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Author Topic: USA WEBSITE  (Read 4766 times)

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Offline rand17

  • Posts: 19
USA WEBSITE
« on: April 12, 2017, 10:30 AM »
So is this new USA website an April fools joke??? HAHAHA!!! ok jokes over PLEASE TURN ON THE OLD WEBSITE!!!!....

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5453
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2017, 11:10 AM »
I have the same feeling with the European websites which have the same design. It's simply terrible now, navigation is worse than ever and the information provided is absolutely miniscule.

Offline zapdafish

  • Posts: 428
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2017, 11:25 AM »

We use cookies to optimise the design of our websites. By continuing your visit on the website, you consent to the use of cookies.

Needless to say I did not consent and continue.
CT22, TS55, Kapex, RO150, Domino, RS 2 E

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 529
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2017, 11:40 AM »
Yikes.

If you're going to bash the new website, at least provide some constructive feedback on how it could be improved.  I believe Shane used to work on it when he was at Festool and now maybe it's Tyler's domain?  At least provide the feedback in a manner in which someone could benefit from it.

"What you have to do tomorrow, do today.  What you have to do today, do now."  - a wise grandfather who was clearly talking about purchasing Festools

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2017, 01:36 PM »
Hi Everyone

I saw all of this on the UK web site some time ago:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/hey-what-happened-to-phill-buckley/msg501782/#msg501782

I really do not like what has been done. Maybe it is a work in progress and can improve but it is a long way from being user friendly or usable on a PC.

Perhaps the iPhone users will find it useful.

Peter

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1297
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2017, 04:31 PM »
Maybe they got the same bozo that did Shane's website to these ?

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2017, 04:54 PM »
Hi
 Like anything it takes time to settle and the UK version of the website is gradually becoming quicker to load - I guess some 'gremlins' lurk in the system but I am sure all will be good soon.
rg
Phil

I know absolutely nothing on how websites work or the complexity of launching  a new website and unfortunately the above is all I can offer on this.....
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline TylerC

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Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2017, 05:07 PM »

Product information has been neutered. PDF manuals hard to find or non existent unless you know they are now in Ekat, which is anti-common sense. Put them with the product page day 1.


Manuals are also here:
https://www.festoolusa.com/service/owners-manuals

It doesn't have all of them yet -- neither did the old site -- but more are being adding.


As an example, the TS75 product page requires 5 page downs to view everything on a 21" monitor. Everything can fit in 2 with more effort at page design. Too much wasted screen real estate doing nothing.


The in-page navigation should help minimize the amount of scrolling you need to do.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1906
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2017, 05:10 PM »
Perhaps the iPhone users will find it useful.

Unfortunately not this iphone user. I'm generally not a fan of blocking mobile users from using the PC version of a site. There's times I want the choice and it's not an option.
+1

Offline TylerC

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Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2017, 06:28 PM »
@bnaboatbuilder Instead of going line-by-line through your feedback, I'll make a couple notes of my own:

1. "Operation tool" just means that tool itself. The phrasing ("operation tool") doesn't translate well to American English, and we will update it. It's probably self-evident that you get the bare tool when you purchase a tool set, but providing self-evident info is probably better than no providing necessary info.
2. The "Includes" and "Accessories" sections are both being corrected now by the HQ and US teams.
3. There are some obviously some photos missing from the Functions section. This is also being addressed. The text in this section is identical to what was on the old website.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 01:07 PM by TylerC »

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1297
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2017, 07:28 PM »
while you're taking notes:

the artwork needs to be redone - looks like someone just cut and pasted low res. photos on the new site.

might be ok on a smart phone , but they are grainy and blurry on a desktop or ipad.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 633
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2017, 07:32 PM »
Guess they need to spend some more time running this new website in the sandbox and work out some bugs. Give some trusted, knowledgeable FOG members access and let them play and try to break things and find out what works and what doesn't.

Someone who worked on the design is not likely to catch these types of errors or shortcomings as their brain is already wired to know what to expect and how it should behave because they built it. They will jump right past what will be a problem for the average user and never see the problem. Likewise when you get a couple hundred people running different hardware and many variations of an OS and a half dozen versions if each popular browser you'll turn up a whole batch of problems you never thought could occur.

