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Author Topic: Imperial Kapex Stand  (Read 4099 times)

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Offline ekalb

  • Posts: 13
Imperial Kapex Stand
« on: October 21, 2016, 12:01 PM »
When will the imperial Kapex stand will be available? I have been waiting to order it until this version is available.


thanks

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Online RobBob

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Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2016, 02:01 PM »
@Shane Holland Shane will know.

Online Shane Holland

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Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2016, 02:06 PM »
@Shane Holland Shane will know.

Shane Holland will not know.  [big grin]

I would guess that Festool USA has made a commitment at this point to convert most/all of their tools to imperial over time. That's just a hunch. Whether that will really happen or in what time frame, we will have to wait and see.

I personally think it would be in their best interests to choose a measurement system and go all in ASAP.

Edit: I personally think it would be in their best interests to offer tools with both units of measure or a dual scale. In lieu of that, pick a unit of measure and roll it out on all tools and accessories as quickly as possible. Having half and half is not the best for customers.

Shane
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 03:38 PM by Shane Holland »
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Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 399
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2016, 04:15 PM »
A better solution would be for the US to move to the Metric system like the rest of the world with the exception of (2) other countries (Liberia and Myanmar (Burma)).

Online Shane Holland

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Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2016, 04:22 PM »
A better solution would be for the US to move to the Metric system like the rest of the world with the exception of (2) other countries (Liberia and Myanmar (Burma)).

Completely agree. But. It's not so easy. And, what's worse is the longer it takes for us to conform the more difficult the switch will be, assuming it ever happens.

My money's on us being imperial forever.

Interesting to see the progress of converting for other countries. With the exception of Saint Lucia, the next most recent country to complete the adoption of metric was done before I was born. Maybe some of our Aussie friends might be able to reminisce on the conversion for them which completed in 1970.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication#Conversion_process
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Offline antss

  • Posts: 647
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2016, 05:04 PM »
I'm guessing "what's best for the customer" doesn't even factor into the equation on any decision for TTS.

Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2016, 05:23 PM »
I just bought the extensions to be sure I had them in metric. I won't go back to imperial if given the choice.

Offline ekalb

  • Posts: 13
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2016, 06:14 PM »
I started my Festool collection in June, which was probably the worst possible time to do so. I had made the mental commitment to do all my hobby work in metric and then came the imperial announcement. My ts55 is metric but I have been conscious to purchase everything in imperial since I read that the switch was coming. The ts55 scales don't matter much to me since I don't really use them that way, but swapping back on forth between metric and imperial is too much for my brain to keep track of.

I'd like to just stick with imperial. I'm guessing the kapex stand will swap over once current inventory is depleted. Start buying it up folks!!

Offline TylerC

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Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2016, 08:04 PM »
There's no definitive plan for this as of now. It could happen, but (unless someone is holding on to info that I'm not privy to) there's no final answer one way or another.

I'm guessing "what's best for the customer" doesn't even factor into the equation on any decision for TTS.

Gee, how nice. Enjoy your weekend.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7511
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2016, 12:33 AM »

Interesting to see the progress of converting for other countries. With the exception of Saint Lucia, the next most recent country to complete the adoption of metric was done before I was born. Maybe some of our Aussie friends might be able to reminisce on the conversion for them which completed in 1970.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication#Conversion_process

I still remember going through the change over while I was going to school and thinking that the metric system made it so easy it almost felt like cheating. My father, with an engineering background from the UK, embraced metric with both hands and he was approaching his 50's at the time of the switch.

There's still a few stubborn old relics here that can't make the change (or simply won't for their own peculiar reasons) and there's the odd imperial doodad still floating about.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2016, 12:57 AM »
There's no definitive plan for this as of now. It could happen, but (unless someone is holding on to info that I'm not privy to) there's no final answer one way or another.

This is the very reason I support Shane's observation 100%, Festool needs to offer imperial and metric graduations on all US tools, or lacking that company commitment, and it is a huge commitment, just pick a measurement method and then go forth at full speed. This lame duck approach does not help Festool inventory control or assuage the US consumers' angst.

Typical customer & Festool conversations:
Is the current TS 55 available in imperial or metric?.....I'll have to check current inventory, we have limited quantities available.
Can I order a TS 75 in metric?.....I think we're all sold out on that unit, I'll have to check to see if that item is even still available.
I just ordered an OF 1400, is that a metric unit?.....We no longer offer that tool in metric, possibly you could check with one of our over 200 distributors and find one that has the router available in metric.
And the beat goes on...

So...what brought me to this tirade?
This previous thread: Wherein on reply #354, @TylerC posts,
Question: The Kapex UG extensions are currently sold with metric scale. Will we see a change over to imperial?
Answer: Yes, this will eventually move to imperial as well. This change will likely happen within the next year.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/festool-is-(partially)-moving-to-imperial-in-north-america/60/

Yet, I'll repost the above answer "There's no definitive plan for this as of now. It could happen, but (unless someone is holding on to info that I'm not privy to) there's no final answer one way or another."

