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Author Topic: Looking for good service  (Read 15666 times)

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Offline RonWen

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2009, 09:58 AM »
Sorry, I didn't realize that he was serious.


it's also cheaper because I don't have to pay sales tax. 

This statement means."I don 't pay sales tax because  I am not completely honest on my tax return"   [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared]

FWIW you are liable for sales tax on all purchasers. If you evade sales tax this should not be something to boast about.

Gentlemen please be careful, the last time this discussion came up it caused an uproar for the previous forum administrator to deal with. It might be best left alone.   

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Offline Mirko

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2009, 11:37 AM »
I am the dealer whom Mirko has been working with to get his tools back in perfect condition.

His parts were ordered through Festool one week ago and will be at my shop on Tuesday.  Festool recently started a Canadian service center and like many things we have some bugs to work out. The Ottawa service center has simplified servicing the Festool line up here in Canada.

When a tool is in need of repair and must go to the service center I send my customers a replacement tool. I don't care how much it costs and how long they have it. The most important thing is they can continue to earn money while their tools are being repaired. Currently, I have Rotex's out as loaners and also TS 55's.

I also make house calls and will rob parts from my personal tools to get a customer out of a jam.

Mirko's request for a spring plate replacement kit was dealt with promptly as I had it in stock and it was simply a matter of getting one to him. I am in transition right now with inventory spread out between my new store and old shop. The spring plate kits were at my personal shop on Friday when Mirko stopped in and I have them now at the store. He will pick one up on Tuesday when he picks up the rest of his parts.

Mirko and I never discussed loaner tools if his vac needed maintenance and had to be shipped to Ottawa. The issue was whether or not it was worth spending $80 shipping a vac to Ottawa or just ordering $30 in parts. We opted to order parts and deal with it locally.

I pride myself on customer support and service and go to great length to ensure my customers are happy. I carry an inventory of common parts such as spring plates and brushes so customers don't have to wait. Unfortunately, I did not have any spare sets of wheels and TS saw base plates.

To be honest, his order went in to Festool immediately after we confirmed the part numbers. The clip for the Long Life bag was a stumper and been difficult to track down a proper part number.

Dan Clermont





Dan Don't forget all those parts were ordered on the understanding that I am paying for them... Its a choice...  pay for shipping costs... or the cost of the part.

Mirko

Offline Dan Clermont

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2009, 12:32 PM »
Hi Mirko

You have not been invoiced for the parts. I know you would gladly pay for them.

Dan Clermont
Canadian Festool Dealer and User!!!
https://www.ultimatetools.ca/
604.291.9663

Offline Inner10

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2009, 02:13 PM »
Quote
its the method set up for Canadians to deal with repairs, that I was not happy with.

That alone hinders my lust to purchase festool tools that may require servicing...I'm use to dropping stuff off at Hilti and picking it up 3 days later and at the sametime restocking on fastners.

It sounds like festool is so small in Canada they either don't feel the need provide instant support, or it woudn't be cost effective.

Where in Ottawa is the service centre anyway? 

From my point of view if the only centre is in Ottawa then it should go like this :

You should be able to drop tools off at your dealer.
Dealer should be responsible for packing it up and shipping it out.
Festool should cover shipping costs for express delivery there and back.
Assuming they have a half decent service centre you would have your gear back in a week.

That is what I would concider a good level of service and fair...I don't feel that a dealer should be responsible for loaning his demo stock for that week though, unless Festool provides loaner tools.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2009, 02:28 PM »
I am fortunate that, when I need something serviced it leaves on a monday and comes back on a thursday.  I guess it helps when you live in the same state.

I guess it all boils down to how bad your dealer wants your repeat buisness.

Online Brice Burrell

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2009, 03:08 PM »
From my point of view if the only centre is in Ottawa then it should go like this :

You should be able to drop tools off at your dealer.
Dealer should be responsible for packing it up and shipping it out.
Festool should cover shipping costs for express delivery there and back.
Assuming they have a half decent service centre you would have your gear back in a week.

That is what I would concider a good level of service and fair...I don't feel that a dealer should be responsible for loaning his demo stock for that week though, unless Festool provides loaner tools.


I have to disagree, I don't think Festool should be responsible for the expense of shipping to maintain one's tools.