And then you'll get to fix all that BEFORE you go live.

Get a sandbox server set up and play in it.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 774
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2017, 07:38 PM »
The normal expression is "Don't fix it if it ain't broke" but apparently for Festool IT it's "Break it so we can fix it"

Offline w802h

  • Posts: 202
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2017, 08:40 PM »
If I was rolling out a website, I would solicit opinions of what people liked and what needed improvement, make a plan, pull the whole think together, test it, and then when I was confidant with the product release it.  That's what we demand of our tools.  Right?  Is the website any different?  I don't get this approach to releasing an incomplete website when there was a great, user-friendly, well-organized site beforehand. 

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 355
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2017, 09:20 PM »
I'm not fuming, but the lack of redirects was a first world burden the last few nights.
I tried to navigate the website but gave up and googled "Festool Supplemental Manuals" instead of "(insert tool) supplemental manual" and got what I needed straight from Rick Christopherson.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3908
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2017, 09:28 PM »
Hi
 Like anything it takes time to settle and the UK version of the website is gradually becoming quicker to load - I guess some 'gremlins' lurk in the system but I am sure all will be good soon.
rg
Phil

I know absolutely nothing on how websites work or the complexity of launching  a new website and unfortunately the above is all I can offer on this.....

Generally software developers develope in private and roll it out when it is ready... Not develop in public.

Offline mrFinpgh

  • Posts: 227
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2017, 10:02 PM »
Generally software developers develope in private and roll it out when it is ready... Not develop in public.

In an ideal world, though, they are iterating throughout this process and getting feedback.

For example, a project I am working on right now is essentially a big new website for a specific set of customers to interact with.  NDAs and discretion keep me from saying too much about it, but the customer base is very specific.   We have been developing in private, but demoing to a group of stakeholders on a weekly basis.   

We have a user experience expert who is meeting with actual people in the field to discuss what they want and what is important to them in using this new site.   She also provides insight into how to best structure the data on the page for the users to understand and navigate with the least amount of friction.

Now, at the end of this first phase, we have a period of user testing where numerous individuals from across the customer's organization will go in and pretend to be customers and interact with the site.  This helps to validate that the design 'works' and obviously that the functionality is operating correctly (for the most part..  [unsure])

After that, there are pilot group users who will be specifically engaged to use the site and provide feedback on what they like/dislike and how it is working for them.   

After which, we will probably prioritize and then move to a phase 2, adding some new functionality and integrating feedback from the customer into the process.

It's pretty likely the whole site was built to be mobile-first, but I think it could have been implemented better.   There is a heavy emphasis on images and whitespace, and it makes the site feel large and more complicated than it actually is.  That should have been caught in user testing.   There is a marketing-driven aspect to it that might excite prospective customers, but as a service-portal, it is  bit less effective. 

Aesthetically, I actually like it.  But from a UX perspective, I find it a little hard to use.   I wondered for a while where my 'account' went, as I didn't want to go find my Pro5 sander and get the tool number off of it (bad change management..).   

-Adam

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 355
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2017, 10:20 PM »
Guess what they got in Germany that's NAINA?  [big grin]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3475
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2017, 10:47 PM »
...what tool in that section does brushing? In that section, there are sanders and sand paper type items, but no brushes, or brushing.

I don't see the product section "Workplace organization" to have any relevance to those tools. Systainers, sortainers and sys-ports are workplace organization, not an MFT table or a radio or suction device.

Ya I noticed that "Brush" thing myself today. Having seen the Brush category, I immediately thought maybe one of those neat NAINA tools from Europe was now available. However, the Brush category turned out to be just an empty placeholder.  [crying]

And while you're railing on the lack of Systainer and MFT equipment, I also noted a total lack of any drill or domino information, or Vac SYS or ................

I just chalk this up to a premature website roll-out. It would have been nice if Festool had taken a more holistic approach to this roll-out and done due diligence on this. Right now, it's really just a half baked exercise at this point.

