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Author Topic: What's the deal with non brushless new tools ?  (Read 10738 times)

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Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 448
Re: What's the deal with non brushless new tools ?
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2018, 10:02 PM »
Everything will be brushless in time.  It's just the manufacturing reality that the mass scale of cordless with brushless will make it more economical to use the brushless setup in everything.

More than anything expect hybrid tools to become the norm, where they are battery tools, but you can pop the battery off and plug on the adapter to take power from the wall.  1 tools, both options.  Better for end user, cheaper for manufacture.

Brushes work, though they do wear/spark.  The biggest downside of brushless is now you have to have a micro controller in there PWMing it.  Most tools, this is a potted brick of mystery. If it fries, the tool is dead and you are replacing the whole thing since the modules aren't standardized in any way.

Some tools it dying and being replaced is just annoying and not too bad on cost. But on bigger more expensive stuff, folks want to be able to re-pair/re-build them.

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Offline James Biddle

  • Posts: 156
Re: What's the deal with non brushless new tools ?
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2018, 09:52 AM »
If economics are the reason that Festool chooses not to use brushless motors in their cordless tools, how do you explain other companies like Makita and Milwaukee using brushless in a much wider variety of tools and selling them for less than Festool? 

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 448
Re: What's the deal with non brushless new tools ?
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2018, 12:49 PM »
If economics are the reason that Festool chooses not to use brushless motors in their cordless tools, how do you explain other companies like Makita and Milwaukee using brushless in a much wider variety of tools and selling them for less than Festool?

Give them time.  I don't know the numbers but it's safe to assume Festool is a vastly smaller company than the others.  I would guess everyone in the festool engineering/design department knows everyone in it.  Resources to do these changes aren't tiny. Especially if you tend to be a company plagued with Not Invented Here syndrome.  The parts inside most brands of tools are standard.  Items like motors are the same and or interchangeable between different brands because they get them from the same places.  Once they get set up for the new stuff, and get some unique to their tool designs worked out or a flexible architecture you can run with it and start cranking stuff out.  Add to that the mass market brands refresh the tools constantly.  I have a ton of Milwaukee tools, every time I go past them in the store tools I have look to be yet another new model, and then that changes again.  Large companies with massive sales volume makes a huge difference.   Best I know, festool doesn't change stuff much. Basic designs can be around for decades (that's not a bad thing).  So if it's not broke, you probably won't change it anytime soon. And when you do make changes, they are probably limited in how much NRE they can put towards the changes.

It would be interesting to see how much tools Festool moves in a year.  That's why there being a full US operation is a bit surprising. While in certain circles they are well know, to the general public, even people who build stuff they are a completely unknown thing.  How they stay a float based on general guesses of how many tools they probably sell a year is a mystery to me. A couple lowes and HDs in a large metro area probably sells far more saws than all of Festool USA every year.

I will say I'm surprised they don't have more brushless stuff. I had actually assumed they had far more of them when I first learned about Festool.  But still I expect it will happen over time.  It's not like I think we will see a full redesign of the TS saws and such anytime soon.  I think people are more focused on things like not having to adjust brand new tools to get things square, or improved guide rails, or making all rails "holey" is a bigger priority for folks thank the motor.