That alone hinders my lust to purchase festool tools that may require servicing...I'm use to dropping stuff off at Hilti and picking it up 3 days later and at the sametime restocking on fastners.....


I do agree here, shipping tools for repair needs to be factored into the buying decision. With professional use it's just a matter of time before tools need to be serviced and this is an area where Festool can't match the larger tool companies' local service centers.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Inner10

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2009, 03:16 PM »
Quote
I have to disagree, I don't think Festool should be responsible for the expense of shipping to maintain one's tools.

Brice,

I appologise I was refering to warrenty covered work, not maintenance after warrenty peroid.

Online Brice Burrell

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2009, 04:36 PM »
Quote
I have to disagree, I don't think Festool should be responsible for the expense of shipping to maintain one's tools.

Brice,

I appologise I was refering to warrenty covered work, not maintenance after warrenty peroid.

I'm talking about maintenance regardless if the tool is still under warranty or not. I don't know how old Mirko's tool are but it sounds like most of his issues are maintenance related.

I'm not sure but it sounds like he'd like the process to be smoother, for me at least the very few repair parts I've needed were taken care of by Festool or my dealer quickly and easily. I far as I'm concerned there isn't a problem here in the States, up north I don't know.     
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Inner10

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2009, 05:03 PM »
Quote
I'm talking about maintenance regardless if the tool is still under warranty or not. I don't know how old Mirko's tool are but it sounds like most of his issues are maintenance related.

I'm of the different opinion that paying a premium for service includes maintenance coverage.  Heck as long as my Hiltis are under warrenty they service them free, and also provide a free clean and lube at anytime even if there isn't a problem, I would expect a similar level of service from Festool, not the attitude of "if something on it breaks you need to pay to send it accross the country".

Have a look at a map, Vancouver to Ottawa is a long trip, and shipping 2X vacumes and a Kapax would be very expensive.


Offline RonWen

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2009, 05:12 PM »
Quote
I have to disagree, I don't think Festool should be responsible for the expense of shipping to maintain one's tools.
[/b]
Brice,

I appologise I was refering to warrenty covered work, not maintenance after warrenty peroid.

I'm talking about maintenance regardless if the tool is still under warranty or not. I don't know how old Mirko's tool are but it sounds like most of his issues are maintenance related.

I'm not sure but it sounds like he'd like the process to be smoother, for me at least the very few repair parts I've needed were taken care of by Festool or my dealer quickly and easily. I far as I'm concerned there isn't a problem here in the States, up north I don't know.    

I totally disagree with that one -- The customer shouldn't have to subsidise Festool's choice of service center locations.  If the tool is under warranty it should totally be Festool's responsibility and expense to get it corrected.  When I buy Ridgid tools at HD, if there is a problem (lifetime warranty) I simply drop the tool at the nearest HD and they handle it from there.   We are after all, talking about Festool premium tools.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 05:15 PM by RonWen »

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2009, 05:43 PM »

I totally disagree with that one -- The customer shouldn't have to subsidise Festool's choice of service center locations.  If the tool is under warranty it should totally be Festool's responsibility and expense to get it corrected.  When I buy Ridgid tools at HD, if there is a problem (lifetime warranty) I simply drop the tool at the nearest HD and they handle it from there.   We are after all, talking about Festool premium tools.

That is true.  But what I have found is that it can take months (yes months) for Home Depot to respond.  I am certain that, even with shipping tools a long way, it does not take Festool nearly that long to fix a tool.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline jvsteenb

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2009, 05:47 PM »
Personally I don't mind paying for the shipping, especially if the item is out of warranty or if the servicable parts are wear-and-tear items.
Tools will wear if you use them, no big deal. I don't expect a sawblade to be sharpened under warranty, and in my opinion, the same goes for a lot of other parts as well. Premature wear is another ballgame, and I would expect my dealer to step up for me when this occurs.

It's just that I like the dealer to take the hassle out of the whole servicing process, regardless of who pays for the parts and/or shipping in the end.
My dealers ( actually I frequent two Festool dealers ) do just that. They know I'm capable of servicing tools myself, and order parts whenever shipping a tool back and forth isn't required.  When I'm in a pinch I needn't be without a tool, for they'll lend me one. Then again, they know I won't ask if it isn't necessary - these things go both ways.

