Author Topic: 120V Sys Power Box  (Read 15816 times)

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Offline Dick Mahany

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120V Sys Power Box
« on: January 01, 2018, 01:46 PM »
Thanks to some inspiration found here on the FOG, I decided to build a US 120V power distribution box in a Systainer.  I just need to finish the inside rear cover panel and install a strain relief for the cord.  I used 12 gauge wire throughout and it was a little difficult to work in close quarters without distorting the systainer.  I was going to use a GFI, however all of the outlets that I typically use are already GFI protected. 

I'm only using this at home for my own personal use, so I'm not worried about OSHA or UL regulations. Just wish we could get a US version of the European power hub.  Any body listening at Festool?   [wink]




« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 09:49 AM by Dick Mahany »

Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2018, 05:53 PM »
I agree. Anyone listening?

Nice work BTW! :)

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2018, 07:46 PM »
Yeah, and pretty good combination in the CT-Sys stack. Makes sense.

Seth

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2018, 10:31 PM »
We have been waiting for the NA version for a long time.... [sad]
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Offline Don T

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2018, 12:18 AM »
NIce setup. What size systainer?
RO150, C12, DF 500 Q, CT33, TS75, MFT3, Kapex 120, MFT3/Kapex, MFK 700, RO 90, ETS150/3, CT22, Centrotec Installers Kit, Parallel Guides & Ext, Carvex, OF1400, LR32 Set, MFS400 w/700 rails, KA UG Set, First Aid Kit, RTS 400 EQ, Vecturo OS400 Set, CT Wings, CT Drill Guide, Pro 5, CXS, C18, HL850

Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2018, 03:03 AM »
We have been waiting for the NA version for a long time.... [sad]

So, since I don't see this happening anytime soon, I thought I'd share the results of my research into sourcing the components I'll be using to convert a new to me (but lightly used) Sys III into a DIY 120V/60Hz SYS-PH.

For outlets, I plan to use either the following, which are designed for installation in panels:



NEMA 5/15 Panel Outlet w/Spring-Loaded Cover, Black

...or these (which are also intended for panel installs):



NEMA 5-15 Panel Outlet w/ Spring Loaded Cover, Blue

Since the former are half the price of the latter, I'll likely opt for a selection of the less expensive ones, in which case I'll need to also procure some female terminal ends:



...to facilitate wire-up. I figure that after I've sunk the appropriate number and diameter of holes into the front of the systainer, I'll use pop rivets to fasten the outlets to the systainer wall.

As for protection on the inside of the systainer, I may or may not fasten a junction box behind each respective outlet (this will depend on how hermetically-sealed I make the plywood shroud that will cover the new work).

I also plan to install a single red LED indicator light like this one:



Indicator Light

...into the front face of the systainer to indicate whether or not the outlets are live.

I'm considering installing a standard 15A GFCI outlet upstream of the various outlets (ideally, mounted inside the systainer in the aforementioned plywood shroud) for ground fault protection but am hesitant to do so out of concern over high draw hand tools possibly causing false readings. Not sure if this concern is valid or not but it would be a nice place to tie in the short length of heavy duty power cord that I plan to use to supply power to the outlets (most often via a plug plugged into my Starmix vac).

I'm calculating that the entire project, including the US$50 I spent on the used systainer, will cost approximately US$100. My plan is to use the remaining space inside in the systainer for storage of a power cord (or two?) and a couple of battery chargers and some batteries, etc. We'll see.

Oh, and another even less expensive outlet option might be these snap-in (but non-dust cover protected) versions:



120V 15A US Socket, Panel Mount, NEMA 5-15R

Compatibility will depend on the thickness of the panel they are intended for (no idea if the intended panel thickness is thinner or thicker than the wall of a systainer).

So, just some ideas in case anyone else can benefit....
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 03:51 AM by TinyShop »

Offline Svar

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2018, 03:14 AM »
I'm curious what is the purpose of it? It's equivalent to a simple power strip, but 20 times bigger. Not to mention the cost. Why?

Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2018, 03:22 AM »
Efficiency mostly. I hate stumbling around cords in tight spaces and I can always use more sys storage (even if some of the interior volume will be eaten up by the associated wiring). Plus, it just adds to the professional look I'm aiming for. Also, I figure that the associated wiring and shroud won't take up any more room than a beefy power strip. So, nothing really lost (other than the ~US$50) while some improvements gained.

Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2018, 03:27 AM »
NIce setup. What size systainer?

Judging from the three horizontal lines on the front face of his systainer (under each label slot), it's a Sys III.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 03:33 AM by TinyShop »

Offline Womble

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2018, 06:22 AM »
There is many UK people who been wanting a 110v UK version of the Power Hub myself included.

But Festool have been neglecting the 110v UK construction workers for a while now by only releasing many of their tools in 240v only versions, even when they claim in their lovely marketing literature they been designed for rugged site use.

I will point out that Festool are not the only company doing this Metabo (among others) are also not releasing 110v version of loads of their tools, not sure if they trying to pressure the UK into adopting 240v only across the board ( i know 110v isn't the law but it is the standard for site use whether we like it or not & its not going to change any time soon)

Offline Naildrivingman

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2018, 04:55 PM »
We have been waiting for the NA version for a long time.... [sad]

So, since I don't see this happening anytime soon, I thought I'd share the results of my research into sourcing the components I'll be using to convert a new to me (but lightly used) Sys III into a DIY 120V/60Hz SYS-PH.

For outlets, I plan to use either the following, which are designed for installation in panels:



NEMA 5/15 Panel Outlet w/Spring-Loaded Cover, Black

...or these (which are also intended for panel installs):



NEMA 5-15 Panel Outlet w/ Spring Loaded Cover, Blue

Since the former are half the price of the latter, I'll likely opt for a selection of the less expensive ones, in which case I'll need to also procure some female terminal ends:



...to facilitate wire-up. I figure that after I've sunk the appropriate number and diameter of holes into the front of the systainer, I'll use pop rivets to fasten the outlets to the systainer wall.

As for protection on the inside of the systainer, I may or may not fasten a junction box behind each respective outlet (this will depend on how hermetically-sealed I make the plywood shroud that will cover the new work).

I also plan to install a single red LED indicator light like this one:



Indicator Light

...into the front face of the systainer to indicate whether or not the outlets are live.

I'm considering installing a standard 15A GFCI outlet upstream of the various outlets (ideally, mounted inside the systainer in the aforementioned plywood shroud) for ground fault protection but am hesitant to do so out of concern over high draw hand tools possibly causing false readings. Not sure if this concern is valid or not but it would be a nice place to tie in the short length of heavy duty power cord that I plan to use to supply power to the outlets (most often via a plug plugged into my Starmix vac).

I'm calculating that the entire project, including the US$50 I spent on the used systainer, will cost approximately US$100. My plan is to use the remaining space inside in the systainer for storage of a power cord (or two?) and a couple of battery chargers and some batteries, etc. We'll see.

Oh, and another even less expensive outlet option might be these snap-in (but non-dust cover protected) versions:



120V 15A US Socket, Panel Mount, NEMA 5-15R

Compatibility will depend on the thickness of the panel they are intended for (no idea if the intended panel thickness is thinner or thicker than the wall of a systainer).

