Bob Marino
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Location: Glen Ridge, NJ Member Since: Jan 2007
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« on: June 25, 2011, 01:06 PM » |
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After much much trial, testing, checking, frustration and ultimately, disappointment, I returned the Imac back to Apple.
A few thoughts to share about my decision as well as Apple. As mentioned in my original threads about PC vs Apple, my needs are relatively modest; efficient cruising of the Net, basic Excel, be able to easily log onto my Citrix based warehouse site. Excellent customer service, the ability to speak to a real live person, or bring it into any Apple store for repair, high quality materials, attention to design, stable pricing and many positive comments from MAC owners heavily influenced me. Good graphics and the fact that the MACS are not as plagued by viruses as the PCs were also pluses. There are more reasons, but you get the point.
Anyhow, after losing Internet connections - while my other PCs didn't, and the absolute inability to properly connect to Citrix; this after a whole bunch of fixes with Citrix were tried and failed, finalized my decision to return the Imac and get a PC. I did give some thought to placing Windows 7 on the Mac and using a program called Parallels or Bootcamp? to enable my MAC to run Citrix...and Excel, but just wasn't willing to pump out more $$$$ and time into it. I didn't buy a MAC to run a PC. Also, I was availing myself of Apple's One to One program; but really using that to learn how to use the Mac's features - features that I knew how to use on the PC, but had to relearn the Mac's version.
Having said all that, I would say that Apple's products are higher quality - the screen's resolution is higher than HDTV, the mouse and pad are aluminum, not plastic, etc., etc. and their customer service and support are leagues ahead of any others - Dell, HP, etc. BTW, went to the HP website to check their computers out, called the Customer service 800 number and got routed to a HP call center in the Philippines - welcome to the PC world.
I later reluctantly went to Best Buy, spoke to a fairly knowledgeable young salesperson and bought a HP. I say reluctantly, because as also mentioned in my previous post, what I bought for $850.00 yesterday, will be around $650.00 in 3 months and unavailable in 6 months.
So, at the end of the day, the Mac just did not work for me and had to go back. Shame, better machine, better customer service - all the things I highly regard, but again, just wasn't cutting it for me. Maybe one day though....
Bob
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« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 09:50 AM by Bob Marino »
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fidelfs
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Location: Houston, TX Member Since: Mar 2007
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2011, 01:21 PM » |
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My condolences
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There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.
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pugilato
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Location: Rincón, Puerto Rico Member Since: Mar 2011
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2011, 02:55 PM » |
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Sorry to hear, but that's ok... it (whatever it is) needs to work for you and not the other way around.
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Jesse Cloud
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Festooling at the end of a dirt road in New Mexico
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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2011, 02:57 PM » |
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Thanks for sharing this experience Bob. I am getting pretty frustrated with PCs and the amount of effort needed to keep them running. Even after hearing your story, I am still on the fence - just might pull the trigger on an IMAC.... BTW, I'm not surprised that CITRIX was a problem, back in the days when I worked for a living, I spent lots and lots of time (and made lots of money) wrestling with CITRIX issues.
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Peter Halle
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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2011, 02:59 PM » |
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Bob,
Sorry to hear about the issues, but I honestly think that you made the correct decision. No sense costing yourself more time, money, and aggravation! Hope you like - or at least can use - your new computer.
Peter
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day. The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy. They also were in the minority. Their complaint: They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in. I guess the truth hurts.
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Tom Bellemare
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Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
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« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2011, 03:01 PM » |
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Bob:
I have an HP laptop and a Dell desktop. Both are running Windows 7 and both have worked flawlessly for months. Prior to 7, I was still using NT because it appeared to me to be the last stable OS for a PC.
I have worked with computers for 40 years. There's nothing wrong with a modern PC that I can tell.
Tom
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Shane Holland
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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2011, 03:19 PM » |
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 Tried to warn you, Bob.  I have to say, IMO, Dell has the absolute worst support and service among major PC makers. I would never buy another Dell. I've had good luck with HP, which is what we use at the office. If you want a more custom box, iBuyPower is a good place to look - geared more toward gaming and high performance types. Good prices, good support and tons of hardware choices. These PCs are also going to be highly upgradable compared to most of the big PC makers who sometimes use more proprietary components. Of course, the most diehard built their own boxes which I've been doing for the past 20+ years. |
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fritter63
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2011, 04:28 PM » |
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I think you gave up too easy.
When you've had customers that weren't used to "the Festool way", did you advise them to return all their tools? Or did you work to educate them and learn the system ?
My mom was just having problems with her Mac staying on the Internet , however she was connecting through my wireless ( we're next-door) just fine.
When she admitted that her router was probably 8 years old, I had her get an airport extreme ($179) and it took 5 minutes to set it up. that's all her devices, apple notebook, ipAd, iPhone, and two windows boxes.
The point being, these network routers Are finicky and when you get a new machine with the latest protocol software, they seem to be a problem .
My Mac notebook is 6 now, just waiting till next month for the new MacBook air to replace it.
