Author Topic: blue 2x4  (Read 28266 times)

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Offline ShawnRussell

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blue 2x4
« on: December 21, 2011, 03:29 AM »
I am watching a show called Holmes on Homes. When they reframe they use a blue colored 2x4. Does anyone have any information on what the material is that is impregnated into the wood? I am assuming it is a termite and rot treatment similar to pressure treated lumber down here. Is this a Canadian only product?

btw, is the advice on the show pretty spot on or is there a lot of tv wizardry?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 03:30 AM by ShawnRussell »
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Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2011, 03:57 AM »
Shawn,

It's called BluWood and no there isn't tv wizardry.

BluWood

Offline BobKovacs

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2011, 06:25 AM »

btw, is the advice on the show pretty spot on or is there a lot of tv wizardry?

My biggest issue with the show is that none of their carpenters seem to own a hammer or a nail gun- they screw everything together.  I've seen them screw deck framing together (even with hangers), screw studs to plates, etc.  I don't know about the codes up there in Canada, but here in the US, the IRC doesn't allow screws for those applications.

Offline Alex

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2011, 07:21 AM »
Here in Europe most things are done with screws too. Nails hardly have any use anymore. What's the reason the IRC would forbid screws?

Offline Erik63

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2011, 07:46 AM »
Screws have less strength than nails when in a shear loading situation. So where a nail will bend. A screw will break.

Him and screws are my biggest thing with him. He acts like if your using nails. Your not doing a good job. Screws are better in some situations. Decking, subfloors etc. But not all situations.
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Offline fdengel

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2011, 09:11 AM »
Yes, depends on where they are being used.  Nails are simply superior for some use cases.

As to whether screws are allowed for some of those things, I think a lot of it depends on your actual location.  Walls that are not load-bearing can usually be done with screws instead of nails, though -- load-bearing ones usually need to be nails.

Online Dane

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2011, 09:30 AM »
I think Holmes is a decent carpenter, but in terms of taking his advise and techniques as gospel- be cautious.  I work in a building science based profession and his grasp of the realities of heat and moisture transfer is questionable.  I have seen him recommend some things that are quite likely to result in major structural damage due to moisture transfer.  Vapor barriers in the wrong place etc...He has a particular love of slapping closed cell foam wherever he feels like it.

Also, nails are vastly superior in so many places where he uses screws- I notice that in almost every show.  It may well come from his Canadian background, maybe they have stronger screws or no shear forces up there.

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2011, 09:44 AM »
It may well come from his Canadian background, maybe they have stronger screws or no shear forces up there.

Yup definitely everything is better up here...that's why everything is at least 20% more expensive....just kidding.
Holmes's excessive whining drives me nuts, I don't watch much anymore, particularly the discovery intros sections.

I do like TOH approach a lot better. Just get on with it and if you don't know, get someone who does to advise you so we all learn something. Kevin is starting to get a little grating but it's easy to ignore him and focus on what Tommy is doing.
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Online mastercabman

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2011, 11:54 AM »

btw, is the advice on the show pretty spot on or is there a lot of tv wizardry?
I have watch the show,but he also has another show called Holmes inspection.
Basicly he inspects a house after the homeowner paid someone else to do the inspection and did not do a good job.
He founds problems that the inspector did not catch and make it sounds like it's the end of the world!
But i found the show a little funny as he just tears and remove walls to see what could be a problem.But i don't think "home inspectors" are allowed to do this kind of damage just to see what's inside a wall.
I think he is overkill with bringing the house "up to code"   Like replacing the whole electrical panel just because there is no more room in the existing panel to add a circuit or a wire is melted somewhere in the wall.
Anyone else seen this show and feel the same way?
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Online Tom Bellemare

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2011, 12:06 PM »
I have had this gnawing away at my brain all morning - to the point that I'm not able to think about anything else...

Can someone please tell me what sort of design depends on the shear strength of nails (or screws) to be a sound structure?


Thanks,

Tom
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Offline BobKovacs

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2011, 12:53 PM »
I have had this gnawing away at my brain all morning - to the point that I'm not able to think about anything else...

Can someone please tell me what sort of design depends on the shear strength of nails (or screws) to be a sound structure?


Thanks,

Tom

Ummm....holding sheathing to a wall (hence the term "shear panel"), developing diaphragm action in a floor or roof, holding a multi-ply girder together, holding a cleat or ledger to a wall- basically anything that relies on resisting sideways motion between two pieces of material.

Online Tom Bellemare

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2011, 12:58 PM »
Thanks, Bob...

My mind was stuck thinking about stick framing.


Tom
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2011, 02:20 PM »
Screws have less strength than nails when in a shear loading situation. So where a nail will bend. A screw will break.

Him and screws are my biggest thing with him. He acts like if your using nails. Your not doing a good job. Screws are better in some situations. Decking, subfloors etc. But not all situations.