So, just some ideas in case anyone else can benefit....
@TinyShop I have a really pesky suggestion for you if you choose to use the black outlet version. If possible, remove the door, turn it upside down and reinstall. I suggest because for me I kept having to bend over my vac to see the outlet when I plugged into it.  Flipping the door may introduce more option for dust to enter the outlet, but I am willing to accept this over wrenching my back.  If you can’t remove/reinstall the door, simply flip the outlet.  Just a suggestion.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2018, 05:32 PM »
@Naildrivingman - I didn't say so, but you are right. The ability to rotate the lid portion of the outlet to any cardinal heading (in the case of the black lidded outlet) is potentially very desirable. My Starmix (branded "CS Unitec") vac features a strikingly similar type of spring loaded lid over the tool outlet and it can be a little annoying to actuate in the vertical orientation. I'll keep your suggestion in mind. :) 

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2018, 05:45 PM »
Even just rotating it 90 degrees makes life easier.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2018, 06:34 PM »
Even the receptacle covers on the CT vans can be pulled off and rotated.  Can help support the cord and keep in plugged in in certain instances.  #festoolsedge did a recent instagram post on this to follow up with the training classes over the years.

Peter

Offline Dick Mahany

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2018, 06:48 PM »
Even the receptacle covers on the CT vans can be pulled off and rotated.  Can help support the cord and keep in plugged in in certain instances.  #festoolsedge did a recent instagram post on this to follow up with the training classes over the years.

Peter

I saw that great tip from Sedge only last week and immediately went out and rotated the one on my CT36 180.  I really don't care for the two handed requirement when plugging in tools and that is why I used standard outlets. Sedge has some great stuff out there.

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2018, 01:45 PM »
What about buying the UK 220v version and then converting it to USA 110v plugs and re-wire it to 110 Volts. That way you get the recessed front and the interior plastic wiring divider.  True it would be a little expensive but you would have the Power hub and it would be a 110V USA version.  [big grin]
Greg Powers
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Offline Naildrivingman

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2018, 08:57 PM »
Even the receptacle covers on the CT vans can be pulled off and rotated.  Can help support the cord and keep in plugged in in certain instances.  #festoolsedge did a recent instagram post on this to follow up with the training classes over the years.

Peter
And here I thought I had a million dollar idea....sheesh that festoolsedge guy!
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2018, 09:16 PM »
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 09:23 PM by Greg Powers »
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Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2018, 09:36 PM »
Greg - Mic drop! ;)

Offline Kevin C.

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2018, 10:38 PM »
darn Greg, that looks fantastic!

Offline neilc

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2018, 10:41 PM »
Very cool!  Congrats!  Where did you order from and where did you find the replacement receptacles?  Tell us more!

Nice project!

Offline BJM9818

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2018, 01:03 AM »
Greg great idea.


Love to know where you got the Power systainer. What I would also like to make is a 30amp twist lock I can use with my Honda 3000is to feed two separate 120v  circuits or even two independent feeds to a sys power box.

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2018, 02:23 PM »
Greg great idea.
Love to know where you got the Power systainer.

Bought the Power Hub Systainer on Amazon UK. It was pricey but I wanted the recessed front  and the plastic divider on the inside. It was also a nice surprise, as the inside wiring was on a three bar bus, with plugs for each socket. Did not need to be rewired. Just change the socketts and the cord plug.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 02:39 PM by Greg Powers »
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Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2018, 02:31 PM »
Where did you order from and where did you find the replacement receptacles?  Tell us more!

The blue 110 volt sockets matched the mounting holes exactly. There is a small relief that the sockets fix in too and these blue socket also fit in that recessed space. Too bad the blue sockets were not black. The black sockets I ordered had a wider mounting hole pattern. The blue sockets were also twice the cost of the black ones.

You can find the blue sockets on Ebay and Amazon.

Once I had the sockets the conversion took only about 30 mintues to do. Very easy too do.
Greg Powers
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Offline six-point socket II

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2018, 02:35 PM »
Thats a great conversion!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2018, 02:40 PM »
Thats a great conversion!

Kind regards,
Oliver

The only option for us here in the USA.
Greg Powers
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Offline Trevin

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2018, 04:52 PM »
I LIKE it Greg!,
Do you have a link to the outlets?  Cannot find them on ebay or amazon....
Thanks,
Trevin
Festool: MFT3 (x2), OF1010, OF1400, LR32, Domino DF500, Domino XL DF700, Kapex KS120, TS-75, Carvex 420, CXS, C-18, Vecturo OS 400, DTS 400, Pro 5, Rotex 125, VAC-PMP, VAC-SYS-1, VAC-SYS-2, CT-26 (x2), CT-SYS, SYS Light DUO, SYS-ROCK
Other: Minmax FS41, Sawstop PCS (3HP, 52"), Laguna BX14, Jet 17" Drill Press, Rikon 70-220VSR Lathe, Incra LS Router Station, Laguna P/Flux 3 Dust Collector

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 04:55 PM »
I LIKE it Greg!,
Do you have a link to the outlets?  Cannot find them on ebay or amazon....
Thanks,
Trevin

On Amazon:

Description: Waterproof Panel Mount,Generator NEMA 5-15R Socket & Receptacle,15A 125V,Grdg (ETA:7-12 WORK DAYS)
Link: http://a.co/fHbuvky

The sockets ship from China so it takes awhile to get. Mine took 10 days. User @Naildrivingman sourced them in his post above.

Festool 220V Power Hub
Link: http://amzn.eu/09lmH3o

The Power Hub ships from the UK 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 05:00 PM by Greg Powers »
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Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 04:58 PM »
Greg - for posterity's sake, and if you have an additional minute, how about a photo showing the bus bar/guts of the system? Thanks! :)

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2018, 05:05 PM »
Greg - for posterity's sake, and if you have an additional minute, how about a photo showing the bus bar/guts of the system? Thanks! :)
@TinyShop I was hesitant to post that Photo. As I fear Festool/FOG board moderators will take down the post for modifying the guts of one of their products. The inside plastic divider is secured with security screws, so Festool does not want customers messing with the wiring. If it is OK with the FOG board moderators I can post. Other wise you can message me. 
Greg Powers
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Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2018, 05:07 PM »
Nice job Greg...👍

Just one more item to add to my “to do” list.  [smile]

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2018, 05:15 PM »
Nice job Greg...👍

Just one more item to add to my “to do” list.  [smile]

Thanks  [big grin]

@Cheese Just remember it is a EXPENSIVE solution. The Sockets are $12 each or $60 for all 5. Plus $205 (134 British pounds) for the UK Power Hub Systainer. So it is a very expensive power strip. But it is something I have wanted ever since Festool started shipping the Power Hub in Europe several years ago. Just something fun to have as you really can not justify the cost.  [tongue]
Greg Powers
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2018, 05:40 PM »
Greg - for posterity's sake, and if you have an additional minute, how about a photo showing the bus bar/guts of the system? Thanks! :)
@TinyShop I was hesitant to post that Photo. As I fear Festool/FOG board moderators will take down the post for modifying the guts of one of their products. The inside plastic divider is secured with security screws, so Festool does not want customers messing with the wiring. If it is OK with the FOG board moderators I can post. Other wise you can message me.

@Greg Powers , as much as I really hate to say it, you were correct.  I too would love to see what you did but showing others will have to be done off the forum.  And just because the system doesn't allow image in PM you may have to resort to email.

Sorry,

Peter

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2018, 06:06 PM »

@Cheese Just remember it is a EXPENSIVE solution. The Sockets are $12 each or $60 for all 5. Plus $205 (134 British pounds) for the UK Power Hub Systainer. So it is a very expensive power strip.

It is expensive but I look at it this way. $265 plus for the SYS and extra parts, however when Festool finally gets around to releasing a US version, they’ll probably charge at least that much for it in the states.  [tongue]

I’ve located some black receptacles that should work. Do you know the dimensions of the receptacle bolt pattern?

Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2018, 06:10 PM »
Peter (can't tag you for some reason) - I should have been more clear I guess. I was only requesting an image of the internals pre-mod. I can't find on any online so I thought we would all benefit from being able to see what's going under the hood, so to speak, of a stock SYS-PH.

