Having trouble with your Festool power tool? Well, we're here to help you. Before posting to the forum, give us a chance to diagnose and resolve your issue. In the U.S. and Canada, call us toll-free at 888-337-8600 on Monday-Friday between 8a-5p EST or contact us via email at service@festoolusa.com. For other countries, please visit http://www.festool.com for contact information for your local Festool service department.

Author Topic: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)  (Read 3232 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jamiljonna

  • Posts: 14
Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« on: February 28, 2017, 09:24 PM »
Hello,

I made an unfortunate (and potentially very costly) mistake with an order I just received. I was focused on how good of a deal the Festool 561417/561418 KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v) was, and looked over the fact that the motor is 50 hertz. I honestly thought the "110v" option meant I would be shipped a model that could be used here in the U.S.

The label on the box (which obviously I could not see) says clearly that the saw is not made for use in North America. However, I do not blame them for the confusion because they forwarded nearly all of my questions to their Festool representative. The problem was that their Festool representative was taking very long to get back to them with answers to my questions. So after looking through the descriptions myself (rather carefully I thought), I pulled the trigger.

I want to be clear that I am extremely satisfied with the service I was given by the vendor. Which is why I have no idea what to do now. I am not going to void my warranty by trying to swap out the motor, and returning the saw is not really an option given the shipping cost.

If anyone has any ideas I would very much like to find a solution as soon as possible.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 12:01 PM by jamiljonna »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1115
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2017, 09:31 PM »
While that frequency is not optimal, it will still work in the US. However, you will void the warranty by using it here I think. Ask FOG members who use euro tools. I believe @Dovetail65 is one of them.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 09:39 PM by Svar »

Offline jamiljonna

  • Posts: 14
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2017, 09:40 PM »
While that frequency is not optimal, it will still work in the US. However, you will void the warranty by using it here.

Hello @Svar, yes, that is what I figured. My electrician also told me it would probably work but also said running the motor at 50hz would probably make the blade spin faster, and probably cause the motor to fail sooner rather than later.

That said, I just found this part from M&M tools, which appears to be the correct motor: Festool FIELD ASSY KS 120 EB 120V 494970 Can you confirm?

Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1058
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2017, 10:25 PM »
You will not have any warranty coverage in the US, whether you swap the motor or not, so any issue you may have wont be covered and could be a very costly mistake.  I'm not trying to judge you, it's your money, but why wouldn't you buy the Kapex from one of the dealers in the US?
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino DF 500, 2 domino systainers, ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, (2) OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1164
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2017, 10:37 PM »
While that frequency is not optimal, it will still work in the US. However, you will void the warranty by using it here.

Hello @Svar, yes, that is what I figured. My electrician also told me it would probably work but also said running the motor at 50hz would probably make the blade spin faster, and probably cause the motor to fail sooner rather than later.

That said, I just found this part from M&M tools, which appears to be the correct motor: Festool FIELD ASSY KS 120 EB 120V 494970 Can you confirm?

$85 for a Kapex motor?  I doubt it.  The description says something about compatibility with a router?

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1115
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2017, 11:17 PM »
I think you need to consult an electrical engineer, not just an electrician, who clearly understands the risks involved beyond anecdotal evidence. @Rick Christopherson might chime in. Evaluate that risk and then either ship it back or forget it and start using it. No way would I begin replacing parts. That link you showed is just stator if its the right part at all.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 11:20 PM by Svar »

Offline jamiljonna

  • Posts: 14
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2017, 12:03 AM »
You will not have any warranty coverage in the US, whether you swap the motor or not, so any issue you may have wont be covered and could be a very costly mistake.  I'm not trying to judge you, it's your money, but why wouldn't you buy the Kapex from one of the dealers in the US?

I'm not trying to judge me either—I'm asking for advice. I have already contacted the vendor so I am simply weighing my options at the moment. I explained above why I chose to buy the saw from EA: it was much less expensive with the exchange (at least when I made the purchase).

I was hoping this sort of problem had come up before, and that a Festool representative might have a suggestion. Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 12:06 AM by jamiljonna »

Offline Rick Christopherson

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1559
    • http://www.rts-engineering.com/
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2017, 02:13 AM »
Don't freak out, you're fine. The saw will operate just the same as the NA versions. (Your electrician was wrong.)

If it makes you feel any better, I own the first Kapex that ever crossed the pond (March 2007), and it of course was European voltage. It's a universal motor and doesn't care about frequency.

Offline jamiljonna

  • Posts: 14
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2017, 07:45 AM »
It's a universal motor and doesn't care about frequency.

Thank you @Rick Christopherson, that is nice to hear. I assume you agree with others who have said that doing so will void my warranty. My experience suggests that I will probably not need it if I use the tool properly. Thanks again.

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 834
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2017, 08:10 AM »
It's a universal motor and doesn't care about frequency.

Thank you @Rick Christopherson, that is nice to hear. I assume you agree with others who have said that doing so will void my warranty. My experience suggests that I will probably not need it if I use the tool properly. Thanks again.

Just curious? Did you read the plethora of posts about the Kapex motors failing before you imported such an expensive tool without a warranty?

Offline toolfest.co.uk

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 617
    • toolfest.co.uk
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2017, 08:33 AM »
Yep, you've got yourself in a bit of a pickle there.

I'm sure it will be fine though, use it and keep your fingers crossed.

Best regards

Warren
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 12:27 PM by toolfest.co.uk »
www.toolfest.co.uk for FESTOOL products

www.systemcontainer.co.uk for TANOS products

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 490
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2017, 08:37 AM »
Don't freak out, you're fine. The saw will operate just the same as the NA versions. (Your electrician was wrong.)