Posted from my iPhone while waiting for a movie to start....
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WarnerConstCo.
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Location: Auburn, In usa Member Since: Apr 2008
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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2011, 06:19 PM » |
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Good for you Bob.
I am happy with my Lenovo.
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Steve R
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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2011, 06:58 PM » |
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Bob,
Nice followup about your decision. I really like that you don't trash Apple in your review. They do make a good product for some people. All my tests have never shown their closed architecture to give the options that I and the companies I have worked with needed.
I have had good luck with all PCs except Dell. Love the Micron computers but they are now go. HP has been a great workhorse. My HP laptop has a 1 TB of HD on two disks so backup and security of data are a breeze.
Rock On!
Cheers,
Steve
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"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)
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pugilato
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2011, 07:07 PM » |
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I wonder how many of the PCs out there are secretly gloating...
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Bob Marino
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Location: Glen Ridge, NJ Member Since: Jan 2007
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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2011, 07:16 PM » |
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Thanks for sharing this experience Bob. I am getting pretty frustrated with PCs and the amount of effort needed to keep them running. Even after hearing your story, I am still on the fence - just might pull the trigger on an IMAC.... BTW, I'm not surprised that CITRIX was a problem, back in the days when I worked for a living, I spent lots and lots of time (and made lots of money) wrestling with CITRIX issues.
Jesse, If you you can work with the 'limitations" of the Imacs, I think you would be impressed. Funny, because others with the Imac have used the Citrix sites -w/o too many issues, but I was not able to...unless I wanted to keep pecking away at it; but by that time, I could have been way passed the return period. Bob |
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Bob Marino
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Location: Glen Ridge, NJ Member Since: Jan 2007
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2011, 07:17 PM » |
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Bob:
I have an HP laptop and a Dell desktop. Both are running Windows 7 and both have worked flawlessly for months. Prior to 7, I was still using NT because it appeared to me to be the last stable OS for a PC.
I have worked with computers for 40 years. There's nothing wrong with a modern PC that I can tell.
Tom
Tom, Agree! B |
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Bob Marino
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2011, 07:19 PM » |
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Tried to warn you, Bob. Ok, okay , okaaaaaaaaaaaaay! You sure did - especially knowing my non-techy nature so well.  B |
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Bob Marino
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Location: Glen Ridge, NJ Member Since: Jan 2007
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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2011, 07:22 PM » |
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Bob,
Nice followup about your decision. I really like that you don't trash Apple in your review. They do make a good product for some people. All my tests have never shown their closed architecture to give the options that I and the companies I have worked with needed.
Rock On!
Cheers,
Steve
Steve, Why trash Apple? Overall, it's better made and way, way better supported. Bob |
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Shane Holland
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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2011, 07:24 PM » |
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Agreed, Steve. Even though I'm not pro-Mac, I will agree that the company has lofty principles and takes pride in their products and good service. The fact is that I'm just deeply rooted in the PC world. With the exception of a few industries, like graphic design, PCs rule the roost. Mac just doesn't have the broad offerings of software available on PC. I do think that the existence of Mac has advanced and offered healthy competition to the PC market. I respect Apple/Mac and what they represent. It seems too many folks that I know personally who have used PCs for years have had trouble making the leap to Mac. Most people use PCs at work and have an existing familiarity with them.
In the end, go with what works best for you personally, whatever that might be. Sounds like Bob gave it an honest go.
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Bob Marino
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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2011, 07:26 PM » |
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I wonder how many of the PCs out there are secretly gloating...
Why's that?  Because I wasn't techy enough to make it swing for me? Again, had it worked with Citrix, I'd have kept it in a heartbeat. I can understand better now why most people who have their Mac's love em'. B |
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Bob Marino
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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2011, 07:30 PM » |
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Bob,
Sorry to hear about the issues, but I honestly think that you made the correct decision. No sense costing yourself more time, money, and aggravation! Hope you like - or at least can use - your new computer.
Peter
Peter, Thanks and you know better than all how I wanted it to work - and thanks for your time and assistance. B |
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Peter Halle
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« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2011, 08:26 PM » |
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Bob,
Sorry to hear about the issues, but I honestly think that you made the correct decision. No sense costing yourself more time, money, and aggravation! Hope you like - or at least can use - your new computer.
Peter
Peter, Thanks and you know better than all how I wanted it to work - and thanks for your time and assistance. B Bob, I would still like to have that troublesome file to see if there was an issue with your software. A year after my darling wife gave me my first Festool and gave my the opportunity to get into the system she asked me why I was impressed. I told her "Because they do what they say that will do. They just work for me. It didn't work for you. Darn good decision on your part. |
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day. The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy. They also were in the minority. Their complaint: They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in. I guess the truth hurts.
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PeterK
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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2011, 08:35 AM » |
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Bob - you have handled this extremely well. Love your logical, non emotional discussion on this thread. Really tough to do with the PC versus Mac crowds!! Very well explained.
