Author Topic: Festool Recon Kapex purchase (Read 7316 times)

Peter Halle · « **Reply #30 on:** December 05, 2017, 08:12 PM »

Quote from: ChuckM on December 05, 2017, 08:05 PM

Got it, and thanks.

Good to know such guidelines do exist.

I think some posters -- especially those with single digit posts -- might have missed that notice, which couldn't be seen once they signed in.

@ChuckM , actually thank you for pointing out a forum issue. After your screen shot I started wondering. Dinner interfered but I then went to my wife's computer and looked at this thread as a guest. The blue box was there. I then signed on as my wife (she is a member here) and then just like you I couldn't see that box.

I'll let @TylerC know about this snafu and see if they at Festool can confirm what I just experienced.

Peter

Gregor · « **Reply #31 on:** December 05, 2017, 08:47 PM »

Quote from: Peter Halle on December 05, 2017, 08:12 PM

@ChuckM , actually thank you for pointing out a forum issue. After your screen shot I started wondering. Dinner interfered but I then went to my wife's computer and looked at this thread as a guest. The blue box was there. I then signed on as my wife (she is a member here) and then just like you I couldn't see that box.

I'll let @TylerC know about this snafu and see if they at Festool can confirm what I just experienced.

Please, enable us to switch that thing off in the preferences.

mwildt · « **Reply #32 on:** December 05, 2017, 09:12 PM »

Don't see any blue box as picture shows, when using an iPad os10 and chrome.

eeeesh · « **Reply #33 on:** December 05, 2017, 09:21 PM »

Quote from: antss on December 05, 2017, 07:36 PM

Reconditioned tools can include gently used tools and discontinued items. Used tools are inspected by Festool trained technicians. All tools meet Festool’s high performance and quality standards. However, you should expect them to have visual blemishes. "

Pay particular attention to the last line.

Based on your pic, I'd consider that vac gently used. Dust on a vac is expected with use. I take pretty good care of mine and and all have some sort of scuffs, marks , and dust on them and don't look as "smooth" as that one appears under the dust. What condition are the filters in ? if those are a mess then I'd change my mind.

The black piece that goes above the switch (hose garage or whatever you call it) with the Festool sticker on it is broken/trashed...

ChuckM · « **Reply #34 on:** December 05, 2017, 09:45 PM »

Selling and buying second-hand or reconditioned items without the benefit of pictures is bound to result in some kind of dissatisfaction or disappointment, because we all have different views on or interpretation of what high or "quality standards" is. Is cleanliness part of the high standards? Yes for some (including me), but no for others. Cosmetic damages that don't affect functions, on the other hand, are tough calls, and either party can argue their case...with no clear winners in the end.

Someone bought a handplane (sold as manufacture seconds) at one of the recent Cyber Monday events and after receiving it, complained that it had more marks (I think he meant scratches, but he did not show any images) than he expected. (He had no issues with the functionality of the plane.)

I am not interested in any sale or sales that is blindfolded, regardless of the % of discount offered. To get second-hand items, I trust Kijiji and EBay (and my eyes) only. One exception: Lee Valley Tools; they take back whatever you are not happy with even if it is a sale item.

Alex · « **Reply #35 on:** December 06, 2017, 03:09 AM »

I can't imagine "reconditioned" means getting a tool with broken parts. Scuffs and scratches from usage, understandably, but not broken, I thought reconditioned meant to restore it to as new functionality.

The way this vac looks is like it's never even been touched by the service department.

antss · « **Reply #36 on:** December 06, 2017, 07:42 AM »

Fellas, it's pretty clear that this is SHIPPING DAMAGE. It happens. The time, effort and shipping costs to correct this is going to cost more than the part. So I think it's safe to say FT didn't send out a vac with a busted garage hoping the customer wouldn't notice it or would just accept it because of the sweet deal he got.

One of the Forum's dealers posted recently about this very same issue when he sends out brand new in the box vacuums. Hose garages break a little too easily.

Perhaps people could chime in on what their "expectations" are/were for a tool out of this sale ?

A brand new tool minus two years of warranty ? Something less ?

For me, I'd expect to receive a tool that functions as advertised and that's it. But then again, I'm not about to participate in this because the terms just aren't favorable enough to warrant the risk. I'm with Chuck. At least on the typical secondary market sites I can see the actual item I'm going to purchase.

