Author Topic: Custom router bit storage insert for SYS4 Systainer  (Read 24124 times)

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Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 72
Re: Custom router bit storage insert for SYS4 Systainer
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2016, 04:47 PM »
Quote
I noticed a few burn marks on the ply edges I assume they are where you are plunging the cutter into the plywood on the cnc.  I would recommend 3D entry to increase cutter life dramatically and avoid burn marks.

Duly noted. I was using a friend / professional woodworker's CNC machine, and he's using really outdated CAM software (MillRight) and I'm not sure if it's true 3-axis, so not sure if it would support 3D plunge. But I'll look into it.

The marks on the edges are actually from the plys. Even though this is true BB/B baltic birch, I've noticed there are the occasional voids or issues with the inside layers. Probably the most evident in the left-most cubbie in the picture -- you'll see a nice knot that never would have been kept on the outer ply (they would have plugged it).
Festools - TS55, OF1400, ETS 150/5, Pro5 LTD, LS 130, Domino DF500, CT36 w/Boom & Dust Deputy, RipDogs, Qwas Dogs, CXS, walls of systainers, custom JumboMFT

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 72
Re: Custom router bit storage insert for SYS4 Systainer
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2016, 04:51 PM »
Do you have .dxf drawings or CNC compatible files for this? I suspect quite a few of us would be willing to throw down a few bucks for access to such info...

I'm going to re-work the design a bit, before posting any files or offering to produce them for fellow FOGers. Here's what I want to tweak:

1) Make it built for a SYS2 instead of a SYS3 (or offer tiers such that people can put it into any size systainer they desire, just buy a new tier)

2) Alter the design to be stacked, with registration, rather than slid onto tall posts. Better ergonomics and easier to get in/out.

3) Use single 25mm baltic birch decks instead of the overly complicated double-12mm stacks with riser parts.

Stay tuned. :)
Festools - TS55, OF1400, ETS 150/5, Pro5 LTD, LS 130, Domino DF500, CT36 w/Boom & Dust Deputy, RipDogs, Qwas Dogs, CXS, walls of systainers, custom JumboMFT

Offline Peter-kenny

  • Posts: 82
Re: Custom router bit storage insert for SYS4 Systainer
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2016, 05:56 AM »
I have a interest in one of them if your making some to sell  [big grin]

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 776
Re: Custom router bit storage insert for SYS4 Systainer
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2016, 12:46 PM »
Do you have .dxf drawings or CNC compatible files for this? I suspect quite a few of us would be willing to throw down a few bucks for access to such info...

I'm going to re-work the design a bit, before posting any files or offering to produce them for fellow FOGers. Here's what I want to tweak:

1) Make it built for a SYS2 instead of a SYS3 (or offer tiers such that people can put it into any size systainer they desire, just buy a new tier)

2) Alter the design to be stacked, with registration, rather than slid onto tall posts. Better ergonomics and easier to get in/out.

3) Use single 25mm baltic birch decks instead of the overly complicated double-12mm stacks with riser parts.

Stay tuned. :)
Agreed on all points.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline krudawg

  • Posts: 8
Re: Custom router bit storage insert for SYS4 Systainer
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2017, 05:41 PM »
How much would you be selling them for?

How much are you willing to pay?  [wink]

Maybe you can paint them red and sell the Idea to Woodpeckers.  I smell a "one time tool" deal.  I'm guessing you could get $239.95 ea if they are red or $29 if painted yellow


I probably spent about 20+ hours on this design. I'm not really planning on selling them en masse unless I see a lot of interest. But I also need to test the current design and I'm sure I'll have some ideas for improvements.

Bring the side grips up higher into the Systainer lid. That way they will be above the side of the Systainer allowing them to be grabbed easier, without a major redesign. I made one of my inserts that way. It actually extends up into the ribs of the Systainer lid.

According to my SYS4 systainer model accurate down to ~1mm, the Festool lids only have about 12mm of additional headroom, which varies quite a bit due to the wild plastic ribbing around the perimeter, plus the large recess for the handle. After I get it machined and test it out, we'll see if I can pull them up any higher. Likely I'll be able to move them a smidge higher, but pulling them more inside is probably going to be the route I'll eventually take.

omg... how is anyone going to have a collection that huge to fill that many holes! so far i only have two round bits, and one trim bits.. in their original packaging, thrown around inside the systainer with its router mate.

Once you get a router table, things change. I built my own Incra table and it's the most versatile tool in my shop, and probably the most accurate to boot. Sure, you'll probably never be able to fill up this entire insert, but in reality, you won't be able to fill all of these slots anyway, since many bits have large profiles that will take up multiple slots.

So...if the center handle didn't go all the way through the section, but stopped 1/8" below the top surface of the top tier, then you could mount a center handle on the top section and use that to remove the top tier. This same operation could be implemented on the middle tier. Only 1 item needs to be modified, the long center handle/post. Only 2 items need to be designed, the new center handle for the top tier and for the middle tier. The outside handles would be used to remove the entire structure, while the center handles would remove each tier/layer. The nesting function would be the same as it is now. Just a thought [popcorn]

I like your general idea. Having each tier be stackable such that people could use SYS2 through SYS5 would increase the versatility. This might be in store for a future design improvement.

This is beautiful but hardly practical. Pull out drawer is an ergonomic way to organize bits. SYS2 with a simple one layer, easy to see and reach layout for on site use. With the proposed setup every time you need a bit you have to pull out and disassemble the stack.

