dinkjs
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Location: Grapevine, Texas Member Since: Oct 2009
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« on: April 26, 2012, 09:38 PM » |
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Curious Shane, why doesn't Festool put H.E.P.A on there dust extractors instead of HEPA. When we bought our Sebo vacuum for our house (also made in Germany) the sales consultant stated it must be H.E.P.A in order to be truely certified H.E.P.A. filter or product. What is Festool's opinion on this?.
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Scott B.
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Location: Vermont, USA Member Since: Nov 2011
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Paint contractor and freelance writer.
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 09:44 PM » |
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Shane, please provide an answer to this. I would like to sleep tonight.  |
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Shane Holland
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 09:47 PM » |
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Well, I think it's semantics. I don't type A.B.C. or N.B.C. when I'm talking about the TV stations. HEPA is an acronym which stands for High Efficiency Particulate Arresting. I've never seen it used in the context of having periods between the letters, ever. If we use the internet as a source, Wikipedia doesn't use the periods. They just use "HEPA". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPAMy opinion is that it doesn't matter how you write it, it's that the filter meets the specified level of filtration, which is what HEPA is all about. Edit: I guess someone needs to tell Sebo US that their filters aren't legit...  http://www.sebo.us/three-step-filtration.aspxFrom their website: HEPA Pre-motor Microfilters (Optional) – HEPA Pre-motor Microfilters
("High Efficiency Particulate Air") remove a minimum of 99.97% of all airborne particulate matter down to 0.3 microns in diameter. Because these filters use small grid-like structures to capture dust particles, dirt build-up clogs the airflow pathway sooner than what is expected from S-class microfilters. However, SEBO’s HEPA microfilters are sold along with four-layer "Ultra-bags," which provide highly effective filtration before the airflow goes through the HEPA microfilter, greatly increasing life expectancy and reducing the potential of diminished air flow. Good question. Maybe the requirements are different in Germany. I'm not sure. |
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« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 09:59 PM by Shane Holland »
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Ken Nagrod
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Location: New Jersey Member Since: Jul 2010
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2012, 12:35 AM » |
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Eliminating periods saves ink. You can figure out the rest from there.  |
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Steve R
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Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA Member Since: Oct 2010
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2012, 12:49 AM » |
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Curious Shane, why doesn't Festool put H.E.P.A on there dust extractors instead of HEPA. When we bought our Sebo vacuum for our house (also made in Germany) the sales consultant stated it must be H.E.P.A in order to be truely certified H.E.P.A. filter or product. What is Festool's opinion on this?.
WOW dinkjs, You need to be aware of marketing hype. The advertising mantra goes, it you can't make it good, make it big....if you can't make it big, make it red... if you can't make it Red... then you're left with having to make it right. So when someone is splitting hairs about " . . . . " they are wanting to deflect you off the topic that the product is not working... Cheers, Steve |
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"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)
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Peter Parfitt
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Location: England Member Since: Apr 2011
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2012, 02:31 AM » |
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It must be a slow day in Texas if we are bothered by full stops!
P.P. PP
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Kapex 120, OF 2200, OF1400, TS55, TS55R, CMS-TS55R, PSC420, Domino 500, MFT3, Rotex 90, Rotex 150, CTL26, 1400 & 2700 Guide Rails and a lovely watch
Wish List: C15, HL850, BS75, DF700, Second Extractor, new secretary
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Corwin
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Location: Washington State, USA Member Since: Jan 2007
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2012, 02:40 AM » |
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It must be a slow day in Texas if we are bothered by full stops!
P.P. PP
Nah, PP, it's the heat.  |
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Peter Parfitt
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Location: England Member Since: Apr 2011
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2012, 03:19 AM » |
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It must be a slow day in Texas if we are bothered by full stops!
P.P. PP
Nah, PP, it's the heat. I have not been to Texas but have been to Arizona and loved the climate there. At the moment in the UK we are experiencing some cold and wet weather which I hope is N.A.I.N.A. Peter |
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Kapex 120, OF 2200, OF1400, TS55, TS55R, CMS-TS55R, PSC420, Domino 500, MFT3, Rotex 90, Rotex 150, CTL26, 1400 & 2700 Guide Rails and a lovely watch
Wish List: C15, HL850, BS75, DF700, Second Extractor, new secretary
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Kev
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Location: Australia Member Since: Nov 2011
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2012, 05:06 AM » |
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It must be a slow day in Texas if we are bothered by full stops!
