputation. I, for one, won't participate in any recon sale without the benefit of pictures even if it is available to Canadians. I hate hit or miss in my woodwork, or in my acquisitions.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 10:23 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2017, 10:06 AM »
Not so sure that just because a tool is however many years old that it has actually been in use for that time period. Maybe just been sitting in the warehouse after a return. Maybe , maybe not.

I don't know really but it's a possibility.

Seth

I'm with Seth on this one...my recon MFK, even though 9 years old, has certainly not been in use for the last 9 years. It arrived spotless except for a little sawdust in the collet area, meaning just specks of sawdust. And even though it was in an old style Systainer, the Systainer itself was absolutely mint with no marks/scratches on the inside or outside.

I just think the MFK was returned, checked out by the Service Tech's, put on a shelf and forgotten. I know that sounds strange and maybe it speaks volumes on Festool's command over inventory control  [eek], but I don't have a better explanation that makes more sense.  [big grin]

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 351
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2017, 10:14 AM »
That’s some good Kool  aid. Come on a 7 year old vacuum for virtually full price. I recently bought a ct33 from my local dealer. It sat unused it the store. Paid $150.

Offline bnaboatbuilder

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2017, 10:31 AM »
I wouldn't buy a 3 or 7 or 9 year old UNUSED car, TV, computer, phone, etc for 25% off current new price ever (let alone a USED one). So the fact that Festool does that with some of the recon tools is a disgrace.

I won't bother with recon tools in the future under the current method. With my state sales tax, my discount is only 15.75%, which in hindsight quite pathetic for 1 year warranty and no return policy. But in reality no one makes a Domino XL competing product. It's the only one of a kind tool out there. Mirka makes a drywall sander now, plenty of edge banding products, track saws from everyone, sanders everywhere, drills galore from a 100 companies worldwide.

I do think we Festool owners are suckers too many times. One reason I gladly look for quality, less expensive alternatives from other tool makers.

Enjoy that price increase in a few months.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 10:47 AM by bnaboatbuilder »
- John

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 268
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2017, 11:13 AM »
I wouldn't buy a 3 or 7 or 9 year old UNUSED car, TV, computer, phone, etc for 25% off current new price ever (let alone a USED one).


Agreed. Best Buy, Staples, etc. regularly discount NEW items/stock at more than 25%, and often I am still not tempted, because I know on sale events, they offer even deeper discounts.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2017, 11:59 AM »
I just think the MFK was returned, checked out by the Service Tech's, put on a shelf and forgotten. I know that sounds strange and maybe it speaks volumes on Festool's command over inventory control  [eek], but I don't have a better explanation that makes more sense.  [big grin]

Its also possible that it was stock that a retail sold back to Festool when they stopped selling the line.
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Offline Cheese

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2017, 12:11 PM »
Its also possible that it was stock that a retail sold back to Festool when they stopped selling the line.

Good point Brice...never thought of that.  [tongue]

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 351
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2017, 02:21 PM »
Or maybe the motor is replaced. Just think of all those out of warranty Festools returned to be repaired but that cost more to repair than to buy new. Bingo

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2017, 02:45 PM »
Yes, there are quite a few possibilities other than the tool having been in actual use for the number of years. 

Seth

Offline kevinculle

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2017, 02:57 PM »
OTOH if Festool offers a tool as a recon and someone pays the asking price then that's what it's worth...to them anyway.

Offline mikeomalley

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2017, 03:22 PM »
Kevin, Totally agree!


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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 268
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2017, 03:24 PM »
OTOH if Festool offers a tool as a recon and someone pays the asking price then that's what it's worth...to them anyway.

Only partially true, because at least one post here is about a recon dust extractor that the buyer does not feel meeting his expectation.

Offline Alex

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2017, 03:55 PM »
OTOH if Festool offers a tool as a recon and someone pays the asking price then that's what it's worth...to them anyway.

I'd say that's true with normal sales where you know you can expect a new tool.

The recon sales are an exception because you can not be entirely sure of the condition of the tool you get, it is bit of a gamble. And when taking part in this gamble, a buyer relies on the word and reputation of a company like Festool that it will be worth it. Turns out that isn't always the case.

Offline promark747

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #76 on: December 08, 2017, 04:09 PM »
Well, after reading this post regarding Recon FT, I am kinda getting nervous as I am expecting my CT36 vacuum.....  I sure hope it to be in better condition then what the picture showed I paid $567+tax.  Thank you for the blue box screenshot that was posted, I do not see this either on my Mac or IPad.  Will get you feedback on my opening the box.


