Author Topic: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?  (Read 41671 times)

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Offline jonathan-m

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Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« on: April 12, 2013, 01:12 PM »
Some news that might put smiles on a lot of faces :)
Little birds are whispering that Protools will become Festools  [wink]
Not sure what tools will make it and which won't or if & when they make it to the States, but it should be interesting nonetheless, because I assume those that don't will probably go on sale.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 02:22 PM by jonathan-m »
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Offline skids

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Re: Protool will be absorbed by Festool
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2013, 01:22 PM »
Some news that might put smiles on a lot of faces :)
Little birds are whispering that Protools will become Festools  [wink]

Any media source you can point to?
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Offline jonny round boy

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2013, 03:02 PM »
I have wondered about this myself in the past. I think one of the reasons Protool isn't available in the US is that there's already a US firm/brand called Pro Tool*, so they would have problems with the name. changing it all to Festool would solve that issue.

*At least I think there is. I might have dreamt it.... [blink]
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Online Alan m

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2013, 03:37 PM »
I have wondered about this myself in the past. I think one of the reasons Protool isn't available in the US is that there's already a US firm/brand called Pro Tool*, so they would have problems with the name. changing it all to Festool would solve that issue.

*At least I think there is. I might have dreamt it.... [blink]

thats the reason why we cant get protool in ireland
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Offline Deansocial

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2013, 03:38 PM »
Not bothered what they call it as long as it get released in the US because that means they will make it 110v [big grin]

Offline Davej

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2013, 04:14 PM »
Not bothered what they call it as long as it get released in the US because that means they will make it 110v [big grin]


+1
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Offline sean_hogan

  • Posts: 152
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2013, 05:02 PM »
Might not be related too this but one of the festool guys on the road tour told me that festool is bringing something massive this year that will bring in the sales, wonder what it could be , anyone else heard these roumours, could be something from the protocol range, if its a new kapex I'm selling mine haha
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Offline Deansocial

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2013, 05:32 PM »
Hmmm something massive. Ts150?

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2013, 05:48 PM »
Might not be related too this but one of the festool guys on the road tour told me that festool is bringing something massive this year that will bring in the sales, wonder what it could be , anyone else heard these roumours, could be something from the protocol range, if its a new kapex I'm selling mine haha

its another domino type machine [wink]
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline GPowers

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2013, 07:08 PM »
Love all these rumours. 
Greg Powers
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Online Alan m

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2013, 07:57 PM »
im salivating at the thoughts
it must be special to draw in sales . the domino is just the right size. a smaller one would be too specialised and bigger one would only be for structural work and that has mostly dried up
my money is on a lunch box thicknesser/thickness sander
maybe a floor sanding range that has all the dc that festool is know for
or a ti18 range

oh the thoughts. i know i wont sleep tonight
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Online duburban

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2013, 08:01 PM »
is the Robo2000, a festool robot that works for you during the day and sweet talks your wife while your on FOG.
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline sean_hogan

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2013, 08:10 PM »
I don't know what it is but he was a festool rep and he said he wasn't even allowed too know just too expect something that will pull in massive sales, prob loose his job if he did tell lol, a cordless ts55 would be nice ;D
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Offline wolften

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2013, 08:13 PM »
...hmmmm...wonder why Shane hasn't popped in [wink]

Online Runhard

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2013, 09:35 PM »
When can we pre-order?  [drooling]
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Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2013, 10:15 PM »
There are several Protool items that interest me, so I hope that the rumour is true and that we eventually see some of those tools in Canada.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Kev

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2013, 10:47 PM »
A proper CMS saw module would be a good start (forgot the docking motion, just quality height, angle and maybe scribing ... one unit that could take different blade sizes) - sunset the PRECISIO CS50 and CS70 and centre everything around an advanced CMS that supported all of the table applicable Festool tools round the globe!

Just while I'm going on about CMS - that CMS module storage frame is a joke - they need something that's mobile with a Systainer approach.

or how about a Sys5 thicknesser ... I'd love that!

All speculation aside, I do believe Festool should have a rolling consulting role for FOG members proving to be innovative - working in Germany for 6 weeks with the R&D team on blue sky products.

Timtool on the next generation MFT for example ...

.. and I'd certainly vote for Seth going off to Tanos for a product direction tune-up

I'd even send JMB in there - but probably lock him in the QA and product testing lab  [big grin]

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 209
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2013, 01:49 AM »
Any media source you can point to?

No media source yet, but I got it from a dealer.
The fact that online stores are suddenly running Protool clearance sales seems to support it.
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Offline Connollyir

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2013, 08:16 AM »
A proper CMS saw module would be a good start (forgot the docking motion, just quality height, angle and maybe scribing ... one unit that could take different blade sizes) - sunset the PRECISIO CS50 and CS70 and centre everything around an advanced CMS that supported all of the table applicable Festool tools round the globe!

Just while I'm going on about CMS - that CMS module storage frame is a joke - they need something that's mobile with a Systainer approach.

or how about a Sys5 thicknesser ... I'd love that!

All speculation aside, I do believe Festool should have a rolling consulting role for FOG members proving to be innovative - working in Germany for 6 weeks with the R&D team on blue sky products.

Timtool on the next generation MFT for example ...

.. and I'd certainly vote for Seth going off to Tanos for a product direction tune-up

I'd even send JMB in there - but probably lock him in the QA and product testing lab  [big grin]

+1 to that!

If Festool doesn't release the TS module for CMS in NA (I know all about the UL fight) I am probably going to have my local machine shop make one for me and put together a fence package on my own. 1600 is hard to swallow for the CMS table set if all its going to do for me is be a portable router table - modules for the TS and Trion jig saw are a must to make the package worth it.

A lunchbox surface planer would be a good one too...

Personally I would like to see accessory packages like the Centrotec installer kit released in NA in SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES again, and more availability of custom inserts for systainers.

I totally agree that Festool would only benefit from taking innovative and motivated members of the FOG community into the R&D process... esp. if those members were from different parts of the world so that they can speak to the differences in woodworking globally. Things that are commonly done in NA may not be as common in the UK and not at all in OZ etc.

-Ian

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2013, 08:39 AM »
Of course this is only a rumor, but it would make some sense.  If you look at the exterior designs of the tools the orange colors would change to green which would simplify the manufacturing across the entire tool platform, and by combining, the market share of Festool (combined) would increase.  Additionally, as is written on the Festool AU site, whereas all the TTS brands use the TTS infrastructure, there could be increased efficiencies, reduced costs, and increased profitability.  

Now if this rumor were to be true there would still be the UL issues to be overcome here in NA, but hopefully those too could be overcome. In my mind it would also make sense adding to an already established line of tools versus introducing a new line in NA and fighting to establish an identity and possibly having the same issues that other tool manufacturers have had with some of their brands labelled as consumer grade or pro grade, etc.

Of course these are only my thoughts.  Please do not read any of the above as substantiation of the rumor because I have no insider knowledge at all.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 08:43 AM by Peter Halle »
The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.

Offline skids

  • Posts: 897
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2013, 08:54 AM »
A proper CMS saw module would be a good start (forgot the docking motion, just quality height, angle and maybe scribing ... one unit that could take different blade sizes) - sunset the PRECISIO CS50 and CS70 and centre everything around an advanced CMS that supported all of the table applicable Festool tools round the globe!

Just while I'm going on about CMS - that CMS module storage frame is a joke - they need something that's mobile with a Systainer approach.

or how about a Sys5 thicknesser ... I'd love that!

All speculation aside, I do believe Festool should have a rolling consulting role for FOG members proving to be innovative - working in Germany for 6 weeks with the R&D team on blue sky products.

Timtool on the next generation MFT for example ...

.. and I'd certainly vote for Seth going off to Tanos for a product direction tune-up

I'd even send JMB in there - but probably lock him in the QA and product testing lab  [big grin]

+1 to that!

If Festool doesn't release the TS module for CMS in NA (I know all about the UL fight) I am probably going to have my local machine shop make one for me and put together a fence package on my own. 1600 is hard to swallow for the CMS table set if all its going to do for me is be a portable router table - modules for the TS and Trion jig saw are a must to make the package worth it.

A lunchbox surface planer would be a good one too...

Personally I would like to see accessory packages like the Centrotec installer kit released in NA in SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES again, and more availability of custom inserts for systainers.

I totally agree that Festool would only benefit from taking innovative and motivated members of the FOG community into the R&D process... esp. if those members were from different parts of the world so that they can speak to the differences in woodworking globally. Things that are commonly done in NA may not be as common in the UK and not at all in OZ etc.

-Ian

Why not just buy one from overseas? Let the lawyers squabble while we enjoy a table saw that make sense and doesn't take up my entire workshop.  [wink]
The Almighty Kapex 120, ETS 150/3, DTS 400, CTMidi,, Sys-1 Box (2), Sys-STF D125, Sys-Vari, Compact Cleaning Set, 1900 Rail, TS55r, CXS, OF-1010, MFT-Mini, MFT/3

Offline Connollyir

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2013, 09:12 AM »
A proper CMS saw module would be a good start (forgot the docking motion, just quality height, angle and maybe scribing ... one unit that could take different blade sizes) - sunset the PRECISIO CS50 and CS70 and centre everything around an advanced CMS that supported all of the table applicable Festool tools round the globe!

Just while I'm going on about CMS - that CMS module storage frame is a joke - they need something that's mobile with a Systainer approach.

or how about a Sys5 thicknesser ... I'd love that!

All speculation aside, I do believe Festool should have a rolling consulting role for FOG members proving to be innovative - working in Germany for 6 weeks with the R&D team on blue sky products.

Timtool on the next generation MFT for example ...

.. and I'd certainly vote for Seth going off to Tanos for a product direction tune-up

I'd even send JMB in there - but probably lock him in the QA and product testing lab  [big grin]

+1 to that!

If Festool doesn't release the TS module for CMS in NA (I know all about the UL fight) I am probably going to have my local machine shop make one for me and put together a fence package on my own. 1600 is hard to swallow for the CMS table set if all its going to do for me is be a portable router table - modules for the TS and Trion jig saw are a must to make the package worth it.

A lunchbox surface planer would be a good one too...

Personally I would like to see accessory packages like the Centrotec installer kit released in NA in SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES again, and more availability of custom inserts for systainers.

I totally agree that Festool would only benefit from taking innovative and motivated members of the FOG community into the R&D process... esp. if those members were from different parts of the world so that they can speak to the differences in woodworking globally. Things that are commonly done in NA may not be as common in the UK and not at all in OZ etc.

-Ian

Why not just buy one from overseas? Let the lawyers squabble while we enjoy a table saw that make sense and doesn't take up my entire workshop.  [wink]

Skids,

most places I have looked at will only ship in the Eurozone, UK, or AU due to the size and weight of the items they sell. I will admit that I haven't really jumped into this full-bore yet, just doing some research at this point and will probably run off that cliff this winter.

-Ian

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2013, 12:49 PM »
I'm kind of confused what this rumor is supposed to be about. I don't recall exactly what the relationship is, but I am pretty sure that Protool is already a division of Festool (or technically, TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co. KG). I think they might even be in the same building.

Offline jonny round boy

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2013, 01:13 PM »
I'm kind of confused what this rumor is supposed to be about. I don't recall exactly what the relationship is, but I am pretty sure that Protool is already a division of Festool (or technically, TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co. KG). I think they might even be in the same building.

Rick,

Yes, Protool and Festool are both part of TTS, but the rumour is that the protool name would be no more, and the existing protool line would be absorbed into the Festool line, and badged as Festool.
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Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2013, 04:29 PM »
I'm kind of confused what this rumor is supposed to be about. I don't recall exactly what the relationship is, but I am pretty sure that Protool is already a division of Festool (or technically, TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co. KG). I think they might even be in the same building.

Rick,

Yes, Protool and Festool are both part of TTS, but the rumour is that the protool name would be no more, and the existing protool line would be absorbed into the Festool line, and badged as Festool.

Not sure how I feel about that. I guess it's good, but the Festool name is sacred to me. [wink] I hope it erode the brand in an attempt to increase customer base etc. Festool has a neat thing going here in the US, not mainstream and i like that alot.

Also, am I missing something about Protool? There product range seems pretty limited. What do they make that so important to the Festool owner?

« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 04:37 PM by skids »
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Offline Davej

  • Posts: 381
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2013, 06:07 PM »
At the present protool is only 240v  and is considered to be more 'trade' orientated in europe . It will not erode the festool ' brand' it will enhance it as all that will happen is the amalgamating of  what is in reality festools ' heavy duty' range into the green family of products . You can get a protool cordless hammer drill but not a festool , so you will will end up with more choice, or possibly some festool and protool products being ' dropped' where there is too close a similarity to make it viable. Maybe or maybe not , after all at the moment its all just ifs and maybe's
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Online Alan m

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2013, 08:22 PM »
protool have quiet a few tools that we would want as festool owners.
the sword rail chain saw
rail mini grinder
large skill saws
angle grinders
corded drills
drywall autofeed drills
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2013, 08:30 PM »
At the present protool is only 240v  and is considered to be more 'trade' orientated in europe . It will not erode the festool ' brand' it will enhance it as all that will happen is the amalgamating of  what is in reality festools ' heavy duty' range into the green family of products . You can get a protool cordless hammer drill but not a festool , so you will will end up with more choice, or possibly some festool and protool products being ' dropped' where there is too close a similarity to make it viable. Maybe or maybe not , after all at the moment its all just ifs and maybe's

I think you've summed it up pretty well.  The Protool brand is more geared towards products closer to tools that we might expect from Hilti here in the US.  The head of TTS is from Hilti so he understands the full potential of the US tool market.  So I wouldn't be surprised if this rumor is true.  I think you should start hassling Shane now about when you'll see the new rebadged Protools here in the States [blink]  Okay, I'm kidding, maybe it's a little too soon, we'll wait a bit longer to see if the Protools does get folded in.  Then, it's full court pressure on Shane. [tongue]       
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Offline Kev

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2013, 09:23 PM »
I see very little overlap in the Protool / Festool product ranges ... small circular saw, jigsaw, the odd cordless drill and the vac's ... but the majority of the stuff is uniquely Protool.

All of the concrete grinding / renovating stuff and the angle grinders are quite nice - but I don't believe there's the same margin of differentiation between Protool and "other" v's Festool and "other", so the move could be a branding error in some ways. Let's face it, the guy that grinds a concrete floor flat after removing your tiles doesn't have the same fastidious aura as the guy painstakingly cutting dovetails for you cabinet drawers!

I also believe Protool is made by a lower cost labour force (still European though).

I've seen a lot of very large companies screw up their brand image trying to weave it into a cost saving corporate strategy - it can be quite dumb!

Would as many people buy an Aston Martin Vanquish if it was called a Ford Vanquish? I know I'm talking in a different league - just making the point! A rebadged Focus with Aston Martin would sell for a little while, but ultimately it would damage the brand and the flagship product would suffer image degradation. It's a different scale, but this sort of thing needs to be considered.

Rather that merge the product lines, it would probably be better to leverage Festool but sub brad the range (maybe Festool Industrial - in a way that sets product expectation ... a Protool/Festool angle grinder isn't going to revolutionise your work).

Honestly I don't know this stuff all that well - but I do hear alarm bells [eek] and would like to know the underlying strategy.

Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2013, 10:09 PM »
I see very little overlap in the Protool / Festool product ranges ... small circular saw, jigsaw, the odd cordless drill and the vac's ... but the majority of the stuff is uniquely Protool.

All of the concrete grinding / renovating stuff and the angle grinders are quite nice - but I don't believe there's the same margin of differentiation between Protool and "other" v's Festool and "other", so the move could be a branding error in some ways. Let's face it, the guy that grinds a concrete floor flat after removing your tiles doesn't have the same fastidious aura as the guy painstakingly cutting dovetails for you cabinet drawers!

I also believe Protool is made by a lower cost labour force (still European though).

I've seen a lot of very large companies screw up their brand image trying to weave it into a cost saving corporate strategy - it can be quite dumb!

Would as many people buy an Aston Martin Vanquish if it was called a Ford Vanquish? I know I'm talking in a different league - just making the point! A rebadged Focus with Aston Martin would sell for a little while, but ultimately it would damage the brand and the flagship product would suffer image degradation. It's a different scale, but this sort of thing needs to be considered.

Rather that merge the product lines, it would probably be better to leverage Festool but sub brad the range (maybe Festool Industrial - in a way that sets product expectation ... a Protool/Festool angle grinder isn't going to revolutionise your work).

Honestly I don't know this stuff all that well - but I do hear alarm bells [eek] and would like to know the underlying strategy.

I am 100% with you on this one. Totally agree. My preference is to keep these two delineated. No line extension.

Festool is Festool, Protool is Protool, or like you said Festool industrial could create the right image. I think these tools appeal to very different audiences so you can't just slap Festool labels on Pro Tools and call it a day, it's not that simple.
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Offline jonathan-m

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2013, 05:22 AM »
It seems to me Festool has been building is a VERY strong brand image. Maybe even more so in the States than Europe.
Many over the Atlantic seem to believe it's the end all, be all brand of tools. Well guys, it's not. It's just a tool company that makes many of the better ones out there. And a company that has a very large marketing budget [eek] There also seems to be some mythical belief by many that something has to be made in Germany to be of great quality.

Protool is in no way or fashion less than Festool.  They're pretty much the same. The tools might even be designed to be a bit more resistant to wear and tear than Festool. Protools just have different colours. When pull comes to shove, once these tools come out in the States with the green knobs and the Festool name on it, people will again say, they're the best tools they've ever seen and that they've introduced a new industry standard.
Nobody, but people that follow the industry closely, will know they used to be called Protool...

If anything, it will bring Festool into a couple of new market segments and bring it closer to the tool ranges of other brands. And with the brand image Festool has in the States, it'll be a big win for them.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 06:02 PM by jonathan-m »
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Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2013, 06:35 AM »
It seems to me Festool has been building is a VERY strong brand image. Maybe even more so in the States than Europe.
Many over the Atlantic seem to believe it's the end all, be all brand of tools. Well guys, it's not. It's just a tool company that makes many of the better ones out there. And a company that has a very large marketing budget [eek] There also seems to be some mythical belief by many that something has to be made in Germany to be of great quality.

Protool is in no way or fashion less than Festool.  They're pretty much the same. The tools might even be designed to be a bit more resistant to wear and tear than Festool. Protools just have different colours. When point comes to shove, once these tools come out in the States with the green knobs and the Festool name on it, people will again say, they're the best tools they've ever seen and that they've introduced a new industry standard.
Nobody, but people that follow the industry closely, will know they used to be called Protool...

If anything, it will bring Festool into a couple of new market segments and bring it closer to the tool ranges of other brands. And with the brand image Festool has in the States, it'll be a big win for them.


And if it ends up in Home Depot I am selling all my tools.
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2013, 07:20 AM »
It seems to me Festool has been building is a VERY strong brand image. Maybe even more so in the States than Europe.
Many over the Atlantic seem to believe it's the end all, be all brand of tools. Well guys, it's not. It's just a tool company that makes many of the better ones out there. And a company that has a very large marketing budget [eek] There also seems to be some mythical belief by many that something has to be made in Germany to be of great quality.

Protool is in no way or fashion less than Festool.  They're pretty much the same. The tools might even be designed to be a bit more resistant to wear and tear than Festool. Protools just have different colours. When point comes to shove, once these tools come out in the States with the green knobs and the Festool name on it, people will again say, they're the best tools they've ever seen and that they've introduced a new industry standard.
Nobody, but people that follow the industry closely, will know they used to be called Protool...

If anything, it will bring Festool into a couple of new market segments and bring it closer to the tool ranges of other brands. And with the brand image Festool has in the States, it'll be a big win for them.


And if it ends up in Home Depot I am selling all my tools.

Hilti used to be sold at Home Depot.  In my area they had a Hilti salesman there during normal work hours.  If Festool did something like that it could be huge for sales. 
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Offline Bikeboy80

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2013, 07:27 AM »
Key words though...Used to Be!

I always just saw the rep standing there. I'm not sure how many homeowners would appreciate a higher end tool when there are so many cheaper options available there for their weekend project. [tongue]
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Online duburban

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2013, 07:49 AM »
what do all these theories mean for the quality of the product?
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2013, 08:11 AM »
It seems to me Festool has been building is a VERY strong brand image. Maybe even more so in the States than Europe.
Many over the Atlantic seem to believe it's the end all, be all brand of tools. Well guys, it's not. It's just a tool company that makes many of the better ones out there. And a company that has a very large marketing budget [eek] There also seems to be some mythical belief by many that something has to be made in Germany to be of great quality.

Protool is in no way or fashion less than Festool.  They're pretty much the same. The tools might even be designed to be a bit more resistant to wear and tear than Festool. Protools just have different colours. When point comes to shove, once these tools come out in the States with the green knobs and the Festool name on it, people will again say, they're the best tools they've ever seen and that they've introduced a new industry standard.
Nobody, but people that follow the industry closely, will know they used to be called Protool...

If anything, it will bring Festool into a couple of new market segments and bring it closer to the tool ranges of other brands. And with the brand image Festool has in the States, it'll be a big win for them.


And if it ends up in Home Depot I am selling all my tools.

Hilti used to be sold at Home Depot.  In my area they had a Hilti salesman there during normal work hours.  If Festool did something like that it could be huge for sales. 

Yeah they do that up here in MA too..But if Festool ends up at Home Depot I am out..Last thing I want to see is a Kapex in the rental area.  [wink]

Honeslty though, I am not sure why I just think those box stores downgrade everything, and if Festool chose this path, they would be downgrading their customer. They are the Wal-Marts of the tool/building material world.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 08:18 AM by skids »
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2013, 08:28 AM »
Kev! I would be more than happy to use and abuse the tools and then give honest feedback  [big grin]



This protool/festool merging doesn't really affect me to be honest.  I use 240v tools so protool being 240v doesn't affect me.
  I can buy protool tools just as easy as festool tools so no problem there.  
 My protool batteries fit my festool jigsaw and drill and my festool batteries fit my protools. 

So to me if they where to change over it would only cosmetic to me.
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2013, 09:19 AM »
Kev! I would be more than happy to use and abuse the tools and then give honest feedback  [big grin]



This protool/festool merging doesn't really affect me to be honest.  I use 240v tools so protool being 240v doesn't affect me.
  I can buy protool tools just as easy as festool tools so no problem there.  
 My protool batteries fit my festool jigsaw and drill and my festool batteries fit my protools. 

So to me if they where to change over it would only cosmetic to me.

That's the million dollar question.  Will this turn out to be a cosmetic change only or will it have a bigger impact?  Who knows, it might be a change that pushes the Festool brand to new markets, more so here in the States.  That could be great for Festool and in turn all of us with an even broader range of tools in the future. 
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Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2013, 09:37 AM »
This is still going on?

Offline Kodi Crescent

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2013, 09:38 AM »
I just finished a book titled "Cheap - The high cost of discount culture".  In it they talk about the box stores.  And they name Home Depot and Lowes among others.  If I remember correctly, these box stores set a price point and then tool manufacturers have to produce the tool to that price point.  They have offices in China to deal directly with the contract vendors who produce the tool.

Festool's business model doesn't fit that of the box stores.  It would take up shelf space and not turn over like the lower priced brands do.  The box stores are interested in volume, not service.

Offline Deansocial

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2013, 09:40 AM »
They could call the lot carp tool for all i care, if its good i buy it if not i dont. Im not a brand

Online Shane Holland

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2013, 09:41 AM »
Well, since this is in the Ask Festool secton, let me reply. Sorry for not replying sooner, I guess it got moved to the Ask Festool section or I missed it.

I don't know of any official announcement of a merger, or whatever you want to call it.

I've not added a long list of Protool badged products to the list of ETA for NA thread.  [wink]

Since it was asked or talked about... Festool and Protool are sister companies, two of the dozens of companies owned by TTS, or Tooltechnic Systems. Protool focuses on rough construction tools while Festool focuses on fine woodworking and finish carpentry type tools. Many of the internal resources are shared between the two subsidiaries.

Have fun speculating.  [smile]

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Offline adubeau

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2013, 09:58 AM »
I see very little overlap in the Protool / Festool product ranges ... small circular saw, jigsaw, the odd cordless drill and the vac's ... but the majority of the stuff is uniquely Protool.

All of the concrete grinding / renovating stuff and the angle grinders are quite nice - but I don't believe there's the same margin of differentiation between Protool and "other" v's Festool and "other", so the move could be a branding error in some ways. Let's face it, the guy that grinds a concrete floor flat after removing your tiles doesn't have the same fastidious aura as the guy painstakingly cutting dovetails for you cabinet drawers!

