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Author Topic: MFS  (Read 11265 times)

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Offline icecactus

  • Posts: 58
MFS
« on: May 24, 2016, 02:07 AM »
Just curious but what was the reasoning behind discontinuing the MFS in north america?


TS 55 REQ, MFT/3, CT 48 w/Boom Arm, OF1400, LR32, 55" Holey Rail, 118" Rail, Domino 500, RO150, ETS150/3, RO90, DTS400

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Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 823
Re: MFS
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2016, 02:26 AM »
I'm sure someone from Festool or a dealer will reply with the corporate line about product life cycles, range refresh, etc.

But in short I'd propose it's grossly over priced for what it is and didn't sell in enough quantity for them to maintain it in their product line. As with any big business they will have to maximise profitability and don't have an unlimited cash flow, therefore they will drop products that have a slow rate of sale and divert budget to importing/stocking more popular lines from Germany.

The problem is these, driven by accountants, product range decisions are shrewd financially on paper, but do erode customer advocacy because customers feel that the business is putting too much emphasis on the greed of profit than offering customers the broadest product range possible.

Offline TylerC

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Re: MFS
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2016, 08:38 AM »
The main reasons why the MFS was discontinued was that didn't sell well. While some people liked it, there was very little interest in it overall.

In response to @bobfog: Sometimes (and I honestly don't know if this applies to the MFS) it's not about "greed of profit" as much as it's about minimizing losses. Yes, we'd love to sell "the broadest product range possible", but we aren't going to keep manufacturing something if we're losing money on it.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 09:14 AM by TylerC »

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 823
Re: MFS
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2016, 08:57 AM »
There were two main reasons why the MFS was discontinued:

1. It didn't sell well. While some people liked it, there was very little interest in it overall.
2.  The MFK Trim Router is really a better solution for similar work. Therefore, we'd rather push people in that direction.

In response to @bobfog: Sometimes (and I honestly don't know if this applies to the MFS) it's not about "greed of profit" as much as it's about minimizing losses. Yes, we'd love to sell "the broadest product range possible", but we aren't going to keep manufacturing something if we're losing money on it.
[/b]

Yeah I appreciate that. That's why I mentioned/prefaced that comment by saying even big businesses or even the manufacturers themselves don't have unlimited budgets to keep minimum stock quantities to supply potential demand of an entire region, if a particular line is a slow seller. I wasn't saying it was a bad decision just playing devil's advocate about the repercussions of the decision from the consumers perspective.

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 524
Re: MFS
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2016, 11:27 AM »
I think it's a huge shame they're dropping the MFS in the USA.  I guess they might then drop it in Europe too, because the total sales will be even smaller.

Of all the Festool products I've bought it's the one that has surprised me the most.  I find I end up using it on just about every project I do.

It's the completeness of Festool's range that makes it attractive.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2308
Re: MFS
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2016, 12:00 PM »
I think it's a huge shame they're dropping the MFS in the USA.  I guess they might then drop it in Europe too, because the total sales will be even smaller.

Of all the Festool products I've bought it's the one that has surprised me the most.  I find I end up using it on just about every project I do.

It's the completeness of Festool's range that makes it attractive.

Andrew

I could not agree more. I get why they are doing it, but it is a shame. I now, luckily, have a pretty complete set-up and keep finding more uses for it.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3766
Re: MFS
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2016, 12:54 PM »
I think it's a huge shame they're dropping the MFS in the USA.  I guess they might then drop it in Europe too, because the total sales will be even smaller.

Of all the Festool products I've bought it's the one that has surprised me the most.  I find I end up using it on just about every project I do.

It's the completeness of Festool's range that makes it attractive.

Andrew

Completeness?
It may seem complete, but when they drop the items, then it is less complete.
So it seems like it is less attractive?

Offline Gerald_D

  • Posts: 239
Re: MFS
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2016, 02:05 PM »
For those of you who have been using the MFS for a while, what are some examples of how you have used the MFS system?  I had purchased the MFS 700 set last week for cutting circular table tops, and I realize it will work for hinge mortises- just wondering what else.  Main reason I ask is to see if I should be purchasing extensions before they are no longer available.

I believe Jerry Work had a paper he created so I'm going to look for that as well.

