Author Topic: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...  (Read 7878 times)

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Offline JeremyH.

  • Posts: 154
Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« on: June 22, 2015, 09:13 PM »
Hi guys. I just did a bunch of shelves with a TS55. I used blue tape on both sides. The 48T Festool blade. First I did a cut at minimal depth for scoring, then I did a full cut one notch farther than just enough to clear. But the chip out is almost random and still happens, yet other times doesn't happen! It's really annoying. The melamine my boss says isn't nearly as good as the stuff he use to get. Oh and I use speed 3.5 or so. I'd love to not have chip out but a panel table saw with a scoring blade would be better.

When I tape the white stuff I have tons of black something residue that comes off onto the tape. It cleans off okish, but I hate it, and its never as nice as it should be. I've tried steel wool on the iron and eventually it becomes sticky where it looks like I rubbed some shine off. The amount of heat may play a role, not sure.

Well, thoughts?

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Offline Larso

  • Posts: 128
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2015, 09:26 PM »
You should be able to set your splinter guard and get a chip free cut on melamine without tape.
The 48 tooth saw blade should do it if its sharp.
Try setting the blade around 5mm deeper than the material,sometimes i have found that barely cutting through causes some chipping on some materials.
Do you have the old black splinter guard strip on your rail?
Check and see if going slower or faster with your cut helps and i use the fastest speed but i am aware of others who say this is too fast for melamine.

Offline JeremyH.

  • Posts: 154
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2015, 10:07 PM »
By chips I do mean anything but a straight edge, not just big ones.

I do use the splinter guard. It's necessary for not making a huge mess with sawdust if you're not using a vacuum (we don't have one that directly attaches how it should, I tape on the shopvac when no one's around)

I did find having the blade deep helped, but randomly some sheets are worse than others.

This is what I mostly get, and not a lot of it since I've been doing my best. Still, I feel like I shouldn't have any. But then again customers should want maple shelves painted.... if only.


Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2015, 10:35 PM »
The melamine looks thinner than a coat of paint from that picture! [blink]

Do you have issues cutting anything else? .. or just with the low quality melamine?


Offline Throwback7r

  • Posts: 291
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2015, 10:52 PM »
How sharp/ clean is the blade? Melamine eats blades, just how it goes.

Online donwon

  • Posts: 137
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2015, 12:45 AM »
What do you have the sheet goods laying on when cutting?  I found that if it is not laying on a solid surface all the way you can get chip out. Sometimes I put it on a sheet of insulation and it works well.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6568
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2015, 05:21 AM »
I hate the stuff I always struggled to get clean cut 100% of the time.

I found MDF melamine  so much easier to cut with no chips

Also better quality melamine is so important the cheap stuff is so hard to not get any chips.

The way I did it before I got a CNC was cut the panel 2-3mm bigger all round and then using hand held router or table router and planned the 2-3mm back.

This is time consuming but on the cheap stuff I think it's the only way unless you use a CNC.

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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5477
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2015, 06:55 AM »
For melamine I use a freshly sharpened blade and the cuts are perfect with the TS55 or CS70. Problem is the blade dulls very quickly with melamine and the blade is no good anymore after only 20 to 30 meters cut.

With the CS70 I use the special laminate blade and that blade just doesn't seem to dull, ever. Still get good cuts with it in melamine and laminate.     

Offline Deansocial

  • Posts: 2114
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2015, 07:38 AM »
That looks cheap n nasty mfc to me. Get better quality board and result will improve

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2015, 08:15 AM »
For melamine I use a freshly sharpened blade and the cuts are perfect with the TS55 or CS70. Problem is the blade dulls very quickly with melamine and the blade is no good anymore after only 20 to 30 meters cut.

With the CS70 I use the special laminate blade and that blade just doesn't seem to dull, ever. Still get good cuts with it in melamine and laminate.   

Special blade @Alex ??? You can't say it and not name it [huh]


Offline Throwback7r

  • Posts: 291

Offline JeremyH.

  • Posts: 154
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2015, 01:18 AM »
That is a picture from the net, not one of the stuff I used. The blade was 100% new.

https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tool-accessories/track-saws/blades/fine-48-tooth-saw-blade-495377

That one.

But you say the solid surface one is better?


Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5477
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2015, 02:06 AM »
Yes, the solid surface blade is a better for everything that has a bit of plastic on it like laminate or melamine.

Offline jackj

  • Posts: 8
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2015, 02:28 PM »
I use a Forrest Woodworker II blade in my tablesaw, cannot say enough good things about it and Forrest says it'll cut melamine to my satisfaction.  And it did.  Still didn't want to push the envelope and bought #496309 for my ts 55.  We re-styled the kitchen with Shaker style cabinets; the good wife said she lost cabinet space...so I ripped off the Shaker design and made a base cabinet carcase out of melamine using the #496309.  Good blade.  Two birch doors and granite to complete the job.

Always wanted to work with melamine. Sanded away the gloss with 220. With a small foam roller finished with acrylic satin paint in brown/black (a favorite finish at Ikea).