I also believe Protool is made by a lower cost labour force (still European though).

I've seen a lot of very large companies screw up their brand image trying to weave it into a cost saving corporate strategy - it can be quite dumb!

Would as many people buy an Aston Martin Vanquish if it was called a Ford Vanquish? I know I'm talking in a different league - just making the point! A rebadged Focus with Aston Martin would sell for a little while, but ultimately it would damage the brand and the flagship product would suffer image degradation. It's a different scale, but this sort of thing needs to be considered.

Rather that merge the product lines, it would probably be better to leverage Festool but sub brad the range (maybe Festool Industrial - in a way that sets product expectation ... a Protool/Festool angle grinder isn't going to revolutionise your work).

Honestly I don't know this stuff all that well - but I do hear alarm bells [eek] and would like to know the underlying strategy.

I am 100% with you on this one. Totally agree. My preference is to keep these two delineated. No line extension.

Festool is Festool, Protool is Protool, or like you said Festool industrial could create the right image. I think these tools appeal to very different audiences so you can't just slap Festool labels on Pro Tools and call it a day, it's not that simple.

Not to mention possible damage to the Festool brand...  If there is any truth to this I am sure the marketing types will come up with something...
Maybe a competion on FOG for a new tool brand? Bestool..? HA







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Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2013, 12:30 PM »
From the very beginning I had always felt this was an unfounded rumor for various reasons. Even in the "wishful thinking department" there are some logic flaws.

First off, consider how closely guarded secrets are within the organization, even for just a new product, let alone a major change such as this. A sales rep would not know about an organizational change such as this until it was already being implemented.

Then there is the wishful thinking:
If Protool is not available in the US or other countries, why would a name change be required to change that? It is the same infrastructure. If TTS wanted the product in a specific location, they would bring it there regardless what the sticker was on the side of the tool. Trademarks are not strong enough to prevent a product from being sold if the desire is there to do so. For example, simply prefixing the name with TTS-Protool would be sufficient.

If Protool is available in only 240 volts, why would a name change be required to change that? Or conversely, just because it gets a name change, why would it force other changes to go with it?

If Festool wanted any of the products branded under Protool to be available under Festool, they would have or could have already done that years ago. It wouldn't require a name merger to accomplish that.

Even though there could be legitimate business reasons for wanting a name-merger, none of them have been touched on in this discussion.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2013, 12:42 PM »
Rick, I think that there is a reason as far as North America is concerned.  The Protool brand is only known here by folks like you and me and we don't count.  Ten years ago the Festool brand was only known here by folks like you and me but that is changing.  Now lots of people have heard of Festool and they know that their tools are right up there with the best.  If they want to sell Protool stuff here, the Festool rand would help.

Support for only 240 volt tools would be a problem.  Again, I have 240 volt capability both in my woodworking shop and on site (with a generator), but I am not the normal customer.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2013, 01:14 PM »
Rick, I think that there is a reason as far as North America is concerned.  The Protool brand is only known here by folks like you and me and we don't count.  Ten years ago the Festool brand was only known here by folks like you and me but that is changing.  Now lots of people have heard of Festool and they know that their tools are right up there with the best.  If they want to sell Protool stuff here, the Festool rand would help.

Yes, but that could be accomplished with a simple 10-cent sticker change without significant corporate reorganization. Simply putting a green Festool logo near the orange Protool logo would be sufficient. However, when it comes to bringing any of the tools over to the US market, the hurdle isn't so much the name, as it is the cost for UL listing. That would remain the same regardless what color they were or what name they carried.

Support for only 240 volt tools would be a problem.  Again, I have 240 volt capability both in my woodworking shop and on site (with a generator), but I am not the normal customer.

The same argument applies. You don't have to change the color or name to change the voltage. It's just a motor change, and that would be the same regardless what color or brand the tool was listed under.

I'm not saying something like this couldn't happen. I'm just saying that the reasons given in this discussion are not sufficient for making a corporate reorganization to accomplish them.

Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2013, 01:15 PM »
Rick, I think that there is a reason as far as North America is concerned.  The Protool brand is only known here by folks like you and me and we don't count.  Ten years ago the Festool brand was only known here by folks like you and me but that is changing.  Now lots of people have heard of Festool and they know that their tools are right up there with the best.  If they want to sell Protool stuff here, the Festool rand would help.

Support for only 240 volt tools would be a problem.  Again, I have 240 volt capability both in my woodworking shop and on site (with a generator), but I am not the normal customer.

I had never heard of Protool until I bought Festool and joined this forum. It was really the forum that introduced me to Pro tool. I should mention I have been buying tools for 20 some-odd years now and tend to shop for quality stuff. Still never ran across it.

If any of this rumor were true, it made more sense forTTC to introduce Festool to this market than Protool since there are so many competitors in Protools' market. But Festool really stands on it's own here in the US, there isn't anything like it anywhere here.
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2013, 02:11 PM »
From the very beginning I had always felt this was an unfounded rumor for various reasons. Even in the "wishful thinking department" there are some logic flaws.

First off, consider how closely guarded secrets are within the organization, even for just a new product, let alone a major change such as this. A sales rep would not know about an organizational change such as this until it was already being implemented.

Then there is the wishful thinking:
If Protool is not available in the US or other countries, why would a name change be required to change that? It is the same infrastructure. If TTS wanted the product in a specific location, they would bring it there regardless what the sticker was on the side of the tool. Trademarks are not strong enough to prevent a product from being sold if the desire is there to do so. For example, simply prefixing the name with TTS-Protool would be sufficient.

If Protool is available in only 240 volts, why would a name change be required to change that? Or conversely, just because it gets a name change, why would it force other changes to go with it?

If Festool wanted any of the products branded under Protool to be available under Festool, they would have or could have already done that years ago. It wouldn't require a name merger to accomplish that.

Even though there could be legitimate business reasons for wanting a name-merger, none of them have been touched on in this discussion.

Reason 240v was mentioned by Dean was only because IF the reason of the name change was to introduce protools in the USA they would have to be changed to 110v  which would make Dean happy because he wants protool but he needs them in 110v .  He never said that the name change its self would introduce 110v tools like you are trying to suggest.

Jmb
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Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2013, 02:44 PM »
You guys get carried away, way to easily.

You can already get your hands on some of the protool stuff anyways.

Like a giant beauty shop in here.

Offline jmbfestool

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #49 on: April 14, 2013, 02:53 PM »
You guys get carried away, way to easily.

You can already get your hands on some of the protool stuff anyways.

Like a giant beauty shop in here.

It's a USA thing
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Online Peter Halle

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2013, 03:17 PM »

Like a giant beauty shop in here.

How convenient.  I need to have my roots touched up.   [big grin]

The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.

Offline johninthecamper

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2013, 03:44 PM »
now this thread is going to die,I will admit to checking it
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 04:30 PM by johninthecamper »

Online ccarrolladams

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2013, 04:02 PM »
In the USA there is a long established corporation which has used the ProTools trademark for almost 100 years. I strongly suspect that over the years TTS has researched ways around that trademark and felt the legal battle was not worth the expense.

While on trips to Europe I have used a few of the Protools which have use in cabinet making. They are excellent, but all of those are so similar to brands already sold in the USA that TTS probably does not want to spend the money to make 110v versions and then get UL approval. Some of the other Protools I have only seen in European stores and read about have no chance of UL approval, especially the chain saw.

Over the years it appears that TTS does not import to North America any of their products in the face of successful existing brands.

So, I personally am not holding my breath waiting for TTS to bring Protools to the USA with or without a color and label change.

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2013, 04:25 PM »
In the USA there is a long established corporation which has used the ProTools trademark for almost 100 years. I strongly suspect that over the years TTS has researched ways around that trademark and felt the legal battle was not worth the expense.


That would be worth considering, if it wasn't for the fact that TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co. KG LIMITED PARTNERSHIP FED REP GERMANY Wertstrasse 20 73240 Wendlingen FED REP GERMANY actually already owns the trademark in the U.S. in the first place! (copy/pasted from the Trademark registration page).

You can read the actual trademark registration (Reg. No. 3740161) here: (If the link doesn't work, just go to the TESS website and search for "Protool", or the registration number 3740161.)
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4001:tzktur.2.4

When you already own a "live" trademark, there is nothing to defend. The Trademark is "Live" in the U.S. and already registered to TTS for the past 5 years (applied 2008, approved in 2010). EDITED to ADD: It has actually been owned for at least 14 years.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 05:00 PM by Rick Christopherson »

Online Alan m

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2013, 04:36 PM »
surly going to another country and getting and keeping a trademark that another company is using  is a sign of their intent .
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Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2013, 04:48 PM »
surly going to another country and getting and keeping a trademark that another company is using  is a sign of their intent .


Yes, that too would be worth considering, except the original trademark (now dead) was previously filed in 1999. A secondary one succeeded it in 2001, and which is also still "Live". The filings have been occurring for well over a decade. It is standard business practice for international corporations.

Nevertheless, the point made was that TTS already owns the name and mark here in the U.S..

As I said above, I have no idea whether this rumor has any truth or not, but the reasons given behind the speculation are not based on any business logic. That is all I am saying.

Online ccarrolladams

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #56 on: April 14, 2013, 05:39 PM »
Well, eventually we will see what TTS does with the Protools trade mark they registered in the USA.

Just remember, trademark law is one of the most complicated in the Intellectual Property legal specialty. Often patents are issued than later invalidated when the product approaches the market. The same is true of trademarks. But it is also possible the maker of socket wrenches and other hand tools is out of business, except for holding the trademark. TTS might have bought that. Otherwise, several IP attorneys will make some money.

So to take the NA market by storm, all TTS needs to do is re-design popular Protools for 110v and get UL approval. The first step would be the battery-powered drills, drivers and hammers. The batteries interchange with Festools for which 110v chargers are already approved.

Is the NA market for corded drills, drivers and hammers under-served? TTS must be doing market research about this as we speculate. For example, all the drywall contractors I know here already have self-feeding screw guns which they use when appropriate. I'm not aware of new drywall contractors entering the business. Some are going back into that business, using equipment they have been storing for a few years.

Online Alex

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #57 on: April 14, 2013, 05:45 PM »
What strange things some people have to say about Protool. Like, Protool bringing Festool quality down? Seriously? What stuff are you guys on?

Protool is a very expensive brand and it's all top of the line, as in "It's almost impossible to find better". As for exclusivity, it's a lot more exclusive than Festool. I can buy Festool at 50 shops in close proximity. I can buy Protool at perhaps 2 or 3. Nobody knows the brand. Nobody has it. It's ultra rare.

I also don't understand why site oriented tools would bring down a line of tools aimed at carpenters. Do carpenters feel that hoity-toity about themselves?

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #58 on: April 14, 2013, 06:00 PM »
I still think that it will happen - eventually.  Regarding the quality of Protool I agree with Alex and those overseas who have seen and touched them and used them.  TTS wouldn't have bought the company that makes Protools years ago if they made junk.  Every one of the TTS companies is a maker of top quality products.

Many of the discussions here have been about the assumption that the NA market is the aim.  Maybe it's not the primary.  I don't see that Protool is in China based on the Protool website. 

Just speculating and adding my less than 1 cent worth.

Peter



The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #59 on: April 14, 2013, 06:17 PM »
Well, eventually we will see what TTS does with the Protools trade mark they registered in the USA.

Just remember, trademark law is one of the most complicated in the Intellectual Property legal specialty. Often patents are issued than later invalidated when the product approaches the market. The same is true of trademarks.

You have the two forms of protection backward. A patent can be challenged for any one of its multiple "claims" (a patent term), but a Trademark is less likely to be challenged after it has been issued. The Trademark has successfully existed for 14 years without challenge, so challenging it today would be frivolous.

It is not complicated. To the contrary, it is very simple. The Trademark has been issued, and the onus would be on the challenger to defeat the Trademark. That review process expired before the Trademark was officially issued.

Challenging a live Trademark is virtually unheard of. The only time this happens is when a company fails to defend its Trademark. This is the reason why "Allen Wrench" is no longer a defendable Trademark, because it has become synonymous with all hex keys. Google risks this forfeiture if they do not defend their name in common lexicon.

The ProTool trademark has been registered for over 14 years, and it has been kept up to date. This is not the reason for speculating about this topic.