Offline neilc

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2018, 06:28 PM »
Peter (can't tag you for some reason) - I should have been more clear I guess. I was only requesting an image of the internals pre-mod. I can't find on any online so I thought we would all benefit from being able to see what's going under the hood, so to speak, of a stock SYS-PH.

See the third image in his initial post number 17 above.  That shows the interior and the security screws...

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2018, 06:33 PM »
Greg - for posterity's sake, and if you have an additional minute, how about a photo showing the bus bar/guts of the system? Thanks! :)
@TinyShop I was hesitant to post that Photo. As I fear Festool/FOG board moderators will take down the post for modifying the guts of one of their products. The inside plastic divider is secured with security screws, so Festool does not want customers messing with the wiring. If it is OK with the FOG board moderators I can post. Other wise you can message me.

@Greg Powers , as much as I really hate to say it, you were correct.  I too would love to see what you did but showing others will have to be done off the forum.  And just because the system doesn't allow image in PM you may have to resort to email.

Sorry,

Peter


I completely understand. Still this is a great place to talk about all things FESTOOL.  [big grin]

Thanks
Greg Powers
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Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2018, 06:35 PM »

@Cheese Just remember it is a EXPENSIVE solution. The Sockets are $12 each or $60 for all 5. Plus $205 (134 British pounds) for the UK Power Hub Systainer. So it is a very expensive power strip.

It is expensive but I look at it this way. $265 plus for the SYS and extra parts, however when Festool finally gets around to releasing a US version, they’ll probably charge at least that much for it in the states.  [tongue]

I’ve located some black receptacles that should work. Do you know the dimensions of the receptacle bolt pattern?

@Cheese  PM me your email address and I can send you the specks from the blue sockets.
Greg Powers
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Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2018, 06:39 PM »
Peter (can't tag you for some reason) - I should have been more clear I guess. I was only requesting an image of the internals pre-mod. I can't find on any online so I thought we would all benefit from being able to see what's going under the hood, so to speak, of a stock SYS-PH.

See the third image in his initial post number 17 above.  That shows the interior and the security screws...

@neilc I think he wants to see the power bus and how the sockets are wired. A photo of what is behind the plastic divider and the security screws. That is what can not be posted here. But I would be glad to email to anyone that wants a Photo.
Greg Powers
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2018, 06:59 PM »
@Greg Powers , if you have an image pre-mod then I think that is ok to be posted here.  No different than taking a cover off of a tool to show the internals.

Peter

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2018, 07:00 PM »
Do you know the dimensions of the receptacle bolt pattern?

@Cheese The bolt mounting holes are 38mm center to center both horizontal and vertical. The outside edge of the socket is 50mm square.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 07:06 PM by Greg Powers »
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Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2018, 07:02 PM »
@Greg Powers , if you have an image pre-mod then I think that is ok to be posted here.  No different than taking a cover off of a tool to show the internals.

Peter

Yes the photos are pre-modification.
Greg Powers
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Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2018, 07:09 PM »
Thanks Greg! Wow, there's a lot more going on in there than I expected....

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2018, 07:14 PM »
Thanks Greg! Wow, there's a lot more going on in there than I expected....

@TinyShop It might look that way but with the power bus at the bottom Festool really reduce the wiring. I bet it makes assembly very easy and quick. Everything is just plug it in. No wire nuts or screw on connection.
Greg Powers
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Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2018, 07:38 PM »
Indeed, I just hadn't put much thought into what might be there. The use of a bus is obvious now that I see it. I'll keep this in mind for my own project....

Offline thudchkr

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2018, 07:45 PM »
The power-hub is also available on Amazon.de. Considerably cheaper there at 132.02 Euros. And that’s with the VAT still added in. I’m guessing that it would still end up cheaper even after adding in shipping. Been thinking about this as well.

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Offline JeremyH.

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2018, 03:00 AM »
Those push sockets are garbage. You're soo much better off with the replacements that have screws.

Transformer that you can switch between 5v and 10v boost for safety on Kapex? 

I wonder even if power factor correction would make tools run better...

But, everything is $ to add. If anyone wants to just "go all out" with any of that stuff, I can probably help.

Offline Bohdan

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2018, 03:44 AM »
I wonder even if power factor correction would make tools run better...

Power factor correction is for the benefit of the power supply company and has no effect on the load that you connect to that power.

PFC is there to minimise the transmission losses of supplying you that power.

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2018, 07:24 AM »
Greg, can you tell if the specifications on that pdf are the same for the blue socket?
Mario

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2018, 09:01 AM »
Greg, can you tell if the specifications on that pdf are the same for the blue socket?

That's funny Mario, those are the same receptacles I was looking at.  [smile]

Also of interest is they are rated IP54 vs IP44.

Thanks @Greg Powers for the dimensions 🙏, they agree with the dimensions of the International Configuration receptacle.

http://internationalconfig.com/icc6.asp?item=70020&submit1.x=14&submit1.y=7
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 09:11 AM by Cheese »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2018, 09:57 AM »
I'm curious what is the purpose of it? It's equivalent to a simple power strip, but 20 times bigger. Not to mention the cost. Why?

If it is done in a way that preserves a lot of the interior Systainer space, then additional extensions cords, adapters, battery charger and power related items could also be transported and stored in one unit that fits the stacking system. Maybe even a couple small lights.  If building a custom one the size could be whatever is needed to accommodate other things.

Not sure I would make good use of a power Sys but I do have a lighting kit in a Systainer. And maybe that could use a revamp to make it more multipurpose. One of the things I try to avoid is having a bunch of things like cord reels and odd ball shaped cases or things that are not in cases that make transport a hassle.

Seth

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2018, 09:59 AM »
Greg,


Is there a receptacle / outlet on the inside? Or does that serve a special purpose?

Seth

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2018, 10:12 AM »
FWIW...just got a note back from International Configuration and they have the 70020-BLK receptacles in stock at $6.46 each.  [smile]

However, they do have a $50 minimum charge.  [sad]

Offline JeremyH.

  • Posts: 196
Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2018, 12:09 PM »
I wonder even if power factor correction would make tools run better...

Power factor correction is for the benefit of the power supply company and has no effect on the load that you connect to that power.

PFC is there to minimise the transmission losses of supplying you that power.

While I'm not sure about saws, this is a woefully incorrect statement. Were you right then large office buildings wouldn't be requiring PFC built SMPSs to get around the problems developing where they're overusing electricity that has been making nutty harmonics & losing stability. And it has a substantial affect on all things audio.

Offline JeremyH.

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2018, 12:49 PM »
It does stack with existing stuff, which makes for a clean way to do things.

And I don't know how long you've been on the forum, looking or posting, but I think it's obvious anything Systainer goes around here. It doesn't have to make a ton of sense, be economical, or practical to be created.

BTW I think paying the price for stacking systems that leave a space looking clean is worth a pretty big dollar figure to many of us.

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2018, 01:05 PM »
FWIW...just got a note back from International Configuration and they have the 70020-BLK receptacles in stock at $6.46 each.  [smile]

However, they do have a $50 minimum charge.  [sad]

Simple, build two units and sell one  [wink]
Mario

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2018, 01:09 PM »
It does stack with existing stuff, which makes for a clean way to do things.

And I don't know how long you've been on the forum, looking or posting, but I think it's obvious anything Systainer goes around here. It doesn't have to make a ton of sense, be economical, or practical to be created.

BTW I think paying the price for stacking systems that leave a space looking clean is worth a pretty big dollar figure to many of us.

Plus one here.

Like I said all along it is a expensive plug strip. And you can not economically/business wise justify the cost. But I have wanted from  the first day Festool released the Power Hub.
Greg Powers
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Offline six-point socket II

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2018, 01:09 PM »
I'm curious what is the purpose of it? It's equivalent to a simple power strip, but 20 times bigger. Not to mention the cost. Why?