I agree, it's not a perfect design. Ideally, you would have one extremely large drawer with enough headroom to hold even your longest bits--but that's going to be a very big drawer. I happened to have a couple spare systainers and was hunting for an excuse to fill them, plus I recently acquired a bit lot of router bits. However, I will note that you're free to put your most frequently used bits on the top shelf, and even your most commonly used longer bits could be tucked in the second shelf, but available through the pass-through so that you wouldn't have to remove any tiers. Only your seldom used bits could be stored on the deeper tiers. As an owner of a Freud glass panel router bit set, I know a thing or two about "seldom used bits." I think I'm probably speaking for others with big router bit collections, too.

I was hoping that there is maybe a dxf or svg file around that follows the contours a bit.  I didn't just want to model a rectangle.  Any extra space around the sides just seems like a chance for the insert to rattle around.

There is--do a search for "systainer bottom insert" and you'll find a FOG'er who modeled both the floor and the lid. I used his work to double-check my own here. We'll see if it all fits later this week, when I go to assemble it.


How much would you be selling them for?

How much are you willing to pay?  [wink]

I probably spent about 20+ hours on this design. I'm not really planning on selling them en masse unless I see a lot of interest. But I also need to test the current design and I'm sure I'll have some ideas for improvements.

Bring the side grips up higher into the Systainer lid. That way they will be above the side of the Systainer allowing them to be grabbed easier, without a major redesign. I made one of my inserts that way. It actually extends up into the ribs of the Systainer lid.

According to my SYS4 systainer model accurate down to ~1mm, the Festool lids only have about 12mm of additional headroom, which varies quite a bit due to the wild plastic ribbing around the perimeter, plus the large recess for the handle. After I get it machined and test it out, we'll see if I can pull them up any higher. Likely I'll be able to move them a smidge higher, but pulling them more inside is probably going to be the route I'll eventually take.

omg... how is anyone going to have a collection that huge to fill that many holes! so far i only have two round bits, and one trim bits.. in their original packaging, thrown around inside the systainer with its router mate.

Once you get a router table, things change. I built my own Incra table and it's the most versatile tool in my shop, and probably the most accurate to boot. Sure, you'll probably never be able to fill up this entire insert, but in reality, you won't be able to fill all of these slots anyway, since many bits have large profiles that will take up multiple slots.

So...if the center handle didn't go all the way through the section, but stopped 1/8" below the top surface of the top tier, then you could mount a center handle on the top section and use that to remove the top tier. This same operation could be implemented on the middle tier. Only 1 item needs to be modified, the long center handle/post. Only 2 items need to be designed, the new center handle for the top tier and for the middle tier. The outside handles would be used to remove the entire structure, while the center handles would remove each tier/layer. The nesting function would be the same as it is now. Just a thought [popcorn]

I like your general idea. Having each tier be stackable such that people could use SYS2 through SYS5 would increase the versatility. This might be in store for a future design improvement.

This is beautiful but hardly practical. Pull out drawer is an ergonomic way to organize bits. SYS2 with a simple one layer, easy to see and reach layout for on site use. With the proposed setup every time you need a bit you have to pull out and disassemble the stack.

I agree, it's not a perfect design. Ideally, you would have one extremely large drawer with enough headroom to hold even your longest bits--but that's going to be a very big drawer. I happened to have a couple spare systainers and was hunting for an excuse to fill them, plus I recently acquired a bit lot of router bits. However, I will note that you're free to put your most frequently used bits on the top shelf, and even your most commonly used longer bits could be tucked in the second shelf, but available through the pass-through so that you wouldn't have to remove any tiers. Only your seldom used bits could be stored on the deeper tiers. As an owner of a Freud glass panel router bit set, I know a thing or two about "seldom used bits." I think I'm probably speaking for others with big router bit collections, too.

I was hoping that there is maybe a dxf or svg file around that follows the contours a bit.  I didn't just want to model a rectangle.  Any extra space around the sides just seems like a chance for the insert to rattle around.

There is--do a search for "systainer bottom insert" and you'll find a FOG'er who modeled both the floor and the lid. I used his work to double-check my own here. We'll see if it all fits later this week, when I go to assemble it.
Ted
Mft/3, DF 500, Hammer K3 Winner,
Former Marine E-4

Offline fritter63

  • Posts: 1338
Re: Custom router bit storage insert for SYS4 Systainer
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2017, 10:03 PM »
VERY nice design Ryan! Would you be willing to sell the CAD plans for it? (I have my own CNC machine)

Another idea I had along these lines was an insert that would fit into the OF 1400 Systainer. There is a bunch of wasted space
in there on a corner, and I think an inverted cone shape of some sort would fit in nice and hold a collection of router bits. You'd need some sort of swing out leg so it would stand on it's own when removed from the Systainer, but that would be  great way to recapture dead space.

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 72
Re: Custom router bit storage insert for SYS4 Systainer
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2017, 11:56 PM »
Just wanted to let you all know I've spent some time refining the design of the inserts and will be doing a one-time production run. I was able to make most of the changes outlined in this thread.

Check this out if you're interested: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/ryan's-sys-stacker-router-bit-storage-insert-for-t-loc-systainers/
Festools - TS55, OF1400, ETS 150/5, Pro5 LTD, LS 130, Domino DF500, CT36 w/Boom & Dust Deputy, RipDogs, Qwas Dogs, CXS, walls of systainers, custom JumboMFT