Author Topic: Oak framed porch - Domino selection  (Read 6438 times)

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Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« on: May 25, 2015, 03:59 AM »
Another job to do now, off the back of the patio area. Ordering some new oak sleepers for the patio and it's turned into a, "hey, why not order the timber for the porch whilst you're at it" from the missus.

150mm square oak, nothing too fancy. Rail along the bottom, rail along the top and a few uprights.

I've got a Domino 500, is that going to cut the mustard? Do I need to borrow a 700 for this?

How many dominos per upright? Two in the end, or one larger one like a tenon would be if I hand cut it.

What type of domino?

Should I be gluing them in or leaving them floating?
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6627
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2015, 04:19 AM »
Ummmmmm.....

At worst you will have to use the larger domino the little one won't do.

Saying that don't think I like the idea using dominos for the porch.

150x150 isn't massive but still..... I think I would rather go the traditional route.

Not knowing the full size of your porch it's hard to say yes you will get away with using the larger domino.

If you were to use dominos stick some heco structural screws in where possible if it won't be seen.

Personally I wouldn't use dominos for the porch.
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Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2015, 04:41 AM »
Right on. So reading between the lines...

I'll get my square, auger bit and tenon saw at the ready.

Here's a "back of a fag packet" drawing - one side (other side is against a wall) is laid out on the left.

Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline Locks14

  • Posts: 291
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2015, 05:42 AM »
I love my XL 700 for doors, large garden benches, seating area, and lots more... BUT I'd never trust it in this application.

The weight of chunk of 6" square oak landing on a child's head, being held by dominos would literally keep my up at night.

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2015, 05:56 AM »
I love my XL 700 for doors, large garden benches, seating area, and lots more... BUT I'd never trust it in this application.

The weight of chunk of 6" square oak landing on a child's head, being held by dominos would literally keep my up at night.

Dowelled tenons?
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline Locks14

  • Posts: 291
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2015, 06:03 AM »
I think my preference would be drawbore tenon's.

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2015, 06:08 AM »
I think my preference would be drawbore tenon's.

I shall reach for my Google book from the reference shelf in the library room now.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2015, 06:10 AM »
After checking, that's what I meant, sorry, didn't know the terminology.

Yes, that's what I will aim to do.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline Locks14

  • Posts: 291
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2015, 06:40 AM »
After checking, that's what I meant, sorry, didn't know the terminology.

Yes, that's what I will aim to do.

There is a slight difference.

Dowelled mortice/tenons are where you assembled the joint, drill a hole through the mortice and tenon at the same time, and then drive a tight fitting dowel into the joint with glue.

With a drawbore joint the hole in the tenon and the one through the mortice are drilled separately and offset by a small amount, and one side of the dowel flattened off so when driven through it mechanically pulls the two joints together, no glue required.

Here's a video that will explain it more clearly:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/drawbored-mortise-and-tenon.aspx
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 06:42 AM by Locks14 »

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2015, 06:49 AM »
That's the video that came up. It's what I was intending to do as my Brother in Law just went through the same process and he'd explained it to me. Neither of us knew what it was called though.

I read a timber framing book last year, but it didn't seem to call them that either.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline Blackberry

  • Posts: 66
  • .
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2015, 08:33 AM »
I just finished a workbench for someone and connected the joints with drawbore tenons.  It was my first go at the method and I  should taken a video of the process.  The legs were made of ash and the peg was an oak dowel.  You have to sharpen/ease the end of the dowel and make the dowel longer than the joint.  Flush cut it after you've driven the dowel in.  If you offset the hole just right the dowel will turn as it's being driven in and straighten back out.  I had to use a steel hammer to do the driving, my wooden mallet didn't have enough heft.  Super strong joint.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5969
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2015, 08:36 AM »
If the wood is red oak, it is a very poor choice for an outdoor project. White oak is a good choice.

Account for water shedding on the bottom rail.

I used the 500, glued with TB III, clamped tightly.

Tom


Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6104
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2015, 11:02 AM »
If the wood is red oak, it is a very poor choice for an outdoor project. White oak is a good choice.

Account for water shedding on the bottom rail.

I used the 500, glued with TB III, clamped tightly.

Tom


Very nice Tom, what's the angle, around 10 degrees? What size Domino and loose or tight?

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2015, 11:15 AM »
It'll be a green oak (White European) construction I think. Getting some prices on timber next week and will take it from there.

I can imagine it'll probably be fairly rough and ready by the time I've finished with it.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5969
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2015, 11:21 AM »
If the wood is red oak, it is a very poor choice for an outdoor project. White oak is a good choice.

Account for water shedding on the bottom rail.

I used the 500, glued with TB III, clamped tightly.

Tom


Very nice Tom, what's the angle, around 10 degrees? What size Domino and loose or tight?

I don't recall exactly, but 10ยบ sounds about right.

5mm x 50 mm. I made my own out of QSWO I have here. Tight and tight, it is very rare that I use any setting other than tight.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5969
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2015, 11:23 AM »
It'll be a green oak (White European) construction I think. Getting some prices on timber next week and will take it from there.

I can imagine it'll probably be fairly rough and ready by the time I've finished with it.

When you get the wood cut off a 6" piece, place one end in a glass of water blow threw the other end. If you get air bubbles it is a poor choice for outdoor projects. It will wick up water.

Tom

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Oak framed porch - Domino selection
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2015, 01:28 PM »
When you get the wood cut off a 6" piece, place one end in a glass of water blow threw the other end. If you get air bubbles it is a poor choice for outdoor projects. It will wick up water.

Tom

Appreciate the info, but it'd be a bit late to do that once it's here and paid for. This is probably the gear I am going for as I know the saw doctor who works there, and am hoping for a bit of discount. http://www.vastern.co.uk/beams/green-oak-beams/

It'll be raised off the ground though, by about a couple of feet.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.