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Author Topic: Surfix question...  (Read 26421 times)

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Offline adubeau

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Surfix question...
« on: May 27, 2012, 11:10 PM »
Can you apply Surfix on a  stain finishh or does the wood have to be left un-finished?

I mad my son a desk and would like to apply the indoor surfix to the top...

Festool weapons: ETS125, RO90, RO125, Dominio 500, Kepex, CT mini, CXS... and the list grows....

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Offline Festool USA

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2012, 11:59 AM »
It's not recommended to apply over stain.

Offline Reiska

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2012, 12:35 PM »
Any pointers to additional documentation on the oils that come with the Surfix Set?

The booklet that came with it was very true to Festool tradition of very minimal instructions on the usage of the tool... Nor is the video on youtube much more informative.
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline Festool USA

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2012, 12:56 PM »
What types of pointers are you looking for? I'll do my best to provide them.

The Surfix is designed to simplify the process of applying oil finished and the video shows the recommended steps to follow.

The oil is a type of linseed oil for those who want to know.


Offline RL

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2012, 01:11 PM »
I know that all the oils are solvent-free.

From Tools for Working Wood, "The oil is plain old linseed oil, with some modern driers to give you the look of a traditional finish, with the durability of a polymerizing oil finish, without the hazardous chemicals usually associated with finishing oils."

Here are the MSDS sheets.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/fs/pdf/SDB_One-step_ENG.pdf
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/fs/pdf/SDB_Heavy_Duty_ENG.pdf
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/fs/pdf/SDB_Outdoor_ENG.pdf.pdf

The last link is not currently working, but hopefully Joel will fix it soon.


Offline Festool USA

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2012, 01:16 PM »
The MSDS sheets are on our website on the corresponding product pages.

Heavy Duty Oil
One Step Oil
Outdoor Oil

Offline Reiska

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2012, 03:36 PM »
Well since I'm a n00b to finishing wood I could use answers to questions like: [embarassed]

- Can any of these oils be used for surfaces that have contact with food e.g. cutting boards, serving plates, etc. ?
- Does the One Step oil need a second coat & sanding like in the video or is it really a single step process of wipe on and let it dry?
- What are the suggested targets for use of each oil? i.e. is Heavy Duty only meant for stairs or could it work on say a table top or would it be overkill for a shelf? Is the Outdoor oil meant for teak furniture or deck oiling (probably not because of price...) or something totally different like fences or posts?
- Can any of them be used with stains - what will happen if you do? (since you mentioned that it's not suggested)
- Can one put lacquer on top of these oils for surface protection? (I'm thinking here my solid wood table project where the looks of the wood would benefit of some sort of oil before lacquering with boat lacquer to bring out the wood structure)
- Can you put wax on surfix oil treated wood? Or is it redundant with the chemicals already in the surfix oil?
- Will these oils leave a film on top of the wood or will they be sucked into the wood?
- What is the difference between white and green vlies?
- How long will the applicator sponge stay usable in the metal box? Will it store there for a day/week/month?
- What detergent should be used to wash the sponge before packing the surfix away for an extended period (>1 month) of time to keep the sponge usable? Or is it a use-once part?
- Do you need to clean the spray nozzle somehow before storage?
- How long will the oil stay usable after opening a bottle?
- Should one take special measures to extend the life of the product somehow? (like squeeze air out or inject carbon dioxide into the bottle before closing it?
- Can the oil be sprayed with a HVLP? Does this even make sense (I honestly don't know)?

I read through the MSDS sheets and I couldn't fathom answers to any of the above from them.

The video is clear enough of the process of application of the Heavy Duty and Outdoor oils at least.