That's what I consider decent service. I definately need it too, for over here the local Festool subsidiary isn't really keen on dealing with mere end-users, if you catch my drift. Really great guys that will go to all lengths if you meet them at a tradeshow, but apparently in day-to-day business dealing with end-users doesn't fit in the company policy - so be it.


You guys at the other side of the pond face a somewhat different situation, as it seems. Festool dealers few and far between (compared to my situation at least) and apparently a slightly different culture regarding service issues.

But then again apparently there's a good deal ( no pun intended ) of Festool dealers that seem to be willing to walk the extra mile and even a couple beyond that to keep their customers happy, and when even Festool USA's CEO steps in to iron things out, that's kinda special. I may be wrong, but somehow I don't expect  HILTI USA's CEO to do just that :D

All in all I think most professional users have reason enough to be happy with the way Festool is in touch with their customerbase. Infrastructural limitations apply, but given enough time (say 5 to 10 years ?) I wouldn't be surprised if people would begin to quote "Festool" next to "Hilti" or "Caterpillar" as a reference for top-of-the-line service.


Just my take....


Regards,

Job

TS55, OF1010, RO150, RTS400, PS300, T15+3, CTL22E, CMS-TS55+Basis5A (OF1010), MFT/3, MFS400/700, FS800-1080-1400-1900, Centrotec-SYS 09, DF 500 full set, some accessories :)

Offline RonWen

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2009, 06:11 PM »

I totally disagree with that one -- The customer shouldn't have to subsidise Festool's choice of service center locations.  If the tool is under warranty it should totally be Festool's responsibility and expense to get it corrected.  When I buy Ridgid tools at HD, if there is a problem (lifetime warranty) I simply drop the tool at the nearest HD and they handle it from there.   We are after all, talking about Festool premium tools.

That is true.  But what I have found is that it can take months (yes months) for Home Depot to respond.  I am certain that, even with shipping tools a long way, it does not take Festool nearly that long to fix a tool.

There are no doubt differences in various HD locations and how they are managed.  My (small) HD seems to be well run, I know most everyone by first name which I think helps with response.  I'd be more inclined to think your several month delay was in the "Ridgid loop".  I've only sent a battery drill in -- dropped off on a Tuesday and I got a drill with brand new batteries back on the 2nd Thursday (9 days).  That may well have been the exceptional case. 
At any rate, I believe Festool has an obligation to absorb all charges associated to warranty repair.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2009, 06:31 PM »
Quote
I'm talking about maintenance regardless if the tool is still under warranty or not. I don't know how old Mirko's tool are but it sounds like most of his issues are maintenance related.

I'm of the different opinion that paying a premium for service includes maintenance coverage.  Heck as long as my Hiltis are under warrenty they service them free, and also provide a free clean and lube at anytime even if there isn't a problem, I would expect a similar level of service from Festool, not the attitude of "if something on it breaks you need to pay to send it accross the country".

Have a look at a map, Vancouver to Ottawa is a long trip, and shipping 2X vacumes and a Kapax would be very expensive.



I for one, am not shipping a CT just to have a wheel/brake fixed, send me the parts I will do it.

For the first year, there is no charge for shipping either way, the last two years you pay to get it there, they pay to ship it back.

I have only had a problem with one tool, my RAS 115, they fixed it once, still did not seem right so they replaced it.  Now it works better than ever.

I don't expect Festool to pay to replace wearing parts, even if it happens under the warannty period.  That is the end users responsibility.

I usually feel bad bringing up a complaint or issue about a tool, like the right laser on my Kapex.  Like somone said earlier, you don't see bosch or dewalt or makita or milwaukee or whoever, going to the lengths that Festool does.

I use my tools all day, sometimes under adverse conditions and they just keep going.  I know sometimes something will happen and maybe I will have a failure.  I am totally confident they will take care of me.  Now if it comes to user error, I would not feel right taking advantage of a warannty when it was my fault to begin with.

I also believe some people have the inheriant nature to  about something no matter what, maybe even before they go through the right channels.

Kudos to all the dealers and guys at Festool that jump in and make sure we (their customers) are happy.  

Offline RonWen

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2009, 07:03 PM »
Quote
I'm talking about maintenance regardless if the tool is still under warranty or not. I don't know how old Mirko's tool are but it sounds like most of his issues are maintenance related.

