Author Topic: Hardie Board and Azek?  (Read 3484 times)

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Offline 3PedalMINI

  • Posts: 463
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Hardie Board and Azek?
« on: September 03, 2018, 10:31 PM »
Hi guys! I’m at the point of finally trimming and siding my shed. I want todo a water table and I think I’m going to go with azeks pre made system. What I can’t find is how thick to make the trim boards. James Hardie only sells 3/4” trim in fiber cement so I assume I’m ok with 3/4” for all the corners and trim?

Thanks!
The Bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten -Benjamin Franklin

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Online Mortiser

  • Posts: 27
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2018, 11:18 PM »
You're going to need 5/4 or a full 1" trim board (if you are doing corner boards) for your Hardie siding. I would recommend Miratec. You can cut it with your woodworking tools and it has a warranty like Hardie. I've used Miratec for all of my trim when using Hardie siding and been very pleased.
Rich

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 487
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2018, 05:22 AM »
I’m stumped...I wonder if Hardie phased out 5/4?  Could’ve sworn they offered it at one time.

I’ve used miratec and have had very good results. Mate the joints with Vulkem or Quad and on the exposed butt ends I would recommend buttering them with Vulkem or Quad. I don’t feel that paint is enough.

When fastening, if using a headed nail (I believe required) I would hand drive or underdrive with pneumatic and finish by hand. The fastener penetration can mushroom pretty easily.

The other enemy of miratec is repeated contact. I have miratec corners on my garage and although I am careful working around the corners (lawnmower/snowblower/etc) if they get damaged and the outer veneer is disrupted, they will swell up pretty quickly.  If (when) that happens, touch up with paint as quickly as possible.

I think you will be fine with it.  Make sure you wear a dust mask when milling.  It cuts like wood, but the dust is pretty fine and goes everywhere.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 745
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2018, 09:31 AM »
I believe Azek offers pre-made corners.
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5300
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2018, 11:20 AM »
Mate the joints with Vulkem or Quad and on the exposed butt ends I would recommend buttering them with Vulkem or Quad. I don’t feel that paint is enough.

Just curious how Quad measures up to Vulkem?  I've always used Vulkem and think its great but it sure is a mess to apply.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5797
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2018, 12:24 PM »
My go to caulk is SherMax.

Tom

Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 176
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2018, 02:23 PM »
One of the siding companies I work with stopped using Quad this summer because they were having issues with bubbles.

Tremco Dymonic FC, BASF NP150, SikaFlx and Vulkem are all good alternatives to Quad.

Shermax, Tower Tech2 and Big Stretch are all excellent products as well. In my experience these products tend to shrink quite a bit, especially if you’re filling larger (1/4”+) gaps.


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Offline 3PedalMINI

  • Posts: 463
    • Signature Sound & Video
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2018, 06:05 PM »
thanks guys! I went searching for miratec today and everyone told me they dont stock it due to the popularity of PVC and there were some issues related to miratec. I decided that im just going to go with Wolf as it is about half the cost of Azek and is stocked at my local supply house.

My next question is, what is the order of painting? my wife doesnt like any of the stock blue's james has to offer so it means I need to paint it. Do I spray all the trim first and then brush/cut-in the color? (I would prefer to spray) Or do I really hate my self and pre-paint all the boards? (but then how do I calk?)

this shed has become a serious poster child for scope creep!  [tongue]
The Bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten -Benjamin Franklin

Professional Custom Audio Video System Designer/Installer serving Southern - Middle NJ, Eastern PA & the Surrounding Shore Points.
www.sigsv.com

Kapex 120,TS55,RO150,ETS125,CT-26,CT-MIDI,Tradesmen Cleaning Kit, Festool Ratchet Kit, Sys-lite, Sys Roll Cart, T18 +3, 2013 Centrotec Kit, Carvex 420, Carvex Accessory Kit, CXS,RO90, TI15 and Various Festool Systainers

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2677
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2018, 07:14 PM »
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 07:21 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 487
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2018, 10:19 PM »
Mate the joints with Vulkem or Quad and on the exposed butt ends I would recommend buttering them with Vulkem or Quad. I don’t feel that paint is enough.

Just curious how Quad measures up to Vulkem?  I've always used Vulkem and think its great but it sure is a mess to apply.
@Cheese I actually prefer Vulkem for its “fibrous” body, but it can be harder to tool.  I will generally use Quad if I have a lot of mileage to cover, because I can generally run a fair amount of real estate and go back to tool as/if necessary. I’m unaware of any failures with Quad.  If I use Vulkem, I’ll have mineral spirits and Venom™ gloves handy. 
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 487
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2018, 10:23 PM »
thanks guys! I went searching for miratec today and everyone told me they dont stock it due to the popularity of PVC and there were some issues related to miratec. I decided that im just going to go with Wolf as it is about half the cost of Azek and is stocked at my local supply house.