If it is done in a way that preserves a lot of the interior Systainer space, then additional extensions cords, adapters, battery charger and power related items could also be transported and stored in one unit that fits the stacking system. Maybe even a couple small lights.  If building a custom one the size could be whatever is needed to accommodate other things.

Not sure I would make good use of a power Sys but I do have a lighting kit in a Systainer. And maybe that could use a revamp to make it more multipurpose. One of the things I try to avoid is having a bunch of things like cord reels and odd ball shaped cases or things that are not in cases that make transport a hassle.

Seth

Seth makes a good point here.

I'd like to add the following:

The SYS-PH might seem "bulky" if compared to a power strip or simple cable reel - but if used with other Systainers, CTL-SYS, SYS-CART it makes for a very compact footprint and offers additional space.

For example (and without going into to much details, I try to keep it short): In Germany, if you do commercial work you are required to only use electric circuits that are deemed safe and in proper working condition.

This can be achieved in two ways:

1) The construction/ work site offers a power supply/distribution set up and tested by an electrician.
2) You use whatever power supply/distribution is available but you put your personal PRCD-S between supply and your tools/distribution. What it does especially, is that it won't stay on if there is anything wrong with the circuit you want to use. If the circuit checks out OK, it will provide additional safety like any RCCB/RCD.





So if you don't have a distribution with built in PRCD (which is then mostly as big/bulky as a systainer, maybe even more - and which abides by all rules/regulations) you will most definitely have at least one additional power strip with PRCD built in.

Since I take safety pretty seriously even though I don't do any commercial work, I have one of these and it fits perfectly into the SYS-PH together with the other power strip.



The SYS-PH is the first Systainer to go on my SYS-Cart - on top of it is my CTL-SYS.





This gives me options:

Plug CTL-SYS in SYS-PH and tool in CTL-SYS's socket

Plug CTL-SYS and tool in SYS-PH (Like pictured above, because I switched on and off manually)

Plug CTL-SYS and tool(s) in SYS-PH and one tool in CTL-SYS's socket.

In anyway, in essence you have only one cord running to your stack and everything packs up nicely and is easily moved - you can always just sling the cord around the stack an move within a minute from one place to the next.

I loved this when I had to put my stack on the patio's roof for example.

You might have no need for any of this, that's fine. But others might. ;)

Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 01:14 PM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2018, 01:10 PM »
Is it because it fits into the whole systainer eco-system, looks cool?

Bingo! [big grin]
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Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2018, 01:15 PM »
Greg;

Is there a receptacle / outlet on the inside? Or does that serve a special purpose?

Seth

@SRSemenza The receptacle on the inside is the same as the ones on the front. Nothing special.
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Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2018, 01:17 PM »
FWIW...just got a note back from International Configuration and they have the 70020-BLK receptacles in stock at $6.46 each.  [smile]

However, they do have a $50 minimum charge.  [sad]

@Cheese Do a group buy. Still a lot cheaper, half the price, than the ones I bought.
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Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2018, 01:20 PM »
Greg, can you tell if the specifications on that pdf are the same for the blue socket?

@Mario Turcot   You need 38mm center to center, horizontal and vertical for the mounting holes. The Outside dimensions are 50mm square.  Looks like the specks on the pdf match the screw holes not sure of outside dimensions as there are none on the PDF.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 01:30 PM by Greg Powers »
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Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2018, 01:56 PM »
You need 38mm center to center, horizontal and vertical for the mounting holes. The Outside dimensions are 50mm square.  Looks like the specks on the pdf match the screw holes not sure of outside dimensions as there are none on the PDF.

Excellent, thank you for replying :D
Mario

Offline JeremyH.

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2018, 02:21 PM »

So if you don't have a distribution with built in PRCD (which is then mostly as big/bulky as a systainer, maybe even more - and which abides by all rules/regulations) you will most definitely have at least one additional power strip with PRCD built in.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Progressive Retinal Atrophy? You might have to tell us in the US what PRCD means over there...

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2018, 02:31 PM »

So if you don't have a distribution with built in PRCD (which is then mostly as big/bulky as a systainer, maybe even more - and which abides by all rules/regulations) you will most definitely have at least one additional power strip with PRCD built in.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Progressive Retinal Atrophy? You might have to tell us in the US what PRCD means over there...

Hi Jeremy,

Sure. :) Switched Protective Earth Portable Residual Current Device = PRCD-S

It's a mobile version (with the additional functionality of detecting a faulty wiring/circuit and as result not staying "on") of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline JeremyH.

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2018, 04:04 PM »
Ah, figured but wasn't sure. In the Americas they call them GFCI.

I don't really care much for GFCI except for bathrooms and kitchens. They go bad way more than people think, and it's really confusing as to what is going on.

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #66 on: February 14, 2018, 09:05 AM »
I don't really care much for GFCI except for bathrooms and kitchens. They go bad way more than people think, and it's really confusing as to what is going on.

I have GFCI's on all the outside receptacles, I've had to replace 2 of them.  [sad]

I have GFCI's on the dish washer and the garbage disposal, I've had to replace both of them.  [sad]

I have GFCI's on all the runs in the basement, I've had to replace 3 of them also.  [sad]

It does seem like the newer Leviton versions are more reliable than the earlier Leviton versions.  [unsure]

Offline BJM9818

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #67 on: February 14, 2018, 11:11 PM »
Try the new Arc fault breakers. I’m  experiencing about a 10% failure rate right out of the box.

Offline JeremyH.

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #68 on: February 14, 2018, 11:46 PM »
Sensing a conspiracy for breaker "code" or "standards" of use related to investors in breaker companys...

It's not like after decades of problemless functions of good breaker (not all are equal), a bunch of cheap ones are magically going to be better for safety - under the presumption that people now suddenly just cannot resist dunking everything they plug into the wall into water........

When it comes to safety, outlawing back-stab outlets state by state has been a very positive thing. Those are a problem, not people dunking electronics into water.

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2018, 08:16 AM »
In all the years I worked as an electrician, I think I replaced less than 10 GFCIs.  My own "WOW Memorial PowerTainer" uses a whole-house surge suppressor from Square D to eliminate surges that often trash GFCIs. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2018, 09:06 AM »
Hi,

I've never had a GFCI fail.

Short version for Germany: they are required by law since May, 1st 1984 for all rooms having a bathtub or shower. And since February 1st 2009 for all circuits supplying receptacles/sockets/outlets up to 20A for use by "everybody" -> non-professionals.

Furthermore they have to be installed in a way that they will not interrupt complete supply -> light circuits should remain live for example.

There is no need to amend existing installations if they were according to code at some point in the past (meanin pre 1984 or 2009. However, major changes to existing circuits/supply require GFCI's to be installed according to current code.

Can't say that I've heard much complaints about faulty GFCI's. Like I said, mine work since the day they were installed.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2018, 09:58 AM »
In all the years I worked as an electrician, I think I replaced less than 10 GFCIs.  My own "WOW Memorial PowerTainer" uses a whole-house surge suppressor from Square D to eliminate surges that often trash GFCIs.


@Sparktrician
Thanks for that post. If I understand the HEPD80 correctly, it needs to be placed/connected as close to the main lugs as possible and then it will protect both legs of the system, is that correct?

Two of the GFCI's were knocked out because of lightning strikes and two others were taken out by an intermittent neutral from tree branches. That allowed each leg to vary any where from 50 to 190 volts and both legs varied constantly as the wind blew.

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #72 on: February 15, 2018, 12:30 PM »
@Sparktrician
Thanks for that post. If I understand the HEPD80 correctly, it needs to be placed/connected as close to the main lugs as possible and then it will protect both legs of the system, is that correct?