Online Alan m

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2013, 06:27 PM »
rick you seem to know a lot of reasons why it would be a good idea. do you care to share


on the google trademark point.
do you mean that if every uses the term google (as in just google it etc) when they really mean search the internet ,then google the company doesnt have any say over its use any more

similar to saying i will do the hovering instead of vacum cleaning
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Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2013, 06:45 PM »
on the google trademark point.
do you mean that if every uses the term google (as in just google it etc) when they really mean search the internet ,then google the company doesnt have any say over its use any more

similar to saying i will do the hovering instead of vacum cleaning


Yes, that is absolutely correct! This is the sole reason why the Allen Tool Company lost their Trademark to "Allen Wrench", and also why Kimberly Clark lost their trademark to "Kleenex". (Oh, Vise-Grip is another one that got lost.) Google is at risk of loosing their's for the same reason. They have recently stepped up their efforts to protect it, but I have seen it coming for several years.

Once a Trademark becomes "common lexicon", it can no longer be defended, and Google is very close to having this happen to them. This point was actually in the news just a couple weeks ago. They can't go after the individual people, but they have stepped up efforts against the media and large sources.

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2013, 06:50 PM »
I've been out for the day but I see this carries on. I'm going to offer my guess.

Festool and Protool combine, as well as the color scheme, and it's called Halloweentool. Systainers will be replaced with white sheets of fabric that conform to the shape of the tool with Plug-It and CT holes cut out and each tool with come with a complimentary bottle of fake blood. This decision was made after decades of market research that determined 98.7% of professional woodworkers are keen on the holiday and celebrate it year around. After all, woodworker with a lopped off finger costume sales are at an all time high.

We later find this was only second to the idea of Oktoberfestool where a camelback-style Systainer would come out with a sippy straw for your favorite on-the-jobsite beverage consumption. However, this cannibalized sales of woodworker with a lopped off finger costumes because guys were really cutting off fingers when using tools while drunk. The Halloween costume industry lobbied for the Halloweentool option and offered monetary and other kickbacks in return for a change in marketing strategy.

Since Halloween is popular in the U.S., this was seen as a highly strategic move to secure future market share with would-be Protool antagonists.

[popcorn]
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Online Peter Halle

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2013, 06:56 PM »
I've been out for the day but I see this carries on. I'm going to offer my guess.

Festool and Protool combine, as well as the color scheme, and it's called Halloweentool. Systainers will be replaced with sheets of plastic that conform to the shape of the tool with Plug-It and CT holes cut out and each tool with come with a complimentary bottle of fake blood. This decision was made after decades of market research that determined 98.7% of professional woodworkers are keen on the holiday and celebrate it year around. After all, woodworker with a lopped off finger costume sales are at an all time high.

We later find this was only second to the idea of Oktoberfestool where a camelback-style Systainer would come out with a sippy straw for your favorite on-the-jobsite beverage consumption. However, this cannibalized sales of woodworker with a lopped off finger costumes because guys were really cutting off fingers when using tools while drunk. The Halloween costume industry lobbied for the Halloweentool option and offered monetary and other kickbacks in return for a change in marketing strategy.

Since Halloween is popular in the U.S., this was seen as a highly strategic move to secure future market share with would-be Protool antagonists.

[popcorn]

 [thumbs up] *3
The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2013, 06:59 PM »
I've been out for the day but I see this carries on. I'm going to offer my guess.

Festool and Protool combine, as well as the color scheme, and it's called Halloweentool. Systainers will be replaced with sheets of plastic that conform to the shape of the tool with Plug-It and CT holes cut out and each tool with come with a complimentary bottle of fake blood. This decision was made after decades of market research that determined 98.7% of professional woodworkers are keen on the holiday and celebrate it year around. After all, woodworker with a lopped off finger costume sales are at an all time high.

We later find this was only second to the idea of Oktoberfestool where a camelback-style Systainer would come out with a sippy straw for your favorite on-the-jobsite beverage consumption. However, this cannibalized sales of woodworker with a lopped off finger costumes because guys were really cutting off fingers when using tools while drunk. The Halloween costume industry lobbied for the Halloweentool option and offered monetary and other kickbacks in return for a change in marketing strategy.

Since Halloween is popular in the U.S., this was seen as a highly strategic move to secure future market share with would-be Protool antagonists.

[popcorn]

Misdirection??  Shane is trying to throw us off track here. [tongue]
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Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2013, 07:00 PM »
I don't know about the rest of you, but I like this new "Halloween Perspective". It makes more sense.  [big grin]

So can we start showing pictures of Shane in our favorite Halloween regalia?  [tongue]

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2013, 07:01 PM »
You guys get carried away, way to easily.

You can already get your hands on some of the protool stuff anyways.

Like a giant beauty shop in here.

Yet you keep coming back...... [big grin]
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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2013, 07:02 PM »
You have the two forms of protection backward. A patent can be challenged for any one of its multiple "claims" (a patent term), but a Trademark is less likely to be challenged after it has been issued. The Trademark has successfully existed for 14 years without challenge, so challenging it today would be frivolous.

It's not only about owning a trademark. What also matters is name recognition. If you introduce a new name that is similar to an existing brands' name then the original company can ask the court to forbid you using that name. Happens all the time. You might be able to trademark a name like Coco Cola because technically it is spelled differently, but you're never ever going to sell any bottles under that name for obvious reasons.

Personally I think it wasn't the best decision by TTS to choose the name Protool. It sounds very good but it's too generic. Many other brands with that name or similar names already exist. Furthermore, lots of very cheap tool brands use something with Pro in their name to give it a shine of quality. While it's the exact opposite. The first time I heard of Protool I thought that it was another one of those cheap brands. Only when I saw their price tags I realised it must be something different. But because of the word "Pro" the wrong assumption was quickly made.  


 

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2013, 07:13 PM »
.......As I said above, I have no idea whether this rumor has any truth or not, but the reasons given behind the speculation are not based on any business logic. That is all I am saying.

I disagree.  The obvious logic is to build on the strong(er) brand of Festool over that of the Protool name.  This is especially true here in N. America, if they decide to go that route.  It could be cost prohibitive to build the Protool brand here.  I don't think you are arguing these points.  Your idea of just rebadging the Protool products to sell here is solid.  However, what would be the point of keeping the Protool brand if (and this is a big if) they could do better branded as Festool?      
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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2013, 07:19 PM »
i have  to agree with alex
too much crap with the 'pro' in the  name
i usually look at tools like that as the crap that most of them are.
there is a debate (not sure if any one is listing thow) over here in ireland
a lot of the big name supermarkets are designing their home brand products with similar names and packaging to the premium brands
there is talks about it being consumer fraud(might not be the right term but , making the consumer think they are buying one thing when thare buying something else)

i cant see this doing any harm to either brand. they are both great tools sold by a great company. i wish all the tts devisions would come together . im sure there are tools there we would all love
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Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2013, 07:22 PM »
I was having some fun with this, and Shane's Halloween posting had me on the floor laughing. But it is getting out of control, so I am bowing out.

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2013, 07:29 PM »
I was having some fun with this, and Shane's Halloween posting had me on the floor laughing. But it is getting out of control, so I am bowing out.

its not dragons den rick . no need to say your out.

we all know there is nothing any of us can say that will influence this either way.
its fun to think about thow
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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2013, 07:39 PM »
Rick, I am not clear where you studied IP law and where you are licensed to practice.

That was a major issue for every successful business I have ever owned. I graduated from a major law school, as well as engineering school and have been licensed to practice in the Federal Courts since 1960. So as we said in law school, those who care to debate are welcome to see us in court.

Trademarks, copyrights and patents all can be up-set for many reasons. Knowing those is why we study law and pass exams. Wishing the laws are written the way someone wants them to be written is a wish a dream makes.

Of course your experience probably differs.

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2013, 08:14 PM »
I have been following this thread, and I almost feel that lately I need to enroll in law school or put an attorney on retainer.  Wouldn't a better announcement at least for us in North America be that Festool got UL approval to use/sell the CMS with the ability to use the OF2200 and the other modules outside NA.
Bryan

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Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2013, 08:16 PM »
Rick, I am not clear where you studied IP law and where you are licensed to practice.

That was a major issue for every successful business I have ever owned. I graduated from a major law school, as well as engineering school and have been licensed to practice in the Federal Courts since 1960. So as we said in law school, those who care to debate are welcome to see us in court.

Trademarks, copyrights and patents all can be up-set for many reasons. Knowing those is why we study law and pass exams. Wishing the laws are written the way someone wants them to be written is a wish a dream makes.

Of course your experience probably differs.

Let's step back for a moment and take a look at what you just wrote.

Did you contradict what I wrote?  Nope!

Did you present a differing opinion to what I wrote?  Nope!

Did you further the discussion in any positive manner?  Nope!

I politely bowed out of the discussion because it appeared to be headed in this direction, yet you tried to castigate me for stepping away from this. If you have a counterpoint argument to make, then do so. But don't blindly attack me without substantiation.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 08:18 PM by Rick Christopherson »

Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2013, 08:17 PM »
I've been out for the day but I see this carries on. I'm going to offer my guess.

Festool and Protool combine, as well as the color scheme, and it's called Halloweentool. Systainers will be replaced with sheets of plastic that conform to the shape of the tool with Plug-It and CT holes cut out and each tool with come with a complimentary bottle of fake blood. This decision was made after decades of market research that determined 98.7% of professional woodworkers are keen on the holiday and celebrate it year around. After all, woodworker with a lopped off finger costume sales are at an all time high.

We later find this was only second to the idea of Oktoberfestool where a camelback-style Systainer would come out with a sippy straw for your favorite on-the-jobsite beverage consumption. However, this cannibalized sales of woodworker with a lopped off finger costumes because guys were really cutting off fingers when using tools while drunk. The Halloween costume industry lobbied for the Halloweentool option and offered monetary and other kickbacks in return for a change in marketing strategy.

Since Halloween is popular in the U.S., this was seen as a highly strategic move to secure future market share with would-be Protool antagonists.

[popcorn]

Misdirection??  Shane is trying to throw us off track here. [tongue]


Yep, I smell a rat..As far I am concerned Shane just validated all our suspicions. Can't wait to get my first Protool! We can close this thread now.  [wink]
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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2013, 08:28 PM »
Guys, feel free to speculate or whatever, but let's keep it friendly.

Skids, I just think it entertaining to read all of the theories and such. It's almost becomes conspiracy theorist-like sometimes when these threads break out. I was just having some fun with it. Please proceed.  [smile]
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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #77 on: April 14, 2013, 08:39 PM »
Shane is about to be a big tv star and is just being modest again.  The big news is The New Yankee Workshop is coming back on air sponsored by Festool.  Shane is going to be Norm's sidekick!  Can't you tell by Shane's picture they are brothers from another mother!  [big grin]
Bryan

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Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #78 on: April 14, 2013, 08:54 PM »
Guys, feel free to speculate or whatever, but let's keep it friendly.

Skids, I just think it entertaining to read all of the theories and such. It's almost becomes conspiracy theorist-like sometimes when these threads break out. I was just having some fun with it. Please proceed.  [smile]

Yep, I am with you. Although I have contributed to the bologna too!

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Offline fritter63

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #79 on: April 14, 2013, 09:22 PM »
+1 Shane

Shane Holland now has a karma level of 999,764.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #80 on: April 14, 2013, 11:47 PM »
I have posted this before but somehow it just seems fitting for this topic too .....   [big grin]






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Offline Kev

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2013, 01:20 AM »
I hope nobody is taking this too seriously ... particularly comments about Protool relative to Festool. There's possibly something I or others speculated that has been interpreted as Protool "bringing down"  Festool quality and that was never the intent of the debate - it's simply a matter of Protool tools damaging / diluting the Festool brand image if marketed under the Festool banner because of the tool's target market.

I have several Protools - one in particular, the PDC 18-4, that I chose over the T18 (and paid more for - it's much better).

I'm a DIYer, so everything I buy, I buy for my own use. I don't think the majority of Festool buyers are DIY/hobbyist buyers and would image even less of the Protool consumers percentage market share is DIY. My innocent guess would be that the overlap of trades people that buy track saws and routers to trades people that buy rotary hammers and concrete grinding machines is narrow and it is this perspective that drives my opinions and assumptions.







