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Author Topic: Looking for good service  (Read 15663 times)

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Offline Mirko

  • Posts: 394
Looking for good service
« on: October 31, 2009, 04:14 PM »
Hello Festool,

I own over 20 grand worth of Festools that I use for commercial use, I rely on these tools.

Problem is I have to call customer service to have these items fixed, then I am expected to ship these tools across the country to have them looked at and fixed.

I would like to deal with the dealer I purchased them from and thats it. I think thats fair who's with me?

Problems:

Two ct33 vacs need new rear wheels
One CT hose hook broken
Both TS 55 & TS 75 need new bases due to pre mature ware
One long life bag needs a new clip closer thingy
Mini Vac needs new wheels and brake
Kapex needs update kit for scraping problem

I have been back and forth with my dealer over these issues for months now and its wasting my time.
When I repaired a 3rd ct 33 I just bought the parts and put them on myself, not to much of a problem but I'm out the cost of the parts. (new rear wheels and switch)

Mirko


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Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 04:36 PM »
My dealer has always told me, if I need to send a tool back for service that I can't live without, I can use the store demo ones.

I have had the breaks on my CT22 break, just called Festool told them the part # I needed and I had the parts the next day, took 10 minutes to replace.

I would lean on your dealer, if I were you.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 07:32 PM »
Mirko,

Glad to see you back posting here - I've always enjoyed your knowledgeable posts.  When I had a problem with my CT-22 that was still under warranty, I called Festool and they sent me the parts.  Almost everyone here who has issues with the Kapex has had the parts sent to them to rectify the scraping issues.  My bet is if you call them they will try to help you.

Again, welcome back.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Steve-CO

  • Posts: 787
Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 07:37 PM »


I would like to deal with the dealer I purchased them from and thats it. I think thats fair who's with me?



I've never run into another tool company that handles repairs that way.  Not sure this would be real practical. If some one abuses their tools, (I'm not saying this is the case for you, just throwing out an example) why should a dealer need to get involved? Also, I buy most of my tools over the internet, how would that work?  Maybe some extra level of service could be provided for pros or those that have the large investment that you have.  I'm not sure what exactly that would look like though.  I'd also be willing to bet that when the end user handles the shipping it would get taken care much more timely than if a 3rd party gets involved.  Returning tools is a PITA, I'm not sure there's a way around it.

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 07:46 PM »
I am happy to help customers with their maintenance issues and I suspect most dealers are also.

Festool's service group is also happy to help customers with their maintenance issues.

I think it really depends on your relationship with your dealer. Are they a trusted partner or just a vendor.


Tom
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Offline Mirko

  • Posts: 394
Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 07:49 PM »
Thanks for the welcome Peter,

I did speak with service, (suggested by my dealer)  but it seems sending the tool to Ottawa is the only option right now... In Canada that is.
I am not sending the two vacs across the country to fix 30 dollar wheels.

Mirko

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5508
Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 07:49 PM »
I would like to deal with the dealer I purchased them from and thats it. I think thats fair who's with me?

I'm with you, not that it matters much since I'm in Europe, but because here, it's the standard way. With ANY tool we buy from ANY brand, if there's a problem, the dealer where we purchased the item is the first place to go. We take the tools to them, they will handle shipping and dealing with the manufacturer, and give us a call when we can pick up the repaired item at the store.

Steve-co, for me it's really hard to understand your viewpoint. I think the dealers should always be the first place to go to. They have the connections and the supply lines.

Offline Mirko

  • Posts: 394
Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2009, 07:54 PM »
Alex,

Thats what I'm trying to say here, if we are paying 3 times what the average tool costs, then the service I'm after should be automatic.

Mirko

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5508
Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2009, 07:59 PM »
Thats what I'm trying to say here, if we are paying 3 times what the average tool costs, then the service I'm after should be automatic.

Most certainly. Festool always pride themselves on their good service to partially justify the higher cost of their tools, but if you're in the situation you are right now, Mirko, then I can't call that good service.

Offline Steve-CO

  • Posts: 787
Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2009, 08:07 PM »
I would like to deal with the dealer I purchased them from and thats it. I think thats fair who's with me?

I'm with you, not that it matters much since I'm in Europe, but because here, it's the standard way. With ANY tool we buy from ANY brand, if there's a problem, the dealer where we purchased the item is the first place to go. We take the tools to them, they will handle shipping and dealing with the manufacturer, and give us a call when we can pick up the repaired item at the store.

Steve-co, for me it's really hard to understand your viewpoint. I think the dealers should always be the first place to go to. They have the connections and the supply lines.