Brice Burrell · « **Reply #37 on:** December 06, 2017, 08:34 AM »

Quote from: antss on December 06, 2017, 07:42 AM

Perhaps people could chime in on what their "expectations" are/were for a tool out of this sale ?

I would not expect a tool that was 7 years old.

jimbo51 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 06, 2017, 08:51 AM »

I bought a few items on Recon sales many years ago. They were delivered in excellent condition from the dealers who participated in the process back then.

I thought that years ago the Recon sales was how Festool disposed of items that had been returned during the 30 day try out period. I have recently seen discussions of how Festool dealers have the option of selling some returns as new.

I would never participate in a recon now knowing that I could be receiving a 7 year old tool.

JimH2 · « **Reply #39 on:** December 06, 2017, 09:05 AM »

Quote from: HarveyWildes on November 17, 2017, 02:30 PM

Fair enough, in the context of wide-open capitalist economics. But people who want to establish brand loyalty over the long run know that part of the brand loyalty comes from giving potential buyers an orderly, predictable way of interacting with the brand. Most of the time Festool gets the orderly, predictable part right, at least with their new tools, but I've seen holes in the last couple of years:
* The Pro 5 promotion wasn't botched because it was a bad deal. It was botched because the stock was committed before the advertisements were published. That makes Festool appear capricious.
* The current approach to refurb sales (if I'm right) where prices can vary by 15-20% without notice from sale to sale, or where old products are offered without clarity, or where the products do not appear to have been reconditioned, makes Festool appear capricious, especially with the situational (e.g. manufactured) pressure to buy now.
* Reliability issues that go unaddressed and un-remedied make Festool appear capricious - are they all about reliability or not?

Perceptions of capriciousness rather than dependability translate to lack of trust, and that is bad for long term brand loyalty.

So maybe "victim" isn't the right word, but I certainly sympathize with John if he has less trust in the Festool brand today than he did a couple of weeks ago.

There is nothing shady about the sale. Festool is offering a used, but working tool at a decent discount. Don't expect anything more than that. Their goal is to get rid of this dead inventory and if a second offering at a lower price it is what it takes then so be it.

Given the number of tools offered for sale it concerns me that we all will be paying the price for the tire kickers who buy and return before the 30 days are up. I have seen one case of FOG'er encouraging another FOG'er to buy use and return a tool. This is not how the system is supposed to work. If it has not already having large stocks of returned items will cost us all in the end.

antss · « **Reply #40 on:** December 06, 2017, 09:27 AM »

Quote

If it has not already having large stocks of returned items will cost us all in the end.

um, the customer always pays. It's no different with Festool. And , marketing didn't just dream up the 30day trial as a hook without first running the numbers by accounting and the actuarial wonks to get a handle on how much the "feature" was going to add to overhead.

Nordstrom has a similar policy and has for decades. It works for most, but there will always be abusers.

promark747 · « **Reply #41 on:** December 06, 2017, 09:35 AM »

I've had tremendous success in previous recon sales, probably because the items I bought (T12 drills, OF2000 routers) were discontinued, unsold stock. That being said, I think Festool should be embarrassed to have shipped that "reconditioned" CT (even assuming the damage to the hose garage was shipping-related).

Cheese · « **Reply #42 on:** December 06, 2017, 09:42 AM »

Quote from: Brice Burrell on December 06, 2017, 08:34 AM

I would not expect a tool that was 7 years old.

I didn't either...and then the MFK 700 arrived, It was manufactured 9 years ago. I do have to say though that it was in like-new condition, absolutely pristine. I've fired it up and used it for some edge routing and everything seems fine. I'm just amazed though how an item like this can remain in hiding for so long.

ChuckM · « **Reply #43 on:** December 06, 2017, 09:45 AM »

Quote from: promark747 on December 06, 2017, 09:35 AM

That being said, I think Festool should be embarrassed to have shipped that "reconditioned" CT (even assuming the damage to the hose garage was shipping-related).

A blow gun and an open space would have got rid of any dust issues (inside and out). Perhaps, this blowing task should be included as one of the mandatory steps in the preparation/checklist when the next recond. sale is organized.

Brice Burrell · « **Reply #44 on:** December 06, 2017, 10:00 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on December 06, 2017, 09:42 AM

I didn't either...and then the MFK 700 arrived, It was manufactured 9 years ago. I do have to say though that it was in like-new condition, absolutely pristine. I've fired it up and used it for some edge routing and everything seems fine. I'm just amazed though how an item like this can remain in hiding for so long.