My next question is, what is the order of painting? my wife doesnt like any of the stock blue's james has to offer so it means I need to paint it. Do I spray all the trim first and then brush/cut-in the color? (I would prefer to spray) Or do I really hate my self and pre-paint all the boards? (but then how do I calk?)

this shed has become a serious poster child for scope creep!  [tongue]
I don’t know of Wolf, but if it is PVC, it may radically expand and contract. AZEK certainly does. If you for sure are going to use a PVC product, read and follow the instructions exactly as written.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5300
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2018, 12:33 AM »
@Cheese I actually prefer Vulkem for its “fibrous” body, but it can be harder to tool.  I will generally use Quad if I have a lot of mileage to cover, because I can generally run a fair amount of real estate and go back to tool as/if necessary. I’m unaware of any failures with Quad.  If I use Vulkem, I’ll have mineral spirits and Venom™ gloves handy.

Ya, thanks 🙏 for that info. I’ll usually use Vulkem without gloves along with naphtha to cut through it. A great product but is there anything it won’t adhere itself to?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5300
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2018, 12:44 AM »
I don’t know of Wolf, but if it is PVC, it may radically expand and contract. AZEK certainly does. If you for sure are going to use a PVC product, read and follow the instructions exactly as written.

Ya, the major problem with plastic substrates is their coefficient of thermal expansion.  Cementious based products are a lot more stable. So while plastic based materials are a boon for use in high moisture areas, they are also a bane for thermal expansion. They are an order of 2x to 3x more susceptible to thermal expansion than wood products.

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 487
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2018, 06:25 AM »
@Cheese I actually prefer Vulkem for its “fibrous” body, but it can be harder to tool.  I will generally use Quad if I have a lot of mileage to cover, because I can generally run a fair amount of real estate and go back to tool as/if necessary. I’m unaware of any failures with Quad.  If I use Vulkem, I’ll have mineral spirits and Venom™ gloves handy.

Ya, thanks 🙏 for that info. I’ll usually use Vulkem without gloves along with naphtha to cut through it. A great product but is there anything it won’t adhere itself to?
In a pinch, I have used Vulkem as an adhesive. While the joint remains flexible (unlike wood glue) it is difficult to separate the mated surfaces. I have often thought of using it instead of typical subfloor adhesives.  I’m wondering now if that is a reason why some manufacturers have introduced poly-urethane subfloor adhesives.

But, I digress from the OP’s topic...sorry.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2677
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2018, 08:09 AM »
@Cheese ....



[/
 I’m wondering now if that is a reason why some manufacturers have introduced poly-urethane subfloor adhesives.
...........






Because construction glues of the type traditionally used with sheet based sub floors in the past are now/were hardening and cracking up with movement from foot traffic.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 08:14 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5300
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2018, 11:31 AM »
Just as a reference, I looked up the coefficient of thermal linear expansion numbers for wood, concrete & different plastics. I previously stated that plastic materials expanded 2-3 times more than wood.

Well I was wrong...plastic expands at the rate of 20 times more than wood.  [eek]

I ran the numbers for a 8' (96") piece of material over an 80º temperature range.
Wood = 96.033"
Concrete = 96.104"
PVC = 96.630"

So, if you're using wood, the caulk needs to move 1/32", for Hardie board the caulk moves 1/8", and for PVC the caulk needs to move 5/8".

If you want to run the numbers yourself, here's an easy method.

This page has the values:     https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/linear-expansion-coefficients-d_95.html
This page has the calculator:     https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/linear-thermal-expansion-d_1379.html

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3646
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2018, 01:19 PM »
Wood and plastics are pretty much the opposite in regard to temperature and humidity.

Wood responds to changes in humidity but not heat (short of burning heat).

Offline Brice Burrell

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  • Remodeling Contractor
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Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2018, 10:39 PM »
One more thing to add about Azek and other PVC trim boards, you have to be careful what color you paint them.  Dark colors are the issue due to the thermal expansion of PVC.  Generally speaking dark color are out.  Using certain paints allows the for some darker colors.  Be sure to read about what paint the manufacture recommends.   
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5300
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2018, 12:57 AM »
One more thing to add about Azek and other PVC trim boards, you have to be careful what color you paint them.  Dark colors are the issue due to the thermal expansion of PVC.  Generally speaking dark color are out.


Great point Brice...I forgot about that nuance. The 80 degree temperature differential I referred to earlier is just an ambient condition and does not reflect the true temperature of the substrate when sunlight is directed towards the item.

A few years ago I measured the surface temperature of a black vehicle on an 80 degree day. The surface temperature was over 150 degrees.

Offline glenn storey

  • Posts: 14
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2018, 07:36 PM »
try extira. it comes in many thicknesses, 11/4" is definitely available. it's great stuff. i use it all the time.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5300
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2018, 10:20 AM »
try extira. it comes in many thicknesses, 11/4" is definitely available. it's great stuff. i use it all the time.

Extira is a good product and is available at Menard's. Menard's only stocks 3/4" material while the 5/4" thickness is a special order.  The only downside is that it is sheet goods so you'll have to cut your own boards.

Offline glenn storey

  • Posts: 14
Re: Hardie Board and Azek?
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2018, 07:02 PM »
and that is why i love my track saw. my supplier, robert bury in brampton [outside of toronto] stocks all thicknesses. most are available in 4' x 8' or 2' x 16' sizes.