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Author Topic: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?  (Read 2247 times)

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Offline TSO Products

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How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« on: August 29, 2017, 09:47 PM »
how can you identify a FESTOOL Guide Rail made in the US? - from one made in Europe?
How can you buy a US made guide rail and be sue that is what you're getting? - who stocks them now?

Hans
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Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

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Offline Svar

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2017, 10:07 PM »
If you bought your rail before today it was made in Europe. [big grin]

Online Cheese

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2017, 02:19 AM »
If you bought your rail before today it was made in Europe. [big grin]

Good answer...or maybe if you purchased it prior to  the last month, the rail would have been manufactured in Europe, since the newly created rail forming machine in Indiana is cranking out product daily.

But more to a point, I certainly hope some form of product demarcation has been implemented to prevent possible future confusion if fit/finish/interchangeability issues raise their head.

Offline Alex

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2017, 03:29 AM »
Why is it important to know where it has been made?

Offline Bob D.

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2017, 04:39 AM »
I would say because there could be slight differences between rails made on different machines.
Both may be within the manufacturing tolerances but still vary enough as to have alignment issues.

No two snowflakes are exactly alike, but they're all snowflakes.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Big G

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2017, 05:27 AM »
Easy, as it is to identify anything that is made in the USA, it will leak oil

Offline mrB

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2017, 09:09 AM »
Easy, as it is to identify anything that is made in the USA, it will leak oil

I clicked on this link to make basically the same joke  [big grin]  the thread title was too much of a set up  [tongue]
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Online Cheese

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2017, 09:31 AM »
Why is it important to know where it has been made?

What Bob D said... [smile]

It could be as simple as a Made in USA stamping. 

Offline Alex

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2017, 10:44 AM »
You guys really think tolerances could be that far off? Hmmm.

Online six-point socket II

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2017, 11:02 AM »
Hi.

If I was selling accessories to compliment these guide rails I would also make sure everything fits and accuracy is still spot on after there has been a change in production of said rails.

I suppose this is why Hans is asking about this?

Kind regards,
Oliver

Online Cheese

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2017, 12:55 PM »
Well I'm sure Festool isn't doing 100% inspection of all the rails they produce, they're probably using typical AQL charts which basically say "at the AQL risk level of your choice, and with "X" amount of received parts, you need to randomly select and sample "X" number of those parts. And of that number sampled, only "X" number can fail.

So inherent in the inspection process, it is known that some outliers will make it through inspection. Short of 100% inspection, it's just a risk everyone takes. Everyone tries to minimize the risks, that's the reason it's imperative to choose the correct AQL level. If there are problems in the field, a Quality Assurance group can/will change the AQL level or they may demand 100% inspection of critical dimensions...but 100% is soooooo expensive.

Besides, everything changes, the tools wear, the tooling wears, the composition of the material itself may change slightly, the process can have a hiccup...it all adds up in the end.

 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 12:58 PM by Cheese »

Offline TSO Products

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2017, 01:12 PM »
many good comments here - because we interface the guide rails with our GRS_16 family we want to verify that nothing changed that would give us concern. "Trust but verify . . ."
new tool, new manufacturing source, all ingredients that call for inspection that what we expect has not changed in  a way that can adversely affect function.

Unless we know the origin of the part we can't be sure what we are inspecting. Our customers have every right and reason toexpect us to do this homework.
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline antss

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2017, 06:58 PM »
Doesnt the rail's shipping box have the country of origin stenciled on it ?  [unsure]


Online Peter Halle

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2017, 07:22 PM »
If I remember the stuff I have read about Festool's production of guide rails in the US, availability will be later in the fall.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Svar

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2017, 07:44 PM »
You can determine it by measuring. For example, FS 1400/2 made in Europe is 1400 mm long, while the US made will be 55.1" long.  [big grin]
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 10:24 PM by Svar »

Offline Harvey

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2017, 10:03 PM »
My rails do have the country of origin printed on the shipping boxes.
Just a duffer

Offline Bohdan

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2017, 10:08 PM »
Why don't we wait for a problem to appear before we try to come up with a solution?  [popcorn]

Offline antss

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2017, 12:42 AM »
Why does there need to be a problem before questioning where a tool or accessory is produced ; or how to differentiate between factories ?


Online Cheese

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2017, 02:00 AM »
Why don't we wait for a problem to appear before we try to come up with a solution?  [popcorn]

Because at this point in time, the solution is extremely simple, far simpler than the task will ever become as we kick the can further and further down the road...date stamp or made in USA or revision level. These are absolutely conventional & effective methods to manage the current inventory status. 

Check out any current Festool manual, they all carry current rev levels...for this very same reason.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  [big grin]


Offline TSO Products

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2017, 10:26 PM »
-since this is the ASK FESTOOL section of the FOG, I was hoping to get a response from Lebanon.
Perhaps we can get an answer to this very simple question: has the first US-made FESTOOL rail been shipped to a dealer yet?

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline Festool USA

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2017, 10:43 AM »
I needed to track down an answer on this. Because we have some remaining inventory of the German-made guide rails, none of the US ones have started shipping yet.

You'll be able to identify whether you have a German or US guide rail in two ways:
1. The packaging will say either "Made in USA" or "Made in Germany".
2. The packaging will include either the US address in Lebanon, Indiana or the German address in Wendlingen.

I don't believe there will be any marking on the guide rails themselves.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2017, 11:09 AM »
I needed to track down an answer on this. Because we have some remaining inventory of the German-made guide rails, none of the US ones have started shipping yet.

You'll be able to identify whether you have a German or US guide rail in two ways:
1. The packaging will say either "Made in USA" or "Made in Germany".
2. The packaging will include either the US address in Lebanon, Indiana or the German address in Wendlingen.

I don't believe there will be any marking on the guide rails themselves.
- thanks much for clarifying - that will help us.
What is the first ship date to dealers from US production?

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Online Cheese

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2017, 11:43 AM »
The packaging will say either "Made in USA" or "Made in Germany".

I don't believe there will be any marking on the guide rails themselves.

Why not just have USA printed on the rail label? Seems pretty simple and pretty easy. You just need to order some new labels. [big grin]

Besides, after the packaging has been discarded, the USA label would still allow for positive identification for years to come and by then there will certainly be a worldly mix of rails in the US.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 03:46 PM by Cheese »

Offline Holmz

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2017, 06:22 PM »
You guys really think tolerances could be that far off? Hmmm.

They're becoming renowned for having lower tolerances.


Online Peter Halle

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2017, 07:24 PM »
You guys really think tolerances could be that far off? Hmmm.

They're becoming renowned for having lower tolerances.

Purely opinionated.

Peter Halle - Moderator
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 07:31 PM by Peter Halle »
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Holmz

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2017, 08:06 PM »
You're correct Peter - many countries have been exhibiting it, and my attempts at humour are usually pretty weak.

Offline rst

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Re: How to tell if a guide rail is made in the US or Europe?
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2017, 08:20 PM »
In ancient times, 15-20 years ago, , skilled machinists made the extrusion molds using extremely precise optics and precision machining to produce by hand, the molds used in the aluminum extruding process.  That process has been replaced (at the expense of those skilled machinists) by CNC machining process' that essentially produce the exactly same piece as many times as the the mold holds up to wear.  Do some pieces occasionally not meet specs...heck yah, just like the pieces you produce are not absolutely identical.  DOO DOO occurs...and Festool usually replaces those non conforming pieces with no fuss.  Not sure about you but I reside in the real world where despite the best effort of business sometimes crap occurs.  The real judgement of a business is how they react.