Author Topic: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues  (Read 6635 times)

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Offline adrian130980

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Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« on: January 29, 2014, 05:53 AM »
Hi

This is my first post on here

I have a kapex 120 mitre saw and the festool midi dust extractor hooked upto it

I find that it does not collect much dust, i have changed the bag, checked the line hose and all seems well

but when i cut dust is everywhere

there does not seem to be any visible damage etc

it works fine with my ts55 & 1400router

thanks

adrian

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2014, 06:56 AM »
First, welcome to the FOG.  Dust collection can vary based on the types of cuts and definitely improves with the use of the 36 mm hose.  If you are making quick cuts try to trigger the saw and let the CT come up to suction first before cutting.  A little experimentation should bring better results.

Peter
The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.

Offline JD2720

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2014, 07:17 AM »
Dust collection is very poor when making regular chop saw type cuts. That is if you make the cut by having the saw head in the rear position & just lowering the blade into the wood & then pulling the saw head out.

Dust collection is excellent if you pull the saw head out, lower it & then push the saw head back to make the cut.

Also using a 36mm dust hose greatly improves dust collection.

Offline dicktill

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2014, 09:42 AM »
Dust collection is very poor when making regular chop saw type cuts. That is if you make the cut by having the saw head in the rear position & just lowering the blade into the wood & then pulling the saw head out.

Dust collection is excellent if you pull the saw head out, lower it & then push the saw head back to make the cut.

Also using a 36mm dust hose greatly improves dust collection.

Thanks JD, that is good information to have! Did I also read somewhere that dust collection is worse with a zero clearance insert?

Regards, Dick

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2014, 11:49 AM »
Can you confirm that the black runner dust shroud is attached near the back of the blade?
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Online joiner1970

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Re:
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2014, 12:52 PM »
I just got a kapex and have found dust collection improves depending on your technique. I bought a shorter 36mm hose which helps but certain cuts still spray dust all over the place. If you pull out plunge and then push forward steadily then extraction is good. This is my usual technique anyway I've always used but I find I have to go a little slower to get most of the dust

Offline adrian130980

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2014, 04:00 PM »
hi

thanks for all the replies,

yes i have the dust collection rubber collector on

I will look into a shorter larger diameter hose, to be honest a little disappointed at the thought of having to buy another hose making this one redundant

thanks

I report back after the changes made

adrian

Online joiner1970

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Re:
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2014, 04:18 PM »
Do what I did get the universal cleaning set. Comes with 3.5m 36mm hose which you cut down shorter and a cleaning set all in a sys 5. Around £95 festool code 497702

Online GarryMartin

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2014, 04:20 PM »
Before you go off and buy a new hose, post a photo of your current setup, cleaned of dust, then cut something using the method noted above (i.e. not a chop cut) and post a photo of what dust gets left behind and the material that you cut. That might give us some idea of what the problem could be and we might be able to point you in the right direction.

Offline adrian130980

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 03:18 AM »
Hi

I will over the weekend do a photo/video of the cuts

i have bought the 36mm hose so when thats here i will see if it makes a large difference

Thanks for the input

adrian

Online Peter Parfitt

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2014, 08:07 AM »


Thanks JD, that is good information to have! Did I also read somewhere that dust collection is worse with a zero clearance insert?

Regards, Dick

I have two Zero Clearance inserts on the Kapex 120 - one under the stock being cut and one (technically two) at the back attached to the sliding rear fences.

The one underneath has no effect on dust collection.

The one at the back does have an effect when the dust shroud is distorted by it as the saw is moved to the rear during a cut. Despite this I find that dust collection with the Kapex is amazing. I do have a short length of 36 mm hose between the Kapex and extractor - 27 mm hose is nowhere near as good.

I hope the picture below (of a trenching cut at an angle) is sufficient to show my setup.

Peter
Kapex 120, OF 2200, OF1400, TS55, TS55R, CMS-TS55R, CMS-OF, PSC420, Domino 500 and 700, MFT3, Rotex 90, Rotex 150, CTL26, 1400 & 2700 Guide Rails plus Veritas Parf Dogs, Planes and honing guide

Offline dicktill

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 10:38 AM »
Thanks JD, that is good information to have! Did I also read somewhere that dust collection is worse with a zero clearance insert?

Regards, Dick

I have two Zero Clearance inserts on the Kapex 120 - one under the stock being cut and one (technically two) at the back attached to the sliding rear fences.

The one underneath has no effect on dust collection.

The one at the back does have an effect when the dust shroud is distorted by it as the saw is moved to the rear during a cut. Despite this I find that dust collection with the Kapex is amazing. I do have a short length of 36 mm hose between the Kapex and extractor - 27 mm hose is nowhere near as good.

I hope the picture below (of a trenching cut at an angle) is sufficient to show my setup.