Offline Timtool

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #82 on: April 15, 2013, 07:10 AM »
Well something is going on, online stores are putting all their protool stock on sale as if they were trying to get rid of it quiclky.
absorption by Festool seems possible, the midi systainer could be part of the maneuver as it was introduced almost exclusively for Protool tools while it has been made in Festool colors and not in Protool colors to my knowing.
Protool makes quality stuff, but outside our little FOG world and Germany it is pretty much totally unknown. When i first saw it i thought it was a cheap no-name copy of Festool until i realized they were sister companies. Over here i have never ever seen a protool used by a pro, and i think the vast majority of woodworkers doesn't know it exist. Branding it Festool would change all that. Even though i hope there will be some way of keeping them apart, subtle or not.
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Offline fdengel

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #83 on: April 15, 2013, 09:00 AM »
Personally, I think there are some sensible aspects to this idea, though I don't really expect this.

While the whole thing is obviously a pure guess at this point, I could see it as making sense for Protool to become a separate division of Festool under a name like "Festool Industrial" (as was suggested earlier) or "Festool Elite" or some such strangeness, with the merger being to assist with distribution channels and the like, thus eliminating the stigma of having "Pro" in the name of the company (agreed that does make it sound cheap), provides a degree of name recognition to those less-in-the-know, etc.

Merging the color schemes would not be needed as this could still be considered a separate line of tools.

Ryobi tools are generally blue but some of them are green to distinguish a different line (just the first example of this that comes to mind)...


So to some degree there appears to be some potential in the idea, or at least in something like it.

Offline Kev

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #84 on: April 15, 2013, 09:27 AM »
Personally, I think there are some sensible aspects to this idea, though I don't really expect this.

While the whole thing is obviously a pure guess at this point, I could see it as making sense for Protool to become a separate division of Festool under a name like "Festool Industrial" (as was suggested earlier) or "Festool Elite" or some such strangeness, with the merger being to assist with distribution channels and the like, thus eliminating the stigma of having "Pro" in the name of the company (agreed that does make it sound cheap), provides a degree of name recognition to those less-in-the-know, etc.

Merging the color schemes would not be needed as this could still be considered a separate line of tools.

Ryobi tools are generally blue but some of them are green to distinguish a different line (just the first example of this that comes to mind)...


So to some degree there appears to be some potential in the idea, or at least in something like it.


Good points, but here anyway (Oz) there's a bit of a stigma with a "quality" tool having a different colour sibling (that have then typically been sold in a discount chain!).

It's almost worth switching the thread to "Name the future Festool/Protool line" ... just to keep this light hearted  [wink]

To keep the German feel and also keep it short, I'm going to go with ...

FESTOOL/RAU

Offline Iwood75

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #85 on: April 16, 2013, 11:10 PM »
Personally I would like to see accessory packages like the Centrotec installer kit released in NA in SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES YES +1 They shouldn't be offered only on special occasions anyway. Drill sales would increase if Centrotec Sets were always available as a crucial part of the "system." Let's hear it... Centotec! Centrotec! Centrotec! 

Joel
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Offline Iwood75

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #86 on: April 16, 2013, 11:13 PM »
Shane, are you listening?   Centrotec!  Centrotec!  Centrotec!
More is never enough.

Offline fshanno

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #87 on: April 18, 2013, 10:34 AM »
Oh, Shane is listening alright.  And it does have to do with Centrotec and it is a bombshell.  And here it is!

Later this year, at the AWFS in Vegas, with much fanfare, Festool will announce two new accessories for their industry leading cordless drill line!  Every Festool drill owner in the world will immediately rush out and buy the first item and most Festool drill owners in North America will immediately rush out and buy the second item.  Already a leader in the high end professional grade cordless drill market, this development will lock Festool in as the DOMINATE PLAYER.

First item.  A new FastFix chuck designed to work with STANDARD 1/4" BALL DETENT BITS!!!!!!  Yeh!  Yahooo!  Streamers!  Confetti!  Balloons!

Second item.  A full line of CENTROTEC SQUARE DRIVE BITS!  Again, Yeh!  Yahooo!  Streamers!  Confetti!  Balloons!

The chuck is very short adding only a few millimeters to the overall length of drill + chuck.  It also features a smooth operating one handed release and load capability.

And the square drive Centrotec bits are quite simply the finest bits of their kind on the planet.  

I'm not sure if I had the okay to make the announcement so I may be in big trouble.  I'm such a blabber mouth.  I told them not to tell me in the first place.  But there it is, what's done is done.



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Online ccarrolladams

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #88 on: April 18, 2013, 11:07 AM »
When did Festool USA change its mind and decide to exhibit at AWFS 2013 in Las Vegas in July?

I am registered and have my hotel room booked. The word I received from Festool was that they were skipping AWFS 2013 to concentrate of JLC 2013.

Online Shane Holland

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #89 on: April 18, 2013, 12:58 PM »
We will not be at AWFS.

Yes, I hear you guys. The Centrotec Set were special ordered for the US market, hence the limited quantity. I have been an advocate of offering a set full time, but I'm not the guy that makes that decision.
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Offline fshanno

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2013, 01:18 PM »
When did Festool USA change its mind and decide to exhibit at AWFS 2013 in Las Vegas in July?

I am registered and have my hotel room booked. The word I received from Festool was that they were skipping AWFS 2013 to concentrate of JLC 2013.

I'm just kidding around.  

But it gets one thinking.  There's a lot of potential in the FastFix system.  Shears, a reciprocating saw, a multi-tool, a spinning blade.  Any kind of tool that has a motor and a pistol grip on the end.

Say.  Could that be big new thing?  A Festool version of the Rigid JobMax system?  I don't know how "massive" that is but it would be interesting.
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Offline johninthecamper

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2013, 02:59 PM »
isn't there a centrotec set being offer soon,less pieces
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 04:12 PM by johninthecamper »

Offline Deansocial

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #92 on: April 30, 2013, 01:44 AM »
From the very beginning I had always felt this was an unfounded rumor for various reasons. Even in the "wishful thinking department" there are some logic flaws.

First off, consider how closely guarded secrets are within the organization, even for just a new product, let alone a major change such as this. A sales rep would not know about an organizational change such as this until it was already being implemented.

Then there is the wishful thinking:
If Protool is not available in the US or other countries, why would a name change be required to change that? It is the same infrastructure. If TTS wanted the product in a specific location, they would bring it there regardless what the sticker was on the side of the tool. Trademarks are not strong enough to prevent a product from being sold if the desire is there to do so. For example, simply prefixing the name with TTS-Protool would be sufficient.

If Protool is available in only 240 volts, why would a name change be required to change that? Or conversely, just because it gets a name change, why would it force other changes to go with it?

If Festool wanted any of the products branded under Protool to be available under Festool, they would have or could have already done that years ago. It wouldn't require a name merger to accomplish that.

Even though there could be legitimate business reasons for wanting a name-merger, none of them have been touched on in this discussion.

Its funny how unfounded rumours turn around to be videos and such of a high percentage of the tool in about 10 days.


I remember a rumour that festool was going to make an impact driver and that idea got shot down too....

Offline jonathan-m

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #93 on: April 30, 2013, 04:47 AM »
Well to further support the claim, there's a brand promotional video on youtube where you can see the protools in their new green color :)
I've also heard others to whom their dealers also confirmed. So it's definitely happening people.

I think it's a logical & smart move. Both brands are under the same group & already share parts internally.
And besides, most likely they'll be introduced as NEW! from Festool, not as rebranded from protool. 90% of people won't be the wiser.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 05:17 AM by jonathan-m »
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Offline JoggleStick

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #94 on: April 30, 2013, 05:14 AM »
I reckon they will revamp the Cordless range...

Cordless Planer
Cordless Rotex
Cordless Domino
Cordless Kapex
Cordless TS55
Cordless Portaband...

The mind boggles...
Anyway that's my 'future view' through my 'beer goggles' : hic!
It's all in the fits!

Offline Kev

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #95 on: April 30, 2013, 07:40 AM »
I reckon they will revamp the Cordless range...

Cordless Planer
Cordless Rotex
Cordless Domino
Cordless Kapex
Cordless TS55
Cordless Portaband...

The mind boggles...
Anyway that's my 'future view' through my 'beer goggles' : hic!

You forgot the compact cordless particle disintegration attachment that replaces all DC's

Offline Sean Ackerman

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #96 on: April 30, 2013, 07:46 AM »
From the very beginning I had always felt this was an unfounded rumor for various reasons. Even in the "wishful thinking department" there are some logic flaws.

First off, consider how closely guarded secrets are within the organization, even for just a new product, let alone a major change such as this. A sales rep would not know about an organizational change such as this until it was already being implemented.

Then there is the wishful thinking:
If Protool is not available in the US or other countries, why would a name change be required to change that? It is the same infrastructure. If TTS wanted the product in a specific location, they would bring it there regardless what the sticker was on the side of the tool. Trademarks are not strong enough to prevent a product from being sold if the desire is there to do so. For example, simply prefixing the name with TTS-Protool would be sufficient.

If Protool is available in only 240 volts, why would a name change be required to change that? Or conversely, just because it gets a name change, why would it force other changes to go with it?

If Festool wanted any of the products branded under Protool to be available under Festool, they would have or could have already done that years ago. It wouldn't require a name merger to accomplish that.

Even though there could be legitimate business reasons for wanting a name-merger, none of them have been touched on in this discussion.

Its funny how unfounded rumours turn around to be videos and such of a high percentage of the tool in about 10 days.


I remember a rumour that festool was going to make an impact driver and that idea got shot down too....

Rick, I personally believe there are more barriers and hurdles than you pointed out here that present themselves as significant roadblocks when considering bringing a line of product into any country, particularly the US.  It's not as simple as shipping the stuff over "regardless what the sticker was on the side of the tool."  I wish it was.

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Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #97 on: April 30, 2013, 10:33 AM »

Hilti used to be sold at Home Depot.  In my area they had a Hilti salesman there during normal work hours.  If Festool did something like that it could be huge for sales.  
  
Above written by Brice Burrell.

  Brice,

We had the same situation here in NJ, but for whatever reason/reasons it has not worked out. HD sells Hilti, but there is no support other than store salespeople. As a dealer, I know there will come a day when we will see Festool/Protool in HD, BUT Festool takes a very, slooooooooooooooooooow and long term view of their USA market. They won't do that until they feel the time is right - the support must be there, or else the tools will collect dust as there won't be anyone to explain why they should buy  a 500.00 + router rather than the 150.00 one. Now, that would hurt Festool's image!
 My opinion...and it is only my opinion - with nothing from Festool USA to support it is that we will see PROTOOL being sold in the Home Depots, not Festool.

Bob
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 10:39 AM by Bob Marino »
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Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #98 on: April 30, 2013, 10:59 AM »

Hilti used to be sold at Home Depot.  In my area they had a Hilti salesman there during normal work hours.  If Festool did something like that it could be huge for sales. 
 
Above written by Brice Burrell.

  Brice,

We had the same situation here in NJ, but for whatever reason/reasons it has not worked out. HD sells Hilti, but there is no support other than store salespeople. As a dealer, I know there will come a day when we will see Festool/Protool in HD, BUT Festool takes a very, slooooooooooooooooooow and long term view of their USA market. They won't do that until they feel the time is right - the support must be there, or else the tools will collect dust as there won't be anyone to explain why they should buy  a 500.00 + router rather than the 150.00 one. Now, that would hurt Festool's image!
 My opinion...and it is only my opinion - with nothing from Festool USA to support it is that we will see PROTOOL being sold in the Home Depots, not Festool.

Bob

I really don't think that model will work for Festool. Hilti tools don't require the level of support Festool does. The system approach is going require alot more than some retired plumber working part time at HD to understand how to sell and support. Hilti has done well through HD's rental area as well, I don't see Festool fitting in there. Maybe some of the Protool tools could go head-to-head with Hilti, but going the homecenter route for Festool would be downgrading their customer, and less aligned with a the slow, more organic growth approach they seem to have adopted for the US. Also, a quick scan of the vast majority of the demographic of folks shopping at Homecenters aren't exactly quality oriented to the level a Festool buyer is.

Over the years, before I ever knew of Festool, I did what I could to shop at suppliers who specialized in the material I needed. Lumber yards, plumbing supply, electrical etc..It's always worked well for me, and I have generally recevied great advice/support from knowledable people who typically aren't generalists. Home Depot, as it is for alot of shoppers, tends to be a place I go for bulk items, and quick in-and-out transactions. I have never gone there to learn anything about what I am buying, mostly just go for cheap prices.