Correct. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #73 on: February 15, 2018, 01:41 PM »
Those push sockets are garbage. You're soo much better off with the replacements that have screws.

The socket in the photo is the Festool 220 volt UK one. The blue 110 volt USA ones, used in the mod, do have a screw on connections.
Greg Powers
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Offline JeremyH.

  • Posts: 196
Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2018, 02:18 PM »
In all the years I worked as an electrician, I think I replaced less than 10 GFCIs.  My own "WOW Memorial PowerTainer" uses a whole-house surge suppressor from Square D to eliminate surges that often trash GFCIs.

Panel mount surge suppression is good. But to be very safe for something of value you want an end device as well. SurgeX is the best thing I've ever seen (and I've seen patents etc).

Germany... one issue for any audiophile like my self is that we run individual lines for the stereo, and we use specialized sockets that are better. I guess that isn't an "everyone" use? Stereo only.

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2018, 03:45 PM »

Germany... one issue for any audiophile like my self is that we run individual lines for the stereo, and we use specialized sockets that are better. I guess that isn't an "everyone" use? Stereo only.

Hi!

Well, even an audiophile is still "everyone" ;)

BUT, we have a say in Germany: No plaintiff, no judge. ;) ;) ;)

So my best guess would be ;) ;) ;) that if you either do it yourself or find an electrician who will do it for you, your line(s) for the high-end stereo will have no GFCI. ;) ;) ;)


Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2018, 06:10 PM »
In all the years I worked as an electrician, I think I replaced less than 10 GFCIs.  My own "WOW Memorial PowerTainer" uses a whole-house surge suppressor from Square D to eliminate surges that often trash GFCIs.

Panel mount surge suppression is good. But to be very safe for something of value you want an end device as well. SurgeX is the best thing I've ever seen (and I've seen patents etc).

Germany... one issue for any audiophile like my self is that we run individual lines for the stereo, and we use specialized sockets that are better. I guess that isn't an "everyone" use? Stereo only.

Another item few people consider, especially when using a fiber-supplied internet connection (FiOS) is surge protection for the Ethernet connection from the ONT.  I have to give myself a dope-slap in that regard.  Last May we had a thunder/lightning storm here, and one bolt of lightning hit the streetlight in front of my house.  The streetlight exploded and blew glass all over the street and my front yard.  No electrical-only appliances were damaged as I have surge protection on my power feed to the house, but strangely, all my routers and switches were destroyed, as well as my TV.  What they had in common was the Ethernet connection.  Many years ago I took a graduate-level course on grounding, bonding and shielding.  As I evaluated the scenario in light of that training, it occurred to me that although the data connection is via glass fiber, there is a parallel ground line as part of the fiber feed line.  The light pole that got hit is 10 feet from the FiOS distribution box.  I suspect that radiated surge energy traveled down the ground line in the FiOS line that feeds my house.  Lightning energy does some REALLY strange things.  As I dug into it further, I found that the FiOS ground line was not commoned with the house cold water ground.  That has since been rectified with a good run of solid copper directly from the ONT to cold water ground.  Additionally, I have installed an Ethernet surge suppressor in the feed from the ONT to my edge router for better protection. 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 06:25 PM by Sparktrician »
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline JeremyH.

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #77 on: February 15, 2018, 06:48 PM »
Willy, thanks for that description. It's actually something pertinent to a project I am working on [eek]

Offline Trevin

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #78 on: February 27, 2018, 11:01 PM »
Just finished with my Sys Power Box!
Thanks for the ideas guys.
Trevin
Festool: MFT3 (x2), OF1010, OF1400, LR32, Domino DF500, Domino XL DF700, Kapex KS120, TS-75, Carvex 420, CXS, C-18, Vecturo OS 400, DTS 400, Pro 5, Rotex 125, VAC-PMP, VAC-SYS-1, VAC-SYS-2, CT-26 (x2), CT-SYS, SYS Light DUO, SYS-ROCK
Other: Minmax FS41, Sawstop PCS (3HP, 52"), Laguna BX14, Jet 17" Drill Press, Rikon 70-220VSR Lathe, Incra LS Router Station, Laguna P/Flux 3 Dust Collector

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2018, 12:37 AM »
Nice too have a 3D printer
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 10:27 AM by Greg Powers »
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Offline rst

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #80 on: February 28, 2018, 07:26 AM »
Just received mine from Amazon.de, conversion awaits the receptacles arriving.

Offline Scorpion

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120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #81 on: February 28, 2018, 09:20 AM »
Just received mine from Amazon.de, conversion awaits the receptacles arriving.

I ordered one as well.  Won’t see it for a week or so.  Not feeling patient

Edit:  excited for the project [emoji16]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 09:28 AM by Scorpion »

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2018, 09:54 AM »
Well I'll be the 3rd doofus to admit to purchasing a Sys PowerHub from Amazon.de.  [embarassed] [embarassed]

Received the box within 4-5 days of ordering it from Germany.  [big grin]

Ordered the black outlets yesterday from International Configurations, $5.41 each. They're also IP54 instead of IP44, a nice bonus.  [cool]

Offline Scorpion

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #83 on: February 28, 2018, 08:00 PM »
Well I'll be the 3rd doofus to admit to purchasing a Sys PowerHub from Amazon.de.  [embarassed] [embarassed]

Received the box within 4-5 days of ordering it from Germany.  [big grin]

Ordered the black outlets yesterday from International Configurations, $5.41 each. They're also IP54 instead of IP44, a nice bonus.  [cool]

PowerHub is cool, it just is.

What was the part number of the IP54 outlets?  Did you have to buy 10 to get to the minimum order amount?


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Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #84 on: February 28, 2018, 08:32 PM »

PowerHub is cool, it just is.

What was the part number of the IP54 outlets?  Did you have to buy 10 to get to the minimum order amount?


70020-BLK-NS...I decided to purchase 10 of them as I may also use them in an outdoor application. So bottom line, $54.10 + $15.97 for shipping. The receptacles are in stock, I ordered them on Monday and they shipped on Tuesday.  [smile]

I'm going to move the charger for the CXS to the inside of the SYS PowerHub along with a charger for my iPhone. Sweet...can't wait.


Offline Scorpion

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2018, 08:42 PM »

I'm going to move the charger for the CXS to the inside of the SYS PowerHub along with a charger for my iPhone. Sweet...can't wait.

That’s a neat idea.  I too was thinking about incorporating some kind of USB hub but need to see it in person before knowing if it’s a good idea or not.


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Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #86 on: February 28, 2018, 08:50 PM »
That’s a neat idea.  I too was thinking about incorporating some kind of USB hub but need to see it in person before knowing if it’s a good idea or not.

In the summer I work outside all day long. The black iPhone is always an issue because if left in the sunshine it gets so hot that it will shut itself down. Now I'll be able to keep it in the SYS PowerHub out of harms way from tools and sunshine while at the same time maintaining its charge level.

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #87 on: February 28, 2018, 09:17 PM »
70020-BLK-NS...I decided to purchase 10 of them as I may also use them in an outdoor application. So bottom line, $54.10 + $15.97 for shipping. The receptacles are in stock, I ordered them on Monday and they shipped on Tuesday.  [smile]

I'm going to move the charger for the CXS to the inside of the SYS PowerHub along with a charger for my iPhone. Sweet...can't wait.

10 of the black cost almost the same as 5 of the blue ones.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 11:20 PM by Greg Powers »
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Offline Scorpion

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #88 on: February 28, 2018, 10:38 PM »
70020-BLK-NS...I decided to purchase 10 of them as I may also use them in an outdoor application. So bottom line, $54.10 + $15.97 for shipping. The receptacles are in stock, I ordered them on Monday and they shipped on Tuesday.  [smile]

I'm going to move the charger for the CXS to the inside of the SYS PowerHub along with a charger for my iPhone. Sweet...can't wait.