I guess half of these questions are probably trivial to most of you but I'm doing finishing based on what it says on the back of a can and these cans don't have a whole lot of text on the back...  [unsure]
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline RL

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2012, 04:57 PM »
Some of your questions are answered in this pdf which Festool put out. I also seem to remember Timtool had some comments about the shelf life of the pads which were not that complimentary (IIRC). Sorry can't be of much help but I haven't used the surfix set.

http://www.festool.com.au/images/Current_Campaign/553_oilingwaxing.pdf


Offline zapdafish

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2012, 04:59 PM »
but arent you Finnish?  [big grin]


Well since I'm a n00b to finishing wood I could use answers to questions like: [embarassed]
CT22, TS55, Kapex, RO150, Domino, RS 2 E

Offline Festool USA

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2012, 07:48 PM »
Sorry if I came across the wrong way. I wasn't trying to imply that you were a novice. For that matter, I'm no finishing expert either compared to some of our members here.

Quote
- Can any of these oils be used for surfaces that have contact with food e.g. cutting boards, serving plates, etc. ?

The heavy duty oil is recommended for kitchen counters.

Quote
- Does the One Step oil need a second coat & sanding like in the video or is it really a single step process of wipe on and let it dry?

For the best results, the same steps should be completed for all of the oils.

Quote
- What are the suggested targets for use of each oil? i.e. is Heavy Duty only meant for stairs or could it work on say a table top or would it be overkill for a shelf? Is the
Outdoor oil meant for teak furniture or deck oiling (probably not because of price...) or something totally different like fences or posts?

I have three more documents that I will post here and later link on our website that will have recommended applications and may help to answer some of your questions.

Quote
- Can any of them be used with stains - what will happen if you do? (since you mentioned that it's not suggested)

I would not recommend that you use oils with stain. It's meant to be used on unfinished wood.

Quote
- Can one put lacquer on top of these oils for surface protection? (I'm thinking here my solid wood table project where the looks of the wood would benefit of some sort of oil before lacquering with boat lacquer to bring out the wood structure)
- Can you put wax on surfix oil treated wood? Or is it redundant with the chemicals already in the surfix oil?

I don't know how they would react chemically, so I'll need to get some advice from a colleague to answer this one confidently.

Quote
- Will these oils leave a film on top of the wood or will they be sucked into the wood?

There shouldn't be a film. They will be absorbed to some extent.

Quote
- What is the difference between white and green vlies?

The color.  [tongue] The green is more coarse and is made to work the oil into the surface. The white is more fine and polishes the surface.

Quote
- How long will the applicator sponge stay usable in the metal box? Will it store there for a day/week/month?

I will depend on environmental conditions and how saturated the sponge is. I would recommend putting it in a zip lock bag for extended storage. Other members may have additional tips to keep it from drying out. I would classify the box as temporary, short term storage since it's not air tight.

Quote
- What detergent should be used to wash the sponge before packing the surfix away for an extended period (>1 month) of time to keep the sponge usable? Or is it a use-once part?

You should be able to use soap and warm water to clean it. Linseed oil is similar to vegetable oil.

Quote
- Do you need to clean the spray nozzle somehow before storage?

There's a cap for the nozzle that should be used for storage. So, there shouldn't be a need to clean it.

Quote
- How long will the oil stay usable after opening a bottle?

I'll have to research this one. It says 5 years when unopened but I don't see the spec for after being opened.

Quote
- Should one take special measures to extend the life of the product somehow? (like squeeze air out or inject carbon dioxide into the bottle before closing it?

Just store in a cool, dry place.

Quote
- Can the oil be sprayed with a HVLP? Does this even make sense (I honestly don't know)?

It's designed for application with the Surfix applicator.

Quote
I guess half of these questions are probably trivial to most of you but I'm doing finishing based on what it says on the back of a can and these cans don't have a whole lot of text on the back...  [unsure]

I think they were well thought out questions and I'm sure they will help educate other people who are interested in the Surfix. Once I get the answers to the questions that I don't know, you will have ended up educating me too.


SEE ATTACHMENTS FOR INFO.

Offline RL

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2012, 08:01 PM »
Shane,

I would estimate that the oil is good for up to one year after opening. Tried and True is also a solvent-free linseed-based oil and it's good for one year after opening.