For me the only time I would contact the dealer is if I'm not getting any satisfaction from the company.  The dealer doesn't fix anything, they can help facilitate issues that aren't being addressed, why get someone else involved who won't add "value" if not needed.  With Festool we have direct connections with service (who are very responsive), why go anywhere else?  I can see where he's coming from, not wanting to have to deal with it, but it is what it is and there are certain processes/procedures that need to be followed.  I may be off, but that's just my $.02

Maybe dealers need to handle minor repairs, it doesn't make a lot of sense to ship a big vacuum across the country to replace a $20-$40 part, there's always room for improvement in any process, we'll see if Festool has an idea that makes sense to them fiscally and to the end users.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 08:17 PM by Steve-CO »

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2009, 08:12 PM »
Mirko,

Of course I'm not in Canada, but I was under the impression that Festool USA also handled Canada - more like Festool North America.  It is a weekend.  Perhaps you will have a different answer on Monday.

But in the meantime, there are many of us - myself included who could benefit from your posting here.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Sometimewoodworker

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2009, 11:07 PM »


For me the only time I would contact the dealer is if I'm not getting any satisfaction from the company.  The dealer doesn't fix anything, they can help facilitate issues that aren't being addressed, why get someone else involved who won't add "value" if not needed.  With Festool we have direct connections with service (who are very responsive), why go anywhere else?  I can see where he's coming from, not wanting to have to deal with it, but it is what it is and there are certain processes/procedures that need to be followed.  I may be off, but that's just my $.02


One reason and maybe one of the most important reasons Festools are not discounted is to give dealers a good profit on sales. With the profit comes responsibility. One of those is to have people, or at least a person, who know the tools, another is to take care of after sales problems.  They have had their "value" and should provide the service implied. You should not need to go direct to Festool and if you do because the dealer is too laze or incompetent then the dealer should loose their dealership.
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
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Offline Steve-CO

  • Posts: 787
Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2009, 11:52 PM »
After sales problems is one thing, normal wear is something else.  Maybe if they're within warranty the dealer should handle, if outside then go through the company.  Be serious about the dealers, half of them, mainly the chains, don't know squat about the tools.  The ones that hang out here are clearly the exception.

Offline jvsteenb

  • Posts: 363
Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2009, 01:31 AM »
Regardless of warranty issues, over here a dealer is expected to take the hassle out of service requests. It's one of the things that make a good dealer stand out.
It's also a reasonably efficient way to funnel down the service requests to the company's service department - rather deal with 500 dealers then with 50000 customers.
If a dealer doesn't handle these issues well enough, you pick another one.
But I do believe that's a bit easier over here, for in a 10 mile radius from where I live, there are at least 15 Festool dealers....

Regards,

Job
TS55, OF1010, RO150, RTS400, PS300, T15+3, CTL22E, CMS-TS55+Basis5A (OF1010), MFT/3, MFS400/700, FS800-1080-1400-1900, Centrotec-SYS 09, DF 500 full set, some accessories :)

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 538
Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2009, 06:39 AM »
In the UK the 'contract' made when one buys any product (Festool or other) is with the dealer, and it is up to them to put things right whilst the product is under warranty.

Of course they don't really want the hassle of having to box up defective items and pay for the shipping back to the manufacturer, but that's tough; it's their responsibility.

So when any shop says "You need to call the manufacturer to get this fixed" I remind them politely of their legal responsibilities.

Outside warranty it's a different set of rules, but I'm sure a decent dealer would welcome the foot fall in his shop and the chance to make a good impression.

I've never had cause to call on Festool's warranty, but I'm confident my (excellent) local dealer (Kernow Fixings) would be only too happy to help without me having to twist his arm.
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline Christian Oltzscher

  • Festool Employee.
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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2009, 12:43 PM »
Update:

We sent a PM to Mirko on Saturday.
Mirko's dealer got in touch with us Saturday night.
Service department will look into it on Monday morning.

Christian

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2009, 01:55 PM »
If anybody feels that customer service is a lost art, look no further than Festool here in North America to be proven wrong!

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Jesse Cloud

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2009, 02:16 PM »
I can see how this can be a serious issue for pros.  Being a hobbyist, I can just about always wait for parts to ship from Festool, but if I were doing this to make a living, I would be a little nervous.

Not sure what the solution is.  I took a DeWalt tool to the local company store.  It took them a week to look at it.  They determined that the part I said was broke really was broke.  They had to order the part.  Took the part a week to get to them.  Took them another week to get back to my tool.  Then it took me a few days to be able to get away and drive downtown to pick it up.  Darn near a month for something I could have fixed myself in a few minutes.