Regards,
Gerald
Gerald
I have Festools- Big and Small and a few other tools


Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2308
Re: MFS
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2016, 12:23 AM »
Jerry's and Brice's guides are very helpful. I use the profiles as straight edges, an accurate square and I use them all the time for guiding my jigsaw. Of course the normal routing operations. While I have not done this technique yet, I want to use it to guide a router for surfacing wider boards than my jointer. I think erock  did this and there is another thread of someone else who did it. Very accurate and easy set-up. The smaller size is perfect for mortises. I think the stops are handy with four if you need to reference off two sides of a work piece. Oh, and don't forget inlay applications (covered in the user guides).

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 524
Re: MFS
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2016, 01:58 PM »
It would be quicker to list the things I don't use it for!  But typical examples are cutting pockets for the treads of stairs, cutouts for power sockets, cutouts for french cleats and sometimes circles; the list goes on.

I had made (by Shapeways) some corner fillets that enable me, using an 8mm cutter and 24mm and 40mm guide bushes, rout out an aperture and an exactly matching insert.  I used that, for example, to repair a door that had to be repaired after the lock jammed and had to be cut out.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline pettyconstruction

  • Posts: 340
Re: MFS
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2016, 11:06 PM »
Crap
Now I think I NEED one of those.

It's like how a girlfriend gets real attractive when you realize she is leaving you.
Lol.
Charlie

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1784
Re: MFS
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2016, 08:40 AM »
Crap
Now I think I NEED one of those.

It's like how a girlfriend gets real attractive when you realize she is leaving you.
Lol.
Charlie

Hmmm, can't relate. I never had one leave me. [poke]
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Online Peter Halle

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Re: MFS
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2016, 09:09 AM »
Crap
Now I think I NEED one of those.

It's like how a girlfriend gets real attractive when you realize she is leaving you.
Lol.
Charlie

Hmmm, can't relate. I never had one leave me. [poke]

ROFL!!!!!

Offline builderbob

  • Posts: 1358
    • RJP Remodeling
Re: MFS
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2016, 09:38 AM »
I just used my MFS 700 to makes this ring lastnight. I have to see if I can find the 200 & 2000 extensions...anybody know who has stock?



Kapex, TS55, CMS GE, Carvex 420, Domino DF500, MFK 700, OF 2200, OF 1400, OF 1010, EHL65, RAS 115, RTS 400, RO150, ETS 150/3, ETS 125, CT 22 (2), CXS (2), C-15+3, T-12+3, PSB 300 & more MFT's than i can count!

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 703
Re: MFS
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2016, 09:56 AM »
@builderbob looks like Bob Marino still has the extensions:

http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/mfs-extension-profiles/p/492722/

Out of the kits though.

Ron

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: MFS
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2016, 10:10 AM »
You are too late Bob, that was invented in 1958!  [wink]

OK, but whatcha building?

Seth

Offline builderbob

  • Posts: 1358
    • RJP Remodeling
Re: MFS
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2016, 10:18 AM »
You are too late Bob, that was invented in 1958!  [wink]

OK, but whatcha building?

Seth

It's an outer ring for a ceiling medallion. The parts that came with the "kit" we're in 4 pieces and the joining of the crap seams we're going to spell disaster down the road so I made a one piece ring.
Kapex, TS55, CMS GE, Carvex 420, Domino DF500, MFK 700, OF 2200, OF 1400, OF 1010, EHL65, RAS 115, RTS 400, RO150, ETS 150/3, ETS 125, CT 22 (2), CXS (2), C-15+3, T-12+3, PSB 300 & more MFT's than i can count!

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 459
Re: MFS
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2016, 11:51 AM »
I don't think Bob has any stock so to speak. Everything is shipped directly from Festool USA.

Offline builderbob

  • Posts: 1358
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Re: MFS
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2016, 11:53 AM »
I don't think Bob has any stock so to speak. Everything is shipped directly from Festool USA.


Well that sucks. Is there a way to find out if Festool has any stock of these things Tyler?
Kapex, TS55, CMS GE, Carvex 420, Domino DF500, MFK 700, OF 2200, OF 1400, OF 1010, EHL65, RAS 115, RTS 400, RO150, ETS 150/3, ETS 125, CT 22 (2), CXS (2), C-15+3, T-12+3, PSB 300 & more MFT's than i can count!

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 703
Re: MFS
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2016, 12:00 PM »
Bob's website is usually pretty good on inventory.

Call him (973) 896-4388

Online Peter Halle

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Re: MFS
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2016, 12:33 PM »
Bob does have inventory.  He chooses to have a company handle his order fulfillment for him.

Peter

Offline builderbob

  • Posts: 1358
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Re: MFS
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2016, 12:37 PM »
Bob does have inventory.  He chooses to have a company handle his order fulfillment for him.