Wow...so...4 months later there is still not a clear vision of the Festool imperial/metric future, and as US consumers of Festool product, we're just asked to hang tight and wait for some form of divine intervention that will somehow lift the cloud bank that we've all been exposed to?

This is certainly not meant to be a rant against Tyler, unfortunately, he is just the messenger and I don't want to shoot him, however, I will take umbrage with management and ask them to share with the purchasers of their products, the very people that provide the revenue source to allow Festool to remain in business, the average hobbyist, the average professional, and the collector, they all want to hear firsthand, the Festool vision of the future. An official answer is not out of the realm of a reasonable reply and may actually border on being responsible for a company that owes so much for the continued support of their customer base with deep pockets...

Will that happen...time will tell.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2439
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2016, 02:33 AM »
@Shane Holland @Cheese @Kev

Maybe some of our Aussie friends might be able to reminisce on the conversion for them which completed in 1970.

A few comments -
1. By 1974, we had already 8 years earlier converted to a decimal currency so we had experienced a change over. Also we had imigration systems in the 1950s, 60s and 70s  that encouraged skilled workers from Europe, many of whom were already using metric systems.





2. The last time I used the Imperial System in a way that required 'heavy duty thinking' of fractions of an inch  was around 1974/5 assisting my landlord, who was a surveyor, to survey a tank farm site for a petrochemical firm. Maybe that's why that very same farm blew up In 1991!  [eek]



3. 1970 was my first year at teachers college, and I was to teach the metric system on and off for the next 35 years.

4. In the last 6 years I have worked in a timber yard and hardware. Some hardware items are still available in both imperial and metric. Today I assisted a customer looking for imperial bolts to repair a bed.

Older customers, say over 70, still often think in imperial measurements. Hence I carry a duel tape measure. There can be exceptions. A few years ago a very young apprentice asked for some 6 metre lengths of 4X2". I said that if he could give me a metric length then he should give me a metric dimension. His rather cheeky reply; "your an old bugger, you should know". [Please note that 'bugger' in Aussie slang is a term of indeerment.]

5. My father, who was a maintance carpenter at the Ford Motor Co., successfully converted to metric in 1970 by simply purchasing new metric rulers and tape measures and putting his imperial ones away in a drawer.

6. I was surprised by Festools USA's decision, but based on past 'discussions' even more surprised by the negative reaction by many NA FOG members.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 03:19 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
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Offline TylerC

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Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2016, 07:55 AM »
Typical customer & Festool conversations:
Is the current TS 55 available in imperial or metric?.....I'll have to check current inventory, we have limited quantities available.
Can I order a TS 75 in metric?.....I think we're all sold out on that unit, I'll have to check to see if that item is even still available.
I just ordered an OF 1400, is that a metric unit?.....We no longer offer that tool in metric, possibly you could check with one of our over 200 distributors and find one that has the router available in metric.

The metric and imperial tools have different product numbers. When speaking with dealers about stock availability of one or the other, using the product number is going to be the easiest and most accurate way to get the answer you're looking for. I can post all of the metric vs. imperial numbers of relevant tools if you'd like.

Offline TylerC

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Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2016, 08:38 AM »
So I want to add that I hear your frustration about the lack of clarity around the future of metric/imperial. After pages and pages of FOG posts about the imperial change, I get it.

The overly short and overly simplified answer for not having a clear rollout plan is that we want to see what happens as a result of changing a few tools before we change more of them. The imperial change could prove to be a massive mistake. It could prove to be the smartest thing that we ever did. We need to test the waters before diving into the deep end.

This morning I passed this thread along to senior management and reiterated your frustration. (For all I know, there is more of a plan than I’m aware of.) I’ll follow up with them once I’m back in the office on Monday.

(Also, I appreciate @Cheese pointing out that I’m just the messenger. It’s my job to stand in the line of fire, but I also act as Festool’s advocate for the FOG and try to make sure that your collective opinion is valued.)

Offline ekalb

  • Posts: 13
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2016, 10:32 AM »
Thanks for the reply Tyler (and others).


I'd be happy to jump in and buy the stand either way, but I don't want to the same thing that happened with my TS55 to happen to me again. It was a bit irritating to find out the imperial switch happened when it did (bought my TS55 in June) and that the solution was that I could send it back in and pay $75 for the conversion. It was still new in the box at that point.

I can't imagine my already short fused frustration if I go ahead and grab the metric stands and then experience the same thing again.

Hopefully, some clarity shines through soon.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 10:35 AM by ekalb »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 2796
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2016, 11:03 AM »
The overly short and overly simplified answer for not having a clear rollout plan is that we want to see what happens as a result of changing a few tools before we change more of them. The imperial change could prove to be a massive mistake. It could prove to be the smartest thing that we ever did. We need to test the waters before diving into the deep end.