I really hate to be so negative, but in the last 6-9 months I've seen many items/circumstances that makes me question the clairvoyance of thought of the Festool USA marketing group. And this would certainly start with the gelded metric/imperial products that are now being offered as the new mantra for effective USA marketing penetration.



 


Offline promark747

  • Posts: 413
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2017, 12:28 AM »
Shouldn't it be Domino "Joining" instead of "Jointing"?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3475
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2017, 02:32 AM »
Shouldn't it be Domino "Joining" instead of "Jointing"?

It's a German thing... [big grin]

Offline charley1968

  • Posts: 488
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2017, 03:26 AM »
German or germane?
Just for today..

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2017, 04:27 AM »
Hi
 Like anything it takes time to settle and the UK version of the website is gradually becoming quicker to load - I guess some 'gremlins' lurk in the system but I am sure all will be good soon.
rg
Phil

I know absolutely nothing on how websites work or the complexity of launching  a new website and unfortunately the above is all I can offer on this.....

Hi Phil

I agree with you about knowing nothing about web design - I write programs for home consumption but have never been able to get my head around web site design.

I am doing some research for the CTM 26 video that I am making and the main filter unit is not shown amongst the accessories. However, amongst the brochures and operating instructions it does have something about copying polygons with the circular saw !

I suspect that the Festool web team are trying to create a single web application for all platforms. That would certainly explain the ridiculously low information density for PC users and those with iPads rather than iPhones. It is taking me 3 or 4 times as long to find what I need. I do not accept that some omissions should be acceptable at this stage as it is perfectly possible to set things up on a non live system and switch over when the testing is complete. The poor level of service, certainly for UK users, has been going on for nearly a month now.

Peter

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1619
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2017, 05:23 AM »
From what I understand, the changes "under the covers" are to allow a much more streamlined global delivery of web content to Festool users. The platform chosen allows Festool to decouple the content from how it is presented to the user, so you don't have to keep changing things to support new or different form factors or devices. It supports multiple sites and manages multilingual content, and integrates with all sorts of other environments with the ability to provide future additional benefits to us.

But it has been a huge change to put that global solution in place, and there were bound to be teething problems in different countries as they attempt to consolidate all of that information and make it available via the new platform.

Some of us will find it easier (seems just to be me at the moment!) because of the user experience and interfaces we are used to dealing with. Others may find the change more of a negative experience for them. It's clear that not all of the country versions are operating in the same way; I don't see all of the same issues with the UK content for the TS 75 for example, but I do see some of them. I can login without problems.

So it may just be that a little time is needed to work through a list of feedback and issues and make the changes and improvements necessary.

Let's keep it positive in the feedback; there's a lot of assumptions above about how Festool have gone about this without any detail about what they have actually done, who they've engaged, or how they've approached the project and the challenges they were presented with; indeed whether they actually engaged end users etc.

I'm sure @TylerC and the US marketing team are working with the Festool Germany team responsible for the project, as I'm equally sure that @Phil Beckley and UK marketing team have been in my neck of the woods.

Let's continue to provide good, solid, friendly feedback because that's how we can help to improve things.

It's not going back to how it used to be, so let's help make the new platform better than what it was.

Offline Poindexter

  • Posts: 143
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2017, 06:21 AM »
Guess they need to spend some more time running this new website in the sandbox and work out some bugs. Give some trusted, knowledgeable FOG members access and let them play and try to break things and find out what works and what doesn't.

Someone who worked on the design is not likely to catch these types of errors or shortcomings as their brain is already wired to know what to expect and how it should behave because they built it. They will jump right past what will be a problem for the average user and never see the problem. Likewise when you get a couple hundred people running different hardware and many variations of an OS and a half dozen versions if each popular browser you'll turn up a whole batch of problems you never thought could occur.

And then you'll get to fix all that BEFORE you go live.

Get a sandbox server set up and play in it.

This is good advice for next time.  Too late now as they've already launched and probably can't roll it back.