If you want to bring out the chatoyance in the wood before using a lacquer, a coat or two of shellac would be best. For sure you can use wax as a final step after oiling.

Richard.

Offline adubeau

  • Posts: 210
Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2012, 08:24 PM »

Thank you Shane...

I am still going to try it out.. see if I like it...

Festool weapons: ETS125, RO90, RO125, Dominio 500, Kepex, CT mini, CXS... and the list grows....

Offline Sometimewoodworker

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2012, 08:50 PM »
There is an interesting typo I think.
"The product is ready to use. Thinning and cleaning of tools with balsam plant thinner"
Unless the smart Germans have a new wonder wood and garden product ;)
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, HL 850, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
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Offline Kev

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2012, 08:58 PM »
Although the applicators aren't cheap, I honestly wouldn't plan on significant reuse.

I'd agree on a year or two of life in the oil after opening ... I'd want to be certain I was going to use it before I purchased on of the bulk containers.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2514
Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 03:53 PM »
It's good to know that the technical sheet says that the one-step oils is "sweat and saliva proof"  [eek] ;)!  I am looking forward to seeing some more reviews on this product -- the system looks very appealing. 

Scot

Offline Reiska

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2012, 04:37 PM »
Quote
Sorry if I came across the wrong way. I wasn't trying to imply that you were a novice. For that matter, I'm no finishing expert either compared to some of our members here.

I didn't even think that anything to that end was implied in your original post - any reference to my newbieness to finishing are entirely my own and (unfortunately) the fact of the matter.  [embarassed]

Most stuff I've built either has been painted with latex paints, boat lacquer or Pinotex Classic, normal cooking rapeseed oil or it has gone entirely unfinished. I only did my first non-natural oil wipe-on finish only last autumn with some trivets I made for Christmas gifts.
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline ScotF

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2012, 04:10 PM »
Do you know the approximate grit of the green and white Vlies and where they are positioned with the other Vlies pads? 

Thanks!

Offline Festool USA

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2012, 04:12 PM »
Scot,

There's not a grit rating provided, so I don't know. They're application specific and designed for the purpose of working the oil into the surface and then polishing it. It's green to white technology. [big grin]

Shane

Offline ScotF

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2012, 04:18 PM »
Scot,

There's not a grit rating provided, so I don't know. They're application specific and designed for the purpose of working the oil into the surface and then polishing it. It's green to white technology. [big grin]

Shane

Good one!  I suppose it keeps it simple.  Also, any plans to offer these pads in smaller diameters to fit the RO90 or the DTS sanders?  I supposed I could cut the sheet to fit, but it would be nice it they were supplied smaller too.  

Thanks,

Scot
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 04:38 PM by ScotF »

Offline Festool USA

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2012, 04:20 PM »
Good one!  I suppose it kees it simple.  Also, any plans to offer these pads in smaller diameters to fit the RO90 or the DTS sanders?  I supposed I could cut the sheet to fit, but it would be nice it they were supplied smaller too. 

I've not heard of any plans for additional pad sizes at this time.

Offline RL

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2012, 05:50 PM »
Do you know the approximate grit of the green and white Vlies and where they are positioned with the other Vlies pads? 

Thanks!

Scott, my experience with the Vlies pads suggests they are similar to steel wool, but much less abrasive. The green is probably similar to 0000. I've even used the white one to buff wax. I really like them. Slow down the rotex in geared mode to about 3-4 though.

Offline ScotF

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Re: Surfix question...
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2012, 01:55 PM »
Thanks, Richard.  I have experience with the traditional Vlies Festool has offered for years and I like the finish they leave -- they burnish the wood nicely.  Good tip on setting the speed...I personally need to get better at adjusting the speed -- I typically leave the dial at 6 and go at it, but agree that this is prbably not always the best approach.  I need to get my hands on some green and white to try them out...seems like the perfect solution for my next chair and dining det project. 

Scot