If it makes you feel any better, I own the first Kapex that ever crossed the pond (March 2007), and it of course was European voltage. It's a universal motor and doesn't care about frequency.

That is correct. A lot of motors (used in tools and other items) are universal motors and will work at 50 or 60 Hz.

Offline jamiljonna

  • Posts: 14
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 02:25 PM »
Just curious? Did you read the plethora of posts about the Kapex motors failing before you imported such an expensive tool without a warranty?

No, I did not. Can you explain? Which motors are problematic? All? The 50hz in particular? Or perhaps you simply meant to point out that it would be a bad idea to void the warranty. I hear you—I will do more homework next time.

For those that say it will work fine, it is important to note that the specs on the motor state 50hz. There is no range given. I will try to work with the vendor to resolve the issue.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1115
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2017, 02:39 PM »
Just curious? Did you read the plethora of posts about the Kapex motors failing before you imported such an expensive tool without a warranty?
No, I did not. Can you explain? Which motors are problematic? All? The 50hz in particular?
There has been a lot of reports of failing motors on US model Kapex KS120. Festool does not acknowledge any systematic problem. However, based on anecdotal evidence Kapex stands out among other tools in that respect. So, after all you might be better off with imported model. I would trust Rick with his advise. He is an electrical engineer and a former Festool employee consultant.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 02:46 PM by Svar »

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 558
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2017, 03:39 PM »
Yea seriously your fine it's a universal motor. Rick has been running his off of US power since 2007 so that's a pretty good sign for you.

I however would not have bought a kapex without a warranty no matter what.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1370
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2017, 04:00 PM »
If you imported a Festool from Europe or the UK into the USA - you have no warranty to worry about voiding.   

Actually that's not accurate - Festool N.A. will not be obliged to honor the warranty you have.  Sending your saw back to Europe for warranty work will likely be too costly to avail yourself of it.

Bottom line is - you've rolled the dice already. You might as well see where they land.

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 834
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2017, 04:48 PM »
Just curious? Did you read the plethora of posts about the Kapex motors failing before you imported such an expensive tool without a warranty?
No, I did not. Can you explain? Which motors are problematic? All? The 50hz in particular?
There has been a lot of reports of failing motors on US model Kapex KS120. Festool does not acknowledge any systematic problem. However, based on anecdotal evidence Kapex stands out among other tools in that respect. So, after all you might be better off with imported model. I would trust Rick with his advise. He is an electrical engineer and a former Festool employee consultant.

I agree 100% that Rick's advice is correct and I wasn't questioning that, but it is a separate and independent point to the faults.

As to the faults I believe it's more than anecdotal, whilst we don't have an official response or numbers, the observed reports of failed Kapex motors on this forum is significantly higher than any other tool and that's a big deal considering it's one of their more expensive tools sold in lower volume than, for example, the TS 55.

To the OP, basically any 110v motor is considered by many to effectively be a ticking time bomb of pending failure. Festool have been mostly silent on the issue apart from one suggestion that repeated quick cuts in thin stock might be the issue, which is a bit of an issue for a highly accurate trim saw, designed for repeat cuts; as opposed to a work horse saw designed for cutting 2x12.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 04:52 PM by bobfog »

Offline amt

  • Posts: 362
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2017, 05:11 PM »
I doubt the motor is even a different part for the US model (can anyone confirm?).

If the recent motor issues are related to 110/120v versions only, I wonder if anyone considered running the European market 240v on 240v in north America.  I guess it would greatly limit where you could plug in if you are mobile.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 149
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2017, 09:35 PM »
I think it is more reasonable to state that there have been anecdotal reports on this site of Kapex 110V motors failing in numbers of dozens(?).  They are anecdotal in that they are individual reports that provide insufficient background and detail for any systemic root cause analysis based on the information provided.  I don't know but I would guess that there are at least thousands of 110V Kapex saws in use in the USA, perhaps tens of thousands.  In any case at this point the failure rate is likely to be quite low, so suggesting that any 110V Kapex is a ticking time bomb is at least an exaggeration.

It would be useful for Festool to share some high level information like gross failure rates since, absent these hard facts it is only natural for panic to set in among Kapex owners.  But US legal provisions being what they are, Festool's reticence may be rational though unfortunate.

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 834
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2017, 03:45 AM »
There are many parts that are anecdotal, is it just 110v or is 240v also an issue, does.allowing the blade to run fully up to speed before commencing the cut have a beneficial effect, does plugging into the wall directly vs running through a vac have a benefit, etc, etc. Buy what isn't anecdotal is that the Kapex does have a higher reported failure rate on the FOG than any other tools and is also one of Festools more expensive tools that (unless Festool has the worlds first backwards business model) will sell in lower quantity than cheaper products in the range.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 149
Re: Unfortunate mistake with KAPEX KS 120 UG-Set GB (110v)
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2017, 07:05 AM »
Buy what isn't anecdotal is that the Kapex does have a higher reported failure rate on the FOG than any other tools and is also one of Festools more expensive tools...

No, it's really all anecdotal although your points are quite likely valid, the only non-anecdotal perspective on this is exclusively Festool's so far.  Only they know how many Kapex are out there, how many have failed (at least those sent back for warranty repair or 30 day refund), what the failure rate growth and cumulative rate are and whether failures are clustered by build date or related to supplier factors.  Not to mention that there are likely many more Kapex owners who don't participate on the FOG, although a Kapex failure would certainly incentivize an owner to find this site and share his story.  We're like a group of guys sitting at the bar trading stories about car breakdowns, cellphone glitches or the shortcomings of our better-halfs....it's interesting and engaging but it isn't science!