I work for the largest software company in the automotive business.  We own things like Autotrader and KBB as a few of our better known consumer-facing entities.  But we also build and host over 13,000 other websites that manufacturers and retailer/service centers (dealers) rely on to make their money every day.  Not to mention the operational softwares... but my point...

We have absolutely messed up site launches.  We have totally made usability left turns when we should have gone right.  And the only thing I can say is that if you aren't iterating you're not moving forward.  Mistakes happen, but mistakes usually get fixed.  They just take a little time to work though.  A website is like a woodworking project:  no two are the same and every mistake takes some TLC to fix.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 484
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2017, 06:52 AM »
The poor level of service, certainly for UK users, has been going on for nearly a month now.
Fear not, you're not alone.

Tried to order some replacements for my surfix (the green pads), started at the homepage and searched for 'surfix' - no sys but they interestingly seem to have (when skimming the pictures) 4 kinds of oils now... wait, the first is the set.

Then looking at accessories: I presume it is on another screen page where Oil sponges are... no, there is no way to scroll like on Items included... looking there aaah: green non-woven sanding pad and it even has a link. YES!

Yes? no...
For redundant see redundant.

I think the people here are disappointed as they actually use the tools and want to quickly find what is needed - be it general information, manuals, product numbers for spare parts (especially of consumeables). And with 'quickly' I don't mean to:
  • click 'more' repeatedly on longer lists on a desktop just to show what's not loaded yet to eventually find that it dosn't contain what is seeked at all
  • having to click through side scrollers 4 items a time when there is plenty of screen estate available to display all at once
  • swipe their fingers to the bone on a mobile as it'll only display one item and you have to go through the list one by one

While the idea of one site rules them all sounds great on paper, where is the version the cleanly lists needed information, densely (without much clicking/swiping/scrolling) and accessible?

A version that isn't aimed at the visually impaired?

A version where activating 'read view' in the browser condenses it down to actual information, instead of 17 pages (like for the TSC55, on a QHD display with >1300 pixels vertical being available) with all links (but homepage, online-shop, find dealer, service all included) and package contents, downloads and accesories removed but the marketing bling surviving, including pictures?

A version where I can actually print the page (current firefox is unable to, aborts with an error) and on browsers where I can have the result not looking like *** and consume a whole tree (* print-iexplore.pdf (1584.4 kB - downloaded 14 times.), * print-chrome.pdf (2985.06 kB - downloaded 21 times.))?

IMHO this site should be taken out the back and put down for good, at least until it can be resurrected in a form that dosn't look like being exclusively marketing bling aimed at mobile phone users. It seems they forgot that they have an actually existing userbase that is not in the currently hyped marketing focus group (the ones with callused fingertip skin from stroking a wipe-o-phone 24/7).

Sorry, I'm out of polite words to describe this clusterfuck of failed usability - this should not have never been released in the current state.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 06:55 AM by Gregor »

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3908
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2017, 06:59 AM »
...

In an ideal world, though, they are iterating throughout this process and getting feedback.
...
-Adam

I understand spiral development and agile development.
However There was a working web site, and now it sounds like it is a non working one.

Theoretically it may be better, and theoretically it could have been tested on multiple devices before rolling it out.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 484
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2017, 07:11 AM »
Theoretically they could have put up the new site under a subdomain first and crowdsource the testing/debugging from their userbase (like the forum members here, or all their registered customers via a mailing like the marketing ones I get on a regular basis), with some tools to be raffled out over participants (or something) as carrots to get feedback.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3908
Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2017, 07:42 AM »
Theoretically they could have put up the new site under a subdomain first and crowdsource the testing/debugging from their userbase (like the forum members here, or all their registered customers via a mailing like the marketing ones I get on a regular basis), with some tools to be raffled out over participants (or something) as carrots to get feedback.

That sounds practical too.

Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
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Re: USA WEBSITE
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2017, 08:21 AM »
I'm not fuming, but the lack of redirects was a first world burden the last few nights.
I tried to navigate the website but gave up and googled "Festool Supplemental Manuals" instead of "(insert tool) supplemental manual" and got what I needed straight from Rick Christopherson.

There are a lot of redirects already set up. If you have specific examples, we'll get them added.