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Author Topic: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails  (Read 6927 times)

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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #60 on: May 01, 2017, 07:04 PM »
 [dead horse]
Scraps to Smiles.  To be continued.....  Stay Tuned.

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Offline CADru

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2017, 05:43 PM »
[dead horse]

Too funny... [big grin]  Is that... could it be... no wait a minute.... it is..., that's a smiley beating a dead horse! Not even breaking a sweat!

Thanks for that LOL after a challenging work day, HA!

Offline DrD

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #62 on: May 05, 2017, 09:36 AM »
@TylerC
[quoteI appreciate everyone contributing their findings on this. I’ve sent all of this over to HQ. As a marketing guy in the US, this level of detail on these issues is outside of my prevue, so I personally can’t offer any quick answers.][/quote]

It's been a week, are we going to hear a response from those to whom you sent this?  You also mentioned you would get the trainers to offer work-arounds/possible solutions - where are they?  I don't think this should be left alone, swept under the rug; there should be some resolution, some response, NOT silence from Festool.

DrD
Dr.D

Offline TylerC

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #63 on: May 05, 2017, 10:37 AM »
We've reached out to the OP directly to get him taken care of. The HQ quality department is also reaching out to him to get more information.

Offline DrD

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #64 on: May 05, 2017, 11:20 AM »
@TylerC

It is great you're in contact with the op, and he is being taken care of!  What about @Gman70?  What about other Festool users who experience the same issue? 

The information I'm requesting is for the rest of us, the FOG community, to know.  The op was not and is not the only user affected by this issue.  Since many of us have as our only source the mail order dealers, we can't take our mics/calipers with us when wanting another rail.  I doubt seriously that it is reasonable to ask Bob Marino or any other dealer to ship us a rail which measures 0.634 +/- 0.002".  It is really important that the community be made aware of the official Festool resolution/position regarding this issue.

Your posted approach of "... the original op has been taken care of..." is rather myopic, and does not serve the FOG community AT ALL.

DrD
Dr.D

Offline CADru

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2017, 09:50 PM »
UPDATE
What ever happened with CADru and the inconsistent 1400 guide rail? Well, this is a bit of a read but wanted to share my experience with those commenting and giving feedback to the OP.


@TylerC connected me with the Head of Quality at the Wendlingen plant in Germany to resolve the dimensional issue addressed with my "out of spec" 1400 guide rail. Festool Germany took an active role in understanding my concern/issues with this rail. I was impressed. Having the opportunity to communicate my concerns about a product directly with the Head of Quality for that manufacture really says something to me about a tool manufacturer. Many emails went back and forth with questions asked/answered.


The initial impression I was getting was that if I wanted an "accurate" cut at a certain length then use a single rail that length but, if I wanted to lower my standards (unacceptable) and produce an "inaccurate" cut then I should connect two shorter rails with the connector rod system. So Festool provides a way to connect two shorter rails... only if I want an "inaccurate" cut? hmmm... Then why even provide a way to connect two rails when the resulting cut is NOT accurate. I didn't get it.


I disagreed with the suggestion of using a longer rail if I required an accurate cut. Sure a single rail at the length of cut required is ideal but it's not possible for me to transport a 2700 safety to a site. Festool creates a rail connection system and transporting two 1400's in my rail bag safety is doable. Besides a 2700 (106") only leaves 10"/2 of starter/end rail OH for a 96" cut. I prefer 2800 (hence the connection of two 1400's) for ripping down 96" sheet goods. At the time I was working with 8' and 10' sheets of 3/8" PVC at different locations. My 1900 connected to the 1400 handled my 10' cutting requirement no problem.


All said and done the end result was a replacement rail from Festool. With a little mix up in the process Festool sent me a 2700 and then sent me the replacement 1400. Both the 2700 and the 1400 replacement rails are same as my other rails with regards to the rails track. These two replacement rails can be connected to all my other rails and my TS 55 tracks across the connection point to the joining rail with no issues. They are spot on dimension wise with my other existing rails as expected.


My objective was not to expect a replacement rail but, to address the rail inconsistency issue with Festool to help Festool sorta "grow" (I like to call it) and, if exists, identify a quality issue with manufacturing. I have not heard back from Christian in Germany as to the result of the 1400 rail in question. That's right Festool wanted the rail shipped back to Germany for quality checks in their lab. So they sent me a shipping label for me to send to their Lebanon USA facility. @TylerC then shipped the rail back to Germany for Christian.