Peter

Thanks Peter. I understand the zero clearance insert on the bottom, and the ones on the fences. I don't quite understand what you're cutting in the photo, the small rectangular piece in the foreground, or the larger flat piece with all the marks below/behind it. Are they attached to each other?

Regards, Dick

Online joiner1970

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Re:
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2014, 11:08 AM »
Dick, looks to me like Peter is trenching/cutting tenons. To do that you need a spacer to space the work peice off the fence.

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2014, 12:17 PM »
Yes Dick, Joiner is right - spacer at the back for a trenching cut otherwise it does not have a flat bottom.

Peter
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Offline dicktill

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2014, 12:58 PM »
Dick, looks to me like Peter is trenching/cutting tenons. To do that you need a spacer to space the work peice off the fence.

Yes Dick, Joiner is right - spacer at the back for a trenching cut otherwise it does not have a flat bottom.

Peter

Thanks Joiner & Peter. Took me awhile (quite awhile actually, duh) to figure out what you were talking about, but I finally get it. And so my education continues.  : )

Meanwhile, back to the dust collection discussion ...

Regards, Dick

Offline adrian130980

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2014, 04:55 PM »
Hi Peter,

thanks for the picture and the idea of the zero clearance...will defiantly be copying that idea, funnily enough i just bought a new set where your zero clearance goes and now have to shelve them for your idea!

but what i think i have just noticed is that i think i am missing a part....!

I am missing i think a part called the Dust extraction attachment which goes before the rubber dust collector

it seems to have been snapped off.! I now recall when restoring my house the builder borrowing my saw for an hour and noticing some plastic bits later! grr

I think it shows in the picture

I will call axminster to source replacements!

thanks

adrian

* pdf111.pdf (1444.3 kB - downloaded 130 times.)

Offline adrian130980

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Test Done....New 36mm Hose attached etc
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2014, 05:30 AM »
Hi again

I received the new 36mm festool hose today and thought i'd share the results

I did the following cuts,

after using original hose 27mm,

with new 36mm hose but full length

and then finally 36mm hose but a metre shortened.

I am really impressed with the results and very surprised also what a difference a larger but shorter hose has on the dust collection




« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 04:34 PM by adrian130980 »

Online GarryMartin

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Re: Test Done....New 36mm Hose attached etc
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2014, 12:35 PM »
I did the following cuts,

after using original hose 27mm,

with new 36mm hose but full length

and then finally 36mm hose but a metre shortened.

The first and second photos are identical...  [blink]

Offline Acrobat

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2014, 08:36 PM »
Yeah I don't see too much difference there either?

I'm interest to figure in the previous post what "plastic" bits missing in front of the boot you're talking about? Or am I misunderstanding you? ???
My Festool addiction fed currently by: Kapex 120, TS55R, DF500 & Domino accessories set, Rotex 125, ETS 150/3, DTS400, C12, Ti15 Impact Driver, Midi vac, Surefix Oiling/waxing Kit, OF1010 Router, Kapex 120
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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2014, 03:01 AM »
Adrian's two photographs are not identical (unless he changed them after the two comments that followed). Just look at the amount of dust on the Kapex and its bench in the first one compared to the second.

Peter
Kapex 120, OF 2200, OF1400, TS55, TS55R, CMS-TS55R, CMS-OF, PSC420, Domino 500 and 700, MFT3, Rotex 90, Rotex 150, CTL26, 1400 & 2700 Guide Rails plus Veritas Parf Dogs, Planes and honing guide

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2014, 10:52 AM »
I recall that the pics had been the same at first.


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Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2014, 10:57 AM »
If you find that the dust collection degrades, clean the blade. Had issues recently and it was just a dirty blade. There was build up behind the teeth. I believe this was causing the dust to be strewn in all directions instead of back into the extraction stream.

Tom

Offline Jason White

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2014, 07:50 PM »
Make sure to buy and use a 36mm hose for the Kapex (you're probably using the standard 27mm hose that came with your vacuum).  The bigger hose makes a HUGE difference!

- Jason 

Hi

This is my first post on here

I have a kapex 120 mitre saw and the festool midi dust extractor hooked upto it

I find that it does not collect much dust, i have changed the bag, checked the line hose and all seems well

but when i cut dust is everywhere

there does not seem to be any visible damage etc

it works fine with my ts55 & 1400router

thanks

adrian
- Jason White

Online joiner1970

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Re: Re: Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2014, 03:49 AM »
Make sure to buy and use a 36mm hose for the Kapex (you're probably using the standard 27mm hose that came with your vacuum).  The bigger hose makes a HUGE difference!

- Jason 

Hi

This is my first post on here

I have a kapex 120 mitre saw and the festool midi dust extractor hooked upto it

I find that it does not collect much dust, i have changed the bag, checked the line hose and all seems well

but when i cut dust is everywhere

there does not seem to be any visible damage etc

it works fine with my ts55 & 1400router

thanks

adrian

A bit late Jason , if you read the thread he did buy the 36mm hose and it solved the problem

Offline darita

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2014, 10:08 AM »

but what i think i have just noticed is that i think i am missing a part....!