I have been pleased with Festool corporate service.  One time, the part I needed had to be ordered from Germany, but every other encounter with service has been smooth and effective.  The local Festool dealer is Woodcraft.  They are good folks, but I wouldn't want them working on my tools.

It might be useful if we could get a statement from Festool on exactly what we should expect from dealers in the way of service (if anything).

Offline RonWen

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2009, 03:01 PM »
What dollar amount would you suggest?  I have a little over $9,000 in Festools, would I wait until getting to $20,000?  A Festool customer is a Festool customer even if only one purchase.  With the premium cost should come premium service.


I would like to deal with the dealer I purchased them from and thats it. I think thats fair who's with me?

I've never run into another tool company that handles repairs that way.  Not sure this would be real practical. If some one abuses their tools, (I'm not saying this is the case for you, just throwing out an example) why should a dealer need to get involved? Also, I buy most of my tools over the internet, how would that work?  Maybe some extra level of service could be provided for pros or those that have the large investment that you have.  I'm not sure what exactly that would look like though.  I'd also be willing to bet that when the end user handles the shipping it would get taken care much more timely than if a 3rd party gets involved.  Returning tools is a PITA, I'm not sure there's a way around it.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 05:06 PM by RonWen »

Offline Charimon

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2009, 05:07 PM »
I think festool USA has a unique situation concerning repair service and heavy power users. 

1  They are a Boutique tool Seller in North America.

    1.1  They sell in small quantities through a very regulated dealer network
    1.2  They service what they sell through, I think, one service center
   
2.  They sell High end tools that in practice need much less service
   
    2.1  they make a tool that is fairly robust and engineered to handle the rigors of heavy daily use 

    2.2   I am guessing that most of the Service they preform is  Initial quality issues and end user screw ups/abuse,  I am guessing that they get very few tools still in warranty that are basically worn out 

    2.2  Most owners and do not subject  their Festools to rigorius daily use, think the treatment that the average Hilti product recives,  they instead tend to pamper them and care for their investment.

3.  Most Festool dealers are not equipped to service power users  who routinely wear out repair items (switches, bases, retaining knobs....  like Mirko's  issues.   because they dont have clients who are running TS 55's 6 hours a day 6 days a week in a production environment
     3.1  I think Festool would love to have this issue come up more often, because that would mean a market penetration that is much deeper than they have now.
     3.2   It is an issue because it is Rare for a client to use his tools to the point where he is Finding out their weak areas  (the CT 33's rear wheels).

4.  Festool USA has this site  where owners can come and get answers from the president of the company and find results to their concerns and the company can continue to improve its service as well.

Thanks Craig

 
"The existence of the flame thrower proves that at one time, somewhere, somebody said, " You Know, There's a group of people over there that I'd like to set on fire right now but they're too far away."

Offline RonWen

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2009, 05:31 PM »
I have to say that I am extremely happy with my Festool purchases.  I buy over the intranet to avoid driving 2-1/2 hours to a Festool (Rockler) dealer and it's also cheaper because I don't have to pay sales tax.  So I guess in most any situation that arises (for me) I'll have to pack my tool up & ship it back -- which since I am an amateur (not earning from the tools) will be OK as long as it's a reasonable turn-around time.  The good thing as has been said, the tools are high quality & don't need much attention.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2009, 06:23 PM »
After reading all that has been posted in this thread several things stick out in my mind:

1.  Festool in Canada is different than it is here in the United States partially because until 6 or so months ago there was only one dealer in Canada if I am not mistaken.  How things get / got handled is different and may become even more different in the future than what we have here in the US or in other places around the globe.  Comparing one to another geographical area and how things get handled is like comparing imaginary apples and oranges - fruitless.

2.  Festool USA is interested in their customers and addressing issues whether the owner has one tool or one hundred tools.

3.  Festool does monitor this forum and has held true to their claims on how they would use the forum for the betterment of their tool users.

4.  Included with every power tool that I have purchased was an owners manual.  And in that owners manual there is a section that describes how to get service.  At the training class we talked about this briefly and it was pointed out that the number for service is on a label on each power tool so that if there is a need for service or questions it is nice and easy to find.

5.  Festool USA finds this forum and customer service important enough that the CEO takes his personal time to monitor and post here when he feels appropriate.  I don't know about the others here, but I sure haven't seen a post on a forum or on the internet from the head of DeWalt, Bosch, Makita, Fein ...

As I said in an earlier post, Mirko is a professional cabinet maker who posted here often previously and a search of his posts will offer a lot of knowledge.  None of this is addressed to / at him.  His posting in my mind really just brought forward how fortunate we are here in the US versus other countries because each Festool operation is different and reflective of the people who make it happen. Case in point - look at how many people in other countries come here to ask advice because it is not readily available where they live.