10 the black cost almost the same 5 of the blue ones.

That’s what I was thinking as well.  Difference is you have either (1) spares or (2) enough to order another PowerHub.


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Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #89 on: February 28, 2018, 10:39 PM »
10 of the black cost almost the same as 5 of the blue ones.

Yeah, I decided to purchase 10 of them because I may look at incorporating some of them into an aluminum fence system. It'd be a lot cleaner than installing separate electrical boxes, box covers, GFCI's, mounting posts, driving the posts into the ground...yada, yada, yada.

Thanks for the original inspiration...🙏...I think I'm going to like it.  [smile]

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 176
Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #90 on: March 03, 2018, 11:03 AM »
@Cheese - What are we looking at here? One image shows two black receptacles, side by side; one with a matte finish and one with a glossy finish. Another image shows the front face of the SYS-PH with the matte receptacles installed. According to the embossing/molding on the spring loaded cover that's mounted to the glossy receptacle, it is rated IP54. Are the glossy receptacles that ones that came preinstalled in the SYS-PH and the matte receptacles the 5-15 110V ones that you refitted? If so, aren't both versions rated IP54? If not, what am I missing?     

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V SYS-PowerHub
« Reply #91 on: March 03, 2018, 02:36 PM »
@Cheese - If not, what am I missing?   

You’re not missing anything this is all on me.  [embarassed]

I saw some photos of the Festool receptacle a few years back and they had IP 44 marked on them. When I opened this SYS-PowerHub up it’s also marked IP 44 so I assumed they were using the same receptacles. I just yanked the Euro receptacles and replaced them with the US version and then took the pictures. Nice to know they’re now IP 54.

The US receptacle is on the left with the rubber gasket directly above it, the Euro’s are on the right.

Thanks 🙏 for noting the error.  [smile]
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 02:54 PM by Cheese »

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V SYS-PowerHub
« Reply #92 on: March 03, 2018, 05:58 PM »
Well I received the receptacles yesterday so I decided to install them. Pretty simple install once you figure out how to remove the wires from the existing receptacles.  [eek]

Things to note:
1. A charger for the CXS fits nicely inside along with a battery and the lid closes completely.
2. A USB charger also fits inside to maintain the phone charge.
3. The new receptacles are IP 54 rated versus the originals which are IP 44.
4. The new receptacles include a rubber gasket which is probably the reason for the enhanced rating.

Nice I like the black outlets.  [big grin]
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 11:22 AM by Greg Powers »
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Offline live4ever

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #93 on: March 03, 2018, 06:43 PM »
Bah!  I dislike all of you.  Every last one.  [embarassed]
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V SYS-PowerHub
« Reply #94 on: March 03, 2018, 07:35 PM »
Bah!  I dislike all of you.  Every last one.  [embarassed]

You know one’s in your future... [poke]
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 10:47 PM by Cheese »

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V SYS-PowerHub
« Reply #95 on: March 03, 2018, 10:36 PM »
I presume that you will not be plugging the CT into the power sys as well because that by itself will max out the unit.

Correcto...my first defense will be to plug the CT directly into the outlet, I’ll use the PowerHub as an expensive power cord.  [eek]

I like that because I have several older Festool tools that do not have plug-it cords and I need to use several of them intermittently.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 10:46 PM by Cheese »

Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #96 on: March 04, 2018, 01:30 AM »
I'd like to include a thermal cutout switch:



...in my 120V DIY version (along the lines of what is included in the wiring of an actual SYS-PH). Any thoughts on the suggested specs for such a device? They seem to be rated by temperature and most I'm looking at are "normal-close" (which, I'm assuming, means that in the absence of power the switch opens, thus breaking the circuit). Expected loads are those produced by a TS 75, an OF 1400 and other common 120V powered hand tools. What temp rating should I seek?

Alternatively, what would be the pros/cons of instead using a resettable thermal circuit breaker, something like this:



These types of devices don't seem to be rated by temperature but instead appear to be rated only by voltage and amperage. I assume, then, that I'd simply need a switch rated for 120V and 15A (as opposed to some other spec that I am unclear about)?

Cost for the former is about twice that of the latter which leads me to believe that perhaps the thermal cutout is a more durable device. But, again, I'm just guessing.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 01:43 AM by TinyShop »

Offline Bohdan

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #97 on: March 04, 2018, 01:41 AM »
The thermal overload switch has to be attached to the device that it is protecting. When the device gets hot it switches off and when it cools it switches back on.

The resetable thermal circuit breaker gets hot when the current thru it reaches it's rated value and then it switches off until you reset it.

The second one is the one that you want.

Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #98 on: March 04, 2018, 01:47 AM »
@Bohdan - Huh. Then I wonder why Festool opts for the non-resettable kind?

It would seem that being able to simply reset a breaker (versus having to wait around for something to cool down) would be ideal. Maybe the Euro-regulations require that kind of overload device (and don't allow the resettable kind)? 

Offline Bohdan

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #99 on: March 04, 2018, 04:51 AM »
From the looks of the pics of the power box Festool actually use a resetable one as nothing would have gotten hot.

The non resetable type is used when the tool has to cool down from overheating so that it doesn't let out the magic smoke such as in the TS55. If they had one in the Kapex there wouldn't a regular requirement for new armatures.

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #100 on: March 04, 2018, 11:27 AM »
Just a question to those that have done the mod.

Are you replacing the builtin thermal cutout because at 240v the sys can supply 2500w but at 120v this will drop to 1250w before the overload pops.

An interesting point as this is the label inside the PowerHub.

Look at the coiled vs uncoiled rating.

Offline jdm5

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #101 on: March 04, 2018, 12:13 PM »
Just a question to those that have done the mod.

Are you replacing the builtin thermal cutout because at 240v the sys can supply 2500w but at 120v this will drop to 1250w before the overload pops.

I’d like to understand this better or explore it further.  Not an expert but have some electrical experience.

Watts are the unit of power - P = I x V

My understanding is the power (watts) will remain essentially constant at 240V vs 120V, only the amperage will vary.

I believe a given Festool will draw some number of watts - whether it’s running on 120 or 240V.

If the thermal cutout is based on watts (this part I’m not sure of) won’t it be exactly the same - the wattage draw is constant, just the combination of current and voltage will vary?

If so won’t the thermal cutoff be the same?  Or I’m missing something.

Drank the green Kool-Aid...gave up counting long ago.

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #102 on: March 04, 2018, 01:14 PM »
I’d like to understand this better or explore it further.  Not an expert but have some electrical experience.

Watts are the unit of power - P = I x V

My understanding is the power (watts) will remain essentially constant at 240V vs 120V, only the amperage will vary.
 

In theory, correct.  The reality varies by the power factor of the device.  P = I x E x (power factor)

I believe a given Festool will draw some number of watts - whether it’s running on 120 or 240V.

If the thermal cutout is based on watts (this part I’m not sure of) won’t it be exactly the same - the wattage draw is constant, just the combination of current and voltage will vary?

If so won’t the thermal cutoff be the same?  Or I’m missing something.


A thermal cutoff interrupts a circuit when it reaches a pre-set temperature.  The design criteria will tell you what the critical factors are for the device.  Generally, the specification calls for a cutout at a specific temperature caused by exceeding a specific current draw measured in amps.  Both can vary based on design criteria
.
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Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #103 on: March 04, 2018, 01:25 PM »
From the looks of the pics of the power box Festool actually use a resetable one as nothing would have gotten hot.