I'm of the different opinion that paying a premium for service includes maintenance coverage.  Heck as long as my Hiltis are under warrenty they service them free, and also provide a free clean and lube at anytime even if there isn't a problem, I would expect a similar level of service from Festool, not the attitude of "if something on it breaks you need to pay to send it accross the country".

Have a look at a map, Vancouver to Ottawa is a long trip, and shipping 2X vacumes and a Kapax would be very expensive.



I for one, am not shipping a CT just to have a wheel/brake fixed, send me the parts I will do it.

For the first year, there is no charge for shipping either way, the last two years you pay to get it there, they pay to ship it back.

I have only had a problem with one tool, my RAS 115, they fixed it once, still did not seem right so they replaced it.  Now it works better than ever.

I don't expect Festool to pay to replace wearing parts, even if it happens under the warannty period.  That is the end users responsibility.

I usually feel bad bringing up a complaint or issue about a tool, like the right laser on my Kapex.  Like somone said earlier, you don't see bosch or dewalt or makita or milwaukee or whoever, going to the lengths that Festool does.

I use my tools all day, sometimes under adverse conditions and they just keep going.  I know sometimes something will happen and maybe I will have a failure.  I am totally confident they will take care of me.  Now if it comes to user error, I would not feel right taking advantage of a warannty when it was my fault to begin with.

I also believe some people have the inheriant nature to  about something no matter what, maybe even before they go through the right channels.

Kudos to all the dealers and guys at Festool that jump in and make sure we (their customers) are happy.  

Excellent points!

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2009, 07:05 PM »
Darcy,

Thank you for your post.  I was typing, saved my draft and it disappeared.

So here I go again.  I hate these types of threads because they elevate blood pressure and generally accomplish nothing.  For those people out there who don't pay attention to their owners manuals and other paperwork that come in the plastic boxes with their tools because it has been written here that the manuals aren't well written, I'll offer the following so that you don't have to risk a paper cut.  From the Festool USA website regarding warranties (look MA no paper):

Quote
1.  Warranty

FESTOOL'S THREE YEAR WARRANTY

Festool offers a 3 year limited warranty, one of the longest in the industry. This warranty is valid on the pre condition that the tool is used and operated in compliance with the Festool operating instructions. Festool warrants that the specified tool will be free from defects in materials and workmanship for a term of 3 years from the date of purchase.

TERMS & CONDITIONS

You are entitled to a free extended limited warranty (1 year + 2 years = 3 Years) for your Festool power tool. Festool is responsible for all shipping costs during the first year of the warranty. During the second and third year of the warranty the customer is responsible for shipping the tool to Festool. Festool will pay for return shipping to the customer using UPS Ground Service. All warranty service is valid 3 years from the date of purchase on your receipt or invoice.

Excluded from the coverage under this warranty are: normal wear and tear, damages caused by misuse, abuse, or neglect; damage caused by anything other than defects in material and workmanship. This warranty does not apply to accessory items such as circular saw blades, drill bits, router bits, jigsaw blades, sanding belts, and grinding wheels. Also excluded are "wearing parts," such as carbon brushes, lamellas of air tools, rubber collars and seals, sanding discs and pads, batteries, and Festool gear (hats and t shirts).

The obligations of Festool in its sole discretion under this warranty shall be limited to repair or replacement or a refund of the purchase price for any Festool portable power tool that is found to have a defect in materials or workmanship during the warranty period. FESTOOL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR SPECIAL DAMAGES REGARDLESS OF THE THEORY OF LAW ON WHICH THE CLAIM IS BASED . ALL WARRANTIES IMPLIED BY STATE LAW, INCLUDING THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE HEREBY LIMITED TO THE DURATION OF THREE YEARS.

Some states in the U.S. and some Canadian provinces do not allow the limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitation may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights that vary from state to state in the U.S. and from province to province in Canada.

With the exception of any warranties implied by state or province law as limited above, the foregoing express limited warranty is exclusive and in lieu of all other warranties, guarantees, agreements, and similar obligations of Festool. Festool makes no other warranty, express or implied, for Festool portable power tools. No agent, representative, distributor, dealer, or employee of Festool has the authority to increase or otherwise change the obligations or limitations of this warranty.

2.  I read the stuff above after buying the tool and don't like what I read:

FESTOOL'S 30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE

We are so confident that you will thoroughly enjoy our tools, that we offer a 30 day money back guarantee. If you are not completely satisfied, your full purchase price will be refunded, excluding all freight charges.