Not true actually!  screws are actually stronger than nails now   also if its load bearing you use metal plates and/or bolts not just nails and screws or some sort of joinery joint.


Here in Europe most things are done with screws too. Nails hardly have any use anymore. What's the reason the IRC would forbid screws?
[/quote]

+1 in the UK   screws are more often used now



Here in the UK joiners using nails are considered actually rough joiners or just house bashers.

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Online neth27

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2011, 05:37 PM »
Screws have less strength than nails when in a shear loading situation. So where a nail will bend. A screw will break.

Him and screws are my biggest thing with him. He acts like if your using nails. Your not doing a good job. Screws are better in some situations. Decking, subfloors etc. But not all situations.

Not true actually!  screws are actually stronger than nails now   also if its load bearing you use metal plates and/or bolts not just nails and screws or some sort of joinery joint.


Who says they are
Here in Europe most things are done with screws too. Nails hardly have any use anymore. What's the reason the IRC would forbid screws?

+1 in the UK   screws are more often used now



Here in the UK joiners using nails are considered actually rough joiners or just house bashers.

Who says they are rough or are house bashers??? You..

I use 95% screws for the work i do, but i don't pay for them. If the price was was out of my own pocket i would use a lot more nails  [big grin]

John..

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Offline Deansocial

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2011, 05:56 PM »
ditto, i use nails where needed and screws where needed. I wouldnt batten a roof with screws would I. Or screw an architrave on,

Offline VSM_4

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2011, 09:57 PM »
I have used blue wood a couple of times; I did not like it at all. 

It makes your hands and arms tingle if you handle it with no gloves on.  I would imagine that this is the affect of the chemicals seeping into your skin.  After feeling that tingling I started to wonder what breathing in blue wood dust was doing...

I think it is overkill to build an entire house out of treated wood, and the treatment also weakens the wood.   
Vinny

Offline John Stevens

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2011, 10:47 PM »
I have had this gnawing away at my brain all morning - to the point that I'm not able to think about anything else...

Can someone please tell me what sort of design depends on the shear strength of nails (or screws) to be a sound structure?


Thanks,

Tom

Ummm....holding sheathing to a wall (hence the term "shear panel"), developing diaphragm action in a floor or roof, holding a multi-ply girder together, holding a cleat or ledger to a wall- basically anything that relies on resisting sideways motion between two pieces of material.

Sistering joists?
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2011, 02:55 AM »
Dean, Neth,   Especially you Dean!

You both knew what I meant.  

I'm on about places where screws and nails can be used and structural strength can be a factor.   Obviously you don't use screws for architraves and other things like that.  I should of made my self more clear and explained more...... I thought I didn't needed to I thought it would of been obvious I wasn't talking about finishing type of jobs or lathing a roof but i forget this is Fog ain't it.

Me and my mate say it!  Every joiner I come across using a paslode banging nails in seems rough and joiners I see who take the time to use screws instead are more likely to take the time to do it better.

Well I think screws are a far cleaner job looks clean and if you just want to move something over you simply unscrew it.  not go round banging your hammer about to get it where you want putting dents in your wood like when doing studding etc..  Not archtrive,lathing.... [tongue]


Jmb



« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 02:59 AM by jmbfestool »
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Offline ShawnRussell

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2011, 05:07 AM »
So much good information here. Thanks for all the replies.. I am starting to feel like a kid again. The more answers I receive the more questions I have.

I almost dread the fun that I have... I so look forward to the end of the day so I can come home and work with my hands. Anyone in the Atlanta area want a no cost intern on the weekends? :)

Will work for knowledge.
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Offline VSM_4

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2011, 09:49 PM »
Here in Europe most things are done with screws too. Nails hardly have any use anymore.


This has to be due to different construction methods.

Are you telling me that they would build a house like this (stick framing) with screws? 


It would literally take twice as long. 


Vinny

Offline Pete Pedisich

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2011, 10:38 PM »
I am no expert on fasteners, and this is not a statement but more of a question...
I understand a nail used in a high-shear application has to have the 'toughness' to bend a little rather than snap. And I'm guessing that screws made with a steel with the same toughness in a comparable shaft diameter would be preferable to a nail, maybe they are just not marketed here as much as Europe/UK due to the way our codes are written?

Online Tom Bellemare

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2011, 10:57 PM »
There are screws that are acceptable for use in shear walls here. They just aren't used much, from what I can tell.


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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2011, 02:38 AM »
Here in Europe most things are done with screws too. Nails hardly have any use anymore.


This has to be due to different construction methods.

Are you telling me that they would build a house like this (stick framing) with screws? 


It would literally take twice as long. 