P.P. PP
Nah, PP, it's the heat. I have not been to Texas but have been to Arizona and loved the climate there. At the moment in the UK we are experiencing some cold and wet weather which I hope is N.A.I.N.A. Peter Weather? Hmmm. No sure if I should cycle or surf in the morning - or maybe chase some fish with a spear gun. Late autumn in Sydney is magic. Even if it's raining, it's really cool to take the ocean ski out for a paddle on the lakes. There's something really nice about paddling in the rain. BTW - I vote for no periods ... think of all of the online storage we'll save. |
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Peter Parfitt
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2012, 05:23 AM » |
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Hi Kev
I am jealous about the lifestyle...
...and I agree with you about the full stops...
Peter
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Kapex 120, OF 2200, OF1400, TS55, TS55R, CMS-TS55R, PSC420, Domino 500, MFT3, Rotex 90, Rotex 150, CTL26, 1400 & 2700 Guide Rails and a lovely watch
Wish List: C15, HL850, BS75, DF700, Second Extractor, new secretary
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Kev
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Location: Australia Member Since: Nov 2011
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2012, 05:37 AM » |
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Hi Kev
I am jealous about the lifestyle...
...and I agree with you about the full stops...
Peter
Spain, France, etc at your doorstep?? You haven't got it too tough |
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Rick Christopherson
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Location: Central U.S. Member Since: Jan 2007
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2012, 11:53 AM » |
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I used to be in the Industrial Hygiene business about 20 years ago, and what I find interesting is that no one can seem to decide on what the "A" stands for. Every time I see someone explain the acronym, it is different. Even the Certified Industrial Hygienists at my company (the people that are supposed to be the experts) couldn't seem to keep it straight. I always found it odd that they said it was "Absolute". That didn't seem right. "Air" would seem to make sense, except HEPA filtration is also applied to water too. Shane's "Arresting" isn't bad, but that's the first time I've noticed that variant.
After a Google search for "High Efficiency Particulate", it doesn't help much. Air was the most common, with Arresting coming in close, but I even found "Absorbing". What's a little more telling, though, is that quite a few references don't use anything for the "A" at all, and it is just High Efficiency Particulate filter.
ACGIH (American Conference of Industrial Hygienists, but formerly American Conference of Government Industrial Hygienists) --see, they can't even keep the acronym for their own name consistent--use "Air", but I suspect this has changed over the recent years. All of our CIH's were members of ACGIH, so if there was agreement on it back then, it would have been used. Maybe back then the agreement was "Absolute" but has been changed. It would be interesting to find out what the original usage of the acronym was.
Edit: After a little more digging, I am starting to think that the original word was in fact the "Absolute" that our CIH's were using 20 years ago. That makes sense because the "C" in CIH is the equivalent of being a PE in engineering, and they were very careful with how a report was written. It also makes sense, considering the acronym was originally developed by the DOD during the Manhattan Project, where the intent was to remove radioactive particles at the "absolute" level.
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« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 12:08 PM by Rick Christopherson »
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ccarrolladams
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Location: Hollywood, California USA Member Since: Apr 2010
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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2012, 02:02 AM » |
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Rick,
As much as I hate to be pedantic, the USA DOD was not created until the National Security Act of 1947. In December 1945 President Truman proposed uniting all branches of the USA armed forces under one "Department of State Defense" to avoid waste! Well, that sure worked out so well, that after a whole lot of debate, when passed in 1947, the agency name became Department of Defense.
Okay, so to be technical, the Manhattan Project was not a function of the DOD, because it did not exist while the Manhattan Project was active. Still, it is highly probable the the term "HEPA" goes back to pre-1945 Manhattan Project records.
What I believe is vital to remember is that the basic goal of HEPA filtration pre-dated modern dust extractors such as the Festool CT products. Possibly the general public was not familiar with the term HEPA, which hardly proves the standard is very new.
Also, how many USA Standards use "periods" separating the cap letters of an an acronym? I put "period" in quotes because HEPA is a USA, not an International, standard. In USA English usage the term "full stop" is not commonly used.
"England and America are two people divided by a common language" is a quote worded many ways and attributed to any number of people.
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PaulMarcel
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Location: Chandler AZ USA Member Since: Mar 2008
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« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2012, 02:08 AM » |
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I think it stands for "High Efficiency Particulate Floyd"
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Visit my blog for Festool adventures Shirt size: L  Twitter: @HalfInchShy |
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