Thanks @TylerC for the "simplified answer". That's the best answer you could possibly give because it's a truthful one.  [thumbs up]
I think everyone now has a better vision of the Festool imperial/metric road ahead. Some may not like it, but for me at least, I can now make more informed purchasing decisions.

I've been using the HKC for cutting 2X materials and 3/4" ply. I must say it's a joy to use and when I stack cut the ply, I just dial in another 3/4" of depth...simple.  [cool]   Now if I was doing the same task with my TS 55, I'd have to think a little longer and a little harder.

Offline Throwback7r

  • Posts: 291
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2016, 11:35 AM »
@Cheese You do know that most 3/4 ply wood is really 19mm right? I don't know how adding another 19 or even 20mm to the saw is any harder.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 2796
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2016, 11:52 AM »
@Cheese You do know that most 3/4 ply wood is really 19mm right? I don't know how adding another 19 or even 20mm to the saw is any harder.

Actually the ply I'm using is 3/4" thick, it ranges from .745 to .751. Incredible, you'd think it was baltic birch but it's just commodity stuff currently available from Menards. It also has the same tight thickness tolerance along the 8' edge. Sheet to sheet variation is only about .010".

Offline antss

  • Posts: 647
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2016, 01:18 PM »
TylerC - let me start by saying that I think you do a marvelous job.  One that I'm sure borders on dreadful sometimes, and is probably thankless from both your bosses and us customers at others.  My previous comment was not directed at you but rather to your masters.  Sorry if that didn't come across that way.  I know being the messenger stinks many times.

My point was and still is: It doesn't appear that your bosses at TTS have a customer centric philosophy, that's all.   And that's ok in the grand scheme of things.  It's their job to earn the shareholders the maximum return. 

Did they ask or survey existing customers about the scale change ?  The FOG ? Doesn't seem they did , and if so;  ignored the undercurrent that seems prevalent here.  Asking the base would have been customer focused. 

Instead - " The overly short and overly simplified answer for not having a clear rollout plan is that we want to see what happens as a result of changing a few tools before we change more of them. "
translated : we've decided to do what we think best for us and that's trying to sell a few more widgets to the folks we ignored last time around !  And we want you guys to bear the risk of our premise.

Does that sound like it was best for the customer ? Which group ?  Spun this way : Maybe "the customer" was asked and the imperial will excite a new crop of American customers to buy.  Maybe it will turn out to be really what the vast majority wanted from the get go ?  Good and wonderful.  But, why did it take nearly twenty years for TTS to come round to supplying tools with the native scales ?  Was that customer friendly for N.A. ?  And alienating the current faithful by charging them for their wanting to keep the standardization of their early loyalty ?  Definitely not customer friendly.  I suppose it all hinges on who the core customer really is in N.A. The masses that won't consider Festool with metric, or the current crowd round here that has embraced it.

Just illustrating my view not looking to rehash the metric / imperial debate.

TTS are by pretty much all accounts brilliant managers - but it's not because they have a customer first mentality.


Round and round it goes. It's certainly TTS' prerogative to run things as they feel fit, but if they think they are customer focused they're mistaken.  Successful, yes. But that's not what I'm discussing.  My local grocer will get in a product that I or my wife wants that's not currently stocked and he doesn't have to ask the mothership for permission and wait for a study by the quant jocks as to whether it will be profitable enough, or if the warehouse has enough space, or if Pat in data entry/ IT doesn't want to add a new SKU to the system.  It simply gets done.  Same at Nordstrom.  And they don't have a surcharge for the service or overprice the item in lieu of one just so they can say they went the xtra mile. 

That's customer centric service !  And they still turn a profit.




Offline ekalb

  • Posts: 13
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2017, 06:13 PM »
Any news on this yet?

You still have customers out there that are holding off making purchases for products like this until they know which direction festool is heading in regards to imperial/metric.

thanks


Offline Chance B

  • Posts: 20
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2017, 06:19 PM »
Ekalb.... Not exactly sure what you are asking, but the Kapex stand is now offered in both Imperial and Metric versions.

Offline ekalb

  • Posts: 13
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2017, 07:24 PM »
Interesting. I just saw it online. thanks for the info!

I was at my local dealer today and he said he had no news about when it would be offered in imperial. He has always been super resourceful with Festool info, so i took his word for it.

thanks again

Offline Chance B

  • Posts: 20
Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2017, 07:36 PM »
Ekalb... Glad it was helpful. I knew this info because I had actually been wanting the imperial stand to come out. I'm glad I waited because if finally came.

Offline TylerC

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Re: Imperial Kapex Stand
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2017, 07:46 AM »
Here are the numbers of the imperial Kapex UG stand:

Right (Right Ext. f Mobl. Base UG, Imp) : 201180
Left (Left Ext. f Mobl. Base UG, Imp) : 201181

(I just got back in the country and leave for two more nights tomorrow. If I don't spend some time with my wife this weekend, I won't be alive to answer any future FOG questions. Talk to y'all after the weekend.)