My opinion, I just don't see it happening at all, or like you stated, anytime soon. If/when it does, because I am not saying it's not possible, my perception of the brand would certainly change.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 11:10 AM by skids »
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Offline Paul G

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #99 on: April 30, 2013, 11:27 AM »
I could see Festool at White Cap before Home Depot. My nearest dealer is Woodcraft, while they have a substantial Festool display the inventory of the store overall is tailored for hobbyists (whats with all the wood pen kits LOL) as opposed to builders/contractors.
+1

Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #100 on: April 30, 2013, 11:40 AM »

Hilti used to be sold at Home Depot.  In my area they had a Hilti salesman there during normal work hours.  If Festool did something like that it could be huge for sales. 
 
Above written by Brice Burrell.

  Brice,

We had the same situation here in NJ, but for whatever reason/reasons it has not worked out. HD sells Hilti, but there is no support other than store salespeople. As a dealer, I know there will come a day when we will see Festool/Protool in HD, BUT Festool takes a very, slooooooooooooooooooow and long term view of their USA market. They won't do that until they feel the time is right - the support must be there, or else the tools will collect dust as there won't be anyone to explain why they should buy  a 500.00 + router rather than the 150.00 one. Now, that would hurt Festool's image!
 My opinion...and it is only my opinion - with nothing from Festool USA to support it is that we will see PROTOOL being sold in the Home Depots, not Festool.

Bob

I really don't think that model will work for Festool. Hilti tools don't require the level of support Festool does. The system approach is going require alot more than some retired plumber working part time at HD to understand how to sell and support. Hilti has done well through HD's rental area as well, I don't see Festool fitting in there. Maybe some of the Protool tools could go head-to-head with Hilti, but going the homecenter route for Festool would be downgrading their customer, and less aligned with a the slow, more organic growth approach they seem to have adopted for the US. Also, a quick scan of the vast majority of the demographic of folks shopping at Homecenters aren't exactly quality oriented to the level a Festool buyer is.

Over the years, before I ever knew of Festool, I did what I could to shop at suppliers who specialized in the material I needed. Lumber yards, plumbing supply, electrical etc..It's always worked well for me, and I have generally recevied great advice/support from knowledable people who typically aren't generalists. Home Depot, as it is for alot of shoppers, tends to be a place I go for bulk items, and quick in-and-out transactions. I have never gone there to learn anything about what I am buying, mostly just go for cheap prices.

My opinion, I just don't see it happening at all, or like you stated, anytime soon. If/when it does, because I am not saying it's not possible, my perception of the brand would certainly change.

 Festool USA is only here as Festool USA, since about 2000 -2001 IIRC, so they are still in their infancy. Again, they look long term and will only make that type of move if all their stars and HD's are in alignment - no small task, agreed.
 True, most HD shoppers are not concerned with getting the highest quality tools, but wouldn't it be convenient for all those HD contractors and hobbyists who own Festool/Protool tools to be able to take a short ride (in most cases) and get that sander or packs of abrasives right then and there?
  Though Festool is way, way more well known today than even in the last few years, and will never sacrifice quality for initial/next quarter profit, they have no desire to retain the semi-boutique tool company status they now enjoy. They want to be huge here - as they are in Europe. But they remain on their own timetable. I think, like Amazon, the HD or Lowes are too huge a market to ignore forever.
 And I still think, we will see Protool, not Festool tools INITIALLY  in these venues.

Bob
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Online RL

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #101 on: April 30, 2013, 11:51 AM »
Bob, you don't see Festool in the European HD equivalents such as B&Q, Homebase, Obi etc. so what makes you think they'll pop up in Home Depot? I don't think it's Festools cup of tea.
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Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #102 on: April 30, 2013, 11:55 AM »
Bob, you don't see Festool in the European HD equivalents such as B&Q, Homebase, Obi etc. so what makes you think they'll pop up in Home Depot? I don't think it's Festools cup of tea.


 I see it as way too large a market to ignore forever. I think there will be different ways of selling it there - not just dumped off in the store with no good means of support.  Maybe they will do this is only select HD stores. Just to re-emphasize, I have absolutely no information from Festool about this; none. It's just my opinion.

Bob
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Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #103 on: April 30, 2013, 12:02 PM »
I really do not expect to ever see Festool sold in the big box stores.  And, I hope that I am correct.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #104 on: April 30, 2013, 12:07 PM »
I really do not expect to ever see Festool sold in the big box stores.  And, I hope that I am correct.

 I hear you Frank and am on your side- both as a customer and as a dealer. I just hope I'm wrong. Time will tell.

B
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Online Tom Bellemare

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #105 on: April 30, 2013, 12:19 PM »
I think Festool and BORG or BBRG would be an odd marriage. If my understanding of the RG's business models is even somewhat accurate, it would be tough for a company like Festool to accommodate or swallow.

Just recently, the BORG ejected Fein after giving them a try for a while...


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Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #106 on: April 30, 2013, 12:31 PM »
Bob, you don't see Festool in the European HD equivalents such as B&Q, Homebase, Obi etc. so what makes you think they'll pop up in Home Depot? I don't think it's Festools cup of tea.


 I see it as way too large a market to ignore forever. I think there will be different ways of selling it there - not just dumped off in the store with no good means of support.  Maybe they will do this is only select HD stores. Just to re-emphasize, I have absolutely no information from Festool about this; none. It's just my opinion.

Bob


Vendors who work with home depot have to meet certain requirements. Kohler's sinks are typically not the same as they are at a dedicated supplier. Or in the case of Anderson Window (who I consider a top-tier wood window Co.) what they sell on the shelf is very limited in sizes available, and knowledge on custom orders is spotty, and lead time is longer than a supplier. No sense getting Anderson through Home Depot, unless it's a Patio door in a standard size.

Festool is probably not set up to accomodate this model very well, without sacrificing quality which Homecenters ultimately ask vendors to do. At some point, economies of scale and quality come into direct conflict here in America, they just do. Maybe not the case in Europe..I just do not see HD ever becoming a distribution channel for Festool, but not impossible. Just takes one bad leadership decision.

Trying to convince someone to go to Home Depot and spend $1000 on a tool-fired vac and hand tool will be pretty tough when all they went in for was a Ryobi. And the Festool buyers account for such a tiny segment of potential buyers for HD, I can't imagine HD would even be interested at all in selling the Festool line at it's current pricing structure. 

« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 12:38 PM by skids »
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Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #107 on: April 30, 2013, 12:38 PM »
Bob, you don't see Festool in the European HD equivalents such as B&Q, Homebase, Obi etc. so what makes you think they'll pop up in Home Depot? I don't think it's Festools cup of tea.


 I see it as way too large a market to ignore forever. I think there will be different ways of selling it there - not just dumped off in the store with no good means of support.  Maybe they will do this is only select HD stores. Just to re-emphasize, I have absolutely no information from Festool about this; none. It's just my opinion.

Bob


Vendors who work with home depot have to meet certain requirements. Kohler's sinks are typically not the same as they are at a dedicated supplier. Or in the case of Anderson Window (who I consider a top-tier wood window Co.) what they sell on the shelf is very limited in sizes available, and knowledge on custom orders is spotty, and lead time is longer than a supplier. No sense getting Anderson through Home Depot, unless it's a Patio door in a standard size.

Festool is probably not set up to accomodate this model very well, without sacrificing quality which Homecenters ultimately ask vendors to do. At some point, economies of scale and quality come into direct conflict here in America, they just do. Maybe not the case in Europe..I just do not see HD ever becoming a distribution channel for Festool, but not impossible. Just takes one bad leadership decision.

Trying to convince someone to go to Home Depot and spend $1000 on a tool-fired vac and hand tool will be pretty tough when all they went in for was a Ryobi. And the Festool buyers account for such a tiny segment of potential buyers for HD, I can't imagine HD would even be interested in selling it at the Festool line at it's current pricing structure. 



 Again, we are only speculating on what Festool may or may not elect to do. I agree about having the need to have someone skilled/dedicated enough to explain to a customer why Festool tools are worth the extra coin. But I don't think Festool is thinking that they will convince a Ryobi owner hobbyist to buy those tools. That was never, is not and never will be their market. However, they may convince the slew of contractors to take a serious look.
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Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #108 on: April 30, 2013, 01:01 PM »
Bob, you don't see Festool in the European HD equivalents such as B&Q, Homebase, Obi etc. so what makes you think they'll pop up in Home Depot? I don't think it's Festools cup of tea.


 I see it as way too large a market to ignore forever. I think there will be different ways of selling it there - not just dumped off in the store with no good means of support.  Maybe they will do this is only select HD stores. Just to re-emphasize, I have absolutely no information from Festool about this; none. It's just my opinion.

Bob


Vendors who work with home depot have to meet certain requirements. Kohler's sinks are typically not the same as they are at a dedicated supplier. Or in the case of Anderson Window (who I consider a top-tier wood window Co.) what they sell on the shelf is very limited in sizes available, and knowledge on custom orders is spotty, and lead time is longer than a supplier. No sense getting Anderson through Home Depot, unless it's a Patio door in a standard size.

Festool is probably not set up to accomodate this model very well, without sacrificing quality which Homecenters ultimately ask vendors to do. At some point, economies of scale and quality come into direct conflict here in America, they just do. Maybe not the case in Europe..I just do not see HD ever becoming a distribution channel for Festool, but not impossible. Just takes one bad leadership decision.

Trying to convince someone to go to Home Depot and spend $1000 on a tool-fired vac and hand tool will be pretty tough when all they went in for was a Ryobi. And the Festool buyers account for such a tiny segment of potential buyers for HD, I can't imagine HD would even be interested in selling it at the Festool line at it's current pricing structure. 



 Again, we are only speculating on what Festool may or may not elect to do. I agree about having the need to have someone skilled/dedicated enough to explain to a customer why Festool tools are worth the extra coin. But I don't think Festool is thinking that they will convince a Ryobi owner hobbyist to buy those tools. That was never, is not and never will be their market. However, they may convince the slew of contractors to take a serious look.

Agreed, and speculating is fun.  [smile]

I recently tried to convince my local lumber yard, when the manager who I am friendly with, tried to convince me to buy a Dewalt tool, during a giant sidewalk Dewalt sponsored sale. I told him about Festool, and he was asking me about it and I told him the pricing and he immediately balked and said it just won't do well. He was interested, but in the end this comes down to how they do business and pricing. Now the reason I mention this, is because they consider themselves in direct competition with Home Depot to some extent and even they recognize what will and will not work with that type of customer. And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money. I have alot of friends in the business, some who laugh at Festool, think it's a gimmick, and some who LOVE it but refuse to spend the money on it. But you make a great point, if thats the target audience, Festool could do better to get it into their hands. Although word is spreading.

I guess my point is, price is the first obstacle for this scenario we are discussing. If Festool lowered it's prices then maybe they could be successful with the mass crowds at homecenters. Then support is an issue. Similar to when you go to Best Buy and try to get straight answers on Apple products, I would expect support would deteriorate. In the end, these are the things that I see as problems for Festool at Home Depot.

And that makes me happy since it will probably keep them out of there, and stay in the hands of knowledgable fellas like you Bob!!

« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 01:03 PM by skids »
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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #109 on: April 30, 2013, 02:02 PM »
And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money.

Here Festool is almost exclusively used by contractors and other professionals.

Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #110 on: April 30, 2013, 02:09 PM »
And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money.

Here Festool is almost exclusively used by contractors and other professionals.

Probably the case here in the states too. Although as we can see from FOG, there is a cult hobbyist following as well. Festool is just not as widely adopted here in the US with contractors. 
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 02:13 PM by skids »
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Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #111 on: April 30, 2013, 02:46 PM »
And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money.

Here Festool is almost exclusively used by contractors and other professionals.

Yep, that's their market, not the hobbyist concerned with a price point.

Bob
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Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #112 on: April 30, 2013, 02:51 PM »
And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money.

Here Festool is almost exclusively used by contractors and other professionals.

Yep, that's their market, not the hobbyist concerned with a price point.

Bob

Contractors are equally concerned with price point. Maybe moreso, where the hobbyist isn't concerned too much with margin.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 02:56 PM by skids »
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Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #113 on: April 30, 2013, 02:59 PM »
And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money.

Here Festool is almost exclusively used by contractors and other professionals.

Yep, that's their market, not the hobbyist concerned with a price point.

Bob

Contractors are equally concerned with price point. Maybe moreso, where the hobbyist isn't concerned too much with margin.