I'm good in the rail department. And if I ever need to make a 39'-0" length cut in the field I'm ready. Just have to get a few more pairs of connector rods. [big grin]


Seriously though, thank you for all the feedback and interest.
A BIG thank you to @TylerC and Christian, from Germany, for taking the time to listen to their product end user and resolve the issue.


@antss @SRSemenza @Brice Burrell
@neilc @TSO Products @Cheese @Michael Kellough @Corwin @Holmz @Bob Marino @Svar @DrD
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 10:25 PM by CADru »

Offline antss

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #66 on: August 07, 2017, 08:48 PM »
And what of the internal discussion at Festool about quality control @TylerC ?

Has anyone looked into this, it's been a whole quarter since the discussion began.

Offline TylerC

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #67 on: August 07, 2017, 09:08 PM »
@antss The rail in question was sent to the Head of Quality at the plant in Wendlingen for review. To be honest, if there are changes to the manufacturing or QA process as a result, I highly doubt that that information would be announced publicly.

Offline antss

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #68 on: August 07, 2017, 09:39 PM »
So,    should customers still expect to have problems with their guide rails not mating up properly ? 

They received the info;  but you can't tell us if they did anything or even read the memo.   [doh]

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode about taking the reservation, but not holding the reservation.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 09:42 PM by antss »

Offline TylerC

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #69 on: August 07, 2017, 09:58 PM »
Keep in mind that North American guide rails are now being manufactured (including extrusion) in a different place than previous rails.

And while I appreciate any good Seinfeld reference, I don't know that it applies. I don't think it would be wise for a company to publicly post about the findings of every quality assurance complaint and if/what actions are being taken.

Serenity now! (Insanity later.)

Offline Gregor

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2017, 09:34 AM »
I don't think it would be wise for a company to publicly post about the findings of every quality assurance complaint and if/what actions are being taken.
Depends on if they feel like they need to hide reality from their customers.

Certainly the idea to be open about what goes/went wront induces fear about what will happen when we say x could get problem y, at times this can overshadow the long-term outcome of customers experiencing they said x could suffer from y, mine did but they fixed it free, great, especially compared to others who let me suffer from their mistakes as now that they have my money they don't care anymore.

A company that acknowledges shortcomings of the stuff they sell and demonstrate that they're not happy about them by both removing the issue from new products created and fixing the issues with the ones they already in existance (so past customers who brought them to where they are now are not left alone with the defects) gets my loyalty - one that hides away from what went wrong deserves neither that nor my money.

Compare Volkswagen with Toyota:
The first knew that some stuff will break under certain conditions (Polo motors freeze to death in winter in city use, certain gearboxes broke relieably every some ~40Kkm) but kept production running unchanged and left the already existing customers to pickup the fallout.
The latter learned that some stuff could possibly break (Prius water pumps had a small chance of starting to leak, as one example) and not only instantly changed production but replaced all pumps in existing vehicles at the next service for free.

Guess what car I drive now, after 20 years of looking at a certain logo on the wheel. We're all humans, we all make mistakes, in my view the important part is how we deal with them. In my over 30 years of private enterprise an open, no-bullshit approach to problems with the stuff I supply results in a positive outcome (in all of customer satisfaction, my and their bottom-line), so I stick to it and honor others that do too.

YMMV.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 09:46 AM by Gregor »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2017, 10:42 AM »

A company that acknowledges shortcomings of the stuff they sell and demonstrate that they're not happy about them by both removing the issue from new products created and fixing the issues with the ones they already in existance (so past customers who brought them to where they are now are not left alone with the defects) gets my loyalty...


This is the very basis of good customer satisfaction. Over the years I've had to create many "Corrective Action" reports when products or processes went awry. When you're dealing with customers such as IBM, Intel, and Texas Instrument among many others, those customers DEMAND a Corrective Action report. More importantly, the CA report has to be TIMELY, not something that's generated 6-9 months down the road.

The report identifies the problem/issues, it offers a short-term solution (maybe 100% inspection) and a long-term solution (maybe new tooling, tighter tolerances, or a different supplier), while also outlining what happens to the product in inventory and the product in the field. All of these items get tied back into an Engineering Change Order.