Just my opinion,

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Inner10

  • Posts: 184
Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2009, 10:11 PM »
Mirko,

Just so that I understand the situation are you saying that you dealt with a Canadian Festool dealer and he is telling you you must ship your products to Ottawa to have them repaired?  Did you buy them from a location in Ottawa (or Brockville which I think is the closest)?

It sounds rather absurd, if a dealer is selling a product and making a profit off of it he/she is then responsible partially for the support of the product, a dealer should provide a value added service of some sort.  I only contact the manufacturer if I find the dealer is not properly supporting the product....then I find a new supplier.



Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2009, 12:29 AM »
Mirko:

I may be premature, but it seems that "DA MAN" in North America took care of everything and there is no more reason to quibble.

This is, among other things, what sets Festool apart from the others and why I am, personally, happy to represent them...


Tom
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Offline Mirko

  • Posts: 394
Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2009, 01:20 AM »
I would like everyone to know that Christian at Festool asked to speak with me tomorrow.. so I look forward to that.
Second, this is NOT a dealer problem, its the method set up for Canadians to deal with repairs, that I was not happy with.

Inner10,

I live and bought them in Vancouver and would have to ship to Ottawa.

Mirko

Offline Dan Clermont

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2009, 03:05 AM »
I am the dealer whom Mirko has been working with to get his tools back in perfect condition.

His parts were ordered through Festool one week ago and will be at my shop on Tuesday.  Festool recently started a Canadian service center and like many things we have some bugs to work out. The Ottawa service center has simplified servicing the Festool line up here in Canada.

When a tool is in need of repair and must go to the service center I send my customers a replacement tool. I don't care how much it costs and how long they have it. The most important thing is they can continue to earn money while their tools are being repaired. Currently, I have Rotex's out as loaners and also TS 55's.

I also make house calls and will rob parts from my personal tools to get a customer out of a jam.

Mirko's request for a spring plate replacement kit was dealt with promptly as I had it in stock and it was simply a matter of getting one to him. I am in transition right now with inventory spread out between my new store and old shop. The spring plate kits were at my personal shop on Friday when Mirko stopped in and I have them now at the store. He will pick one up on Tuesday when he picks up the rest of his parts.

Mirko and I never discussed loaner tools if his vac needed maintenance and had to be shipped to Ottawa. The issue was whether or not it was worth spending $80 shipping a vac to Ottawa or just ordering $30 in parts. We opted to order parts and deal with it locally.

I pride myself on customer support and service and go to great length to ensure my customers are happy. I carry an inventory of common parts such as spring plates and brushes so customers don't have to wait. Unfortunately, I did not have any spare sets of wheels and TS saw base plates.

To be honest, his order went in to Festool immediately after we confirmed the part numbers. The clip for the Long Life bag was a stumper and been difficult to track down a proper part number.

Dan Clermont


Canadian Festool Dealer and User!!!
https://www.ultimatetools.ca/
604.291.9663

Offline Sometimewoodworker

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2009, 06:10 AM »
it's also cheaper because I don't have to pay sales tax. 

This statement means."I don 't pay sales tax because  I am not completely honest on my tax return"   [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared]

FWIW you are liable for sales tax on all purchasers. If you evade sales tax this should not be something to boast about.
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
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Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2009, 06:36 AM »
it's also cheaper because I don't have to pay sales tax. 

This statement means."I don 't pay sales tax because  I am not completely honest on my tax return"   [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared]

FWIW you are liable for sales tax on all purchasers. If you evade sales tax this should not be something to boast about.
Of course you are correct Jerome.  [sad]

But, I wonder how many of us do the correct thing.   [scratch chin]
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline RonWen

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2009, 09:14 AM »
You are hilarious!! You have a bright future in either politics or comedy.

it's also cheaper because I don't have to pay sales tax.  

This statement means."I don 't pay sales tax because  I am not completely honest on my tax return"   [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared]

FWIW you are liable for sales tax on all purchasers. If you evade sales tax this should not be something to boast about.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 09:31 AM by RonWen »

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Looking for good service
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2009, 09:39 AM »
it's also cheaper because I don't have to pay sales tax. 

This statement means."I don 't pay sales tax because  I am not completely honest on my tax return"   [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared]

FWIW you are liable for sales tax on all purchasers. If you evade sales tax this should not be something to boast about.

Gentlemen please be careful, the last time this discussion came up it caused an uproar for the previous forum administrator to deal with. It might be best left alone.   
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.