  Sure contractors have to watch the buck, but MOST also realize that buying on price, rather than quality is false economy. Not saying they will always buy top of the line, but most are smart enough to know that not the best way to save money.


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Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #114 on: April 30, 2013, 03:04 PM »
And quite honestly, I could make an argument that the contractor crowd is the toughest to convince Festool is worth the money.

Here Festool is almost exclusively used by contractors and other professionals.

Yep, that's their market, not the hobbyist concerned with a price point.

Bob

Contractors are equally concerned with price point. Maybe moreso, where the hobbyist isn't concerned too much with margin.

  Sure contractors have to watch the buck, but MOST also realize that buying on price, rather than quality is false economy. Not saying they will always buy top of the line, but most are smart enough to know that not the best way to save money.


Bob

My personal view is I agree, cheaper things aren't always the best choice. But to take it one step further. I think Festool, if I had to generalize, who it's aimed at it's not just the professional. It's the woodworker as well. And the Woodworker, by-and-large represents a large cross-section of the population; from hobbyist, to contractor, to cabinet maker. All may have varying priorities when making a purchase.

I haven't seen any other tool company able to span that wide a gap. It continues to amaze me how well the company is run, and how excellent their products are. But price, unfortunately, is a reality we all have to deal with. And with Festool, alot of times, it can come down to the law of diminishing returns, even for the professional.
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Online Peter Halle

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #115 on: April 30, 2013, 03:59 PM »
Hey, I just can't wait until they start manufacturing Festool here in the US.

Peter
The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #116 on: April 30, 2013, 04:31 PM »
Rick, I personally believe there are more barriers and hurdles than you pointed out here that present themselves as significant roadblocks when considering bringing a line of product into any country, particularly the US.  It's not as simple as shipping the stuff over "regardless what the sticker was on the side of the tool."  I wish it was.
I hear ya, when the Belgian arms factory FN Herstal, won a contract for the US army they couldn't just import the weapons, they had to open a factory in the US and build them there. It's not as complex for other stuff, but it gives a general idea of a certain protectionism possibly a disguised way of discouraging import. But in the long term that leads to a lack of competition and weakens the home market, which possibly explains why when Festool came in there was nothing on the home market able to compete in that segment.
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Offline Paul G

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #117 on: April 30, 2013, 04:52 PM »
Hey, I just can't wait until they start manufacturing Festool here in the US.

Peter

A lot of folks here would prefer it made in USA. Is that in the works?
+1

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #118 on: April 30, 2013, 05:40 PM »
Hey, I just can't wait until they start manufacturing Festool here in the US.

Peter

A lot of folks here would prefer it made in USA. Is that in the works?

I am not starting the rumor.  [big grin]

Peter
The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.

Online Tom Bellemare

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #119 on: April 30, 2013, 05:48 PM »
If it will help your rumor, Peter, I think Volkswagon has 3 manufacturing plants in Mexico and one in Tennessee...

So yes, German auto manufacturing in Mexico.


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Offline Holz-Her

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #120 on: April 30, 2013, 05:51 PM »
Look at 3:50


Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #121 on: April 30, 2013, 05:52 PM »
Hey, I just can't wait until they start manufacturing Festool here in the US.

Peter

A lot of folks here would prefer it made in USA. Is that in the works?

I'm gonna bet it is.

Bob
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Offline JoggleStick

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #122 on: April 30, 2013, 06:12 PM »
In Oz we have the big 'Warehouse' style hardware stores that are the closest to your 'Home Depot' stores. They basically sell everything gardening, hardware and handyman... It's all about 'price' and 'cheap prices' at that...

We also have specialist tool only retailers...

Over the years Festool has been available at specialist tool stores only... And even then I have been told Festool are extremely particular about which tool stores are 'allowed' to sell the tools. Festool also have their own merchandising setup- that you see in the vids and in many respects appears very similar.... Worldwide. Festool provide extensive and specialist training for those selected retailers...

There are perhaps one or two retailers that completely specialise in Festool and they set themselves up appropriately. One is in Melbourne which is 3000 Klm's from where I live. I have bought quite a few tools and accessories from there. I have also flown down for a 'hands on Festool' day. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

No, I can't see any way that Festool will sell through a 'cheap price' based retailer...
It goes against everything Festool has ever stood for....
It's all in the fits!

Offline harry_

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #123 on: April 30, 2013, 08:49 PM »
Kev! I would be more than happy to use and abuse the tools and then give honest feedback  [big grin]



This protool/festool merging doesn't really affect me to be honest.  I use 240v tools so protool being 240v doesn't affect me.
  I can buy protool tools just as easy as festool tools so no problem there.  
 My protool batteries fit my festool jigsaw and drill and my festool batteries fit my protools. 

So to me if they where to change over it would only cosmetic to me.

That's the million dollar question.  Will this turn out to be a cosmetic change only or will it have a bigger impact?  Who knows, it might be a change that pushes the Festool brand to new markets, more so here in the States.  That could be great for Festool and in turn all of us with an even broader range of tools in the future. 

Maybe we can get the reciprocating saw after all?  [poke]
Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).

Offline Scott B.

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #124 on: April 30, 2013, 08:57 PM »
I wish I could tell you guys that the ProTool Prototype 54v LI battery powers a CT Midi for 6 hours. But I can't.  [sad]

Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #125 on: April 30, 2013, 09:42 PM »
In Oz we have the big 'Warehouse' style hardware stores that are the closest to your 'Home Depot' stores. They basically sell everything gardening, hardware and handyman... It's all about 'price' and 'cheap prices' at that...

We also have specialist tool only retailers...

Over the years Festool has been available at specialist tool stores only... And even then I have been told Festool are extremely particular about which tool stores are 'allowed' to sell the tools. Festool also have their own merchandising setup- that you see in the vids and in many respects appears very similar.... Worldwide. Festool provide extensive and specialist training for those selected retailers...

There are perhaps one or two retailers that completely specialise in Festool and they set themselves up appropriately. One is in Melbourne which is 3000 Klm's from where I live. I have bought quite a few tools and accessories from there. I have also flown down for a 'hands on Festool' day. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

No, I can't see any way that Festool will sell through a 'cheap price' based retailer...
It goes against everything Festool has ever stood for....

 Who knows for sure? No  one. But I am betting that we see Protools in HD in the next few years.

Bobc
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Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #126 on: April 30, 2013, 09:57 PM »
In Oz we have the big 'Warehouse' style hardware stores that are the closest to your 'Home Depot' stores. They basically sell everything gardening, hardware and handyman... It's all about 'price' and 'cheap prices' at that...

We also have specialist tool only retailers...

Over the years Festool has been available at specialist tool stores only... And even then I have been told Festool are extremely particular about which tool stores are 'allowed' to sell the tools. Festool also have their own merchandising setup- that you see in the vids and in many respects appears very similar.... Worldwide. Festool provide extensive and specialist training for those selected retailers...

There are perhaps one or two retailers that completely specialise in Festool and they set themselves up appropriately. One is in Melbourne which is 3000 Klm's from where I live. I have bought quite a few tools and accessories from there. I have also flown down for a 'hands on Festool' day. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

No, I can't see any way that Festool will sell through a 'cheap price' based retailer...
It goes against everything Festool has ever stood for....

 Who knows for sure? No  one. But I am betting that we see Protools in HD in the next few years.

Bobc


I thought Protool was going away and being rebranded Festool? What am I missing.
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Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #127 on: April 30, 2013, 10:01 PM »

[/quote]


I thought Protool was going away and being rebranded Festool? What am I missing.
[/quote]

 Nothing, it's just my 2 cents, nothing  more.

B
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Offline Timtool

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #128 on: May 01, 2013, 02:32 AM »
On those Narex videos you can still see Protool, so maybe the brand isn't disappearing, and Festool is just rebadging and taking their tools under it's name to introduce them with a bigger boom on foreign markets.
It could also be that Festool created Protool as an intermediary brand based on Narex technology until they had reached a hight enough quality/system integration level to be able to absorb them into Festool. And the time seems right.

I don't think it is likely to see Festool/protool in BORG, it would have to be a Festool USA choice if they have that power which i think they don't, because the mothership strategy has always been to only sell them in authorized shops that specialize in professional tools. In Europe you cannot find professional quality grade tools in big box stores, only cheap DIY made in china stuff for the big public. I have to drive 25 km to find a Festool shop in shop store,(actually i have 4 Festool dealers within that range but only one that carries the whole range) may seem close on USA scale but that's an expedition on a Belgian scale!  [tongue]
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Offline Holz-Her

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #129 on: May 23, 2013, 02:49 PM »
The Protool brand will be discontinued as of 12/31/2013.
The new Festool labeled former Protool tools will be on display on the Festool Roadshow which will travel throughout Europe in 2013.

Offline skids

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #130 on: May 23, 2013, 02:55 PM »
The Protool brand will be discontinued as of 12/31/2013.
The new Festool labeled former Protool tools will be on display on the Festool Roadshow which will travel throughout Europe in 2013.

So US arrival in 2014 then?
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Online ccarrolladams

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #131 on: May 23, 2013, 04:06 PM »
The Protool brand will be discontinued as of 12/31/2013.
The new Festool labeled former Protool tools will be on display on the Festool Roadshow which will travel throughout Europe in 2013.

Is this an authorized statement from TTS or the opinion of a person not authorized to make TTS statements?

Offline Holz-Her

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #132 on: May 23, 2013, 04:26 PM »
The Protool brand will be discontinued as of 12/31/2013.
The new Festool labeled former Protool tools will be on display on the Festool Roadshow which will travel throughout Europe in 2013.

So US arrival in 2014 then?
I don´t know about the plans for the US

The Protool brand will be discontinued as of 12/31/2013.
The new Festool labeled former Protool tools will be on display on the Festool Roadshow which will travel throughout Europe in 2013.

Is this an authorized statement from TTS or the opinion of a person not authorized to make TTS statements?

the latter  :)
There is a press release in Germany which states that Protool will be discontinued. The date and the info that not all Tools will be continued by Festool as well as the info that the truck/Roadshow will travel through Germany in August and Show the new Tools is from my dealer who got the info from his Festool rep.

Offline jonathan-m

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #133 on: May 23, 2013, 05:44 PM »
ccarrolladams, in Europe Festool has apparantly started giving presentations to their dealer network shedding some more light on merger.

Basically, the Festool image is very strong and the Protool image isn't. Research has shown people are hesitant to buy something labeled Protool, but would buy it if it was labeled Festool.
TTS isn't willing to invest the funds into Protool marketing to improve that image. Instead Protool is being discontinued and about half of the line-up will be absorbed by Festool.
Just off the top of my head, from what I can remember, everything where TTS thinks Festool & Protool overlap & most of the general contracting equipment is being discontinued.

Roughly it boils down to the following:
Just about all the circular saws will be discontinued.
The jigsaws will be discontinued.
The concrete grinders will be rebranded.
The chainsaws will most likely be rebranded.
The vaccuums will be discontinued, with the exception of VCP 360 & VCP 170. Those will be rebranded.
The drills are a bit of a mixed bag. The compact line gets discontinued. The PDC and screw gun will be rebranded.
The angle grinders will be discontinued.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 06:05 PM by jonathan-m »
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Online Alex

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #134 on: May 23, 2013, 06:07 PM »
Aye, if they're going to discontinue a lot of tools it's not so good news. Was hoping to score a Festool 230 mm angle grinder.

Offline jonathan-m

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #135 on: May 23, 2013, 06:10 PM »
Aye, if they're going to discontinue a lot of tools it's not so good news. Was hoping to score a Festool 230 mm angle grinder.

Yeah I too hope they'll come back on some of those decisions :(
Anyway,  ??? so just buy the Protool then...
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Offline Kev

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #136 on: May 23, 2013, 07:27 PM »
Aye, if they're going to discontinue a lot of tools it's not so good news. Was hoping to score a Festool 230 mm angle grinder.

Yeah I too hope they'll come back on some of those decisions :(
Anyway,  ??? so just buy the Protool then...

I'm toying with buying a Protool 230mm angle grinder right now. There's a modest discount I can grab one for at the moment. Urghhh.

Offline GPowers

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #137 on: May 23, 2013, 11:00 PM »
I'm toying with buying a Protool 230mm angle grinder right now. There's a modest discount I can grab one for at the moment. Urghhh.
Wonder if Festool will cover the warranty after Protool is gone?
Greg Powers
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Offline Kev

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #138 on: May 24, 2013, 01:10 AM »
I'm toying with buying a Protool 230mm angle grinder right now. There's a modest discount I can grab one for at the moment. Urghhh.
Wonder if Festool will cover the warranty after Protool is gone?