I see no reason why Festool shouldn't produce and release such a report and if the issue is wide spread, I think an asterisk with a short statement should be included in the Festool catalog in the Guide Rail section to prevent wide spread customer frustration.

It's not that difficult, you just have to be willing to "suck it up"

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2017, 02:36 PM »
"A company that acknowledges shortcomings of the stuff they sell and demonstrate that they're not happy about them by both removing the issue from new products created and fixing the issues with the ones they already in existence (so past customers who brought them to where they are now are not left alone with the defects) gets my loyalty..."

I had a similar issue with my Nova DVR-XP lathe. The display membrane had delaminated and made it difficult to read. When I contacted Teknatool about a replacement display and how much it would cost they informed me they would replace it for free. Took a while since the part came from overseas but in about 4 weeks I had a new display panel in my mailbox. A quick plug and play and I was back in business and the display was good as new. Don't know how long their warranty is and they never even asked me when I bought it but I told them it was at least 6 years ago. No sweat you'll get a new display they told me and they keep me informed of the progress of the order and when it arrived at the office here in the States they let me know when they dropped it in the mail. Return the old display? Nope, don't want it returned, hang on to it or toss it out.

That kind of service LONG after the sale has now made my drill press decision much easier. I'll be looking to pick up the Nova Voyager drill press later this year.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline JimH2

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #73 on: August 08, 2017, 02:54 PM »

I see no reason why Festool shouldn't produce and release such a report and if the issue is wide spread, I think an asterisk with a short statement should be included in the Festool catalog in the Guide Rail section to prevent wide spread customer frustration.

It's not that difficult, you just have to be willing to "suck it up"

I can see Corrective Action reports being made available for vendor to vendor, but never the customer. For a consumer to request this is completely ridiculous. Many people on FOG sharpshoot everything Festool does, so they don't need anything else to complain about. Sometimes when I look at the FOG to see the recent postings I am floored by those who want to know the inner workings of Festool. They have words for this when two people are involved: stalking and obsessed. No consumer needs to or has a right to know the inner workings of Festool. They make good products that work well and generally outperform other tool lines. Rarely there are small issues with some of their products, which is to be expected.

Offline LooseSox

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #74 on: August 08, 2017, 04:59 PM »

I see no reason why Festool shouldn't produce and release such a report and if the issue is wide spread, I think an asterisk with a short statement should be included in the Festool catalog in the Guide Rail section to prevent wide spread customer frustration.

It's not that difficult, you just have to be willing to "suck it up"

I can see Corrective Action reports being made available for vendor to vendor, but never the customer. For a consumer to request this is completely ridiculous. Many people on FOG sharpshoot everything Festool does, so they don't need anything else to complain about. Sometimes when I look at the FOG to see the recent postings I am floored by those who want to know the inner workings of Festool. They have words for this when two people are involved: stalking and obsessed. No consumer needs to or has a right to know the inner workings of Festool. They make good products that work well and generally outperform other tool lines. Rarely there are small issues with some of their products, which is to be expected.

Spot on. For a CA report to be made publicly available to the end user? You guys need to put the drugs away.

Yes, there may be issues with a product that appear more often than others (rails or kapex), but some of the posts I read basically saying festool should publicly apologise and redesign the product then replace with a new one for everyone that has purchased previously is straight up delusional.

Yes, festool make some awesome products. Yes, occasionally they fail. If you don't like the way they handle issues, stop buying their gear.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails
« Reply #75 on: August 08, 2017, 11:22 PM »
Well like it or not guys...the semiconductor industry does indeed conduct Corrective Action investigations in exactly the manner in which I discussed. That's real...been there, done that, wrote the report and I still had to face the customer (executioner) mano a mano. It's not that big of a deal, you're not turning state's evidence for crying out loud...you're only admitting that a manufacturing/processing problem has been identified and it may be deleterious to the customer's manufacturing process. Ya, humble pie will certainly be the foodstuff of the day but that goes away once you've ameliorated the customer's concerns. Once you've admitted there is a problem, and once you've outlined the corrective action you've taken it becomes a lot easier...like I said, when you're wrong... just suck it up...it's not so difficult.     [cool] [cool] [cool]
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 11:40 PM by Cheese »