WARRANTY DISCLAIMER

Festool reserves the right to make changes or improvements on its products without incurring an additional obligation to make corresponding changes or improvements to products previously manufactured or sold. Festool reserves the right to discontinue products at any time without notice. All illustrations and photographs displayed in this catalog are the property of Festool and shall not be duplicated or reproduced without the express written consent of Festool.

3.  How do I get my tools serviced:

Repairs

Download and print the repair order form using the link below.

Repair Order Form
Power tools requiring replacement or repair are to be returned after calling our service department toll-free at 800-554-8741. To ensure better customer service, we?d like to offer you a repair form which you can use each time you send us tools for repair. Please send the form with the tool and as much information as possible. Among other things you can choose an option authorizing us to do a repair for up to $125 without quoting on it. This way we don?t have to bother you with phone calls and can service your tool faster.

Festool is responsible for all shipping costs during the first year of the warranty. During the second and third year of the warranty the customer is responsible for shipping the tool to Festool. Festool will pay for return shipping to the customer using UPS Ground Service. All warranty is valid 3 years from the date of purchase on your receipt or invoice.

SUGGESTION:  Hey Festool.  There are people here who appear to be in the market for an expanded warranty program or a maintenance plan for their tools.  They are a great money maker.  Just go into any store and the cashiers will be glad to sell you one.  Lots of profit.  Based on the price of the tools.

After reading all the posts I have to sit on my fence post and ask what more could have been done?  The customer's needs are being addressed.  The dealer has been involved.  The manufacturer has been involved.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I provide service work for people just like the posters on this forum.  I have had three call backs in 9 years.  I have run across 2 people who could not be satisfied no matter what.  I did what I could to satisfy them and when that wasn't possible I screwed myself.  I can at least look myself in the mirror and respect the guy I see.  But am I going to replace the hinges in the cabinet 5 years later for free?  Would you?  There are realistic expectations and unrealistic.  That is why it is important to read.

Peter



Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2009, 07:18 PM »
Peter, I provide a 5 year workmanship guarantee on all projects that I do completely, kitchens, baths, roofs, etc.

3 weeks ago I went out and replace 3 pieces of soffet on a porch ceiling of a barn, that blew off in a wind storm.

I did that work over 3 years ago, I had 40.00 in soffet, 45 minutes in work and refused their offer of payment.

Guess what?  Just signed a 12k window job with them, why?  Because they know they don't have to worry about any of the work I do.  Makes them feel comfortable, confident, and extreamly happy about spending money with me.

I stop back at jobs after 30 days, 6 months, 1 year and then every year after that, just to check up on things.  You know what that gets me?  Lots more work.  Providing a quality job, with quality service gets you all the work and references you can handle.  Way better than mass advertising. 

I will bend over backwards to care of a problem with one of my customers, I will however, not fix your towel bar you ripped off when you were going at in the bathroom and needed something to hang on to!! [cool]

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2009, 07:34 PM »
Darcy,

You illustrated my point exactly.  You will go the extra mile to make the customer happy.  But even you have self imposed limits.  That's a major part of what I was trying to say.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Inner10

  • Posts: 184
Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2009, 11:24 PM »
Peter, excellent point.  If the items in question are in fact in the "+2" year catagorie I guess the issue is that anywhere but Ottawa, Canada is a lousy place to have your festool tools break or otherwise require service.

Quote
I usually feel bad bringing up a complaint or issue about a tool, like the right laser on my Kapex.

I often feel the same way, I have the attitude of throw it out buy a new one and call it a day...but then again I encourage my clients to bring up my tiny errors and make little changes to my systems so that I can make them happy and have my work as close to perfect as possible because thats what gets me repeat business.  If I were Festool I would be on the laser issue like eggs on toast.

Quote
Guess what?  Just signed a 12k window job with them, why?  Because they know they don't have to worry about any of the work I do.  Makes them feel comfortable, confident, and extreamly happy about spending money with me.

Impressive!  My warrentys vary from 1 year to 5 year depending on the system and the components.  In most cases I do a follow up call at 3 or 4 weeks, then another at 4-5 months.  Sometimes I have a days worth of programming to do, other times I get a thank you its perfect.  But half the time they ask for upgrades which gets me more business.  Its incredible how powerful one phone call can be to stem both a happy client and additional business.