Peter

Thanks guys!  I did drop him a line...here's to hoping!
Kapex, TS55, CMS GE, Carvex 420, Domino DF500, MFK 700, OF 2200, OF 1400, OF 1010, EHL65, RAS 115, RTS 400, RO150, ETS 150/3, ETS 125, CT 22 (2), CXS (2), C-15+3, T-12+3, PSB 300 & more MFT's than i can count!

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 703
Re: MFS
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2016, 12:50 PM »
Bob if you want them just order them now.  [cool]

If they aren't in stock you'll find out soon enough. If they are available some one else may grab them. I can't imagine that there is a significant number that even on online dealer would keep in stock.

Ron

Offline builderbob

  • Posts: 1358
    • RJP Remodeling
Re: MFS
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2016, 01:02 PM »
Bob if you want them just order them now.  [cool]

If they aren't in stock you'll find out soon enough. If they are available some one else may grab them. I can't imagine that there is a significant number that even on online dealer would keep in stock.

Ron

Done!  Good call Ron! 
Kapex, TS55, CMS GE, Carvex 420, Domino DF500, MFK 700, OF 2200, OF 1400, OF 1010, EHL65, RAS 115, RTS 400, RO150, ETS 150/3, ETS 125, CT 22 (2), CXS (2), C-15+3, T-12+3, PSB 300 & more MFT's than i can count!

Offline Staniam

  • Posts: 683
  • Enjoy what you do. Build something.
Re: MFS
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2016, 01:09 PM »


The problem is these, driven by accountants, product range decisions are shrewd financially on paper, but do erode customer advocacy because customers feel that the business is putting too much emphasis on the greed of profit than offering customers the broadest product range possible.

Green of profit. It is, you know, the goal for a company to make money. Do you work for free? Didn't think so, so why should employees with Festool work for free? Profit is the goal of everyone in every job. The goal is to make money.

And you just said there isn't an endless cash flow so they ditch products that don't sell. Which is the right thing to do in a business. Yet then you said theyre greedy instead of offering the broadest range of products possible.

I don't get it.
LA Lakers - Oakland Athletics
The Arsenal: Festool - PDC, CXS, RO 125, TS55 REQ, OF 1010 EQ, CT MIDI;  Bosch - JS572EBL, JS120, 1294VSK, PS22

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 524
Re: MFS
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2016, 01:20 PM »
I think it can be short sighted to focus on the profit of a particular component when it's part of a system.

Take for instance the edging plate that has just been discontinued.  OK, perhaps they didn't sell many.  But I have 5 routers and I bought my OF1010 just because it had the capability to do edging.  I'm only a hobbyist and couldn't justify a dedicated edging router such as the MFK700.

So had the edging plate not been available, they would have lost the sale of my OF1010 and the accessories I've bought for it (guide bushes etc), all of which I'm sure make a great margin.

Festool have started on a slippery slope, and I hope they think again before continuing this strategy.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline TylerC

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Re: MFS
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2016, 03:11 PM »
I completely get that it sucks when a product that you like gets discontinued. I'd just ask that you give us the benefit of the doubt that our decisions aren't quick or careless on this kind of thing.

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 823
Re: MFS
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2016, 03:36 PM »
I completely get that it sucks when a product that you like gets discontinued. I'd just ask that you give us the benefit of the doubt that our decisions aren't quick or careless on this kind of thing.

Why not lower the price to make it more popular and sell in greater volume, making less money per item, but selling more resulting in the same net profit? In the UK the MFS 700 is £250, for a few bits of extruded aluminium, some fixing and a some steel. It's obscene!

It does seem like an elitist attitude that if we can't sell it at an exorbitant rate we're not interested in selling it at all.

Offline Gerald_D

  • Posts: 239
Re: MFS
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2016, 04:51 PM »
I completely get that it sucks when a product that you like gets discontinued. I'd just ask that you give us the benefit of the doubt that our decisions aren't quick or careless on this kind of thing.

I'm sorry to see this leave the Festool lineup- especially since I've had it on my wish list for quite some time (always some other higher priority) and now I'm scrambling to get the pieces I think I'll need in the future before they are no longer available.  But I totally understand the decision since my full-time gig is inventory and warehousing, and I realize there is an inventory carrying cost for companies.  I'm hoping some of you are correct that these are somewhat easy for a machine shop to make and, as long as there is no patent infringement issues, that someone will offer an equal, compatible, and economic alternative in the future. 

Regards,
Gerald
Gerald
I have Festools- Big and Small and a few other tools