I am missing i think a part called the Dust extraction attachment which goes before the rubber dust collector





[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

Really would like to know what part you are referring to here?

Offline Acrobat

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2014, 11:24 PM »
me too, what is it that you think you were/are missing?

Looking at the photos earlier it still shows there's been quite a bit of dust thrown out. If this is the best result then frankly it's a little disappointing.
Sorry Peter P, I disagree with your assessment on dust collection for the Kapex,it aint brilliant passable yes, brilliant no.
My own Kapex tosses dust out at least as much, if not more, and I've had it checked recently by Festool service, and they reckon its standard to have it like that.
Apart from that, the saw is a.o.k.

 
My Festool addiction fed currently by: Kapex 120, TS55R, DF500 & Domino accessories set, Rotex 125, ETS 150/3, DTS400, C12, Ti15 Impact Driver, Midi vac, Surefix Oiling/waxing Kit, OF1010 Router, Kapex 120
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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2014, 04:46 AM »

Sorry Peter P, I disagree with your assessment on dust collection for the Kapex,it aint brilliant passable yes, brilliant no.
My own Kapex tosses dust out at least as much, if not more, and I've had it checked recently by Festool service, and they reckon its standard to have it like that.
Apart from that, the saw is a.o.k.

 

I know that people judge it on their own setup - some have 27mm rather than 36mm hoses, some do not have a HPLV extractor. I have had a number of previous saws for cross cut work and they all produced tons of dust compared to the Kapex. I accept that some of the larger chips might escape collection but the fine dust gets taken away. I tested the Kapex in my workshop dust study and it produced under a tenth of the UK figure for permanent exposure at a work place.

I would love to know what particular rival saws better the Kapex at dust collection in the sub micron range but I doubt whether anyone has made a comparison using accurate dust measuring detectors.

Peter
Kapex 120, OF 2200, OF1400, TS55, TS55R, CMS-TS55R, CMS-OF, PSC420, Domino 500 and 700, MFT3, Rotex 90, Rotex 150, CTL26, 1400 & 2700 Guide Rails plus Veritas Parf Dogs, Planes and honing guide

Offline Acrobat

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2014, 05:42 PM »
Hi Peter, Festools "thing" if you like is they take dust collection to a new level and yes with the Kapex I would think it does compared to other makes I've used, and the Kapex in general is far better than previous saws I've owned and used so it's a leap ahead in that regard, just some of the opinions I've read on it's dust collection to me seem to be rather overstated and certainly it's nothing like the collection rate from Festools sanders or Domino's where all gets taken away. But I guess the nature of the saw unless radically re-designed provides a major hurdle to eliminate dust completely.
I have all the correct hoses and vacs but am still disappointed with it's dust collection, probably my own fault in taking reviews too literally and having a too high an expectation of it and Festool gear in general. (Another example is the poor table saw "LA fence" alignment for the CMS, it certainly lets the whole kit down. Awkward and fiddly to get square to the blade). It would help to give a more critical review on items that need attention-improvement, but I enjoy your videos and learn something new from each one, keep them going. Very informative.

Peter, on a different note,  I watched your demo on cutting on the cms saw table using two push sticks, that looked slow, awkward as heck and could be a tad dangerous. I suggest trying out the Grr-ripper push blocks, so much safer, I love them and highly recommend them for work like that, and no I'm not an employee of their maker:-) I'm sure once you try them you'll toss out the old sticks!
My Festool addiction fed currently by: Kapex 120, TS55R, DF500 & Domino accessories set, Rotex 125, ETS 150/3, DTS400, C12, Ti15 Impact Driver, Midi vac, Surefix Oiling/waxing Kit, OF1010 Router, Kapex 120
Wish List? Carvex420??, Belt sander with frame and planer with frame.
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Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2014, 09:42 PM »
Acrobat, try cleaning your blade. Cleaning mine helped the dust collection. I recently finished one job where we had to clean the blade everyday.

Tom
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 07:46 AM by tjbnwi »

Offline Acrobat

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Re: Kapex 120 Dust collection issues
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2014, 10:25 PM »
I did read that somewhere in this thread I think, I will at some stage give the blade a thorough clean, but since the dust problem has existed from day 1, I doubt whether that will give me any major improvement. Thanks for the tip tho', I'll give it a go eventually.

cheers
My Festool addiction fed currently by: Kapex 120, TS55R, DF500 & Domino accessories set, Rotex 125, ETS 150/3, DTS400, C12, Ti15 Impact Driver, Midi vac, Surefix Oiling/waxing Kit, OF1010 Router, Kapex 120
Wish List? Carvex420??, Belt sander with frame and planer with frame.
Uncle Festool