I would screw it!  Especially the roof I only screw or bolt roofs now don't use nails any more.  The structural screws I use are stronger than nails. I read some where it said a structural screw is equal to a 10mm bolt..  You can get screws in longer lengths and unlike a nail the screws pull the joints up really tight and solid.

Thing is we don't Really do building that size completely out of wood.


Jmb 
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Offline Erik63

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2011, 08:13 AM »
I am no expert on fasteners, and this is not a statement but more of a question...
I understand a nail used in a high-shear application has to have the 'toughness' to bend a little rather than snap. And I'm guessing that screws made with a steel with the same toughness in a comparable shaft diameter would be preferable to a nail, maybe they are just not marketed here as much as Europe/UK due to the way our codes are written?

We do have structural screws here. The GRK RSS would be considered a structural screw. I know that Simpson makes structural screws as well. In some situations, Im sure the GRK R4 would be fine. It just would not make any sense to screw a 2x4/2x6 wall together with these. It would take well over 2x as long as shooting with a gun. Im pretty sure I could hand nail faster than someone could screw off while framing a wall.
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Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2011, 09:28 AM »
Wow did this topic go off the original post!  I'll just say that I cover all of my bases by hammering in Robertson headed screws into all of my framing and trim work.  I also make sure that I countersink the screws into all trim with extra hammer blows using my waffle faced hammer.

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2011, 09:35 AM »
Wow did this topic go off the original post!  I'll just say that I cover all of my bases by hammering in Robertson headed screws into all of my framing and trim work.  I also make sure that I countersink the screws into all trim with extra hammer blows using my waffle faced hammer.

Atta' boy good ole Yankee ingenuity! If you have a nice hammer you gotta use it.
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Offline Jon Hilgenberg

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2011, 10:02 AM »
Have seen more than  a few homes built down here with blue wood.  It's so humid most of the time it seems like a no brainer to use, but from what I understand the cost is about 20% more(?) than regular studs.

Also, down here instead of using blue wood, once the house is framed, a crew comes in and treats the bottom 1/3 of the walls on the first floor with looks to be a similar colored compound prior to sheetrock stage.  I'm not sure what it is since I'm rarely in houses that early on.

Jon
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Offline fritter63

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2011, 01:28 PM »
Shawn,

I used the blu lumber for building my barn, which is basically steel "miracle" trusses with horizontal 2x6 in between, mostly for providing a fastening point for the steel siding. If you look at some of the videos I've posted, you can see them in the background.

The blu lumber is treated with some kind of chemical that is supposed to make it termite and mold proof. It cost me about an extra $500 for the lumber to do it that way.

What I learned:

- If I understood them correctly, the chems were applied at the lumber yard. I know this because I complained about the fact that the blue kept rubbing off on EVERYTHING.
- It does not penetrate enough to make the entire piece blue throughout
- When I mentioned it to our building contractor consultant, he said there just wasn't enough of a moisture/mold problem here in California to warrant it.
- I think it's targeted at the south east US climate
- I asked if it could be used for sill plates instead of pressure treated, and they said no!

I have my concerns about just how good something can be that gets applied like that and doesn't penetrate all that deep. I just came away feeling like it was gimmick. YMMV. Basically, seems like every exposed end would still be an entry point for termites.

Just due to the mess (I had blue clothes!), I didn't use it on the house.

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2011, 02:24 PM »
Shawn,

I used the blu lumber for building my barn, which is basically steel "miracle" trusses with horizontal 2x6 in between, mostly for providing a fastening point for the steel siding. If you look at some of the videos I've posted, you can see them in the background.

The blu lumber is treated with some kind of chemical that is supposed to make it termite and mold proof. It cost me about an extra $500 for the lumber to do it that way.

What I learned:

- If I understood them correctly, the chems were applied at the lumber yard. I know this because I complained about the fact that the blue kept rubbing off on EVERYTHING.
- It does not penetrate enough to make the entire piece blue throughout
- When I mentioned it to our building contractor consultant, he said there just wasn't enough of a moisture/mold problem here in California to warrant it.
- I think it's targeted at the south east US climate
- I asked if it could be used for sill plates instead of pressure treated, and they said no!

I have my concerns about just how good something can be that gets applied like that and doesn't penetrate all that deep. I just came away feeling like it was gimmick. YMMV. Basically, seems like every exposed end would still be an entry point for termites.

Just due to the mess (I had blue clothes!), I didn't use it on the house.

This doesn't sound like it's "the real thing".  The actual chemical treatment is done by the manufacturer and penetrates through the wood.  There's no claim of it being "...proof", just resistant.

I still have gallons of Cuprinol that I use to treat non-pressure treated lumber and cut ends on pressure treated.  Like everything good, that stuff was banned from production.

Offline GPowers

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Re: blue 2x4
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2011, 02:33 PM »
I can not imagine re-coating every cut you make, with the blue coating. It would become very time consuming.
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