They will.

Went in with grinder intent ... walked out with a CHP 26



I can't resist Festool or Protool specials [embarassed]

Offline optimistisch

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #139 on: May 24, 2013, 01:39 AM »
this is made by Kress, a small company from Germany.
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Offline Kev

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #140 on: May 24, 2013, 01:48 AM »
this is made by Kress, a small company from Germany.

That surprised me but yes, you're right, it's identical !

I've wanted a light duty rotary for a while ... my only criteria was able to chisel and to fit in a systainer. This one came in a systainer (one of the old ones though).

Offline jonathan-m

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #141 on: May 24, 2013, 02:39 AM »
Kress must make some quality drills then.
Something else I've noticed is that the replaceable power cords looks a lot like the one on the Mafell drill. Which leads me to believe the Mafell is in fact a Kress drill.
Kress also seems to have something similar to Festools right angle & centrotec. Interesting!
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Offline optimistisch

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #142 on: May 24, 2013, 04:03 AM »
Kress must make some quality drills then.
Something else I've noticed is that the replaceable power cords looks a lot like the one on the Mafell drill. Which leads me to believe the Mafell is in fact a Kress drill.
Kress also seems to have something similar to Festools right angle & centrotec. Interesting!

You got it, the Mafell drill is a OEM Kress. Surprisingly that TTS as a group is selling competitors plug systems.
ETS125EQ+, TS55EBQ+, OF2200EB & Metric Set, DF500Q Set,  C12 Li 1,3+, PRECISIO CS 50 with an Sliding table, RO150FEQ+
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Offline Starfl0

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #143 on: May 30, 2013, 11:44 AM »
In the same way, the CHP45 SDS MAX hammer drill is a SPIT 352...

Festool cordless sds+ hammer drill is going on for 2014...




Come from France, sorry for my English...
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Offline SittingElf

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #144 on: May 30, 2013, 12:40 PM »
Kress must make some quality drills then.
Something else I've noticed is that the replaceable power cords looks a lot like the one on the Mafell drill. Which leads me to believe the Mafell is in fact a Kress drill.
Kress also seems to have something similar to Festools right angle & centrotec. Interesting!

You got it, the Mafell drill is a OEM Kress. Surprisingly that TTS as a group is selling competitors plug systems.

Kress is another German company full of engineering marvels!  They also produce one of the best CNC router motors on the planet. I will be putting one in my CNC-STEP 1000/T CNC when I order it in a couple of months. (CNC-STEP is ANOTHER fab German company).

Someone earlier stated they couldn't wait for Protool to manufacture in the USA... ARE YOU KIDDING ME???  Jobs aside, there is no comparing German/Austrian/Italian quality engineering and manufacture with US companies. I'm sorry...I'm American, but there ain't no way with the labor force and work ethic here that we could produce the quality and quantity of the same items made in Germany.  There are SMALL U.S. companies that produce exceptional products, but when you start mass manufacturing in the U.S., quality definitely suffers.

It's why I'm going, or have already gone Felder/Hammer (Austria), Festool, CNC-STEP,(Both German) Laguna Italian BS, LeapFrog 3D Printing (Dutch), and Bessey clamps (German). All fantastic, well-engineered, and superbly manufactured products. If Festool was Mfr'd in the USA, I doubt seriously that we would be seeing the products as they are now.  Just my $.02
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Offline GhostFist

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #145 on: May 30, 2013, 12:53 PM »
My thoughts exactly

Offline jimbo51

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #146 on: May 30, 2013, 07:55 PM »
At least some Bessey brand clamps are made in China. Also, I understand that the EU rules on country of origin place the emphasis on where more value is added to the product. A company in Austria can buy drill blanks from China at X price then state that they add 3X value by sharpening them. Thus they can claim made in Austria. I recall this was reported in Fine Woodworking years ago when Austrian and Chinese brand drills had identical steel analyses.

Offline Kev

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #147 on: May 30, 2013, 08:43 PM »
At least some Bessey brand clamps are made in China. Also, I understand that the EU rules on country of origin place the emphasis on where more value is added to the product. A company in Austria can buy drill blanks from China at X price then state that they add 3X value by sharpening them. Thus they can claim made in Austria. I recall this was reported in Fine Woodworking years ago when Austrian and Chinese brand drills had identical steel analyses.

They're probably using Australian iron ore !!  [big grin]

Offline JoggleStick

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #148 on: May 30, 2013, 10:02 PM »
Aussie Aussie Aussie oi oi oi

Sorry couldn't resist, so sad... : lurk
It's all in the fits!

Offline JoggleStick

  • Posts: 152
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #149 on: June 01, 2013, 10:17 PM »
On a slightly more serious note...
On another thread @Kev has just recently bought a Protool 9" Grinder, with a diamond cutting (kit) systainer, track, etc
In the pics @Kev posted, and looking at the Protool specs, his grinder is the identical twin brother of a grinder I bought a few years ago now; branded Atlas Copco.
I remember I was hesitant to buy this 'brand', at the time, but I was and still do buy a fair bit of gear from this large specialist power tool supplier (doesn't stock Festool, etc) and as usual I was in no way disappointed with the tool. In fact, it is the best 9" grinder I have ever bought and I've worn out and bought quite a few....
My point is this....
Companies invest a fortune to build a 'brand' and Festool is one brand I would and often do buy tools completely sight unseen... (Until very recently I've had to travel 25 Klm's to the nearest full range Festool/Protool shop)...

However, we have no clue what deals and re-branding is done behind the scenes although occasionally this is 'discovered', in time. Like my example above. Who knows  whether the grinder is originally Protool or a third-party? One thing is certain and that is the integration of the diamond cutting track system that takes the Protool option to a whole other level.
Perhaps Festool will re-brand their own Protool brand as a North American regional solution? Time will tell what that means to open up the tool catalogue for you guys?
I suppose the label itself on the tool means little of itself, as long as the R&D, etc gets done.  It would be very disappointing to see 'ranges' of tools dropped because of 'production efficiencies', etc
It's all in the fits!

Online Alex

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #150 on: June 02, 2013, 04:35 AM »
However, we have no clue what deals and re-branding is done behind the scenes although occasionally this is 'discovered', in time.

You make it sound like it's a very bad thing to rebrand. Why should that be? Companies do it all the time.

You'd think that if a brand like Festool/Protool wants to rebrand a tool under it's own name there is some quality control in place. Like they have their own engineers look at the designs, material specs and mechanical properties. Like they get a bunch of those tools and put them through some rigorous testing to see if they uphold to the quality standard they want to have as a brand.


Offline Deansocial

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #151 on: June 02, 2013, 04:53 AM »
I remeber buying a plunge saw when all the large circular saws sold now under the protool name were branded festool. They are only going back to what it was before

Offline Holz-Her

  • Posts: 32
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #152 on: June 02, 2013, 03:03 PM »
the only tools Festool offers which are not made by Festool are the Pollux 180, RAS 180 (Motor) and Rustofix RAS 180 (Motor)

Online ccarrolladams

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Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #153 on: June 02, 2013, 07:40 PM »
the only tools Festool offers which are not made by Festool are the Pollux 180, RAS 180 (Motor) and Rustofix RAS 180 (Motor)

What a fascinating post.

Your answer indicates you have inside information about TTS and Festool.

Could you explain the source of this inside information? Are you authorized by TTS to release this information to the public and customers?

Offline JoggleStick

  • Posts: 152
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #154 on: June 03, 2013, 03:51 AM »
However, we have no clue what deals and re-branding is done behind the scenes although occasionally this is 'discovered', in time.

You make it sound like it's a very bad thing to rebrand. Why should that be? Companies do it all the time.

You'd think that if a brand like Festool/Protool wants to rebrand a tool under it's own name there is some quality control in place. Like they have their own engineers look at the designs, material specs and mechanical properties. Like they get a bunch of those tools and put them through some rigorous testing to see if they uphold to the quality standard they want to have as a brand.

@Alex,
I'm not sure why you took a 'negative' from my post, the example I gave of the Atlas Copco Grinder and  Protool Grinder recently purchased by @Kev was, I thought and intended, a very positive one??? BUT... We all know examples of great tools being compromised when taken over by others.... Such as Elu becoming Black & Decker becoming De Walt... And even then the 'news' is not all bad.
Anyway, without splitting hairs, I tried to take a 'Neutral' position in my post so I guess it can and was read 'either way'
I hope and trust and believe Festool will 'do the right thing'...

In reality, there will most likely be positives and negatives, such is life? Particularly if the bean counters have more say than the R&D guys, don't you think?

One thing is for certain, it will all come out in the wash!
It's all in the fits!

Offline Holz-Her

  • Posts: 32
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #155 on: June 03, 2013, 04:36 AM »
the only tools Festool offers which are not made by Festool are the Pollux 180, RAS 180 (Motor) and Rustofix RAS 180 (Motor)

What a fascinating post.

Your answer indicates you have inside information about TTS and Festool.

Could you explain the source of this inside information? Are you authorized by TTS to release this information to the public and customers?
No, i don´t.... but i know these motors are supplied by Flex from Germany.... no secret...

Online Alex

  • Posts: 3453
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #156 on: June 03, 2013, 05:00 AM »
However, we have no clue what deals and re-branding is done behind the scenes although occasionally this is 'discovered', in time.

You make it sound like it's a very bad thing to rebrand. Why should that be? Companies do it all the time.

You'd think that if a brand like Festool/Protool wants to rebrand a tool under it's own name there is some quality control in place. Like they have their own engineers look at the designs, material specs and mechanical properties. Like they get a bunch of those tools and put them through some rigorous testing to see if they uphold to the quality standard they want to have as a brand.

@Alex,
I'm not sure why you took a 'negative' from my post,

Because of the "although occasionally this is discovered, in time" remark. "Discovering something in time" generally means you want to act to avoid negative consequences.

Thanks for the clarification, but no big deal if you didn't mean it that way, we're just having a friendly chat.  [smile]

Offline JoggleStick

  • Posts: 152
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #157 on: June 03, 2013, 05:07 AM »
Yep... +1 beer and yeah a schnapps chaser to boot....
It's all in the fits!

Offline fritter63

  • Posts: 1133
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #158 on: June 08, 2013, 07:47 PM »
I reckon they will revamp the Cordless range...

Cordless Planer
Cordless Rotex
Cordless Domino
Cordless Kapex
Cordless TS55
Cordless Portaband...

The mind boggles...
Anyway that's my 'future view' through my 'beer goggles' : hic!

You forgot the cordless battery charger. That would be huge.

Offline JoggleStick

  • Posts: 152
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #159 on: June 09, 2013, 02:59 AM »
Ha Ha... That would be a solar charger.... : deal
It's all in the fits!

Offline fdengel

  • Posts: 777
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #160 on: June 11, 2013, 03:01 PM »
You forgot the cordless battery charger. That would be huge.

Can it charge its own batteries?

Offline Starfl0

  • Posts: 47
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #161 on: June 14, 2013, 06:32 AM »
Hilti just released a cordless vacuum (20 and 40 liters)... so everything is possible  ;D
Come from France, sorry for my English...
Begin with the TS55 like almost everyone, now i can't stop !

Offline Etanrok

  • Posts: 2
Re: Protool to be absorbed by Festool?
« Reply #162 on: June 22, 2013, 05:04 PM »
Trust me... dont worry about protool quality. the PDC is a gift from the gods. if this is happening Im really excited. Protool is such a generic name but Festool is history and strong branding.
My addiction as a Plumber:
PDC 18-4 4.2
T15+3 Li 3.0 & Carvex 420 PSC in Sys 3 combo TL DF
Cleantex CTL mini
Syslite
Dsc AG 230 + fs 800/2
Protool angle grinder + DSG AG 125 in Sys 2 TL DF
Hilti TE7-c Rotary Hammer Drill
Hilti TE70 Combihammer
Hilti PMC 46 Laser kit
3x SYS 1 TL (self feeds, accessories and Fein multimaster)
1x SYS 2 TL (panasonic 14.4v drill + impact driver)
1x SYS 3 TL (Milwaukee M12) set of 5 tools)
1x SYS 4 TL (Hitatchi Circular saw):
Previous Festool drills: CDD 12(2006-2007) C12 EC (2007-2010) t 18 (2011-13)