The non resetable type is used when the tool has to cool down from overheating so that it doesn't let out the magic smoke such as in the TS55. If they had one in the Kapex there wouldn't a regular requirement for new armatures.

Ah, I see now. I neglected to refer to an image that shows the other side/external-face of the cutout. You're right, it's clearly the resettable kind (it even includes the domed clear plastic "waterproof" screw-on cover that protects the reset button). Good to know. Thanks for setting me straight. I've circled in red the relevant bits in Greg's images for anyone else who may be confused:



« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 01:32 PM by TinyShop »

Offline live4ever

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #104 on: March 04, 2018, 03:01 PM »
Interesting discussion, thanks all.

For those who have done the mod, what can you realistically plug in vs. not?  I’d like to figure out real-world usage before jumping in myself. 
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #105 on: March 04, 2018, 04:59 PM »
So, in putting together a parts list for my 'DIY-sys-ph', I'm encountering difficulty finding what I would refer to as "busbars". I know that I could simply wire everything together with wire nuts and a rat's nest of wire but I like the clean look produced by a bus bar. Moreover, given the knocks and vibration a power distribution tool box would be subjected to, it just makes sense to follow the kinds of electrical connection practices that are employed in the stock SYS-PH.   

Therefore, I figure I will either need one bus bar capable or handling all three functions (hot, neutral, ground) or three, one each for the hot, the neutral and the ground. Whatever it/they would look like, it/they would need to permit an adequate number of connection points for five outlets and an indicator light).

Looking at the guts of the SYS-PH (and also being familiar with the guts of a common 120V AC power strip) it's clear to me that each employs a similar looking busbar (or 'power distribution bar' or 'terminal block bus bar'?), the SYS-PH version of which is circled in red below:



Pretty simple - the hot, neutral and ground wires plug into one end and take-offs emerge when necessary from the relevant bar to attach each outlet to the busbar.

The trouble is that no amount of searching produces anything that looks like it would be appropriate for a 120V 15A AC system.

I can find examples of busbars intended for DC systems - like overkill-quality bus bars for marine use (which look like what I imagine a bus bar should look like):



...and other less-beefy versions for automotive use as well as busbars intended for residential (though low-voltage) uses - like this one - but I can't find anything that looks remotely like the busbar in the SYS-PH nor anything at all that looks like it would work for spreading ~1600W-2200W loads across five NEMA 5-15 outlets and a small 120V LED indicator light. At this point, I'm thinking that I am not using the proper terminology in my searches.

Any ideas?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 05:15 PM by TinyShop »

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #106 on: March 04, 2018, 06:17 PM »
Just a heads up.  This thread is likely going to be be split.  The original part of the thread was about taking a systainer - a plastic box - and then adding off the shelf electrical components.  The second part of the thread is about modifying a Festool electrical product.

Peter

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #107 on: March 04, 2018, 07:18 PM »
Just a heads up.  This thread is likely going to be be split.  The original part of the thread was about taking a systainer - a plastic box - and then adding off the shelf electrical components.  The second part of the thread is about modifying a Festool electrical product.


FWIW Peter, if you split this thread, consider naming one thread SYS-PowerHub and the other one Sys Power Box to differentiate between the actual Festool product and a home grown product.  [smile]

Offline Scorpion

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120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #108 on: March 05, 2018, 09:55 AM »
So, in putting together a parts list for my 'DIY-sys-ph', I'm encountering difficulty finding what I would refer to as "busbars".

Any ideas?

Keep it simple...lever nuts.  Rated voltage - 400, rated current 32A.  They’re all I use now b/c they enable  easy unit serviceability in the future and the wires won’t shake loose.




Edit:  Wago is the brand I use - Wago 222-415 LEVER-NUTS 5 Conductor Compact Connectors 40 PK by Wago https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0195V2LX8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_f3vNAbC1V0VW7
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 10:11 AM by Scorpion »

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #109 on: March 05, 2018, 10:09 AM »
Keep it simple...lever nuts.  Rated voltage - 400, rated current 32A.  They’re all I use now b/c they enable  easy unit serviceability in the future and the wires won’t shake loose.




Good call on the Wago connectors, easier and safer than anything else.  [thumbs up]  Too bad they don't come in a 6-wire model for this application. However, a 5-wire and 3-wire used together would work. [smile]
These can also be mounted on a DIN rail using their mounting carrier.

http://www.heilind.com/products/wago/wago_Lever_nuts_222_series.asp

Just ran across the new version of the older 222 connector, now known as the 221 connector. These should be easier to use than the 222 series because the push down lever is a lot larger. [smile]

http://www.wago.us/media/us/collection/brochures/221_2016.pdf

Which brings up an alternative for this application. I use 6-wire Wago Wall Nuts for outdoor lighting. I use standard 14 ga outdoor wire which is stranded. I just tin the ends and insert it into the Wago connectors. These are available for up to 8-wires and can also be mounted on a DIN rail.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 11:05 AM by Cheese »

Offline JeremyH.

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #110 on: March 05, 2018, 02:09 PM »
Use two.

Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #111 on: March 05, 2018, 07:33 PM »
@Scorpion & @Cheese - Thanks so much for the advice!

Having recently emerged from the rabbit hole of learning from scratch about DIN rails and terminal blocks (oh my!), I now feel a little more equipped to move ahead with my DIY-sys-power-box. Although I now understand that I could assemble three busbars using sets of single-layer, 2-pole terminal blocks connected by jumpers, I'll stick with the even simpler method (that you so thoughtfully suggested) of using three 8-conductor Wall Nuts, the combination of which will provide me with a total of 24 positions (a.k.a "connection points"). Since one position per "Wall Nut" will be occupied by the respective line wire (hot, neutral or ground) this will leave seven positions free and available for connecting the various wires that will attach the outlets, the indicator light and the thermal cutoff. After everything is connected, I'll be left with one free position on each of the hot and neutral Wall Nuts and two open positions on the ground Wall Nut (in each case, just enough for future expansion possibilities).

While I'd have preferred Lever Nuts (easier to remove wires once installed should that ever become necessary) I was put off by the need to install jumper wires between the three sets of 5-conductor and 3-conductor Lever Nuts (as you no doubt understood, I'd need to combine them in this manner in order to achieve enough open positions for the number of wires I'll be working with. So, needlessly complex.

Also, for a more stable build, I will purchase a 12" length of 35mm aluminum DIN rail, two Wago screwless DIN rail end stops and two Wago Fixing Carriers (the latter of which will allow the Wall Nuts to snap onto the DIN rail). I'll fasten an appropriate length of DIN rail to the floor of the systainer (using pop rivets and washers or maybe I'll glue a piece of plywood to the floor and use screws to mount the DIN rail to it).

Either way, I like the idea of using Wall Nuts as impromptu (and inexpensive!) busbars and am very appreciative to have been pointed in their direction.

