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Author Topic: Vac sys  (Read 3812 times)

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Offline Twoodman66

  • Posts: 95
Vac sys
« on: May 12, 2018, 07:19 PM »
Is it possible to add more than one( a 3rd) vac head to the pump?

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5067
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2018, 10:01 PM »
Absolutely, it just may take more time to draw down the vacuum to an acceptable level. The bonus round however is that the more vacuum heads you use, the larger your vacuum reserve will be, which will give you more time to react to a catastrophic failure...if that were to occur.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 10:04 AM by Cheese »

Offline Twoodman66

  • Posts: 95
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2018, 05:04 AM »
Great thanks

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5067
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2018, 10:11 AM »
Great thanks

One more note, I utilize the vacuum chamber under the base every time. Maybe it's just habit, dunno, I do know that the decay time increases greatly. I can shut the vacuum pump down, come back 20 minutes later and the board is still stuck to the head.



Offline Festool USA

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
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  • Posts: 8399
    • Festool USA
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2018, 08:32 AM »
Officially, we don't recommend it, as it wasn't designed to be used that way.

Offline Twoodman66

  • Posts: 95
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2018, 06:49 AM »
What’s the risk? Motor overload. Doesn’t the pump
Essentially drop down in load once the vacuum pressure is reached?

Online Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3574
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 09:44 AM »
Isn’t the Festool pump the continuous run type? What difference would it make how many clamp heads there are?

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2005
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 11:47 AM »
Vacuum is vacuum, other than the increase in initial draw-down, it doesn't matter if you have one head or 15 attached to the pump.  As with any increase in complexity there is an increased risk of leakage but that can also happen with one bad head connection.  I did not buy the Festool pump, I've used a surplus HVAC pump for 25+ years and had two Festool heads and two Virutex heads attached with no noticeable difference in draw-down.

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 142
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 12:15 PM »
Hey RST - Or Anybody Else:
Didn’t want to “hi jack” this thread... But you guys sound like you know what you’re talking about when it comes to vacuum systems.

SO HERE’S THE SITUATION:
I’d love to have a Festool Vac Sys System.
All the reviews say it would be great for sanding, using the Domino, etc.
But...
Festool’s SPECS say it only works BELOW 6,500’ of altitude.
My shop is at 7,500’ of altitude. Ergo... NO GO.
I’ve confirmed the situation with the Woodcraft store guys -
In Colorado Springs (6,035’) - And Denver (5,280’).
Buy one - Take it home - Try it - Keep or Return it - Wasn’t the answer.
“Been there - Done that” - “No joy”.

SO... HERE’S MY QUESTIONS:
Would a different brand of VACUUM - Hooked up to Festool Vac Sys heads - Work?
And, if so... Any SUGGESTIONS?
Thanks ahead.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 12:22 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2005
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 12:33 PM »
30 years ago, I was using my Sears vacuum cleaner to suck down parts to jigs.  After that I was using the intake on my air compressor.  At least 25 years ago I bought a surplus HVAC pump for $15.00 (probably because it is 220V)...still using it.  Runs continuous but it's made for that.  I used air fittings and hose for most of that time.  I now use a combination of Festool and plastic push/pull fittings that I buy from automationdirect.com.  I modified my Festool heads with 8mm metric line and push/pulls so that I can disconnect the Festool hoses from my heads, It makes it much easier to store them.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5271
  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 12:34 PM »
Joe heres one

http://www.talkfestool.com/vb/hand-tools/4829-vacuum-clamp.html

If you do a search Peter (I think) posted a one made vac system he made it was quite a while ago. Im looking for it.

Here I found it

http://festoolownersgroup.com/home-improvement-other-projects/working-alone-tips-to-maybe-make-your-things-easier/msg172682/#msg172682
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 12:38 PM by jobsworth »

Online Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3574
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 05:06 PM »
@Joe Felchlin   It’s not that it won’t work at altitude it just won’t work as well, directly proportional to the lower atmospheric pressure.

At sea level a clamp head with 10 square inches of sealed area will provide the equivalent of 147 pounds sitting on your board. At 7500 feet the “weight” sitting on your board will only be 110 pounds. Significantly less but still useful.


Where there may be failure is if the board is rough enough that the gasket material isn’t pressed into the texture and you don’t get a seal.

Another potential problem is if the air is so “thin” (this is beyound my schooling) tha the pump gaskets don’t seal well enough to evacuate but it seems like if air conditioning and refrigeration is available in your location then a vacuum pump should still work.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 05:11 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5067
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2018, 06:43 PM »
Michael's exactly correct. It'll work, it just works better at lower elevations. The rule of thumb is that for every 1000 feet of elevation you lose approx. 1/2 PSI. So at 7500 feet you've got 3.75 less PSI.

There are probably some CNC routers in your area and they would use vacuum tables to hold down sheet goods.

There may be an issue with the Festool vacuum pump not being able to supply enough volume because of the thin air, however there are other vacuum pumps made that will work at that altitude.

Maybe a venturi style setup that works off of a compressor would work better?  They're noisy, however maybe the volume of air they produce isn't as affected by altitude?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 08:22 AM by Cheese »

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 142
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2018, 07:54 PM »
Michael - Cheese:
Thx for the info.
FYI...
Bought one - Took it home. NO JOY. Back it went.
Tried it using sanded S4S Cherry and Pine.
Then tried a sheet of 3/8” plastic.
So... Sealing wasn’t the problem.

Also FYI...
My home/shop is in the Colorado Springs’ zip code -
But away from the city of COS - Where Woodcraft and the CNC shops are located.
Ergo... 7,500’ versus COS “proper’s” 6,035’.

Refrigerators, freezers, and the AC work fine at my place -
Although, we only turn the AC on one day a year (4 JULY) -
Just to make sure it works if we ever need it. ;)

So... Still looking for a vacuum “alternative”.

FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Online Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3574
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2018, 11:19 AM »
@Joe Felchlin  so Festool was right, but NO JOY is a little vague.

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 142
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2018, 01:57 PM »
Sorry about that Michael.
My “bad”.  That means “my mistake”.  [wink]
Being a retired Army Sergeant Major -
I sometimes forget and use a Military phrase/jargon.
“NO JOY” = Failure
As in:
Didn’t hit the target/accomplish the mission/get the job done.
I won’t even try to explain “FUBAR”.  [wink]
As Festool’s Sedge Sedgeley says: “Hope that helps.”  :)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 02:10 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2005
Re: Vac sys
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2018, 05:44 PM »
Let's not forget SNAFU