Cheers, Jack

 

Offline Brent Taylor

  • Posts: 471
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2015, 07:27 AM »
I have found that the stock blade that came with my saw works the best for me,  but it has to be clean or it will burn the surface.  Mine also has a scoring mode that I use some of the time,  it depends on the number of cuts and the materials that I am cutting through.  It's a feature that I wish Festool would have incorporated into there saw. I have used scoring saw through out my career and found that they yeald the best results, that was one of the reasons I went with the saw that I did.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6568
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2015, 06:58 AM »
I have found that the stock blade that came with my saw works the best for me,  but it has to be clean or it will burn the surface.  Mine also has a scoring mode that I use some of the time,  it depends on the number of cuts and the materials that I am cutting through.  It's a feature that I wish Festool would have incorporated into there saw. I have used scoring saw through out my career and found that they yeald the best results, that was one of the reasons I went with the saw that I did.

Mafell?
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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3980
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2015, 08:00 AM »
My saw also had a scoring function.  [wink]

Does it leave he residue without the blue tape?
Is it possible that the residue is from the blue tape?

Offline Brent Taylor

  • Posts: 471
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2015, 08:20 AM »
I have found that the stock blade that came with my saw works the best for me,  but it has to be clean or it will burn the surface.  Mine also has a scoring mode that I use some of the time,  it depends on the number of cuts and the materials that I am cutting through.  It's a feature that I wish Festool would have incorporated into there saw. I have used scoring saw through out my career and found that they yeald the best results, that was one of the reasons I went with the saw that I did.

Mafell?
Makita, I have had good luck with mine and it suits my needs, it has features I need that the others don't.  Only thing that I worry about is where they build them, the UK! ? [eek] [tongue] just kidding.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 09:09 AM by Brent Taylor »

Offline jjowen

  • Posts: 73
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2015, 10:58 PM »
I had to cut some expensive sheets of double-sided Laminex on 18mm birch ply. I got the laminate blade for the TS55, and after a bit of practice, got really really nice cuts. I think I did a little bit of Melamine too.

In Australia - HW 160X2.2X20 TF48 , Product Number 496308. Do we get a different part number because the blades spin the the opposite direction South of the equator?
Disclaimer: All posts after 12:00pm on Fridays (GMT+10) should be independently verified for relevance and veracity.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6568
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2015, 03:07 AM »
I have found that the stock blade that came with my saw works the best for me,  but it has to be clean or it will burn the surface.  Mine also has a scoring mode that I use some of the time,  it depends on the number of cuts and the materials that I am cutting through.  It's a feature that I wish Festool would have incorporated into there saw. I have used scoring saw through out my career and found that they yeald the best results, that was one of the reasons I went with the saw that I did.


Mafell?
Makita, I have had good luck with mine and it suits my needs, it has features I need that the others don't.  Only thing that I worry about is where they build them, the UK! ? [eek] [tongue] just kidding.

I was wondering why you weren't mentioning the brand name you just kept referring to it as mine and saw.

I first thought maybe you didn't want to mention Mafell on a festool site  but you didn't mention it because you were to ashamed to mention makita on a festool site   [poke] [poke]  [poke] [poke]
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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3980
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2015, 07:54 AM »
If it is working for him and he is not getting chips, then one could make a cogent arguement that he did not want embarrass anyone by pointing out that the Makita has no issues???

They say a good craftsman doesn't blame his tools, but sometimes one actually has to blame the tools.

Offline JeremyH.

  • Posts: 154
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2015, 10:47 PM »
Well, nothing in particular has changed. Taping, 3 spd, going not too fast, etc... Some melamine is just not that great even if you do a score line (min cut depth). I think a solid surface blade is the best option.

It seems going a little bit past the min cut depth is better, maybe plunging down most of the way. It makes the teeth up sweep, and not diagonal, so perhaps they're more likely to cut that chip. The min cut depth wasn't good.

A different iron produced less black what-ever-the- gets on tape. No idea why. I guess try irons till you get a keeper? 

Offline justinh

  • Posts: 164
    • Profiled Edge Woodworks
Re: Melamine... chip out and black stuff on tape...
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2015, 08:50 PM »
Well, nothing in particular has changed. Taping, 3 spd, going not too fast, etc... Some melamine is just not that great even if you do a score line (min cut depth). I think a solid surface blade is the best option.

It seems going a little bit past the min cut depth is better, maybe plunging down most of the way. It makes the teeth up sweep, and not diagonal, so perhaps they're more likely to cut that chip. The min cut depth wasn't good.

A different iron produced less black what-ever-the- gets on tape. No idea why. I guess try irons till you get a keeper?

If I'm cutting with a track saw my scoring cut is a climb cut.  I set the saw to take a shallow cut and pull it to score and then set the saw to full depth and complete the cut.  The concept is the same as a scoring saw on a table saw or a panel saw.   I use a TCG mel blade.

If I have to deal with any kind of volume I use a table saw with a fresh zero clearance insert and a H-ATB blade.  If I end up doing any more volume than I do I will add a scoring saw attachment to my saw.