I don't know what you paid for your 700, but it might have been pretty close the full retail price 9 years ago. That would certainly make me question the "deal" I got... Keep in mind the MFK (and CT vacs have) had updates/improvements in recent years. Getting a used tool with less features, and one year warranty, there better be a deep discount.

ChuckM · « **Reply #45 on:** December 06, 2017, 10:06 AM »

Quote from: Brice Burrell on December 06, 2017, 10:00 AM

I don't know what you paid for your 700, but it might have been pretty close the full retail price 9 years ago. That would certainly make me question the "deal" I got... Keep in mind the MFK (and CT vacs have) had updates/improvements in recent years. Getting a used tool with less features, and one year warranty, there better be a deep discount.

Very good point!

By default, with some exceptions, anything -- power or hand tools -- offered with less than 30% discount would not receive my attention or consideration. 50% or more would be my usual starting point. That sounds picky but don't forget that the seller got a good deal for using it (for 1 -5 years, say) and then getting back half of the price he or she paid. It could have cost more to the seller if it was a rental tool.

Cheese · « **Reply #46 on:** December 06, 2017, 10:20 AM »

Quote from: Brice Burrell on December 06, 2017, 10:00 AM

I don't know what you paid for your 700, but it might have been pretty close the full retail price 9 years ago. That would certainly make me question the "deal" I got...
Keep in mind the MFK (and CT vacs have) had updates/improvements in recent years. Getting a used tool with less features, and one year warranty, there better be a deep discount.

Hey Brice, you're probably right on the price issue also...I paid $424.

Just curious what the updates are? Was this discussed earlier on the FOG?

Brice Burrell · « **Reply #47 on:** December 06, 2017, 11:50 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on December 06, 2017, 10:20 AM

Hey Brice, you're probably right on the price issue also...I paid $424.

Just curious what the updates are? Was this discussed earlier on the FOG?

I just checked, the prices were $400 for the basic and $525 for the set in '09. I believe the bearing for the horizontal base was updated a couple of years ago.

antss · « **Reply #48 on:** December 06, 2017, 02:45 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on December 06, 2017, 09:42 AM

Quote from: Brice Burrell on December 06, 2017, 08:34 AM
I would not expect a tool that was 7 years old.

I didn't either...and then the MFK 700 arrived, It was manufactured 9 years ago. I do have to say though that it was in like-new condition, absolutely pristine. I've fired it up and used it for some edge routing and everything seems fine. I'm just amazed though how an item like this can remain in hiding for so long.

You know, even with the discount you paid more for that tool than it cost new 9 years ago.

Jurgen W · « **Reply #49 on:** December 06, 2017, 03:40 PM »

Well, after reading this post regarding Recon FT, I am kinda getting nervous as I am expecting my CT36 vacuum..... I sure hope it to be in better condition then what the picture showed I paid $567+tax. Thank you for the blue box screenshot that was posted, I do not see this either on my Mac or IPad. Will get you feedback on my opening the box.

Cheese · « **Reply #50 on:** December 06, 2017, 04:32 PM »

Quote from: antss on December 06, 2017, 02:45 PM

You know, even with the discount you paid more for that tool than it cost new 9 years ago.

I don’t want to hear about it...I’m just happy in my bubble.

To make things even sweeter, it came in an original Systainer that I had to swap out to the tune of $76.

ishmerc · « **Reply #51 on:** December 06, 2017, 05:30 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on December 06, 2017, 04:32 PM

Quote from: antss on December 06, 2017, 02:45 PM
You know, even with the discount you paid more for that tool than it cost new 9 years ago.

I don’t want to hear about it...I’m just happy in my bubble.

To make things even sweeter, it came in an original Systainer that I had to swap out to the tune of $76.

So did Festool take the 25% off the current price for the MFK700 or the 2008 price .

Brice Burrell · « **Reply #52 on:** December 06, 2017, 07:19 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on December 06, 2017, 04:32 PM

I don’t want to hear about it...I’m just happy in my bubble.

To make things even sweeter, it came in an original Systainer that I had to swap out to the tune of $76.