So, my final parts list (w/sources and pricing) is comprised of the following:
  • One (1) gently-used bright yellow T-Loc II systainer, US$54.95 (picked up on eBay for free using accumulated eBay bucks);
  • Leftover 12/3 indoor Romex (I'll remove the outer sheath and use the remaining strands individually to wire everything to the makeshift busbars);
  • A short length of old 12/3 extension cord (that includes the male plug);
  • Some offcuts which I'll use as nailers (I'll attach them as necessary to the walls and floor of the systainer, likely using PU glue);
  • Some leftover luan or other thin ply (which I'll use to close-in the electronics);
  • Leftover hi-temp crimp terminal ends (for attaching wires to the integral spade connectors on the receptacles, indicator light and thermal cutoff);
  • Five (5) 5-15 IP54 receptacles, US$34.95 (purchased for free using accumulated eBay Bucks);
  • 12" of aluminum DIN rail, US$5.95 (purchased for free using accumulated eBay bucks);
  • One (1) 120V LED indicator light, Red (plus 1 as spare), US$12 (purchased for free using accumulated eBay Bucks);
  • One (1) 120V 15A Thermal Overload Switch, Resettable (plus one spare), US$6.53 (purchased for free using accumulated eBay Bucks);
  • Three (3) Wago 773-168 8-conductor "Wall Nuts", purchased for the whopping sum of US$0.295/each (plus shared shipping) here
  • Two (2) Wago 773-332 Fixing Carriers, purchased for the whopping sum of US$0.318/each (plus shared shipping) here; and
  • Two (2) Wago Screwless End Stops, purchased for US$1.35/each (plus shared shipping) here;

In the end, total build cost will be US$10.23 (basically the cost of the order from Newark). I challenge anyone to do it for less! ;)                       
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 07:43 PM by TinyShop »

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #112 on: March 06, 2018, 05:54 PM »
Moderator Note

This thread started out as a DIY project using a Systainer and then installing electrical items.  Later it turned into a thread about about modifying a Festool Sys-Hub.  The policy of the forum is to not allow posts about modifying Festool products.

There may appear to be gaps in the thread above.  Unfortunately some posts have been removed.

PLEASE do not post about electrically modifying Festool products.

Peter Halle - moderator

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #113 on: March 06, 2018, 07:47 PM »
The forum guidelines allow descretion for the evaluation of posts.  You can certainly review them.  Modifying Festools electrically and then posting here would be an excellent example of what ANY manufacturer would not want on their own forum.

Peter

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #114 on: March 06, 2018, 08:04 PM »
As a follow up to my last post, I specified electrically modifying because this was a thread that was talking about just that.

Peter

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #115 on: March 06, 2018, 08:08 PM »
How about a previous post where a member modified a Festool router to add LED lighting to it, would that also be a no no?

Offline Scorpion

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120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #116 on: March 06, 2018, 08:31 PM »
The rules are clear but clearly not enforced in all situations.  I’m a grown man and fully understand the consequences of modifying tools and equipment.  In this case we’ve discussed replacing outlets with OEM replacement parts and doing so would require nothing more than basic electrical skills similar to what’s necessary to add the second plug to a dust collector (which Festool willingly sells to me) or change out a factory plug on a non-Festool with a plugIt connector (I have 10).

I will concede but I do so in protest.  I’m a rule follower but this one feels like it’s landing on the wrong side of the line.

Edit:  it’s so simple I think Festool should sell a conversion kit BTW.

Edited Again:  I think that when tools are purchased from companies outside of the US and shipped or carried into the US, we should call it “The Green Market”


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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 08:37 PM by Scorpion »

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #117 on: March 21, 2018, 01:39 PM »
@Scorpion & @Cheese - Thanks so much for the advice!

Having recently emerged from the rabbit hole of learning from scratch about DIN rails and terminal blocks (oh my!), .....                       

Did you ever build this project with the DIN rail. If so it would be fun to see a picture or two of the finished product.
Greg Powers
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Offline TinyShop

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #118 on: March 21, 2018, 01:58 PM »
@Scorpion & @Cheese - Thanks so much for the advice!

Having recently emerged from the rabbit hole of learning from scratch about DIN rails and terminal blocks (oh my!), .....                       

Did you ever build this project with the DIN rail. If so it would be fun to see a picture or two of the finished product.

I'm currently traveling but fully intend to post detailed project notes upon my return (July'ish). All of the individual components are at home, just waiting to be assembled. FWIW I do my best planning away from home when I have the time to spend researching and mentally designing. Stay tuned! :)

Offline Nailed IT

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #119 on: March 23, 2018, 09:37 AM »
Great thread here!  I have been looking at options for power distribution at a rolling stack that could include chargers as well.  @Cheese  You mentioned that you were going to put your CSX charger in the empty space of your box.  Do you have a pic of that?  I am curious how much space is left for another charger.  I have a Milwaukee M12 charger I would also add in the box if it would fit.

The conversion looks like a winner!  Great job guys! :D
A systainer of bits and bytes.

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #120 on: March 23, 2018, 01:38 PM »
Great thread here!  I have been looking at options for power distribution at a rolling stack that could include chargers as well.  @Cheese  You mentioned that you were going to put your CSX charger in the empty space of your box.  Do you have a pic of that?  I am curious how much space is left for another charger.  I have a Milwaukee M12 charger I would also add in the box if it would fit.

The conversion looks like a winner!  Great job guys! :D

I think you'll have plenty of room for a M12 charger, they're rather small if I remember correctly.

Here's how the CSX charger fits in. Charger + battery charging with the lid closed. [cool]
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 01:41 PM by Cheese »

Offline Nailed IT

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #121 on: March 23, 2018, 10:27 PM »
Wow Thank you @Cheese for the photo!  This looks like the cat's pajamas!  It certainly solves an issue for me trying to keep mobile stacks in limited space and still being able to have accessibility to function.
A systainer of bits and bytes.

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #122 on: March 23, 2018, 10:57 PM »
Ya it’s pretty sweet...the CXS charger fits in there along with a charger for the iPhone and I’ll probably add a charger for the regular 18 volt Festool tools, so that will maintain the charge for the TSC 55 and the HKC 55. Pretty stoked.

Very nice...can’t understand why Festool is dragging their butt on this one...then again...dragging butt is what Festool does well...and they’ve done it well for years...yawn.
Festool engineering rating = 4.0 to 4.5
Festool marketing rating = 2.0 to 2.5

Offline Nailed IT

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #123 on: March 24, 2018, 08:52 AM »
I ordered one last night from Amazon.de and am looking forward to adding this to my stack.  The organization and convenience factor is big here for my application.  Inconvenient to not be able to just order one ready made but w/e.  Thanks again to all who contributed here! 
A systainer of bits and bytes.

Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #124 on: March 24, 2018, 09:01 AM »
Don't be too surprised if it shows up on your doorstep within 3-4 days.  [big grin]

Offline Scorpion

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120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #125 on: March 24, 2018, 09:41 AM »
Hmm...what about swapping out the lid for an attic lid for the cellphone?  Maybe not any more accessible.  Just a thought.

This is what sparked the idea.


Offline Cheese

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #126 on: March 24, 2018, 09:45 AM »
Hmm...what about swapping out the lid for an attic lid for the cellphone?  Maybe not any more accessible.  Just a thought.

This is what sparked the idea.


You may run into clearance issues with the attic lid and the cover over the power bus. I'd be interested if it works out.

Offline Greg Powers

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #127 on: March 24, 2018, 03:40 PM »
Here it is a Power Hub Systainer with the attic lid. Fits perfectly BUT you loose the designation of SYS-PH on the front of the lid. But Apple charging wall warts do not fit in the attic.
Greg Powers
Size:XL

Offline Scorpion

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #128 on: March 24, 2018, 05:35 PM »
Hmm...what about swapping out the lid for an attic lid for the cellphone?  Maybe not any more accessible.  Just a thought.

This is what sparked the idea.


You may run into clearance issues with the attic lid and the cover over the power bus. I'd be interested if it works out.

Didn’t look to hard at it but you might be right.  When I get back to the project I’ll swap lids and see if they fit. 


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Offline Nailed IT

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Re: 120V Sys Power Box
« Reply #129 on: April 06, 2018, 01:17 PM »
So I received my Sys-PH and made my conversion.  I must say that both the original construction and European electrical system (plug/receptacle) gained my respect.  The original is pretty solid and I wish our American electrical standard was as robust.  But be that as it may, thanks to all the great folks here (especially @Cheese), viola here is my 110v 15a version. 

I opted for a gray receptacle so as to avoid confusion with the original.  [big grin]

A systainer of bits and bytes.