Just got my CT36. Good to report that it came complete and relatively “clean” however a little quality control, even on reconditioned tools wouldn’t hurt the brand of high end tools.  Found some dust all over but for the price I am not worried and used the vacuum to clean the vacuum ironically. The date of manufacturing is stated as 05/14

Is that how it was shipped?  (No packing material?)  If so, it's a miracle it got there unscathed.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #77 on: December 08, 2017, 04:21 PM »
The training centers are also moving their old tools out and new tools in.  Who knows, maybe the same thing is happening with Sales Managers.  You might be getting a Sedge used and approved tool and don't know it.  Perhaps an autograph would raise the price?   [big grin]

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #78 on: December 08, 2017, 04:58 PM »
You might be getting a Sedge used and approved tool and don't know it.  Perhaps an autograph would raise the price?   [big grin]

Peter

Such items, if any, should be identified and tagged as such and auctioned off, may I suggest, instead of being in the mix of recon sale, which is usually of no collectable value.  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 05:01 PM by ChuckM »

Offline antss

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2017, 05:18 PM »
Quote
Only partially true, because at least one post here is about a recon dust extractor that the buyer does not feel meeting his expectation.

I don't think buyers remorse is going to garner much sympathy. 

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #80 on: December 08, 2017, 05:32 PM »
Quote
Only partially true, because at least one post here is about a recon dust extractor that the buyer does not feel meeting his expectation.

I don't think buyers remorse is going to garner much sympathy.

I disagree that the dust extractor example is a case of buyer's remorse.

If I know what I am buying including its condition and regret over the purchase, then it is buyer's remorse. But if I agreed to pay $xxx for something from a reputable vendor and received something different from my reasonable expectations, then the asking price I paid would not be what it's worth.

Offline antss

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #81 on: December 08, 2017, 06:03 PM »
I disagree too.  Shipping damage happens. 

I've gotten brand new gear from Shane that has shown up on my doorstep broken.  Sure, it didn't meet my expectations - I don't expect stuff to arrive broke to me even though I know it happens to other people.   ::)

From that perspective , I can never be satisfied because we cannot wind back time and do it over where I get an unbroken saw the first time.  Don't worry Shane, y'all took care of everything lickity split and I'm very happy.

Festool isn't a retailer , and they don't want to be as far as I know. They have neither the culture nor the desire to be a retailer. So comparisons to Lee Valley aren't really fair or accurate.

Once that vacuum has a new hose garage it clearly meets the description of what festool said one might receive in the sale.   That a customer rolled the dice for 25% off thinking they'd get a 'New" tool and then didn't - then feel their "expectations" weren't met is clearly unreasonable to me.     Others may feel differently and are entitled to their opinions too.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #82 on: December 08, 2017, 06:29 PM »
I disagree too.  Shipping damage happens. 



I think we can only agree to disagree here because we have different vendor expectations as well as purchase experiences. Woodworkers are never known to be a homogeneous group of consumers.

Also, never have I intended to compare Festool to Lee Valley Tools; they both have different corporate cultures, business strategies, customer bases, etc. I am only relaying to my Lee Valley purchase experience, one that I will benchmark my other sales/purchase experience against. And I certainly have not suggested that that is the benchmark other people should use or follow.

Offline Jurgen W

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #83 on: December 08, 2017, 08:56 PM »
Yes,

I took the picture as I was opening it, didn’t even take it out of the box....  however I have to say that it was in a Festool box and in turn in another box, I think you really had to throw it from a 1 story to cause damage.

Jurgen
Well, after reading this post regarding Recon FT, I am kinda getting nervous as I am expecting my CT36 vacuum.....  I sure hope it to be in better condition then what the picture showed I paid $567+tax.  Thank you for the blue box screenshot that was posted, I do not see this either on my Mac or IPad.  Will get you feedback on my opening the box.


Just got my CT36. Good to report that it came complete and relatively “clean” however a little quality control, even on reconditioned tools wouldn’t hurt the brand of high end tools.  Found some dust all over but for the price I am not worried and used the vacuum to clean the vacuum ironically. The date of manufacturing is stated as 05/14

Is that how it was shipped?  (No packing material?)  If so, it's a miracle it got there unscathed.

Offline antss

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Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #84 on: December 08, 2017, 11:48 PM »
Quote
never have I intended to compare Festool to Lee Valley Tools

Then why bring them up in the first place and then immediately say FT could learn a thing or two ?

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 268
Re: Festool Recon Kapex purchase
« Reply #85 on: December 09, 2017, 07:40 AM »
Quote
never have I intended to compare Festool to Lee Valley Tools

Then why bring them up in the first place and then immediately say FT could learn a thing or two ?

It is clear in my post that I was mentioning about my Cyber Monday sale experience to illustrate an earlier point I made that I wouldn't trust any blindfolded sale, except if I was dealing with LV. The Cyber Monday sale and the Festool recon sale were two events of completely different natures to compare. You are reading something that is not there.

This isn't the first time I commented about how Festool could improve its services, as any future improvements will benefit me as a customer, if and when I use them.