Yeah, I forgot about that upgrade too.

cghunt · « **Reply #53 on:** December 06, 2017, 08:47 PM »

To be clear once i opened box and noticed damage i contacted festool recon. They responded shortly with an apology and told me replacement parts would come my way. I buy many things online and on occasion receive broken items, (no big deal). My primary issue are 1. if some thing is considered a reconditioned product it should at very least reasonably appear that some care was taken to actually refurbish it (e.g. Not covered in grime) 2. The website implies the product will be in gently used condition or a discontinued product. ( ok, i have no problem with that). But a 7 year old product covered in saw dust which i can only assume has been in a production environment over the last 7 years hardly qualifies as gently used. I did ask festool recon their thoughts on this matter but have had no response. So my question is.. is the small discount worth it? Its hard to say ... would i attempt a recon sale again.. probably not..

antss · « **Reply #54 on:** December 06, 2017, 08:57 PM »

another question for those of you that braved the lines and participated in the Connect sale(s) -

would you have still bought that vacuum covered in dust ?

SRSemenza · « **Reply #55 on:** December 06, 2017, 08:57 PM »

Quote from: cghunt on December 06, 2017, 08:47 PM

To be clear once i opened box and noticed damage i contacted festool recon. They responded shortly with an apology and told me replacement parts would come my way. I buy many things online and on occasion receive broken items, (no big deal). My primary issue are 1. if some thing is considered a reconditioned product it should at very least reasonably appear that some care was taken to actually refurbish it (e.g. Not covered in grime) 2. The website implies the product will be in gently used condition or a discontinued product. ( ok, i have no problem with that). But a 7 year old product covered in saw dust which i can only assume has been in a production environment over the last 7 years hardly qualifies as gently used. I did ask festool recon their thoughts on this matter but have had no response. So my question is.. is the small discount worth it? Its hard to say ... would i attempt a recon sale again.. probably not..

Thanks for the clarification. That takes a bit of the guess work out for those replying to your post.

Seth

Jurgen W · « **Reply #56 on:** December 07, 2017, 05:12 PM »

Quote from: Jurgen W on December 06, 2017, 03:40 PM

Well, after reading this post regarding Recon FT, I am kinda getting nervous as I am expecting my CT36 vacuum..... I sure hope it to be in better condition then what the picture showed I paid $567+tax. Thank you for the blue box screenshot that was posted, I do not see this either on my Mac or IPad. Will get you feedback on my opening the box.

Just got my CT36. Good to report that it came complete and relatively “clean” however a little quality control, even on reconditioned tools wouldn’t hurt the brand of high end tools. Found some dust all over but for the price I am not worried and used the vacuum to clean the vacuum ironically. The date of manufacturing is stated as 05/14

eeeesh · « **Reply #57 on:** December 07, 2017, 07:01 PM »

Seeing what these two vacs looked like - what really is the difference between 'reconditioned' and 'used' other that one sounds better?

What did they do to the 'used' vac so that now it is a 'reconditioned' vac? A couple of words come to mind, like 'inspected' where they look at and see if everything is ok, but we know from the one Kapex purchase, they are not even doing that since it was shipped missing parts....

antss · « **Reply #58 on:** December 07, 2017, 09:09 PM »

My guess is replace whatever was broken on them internally like a switch , socket, turbine, ect...

What did the hoses look like ? Beat up or new ? Do they have the old ends or the new cleantec piece of junk ?

I think part of the issue here is that people have come to expect basically a "new" tool when buying a recon. Festool has seemingly sent out some new tools for some of these sales and manuf. like Dewalt, Makita, and Milwaukee routinely do that. The manufacturers have conditioned the market.

However..........................................the terms of this sale don't say that's what you'll get. So, you shouldn't expect it. Expect to get a used tool that is made 100% functional before it's sent to you. If you get a new domino with a metric scale , fine and dandy. But don't count on it.

Jurgen W · « **Reply #59 on:** December 08, 2017, 12:36 AM »

The CT36 dust collector came with the hose that looked brand new however both connector ends were definitely used there was a new hepa filter, bag and electric cord attachment also new. Other than that, the extractor was used, and I would say that Festool is definitely selling used items that has been inspected, and tested, definitely not cleaned

Personally when I hear the word “reconditioned” I usually think of tools that have been purchased, returned, perhaps within the period of warranty for reasons of dissatisfaction or malfunction and therefore the manufacturer takes it back do the repairs and sell it as such.
When a tool is 7 year old (as in a former post indicated) or as in my case 5/2014 that tells me it is “used” in the sense that it is definitely past warranty period.

I just wonder why Festool is dealing with this, I would think that there is just too much hassle dealing with this that potentially can affect their name..... It kinda did with the fact that they can do a better job sending clean used products.

Otherwise Happy with the purchase