I have struggled with the Mac OS as I have been a PC user since the very first IBM personal computer was released and just am too familiar with the whole DOS to Windows OSs. I do hate the build quality of any PC Laptops over the last few years and now have 2 MacBook Pros (one for work and one for home) that are running Windows 7 exclusively using Bootcamp.
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Ken Nagrod
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2011, 06:15 PM » |
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Bob, Sorry to hear about all the trouble you were having, but like some others have said, get what works for you. Too bad Heathkit isn't still around. You could have made your own circuit boards and hand crafted YOUR computer.  Unfortunately most of the tech support is limited to India, Phillipines, a cave complex in Afghanistan, but there is one English speaking, easy to understand tech support guy in the U.S. Just call Shane.  |
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Peter Halle
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2011, 06:34 PM » |
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Bob, Sorry to hear about all the trouble you were having, but like some others have said, get what works for you. Too bad Heathkit isn't still around. You could have made your own circuit boards and hand crafted YOUR computer. Unfortunately most of the tech support is limited to India, Phillipines, a cave complex in Afghanistan, but there is one English speaking, easy to understand tech support guy in the U.S. Just call Shane. Shane loves to help out with Macs if my memory serves me correctly. Ask him anything. not  |
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day. The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy. They also were in the minority. Their complaint: They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in. I guess the truth hurts.
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Ken Nagrod
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2011, 06:41 PM » |
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Shane loves to help out with Macs if my memory serves me correctly. Ask him anything. not |
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Bob Marino
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2011, 09:05 PM » |
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Bob - you have handled this extremely well. Love your logical, non emotional discussion on this thread. Really tough to do with the PC versus Mac crowds!! Very well explained.
I have struggled with the Mac OS as I have been a PC user since the very first IBM personal computer was released and just am too familiar with the whole DOS to Windows OSs. I do hate the build quality of any PC Laptops over the last few years and now have 2 MacBook Pros (one for work and one for home) that are running Windows 7 exclusively using Bootcamp.
Hey Pete, I never had a dog in the race; just thought the IMAC wouldn't have had issues with my programs I need. Again, if I were more patient, I'm fairly sure some type of patch or go around would have worked, but did not want to keep fiddling around. Again, perhaps if I did choose to keep fiddling I would have got to appreciate all that the MACS have to offer. B |
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GPowers
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2011, 09:40 PM » |
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Sorry to hear about all your Mac problems. But business is business and if a PC fits the job then......
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Greg Powers
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kdzito
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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2011, 04:24 PM » |
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Bob,
Unfortunately the computer is necessary to do anything these days and as the FOG knows they also don't hold their value like a Festool.
Macs aren't for everyone as if I had to use one at work I would have tossed out the window by now. I do have a Mac at home and my wife drives me crazy as she's had a really hard time adjusting to it, while I've been lucky and blessed with the ability to use it without any issues. I've learned over the past few years that technologically in trying to keep up with the Jones' is no longer worth my time and money. Thus no i phone, i pad, and my MP3 player is a 5th generation ipod, while my imac is 4 years old. See even though I love and have more than one of Apple's gadgets, I can keep away from buying more of them until the ones I have are obsolete as if using a Commodore 64 now (I'm only 41). I still bought a tube TV (cost $550) even though the flat screens were available at the time and they were around $2K. My PC at work was 5 years old until the mother board went bad and now I have a new one.
Really the computer (electronic) world has too much of an influence on us and sucks the money right out of our pockets stronger than a Festool vac or buying a new Festool and I resist in any way I can instead of giving in every 1 to 3 years to get the newest or priciest electronic gadget.
So with all said, I'm happy that you went with the PC and saved some huge $$$.
Take care,
Kurt
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« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 04:28 PM by kdzito »
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To build with my two hands is a creative outlet.
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RDMuller
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2011, 09:03 PM » |
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I own several Macs and several PC's. Do I have a preference? Yes, but I won't say it here because it all depends on the software APPLICATIONS. In this case, the APPLICATIONS dictate you go to windows Bob. Good choice. You gave the Mac an above and beyond effort. No matter how sweet, sexy and eloquent a Corvette is, it won't haul plywood! Sometimes you would be better off with a pickup!
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GPowers
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2011, 10:07 PM » |
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I own several Macs and several PC's. Do I have a preference? Yes, but I won't say it here because it all depends on the software APPLICATIONS. In this case, the APPLICATIONS dictate you go to windows Bob. Good choice. You gave the Mac an above and beyond effort. No matter how sweet, sexy and eloquent a Corvette is, it won't haul plywood! Sometimes you would be better off with a pickup!
If you cut the plywood small enough a Corvette will haul plywood. And it will do it quickly . |
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Greg Powers
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Ken Nagrod
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« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2011, 10:12 PM » |
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You forgot they make convertible Corvettes.
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Roseland
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« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2011, 03:10 AM » |
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Really disappointing you had grief with Citrix. We've run it and never had a glitch.
A
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