Jeesh Bob - you might as well start selling Ryobi's!

Sounds like the folks that fault Festool's because their too complicated to use, metric, etc.  When we here know they're worth the xtra $$ and time spent figuring out how to use em.

Your $850 HP will be worth $35 in 8 months.  A $1000 iMac would be worth $650 a year later and $450 two years later.

Welcome to viruses and hassles.  Would have been worth the effort to get it ironed out...

They say that within 20 seconds of connecting to broadband, a new pc will be infected.  I've used Macs since 99 with no virus software with no issues.

Takes two hands to count the number of times per week I get spam emails from friends and acquaintances who's computers have been infected and are sending spam through their email accounts.  Takes another two hands to count the folks who complain about their computer's being slow or at the shop to be cleaned up and reset.

Why anyone would buy a PC I don't know...
Macs:
- no viruses
- high resale
- better hardware
- longevity of os/hardware compatibility
- better integration of os
- loaded with simple powerful apps
- better design, build
- did I say no viruses?

For you - compatibility with your warehousing network is key to your business, but for folks without those specific-type concerns, Macs are a better choice from any and all angles.

Julian

That's like suggesting all those folks buying Craftsman tools at Sears or the new Porter Cable cordless stuff at Lowes know better than the folks here buying Festool products.

Can't have it both ways...

JT

Well, like most of the folks here, I'm quite sure of my opinions of quality and the value of spending a bit more to get it, along with the benefits that come from buying better tools (and computers, in this case).

I'll admit to being a tool snob as well.  If I have contractor's on a job using Ryobi or Craftsman tools, I do loose a bit of respect for them, or at least understand that they have no concept of quality tools; perhaps of quality work as well.

I have my limits as well though - not gonna spend $50 on a router bit or $400 for 38 driver and drill bits...

JT

Losing respect for a contractor because of the tools they use is not tool snobbery, its insanity.

It is the final product and quality of work that counts, not the tools they use. A Ryobi does the EXACT same thing a Festool does, the tools do not make the work better, the user does. Around here a lot of guys keep their good stuff home and have a completely different set for the jobs. The tools they use has absolutely no bearing on the quality work they do. Many here admit they have loads of Festools and are horrible woodworkers and do it as a hobby.

Its like the plumbers I used. The guy that came in with the fancy truck and all the current stuff  and the clean and fancy tools did NOT pass the inspections. He laughed at the other sub that he called bucket plumbers. Well those bucket plumbers and their old rusty tools never failed an inspection and their work was always top of the line!

Not to mention some of these so called cheap tools outperform the Festools for less than 1/2 the money. I am not getting into it to much, but many here in the last day have said the new Ryobi drill is a fantastic tool! Compare the persons work, not their tools.

Remember guys, we here in the states get a lot better pricing on tools. I guarantee some 25.00 USD cutters are as good or the same exact cutters you guys  pay almost double for. I consider us lucky over here.

Yes, good cutters are worth it, unless you ever hardly use them then throw a ways are fine. I find the lower quality cutters just don't last as long, but the first 100- 150 feet are just fine.

Well of course, it goes without saying, you know, you can't judge a book by it's cover.  But I assume Julian was speaking in generality and I agree with him, at least to some extent. 

As to PCs being overly problematic in regards to viruses, that's not been my experience.  I've never had a virus cause a problem that I needed to be concerned with.             

You sure are. 


A good tool does not a good contractor make. 

The current anti-virus software is very good and reasonably priced.  There is software that is pretty darn good for free.  The software I used was included for free for 24 months.  It does its thing without my spending any time dealing with it.  It will only bring a problem it can't deal with to my attention, but that hasn't happened yet and I doubt it will. 





I never though of resale value because I've never thought of selling a computer.  I've never looked but I'd be surprised that a two old PC laptop only being worth $25 unless it was pretty beat up, I'm sure a beat Mac would be worth considerably less too.     

I've been looking for a used laptop for my mother the last month and I only wished they came at 25% retail price. For a two year old laptop they certainly want at least 70% and 4-6 year olds go still for 50% minimum. No idea why you would want a 4 year old piece of hardware anyway, with the rate modern hardware develops, it's severely outdated already. You can also be sure that a 4 year old laptop comes with a dead battery so you can add a new one to the cost also, if you're lucky enough to find one.

As for virusses, their relevance is greatly exaggerated by some. Like me, most people never have a problem with them. I own and build my own pc's now for 15 years and I've only had two or three major problems with virusses in that time. Problems which were easily resolved in a day's time, by the way. I have my virus scanner and my firewall turned off all the time, because their restricting measures bother me a lot more than any virus does. And I'm one of those guys who downloads, installs and experiments with about any program or utility I can get my hands on. I just run my virus scanner manually once in a while and it hardly finds anything but tracking coockies.   

Anyway, my view is, if you like one system or the other, Mac or PC, fine, but respect people with different opinions.

John, I don't mind at all because secretly I know I'm the smarter one.  With the thousands I've saved buying PC's over the years I've bought a ton more Festools.

The main reason there are barely any viruses for mac(there are some)is that it is not worth a hacker time to create the virus. That's a fact. Why would anyone try to exploit a few million users when they could mess with a billion+ PC machines. Google it, the mac is just as easy to get into and make viruses for. It's simply a numbers game and is not worth anyone's time when there are so many PC's to infiltrate.

When any mac user can come close to the performance of my machine (and 3 d graphics as well!) at 1/2 the cost get back to me. I will put up my home made machine against the best macs on the market and my machine is 12 months old!

Well,

Joraft, it is both ways.  I work with high technologiy companies, with the gratest and latest tools.  This is how It is my work every day.

Most of the companies are using pc windows for the clients, (users like you and me).  They have big servers, using windows, Unix, linix what not.

Most of the companies IT decides what the users will use as tools and computers.  It has been traditionally pc and windows.

I was strugling early 2000 with some requirements, because at that time, it was a big thing with the companies, moving into the web.  Most of the tools to have graphics were on mac or very expensive windows versions, that require a very advance graphic card and processor for their graphics.

I decide to buy my first mac.  I discover that it was not much difference that windows, but some tasks were simplier and easier than windows base OS.  I kept using my mac and linix at home, and windows at work.
People say that apple users are snow, but my experience is windows user always try to tell me how dumb I am for drinking the apple cool aid.  How I am wasting my monyey, etc.  See, it is the other side of the coin.

Nowdays the big IT Departments are opening up and letting users pick their tools, so I am seing more diversity on the workplace, linux laptops and apple laptops.

It is not that 92% know better, I would say 92% of that 92% dont know what they are  buying.  They just buy for impulse, or seing some bechmarks published by a magazine paid by the manufacturer to print the info.

So, if it works for you be happy, if you want test the waters in the other side it is not that bad ( either side)

Well, wadda ya know, another smug remark by a Mac fanboy.    You guys just can't help yourselves, can you?  Thanks for once again proving the point Joraft made. 

Tsk, tsk.

Alex, if you want to put it out of context to prove your point is ok, but that it is not what I said.