Author Topic: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing  (Read 12805 times)

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Offline WillAdams

  • Posts: 29
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2018, 11:47 AM »
The odd thing is, most of the tools which I would want in this portable tool storage / work area setup would be hand tools, so integration with the vacuum isn't desirable, and I hope to be using the vacuum sufficiently w/ a CNC that the UDD will pay off.

Okay, specifics then. Does this seem reasonable for getting up / down basement steps and doing some light hand tool work?

  • Festool 498660 SysRoll Systainer and Storage Dolly
  • Festool 500076 SYS-MFT Tabletop Systainer
  • Festool 200119 SYS 4 Sortainer

Would that get to a reasonable work height for hand tool work? (I'm thinking not) --- is the SysRoll suited for rolling back up against the railing of a deck, locking the wheels, clamping the Tabletop Systainer to the railing and then doing some (moderate) hand tool work on it?

What additional Systainer / Sortainer would be the best complement to the above to get it to a reasonable working height without making it too heavy to move up / down steps?

Would I find it annoying to remove the Tabletop Systainer to get at tools in an ordinary Systainer in-between it and the Sortainer?

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2524
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2018, 12:54 PM »

Start with the dimensions in height as approximations...


The Sys1 is 4"
The Sys2 is 6.2"
The Sys3 is 8.25"
The Sys4 is 12.4"

If you want a comfortable height for sawing or planing, I think you should get to around 30" at a minimum   If you want to work on your knees, it can be much shorter.  A MFT table is about 35". 

The SysRoll does not have locking casters and I don't think it would be that stable to try to saw, route or plane something on it.  I have looked at them many times but for my use around the house, I didn't find them that compelling when I look at stability, portability and still having to deal with removing the stack to get to the middle.  Others here that own them can speak to their utility with that.  If you are going to a job site, I think the utility is better.

If all you are doing is going up and down basement steps for a project, consider just two stacks of Systainers that you can lock together and carry in each hand to get you to a better and more stable 'working' height without the SysRoll.

Sortainers CAN be heavy if they get filled with tools/parts/bolts/etc.  I have 8 of the Sortainers and like them a lot, but they are stationary. 

I'd start with they typical types of power tools and hand tools you will use on projects away from the workshop - drill, maybe sander or jigsaw and their Systainer height if you happen to have them and fill in from there. 

Next figure out if you want the Systainer for the power tools to go up and down the stairs.  I personally leave them in the shop when doing home projects and just take the tools in a Sys Toolbox with other things.

Which leads to my favorite hand carry items for around the house or projects at family/friends homes are the Sys Storage and Sys Toolbox. 

My shop is in the basement but I have a Sys Storage on the first floor in a closet on a shelf for typical tools around the house - pliers, adjustable wrenches, screwdrivers  hammer, prybar, flashlight, nailset, assorted screws, wire nuts, tester, etc.   The Sys Storage is great for my hand-tools and assorted collection of fasteners.  And the cantilevered top gives you easy access. 

The Sys Toolbox is nice for grabbing other tools from my workshop - scrapers, caulk guns, a hand plane, torch or tubing tools for plumbing, a CXS drill, drill bits, as well as project hardware or supplies. 

There was a guy on FOG that made a wooden 'top' for the Sys Toolbox to essentially allow a worksurface above the handles.  I can't find the PDF but it was an interesting way to convert the box with the elevated handle into a bench of sorts.  But it was a cool idea and enabled a 'Sys-MFT' like top for work holding above the base.

Hope this is of help - Share your stack when you get it figured out!

Online Peter_C

  • Posts: 719
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2018, 01:25 PM »
Okay, specifics then. Does this seem reasonable for getting up / down basement steps and doing some light hand tool work?

  • Festool 498660 SysRoll Systainer and Storage Dolly
  • Festool 500076 SYS-MFT Tabletop Systainer
  • Festool 200119 SYS 4 Sortainer
~
Would I find it annoying to remove the Tabletop Systainer to get at tools in an ordinary Systainer in-between it and the Sortainer?
Why not just get an ultra portable work bench? If the MFT is too much an X-table might fit the situation. I use the heck out of mine. It even gets used for gearing up for scuba with double tanks.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-X-Horse-2-5-ft-Workbench-229694/301046021

There are a lot of options that cost less than a Sys Roll, plus some type of work top, and at the same time will be more functional.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-1-8-ft-x-3-ft-Portable-Jobsite-Workbench-225047/205887786
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Professional-Woodworker-Foldable-Workbench-51834/204739343
https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-33-in-Folding-Portable-Workbench-DWST11556/301867227
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Keter-21-65-in-x-33-46-in-x-29-7-in-Folding-Work-Table-197283/203118732
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Worx-Pegasus-Multi-Function-Work-Table-and-Sawhorse-with-Quick-Clamps-and-Holding-Pegs-WX051/302287890
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Kreg-2-6-ft-Portable-Workbench-KWS1000/302433629

Offline WillAdams

  • Posts: 29
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2018, 06:02 PM »
I already use a folding workbench like to: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Professional-Woodworker-Foldable-Workbench-51834/204739343

My idea behind this is that I'd have one thing to grab, it'd roll up the stairs easily, in a single trip, I'd get some working done, then put it away --- currently, the folding workbench is one trip, a toolbox is another, and any clamps or other odds-and-ends (or other toolboxes) are separate trips --- some projects it feels as if I spend more time hauling stuff up/down than actually working.

The overbox/worktop is interesting and I may look into that as a further improvement.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 207
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2018, 06:49 PM »
The systainers were a pleasant surprise when I discovered Festool.  My dream is for a global ISO standard for a system of small containers/totes.  So far the world hasn't standardized a container smaller than a 20 foot conex.

As it is, what Festool has is the closest thing to getting it right. I own a lot of power tools, but the problem is of course with other brands you either don't get any case (really bad), or as is often the case they make a different case for every tool, everyone a different size and shape.  I'm sure many folks have the random pile of Milwaukee tool blow molded cases piled in the corner always wanting to fall over.  And then the random pile of all the tools that never had a case, or the really sad cardboard box, maybe a bunch of the insanely pointless canvases bag (seriously, why not just cut to the chase and have them connect as a filter bag in a shop vac so they are useful).  I have most my life stored in rubber totes because of moving around. It's nice, just move stuff around with hand trucks, but they are not a good answer.  Lots of various tools, materials, etc get stored in Bins in a shelf system, not a great solution either.  Having everything in something like the festool systainers is the much better solution.  Biggest issue with converting tools over to them would be the cases they came with, can't throw them out as now that sucks if you go to sell them, yet they take up space and don't stack nice.

I would agree that they aren't going to be the fastest answer, but when you need to keep everything stored away, because either you go to a jobsite, or like me, you move around a lot, you have small shop space, you have a house under construction for years, etc.  Having a way to put everything away nicely that stacks nicely, or can have nice standardized cabinetry built for it is great.  Moving is so much easier when you keep all your belongings in totes/containers and just point to movers and they move it.  Also as people mentioned being able to put the tools away from dust and everything else is nice.  Means tearing tools down for maintenance cleaning less often.  Not having accessories scattered around with no home. Having a place for accessories in the case with the tool.  The key to managing small spaces is storage. A Systainer may seam big or wasteful, but it's actually a very efficient way to do it.  Shelves with scattered and tangled tools take up more room,  random sized cases package less efficiently than standard module based cases. People don't need bigger houses or garages, they need better planned storage.

Such cases also cause manufactures to think thru the design a little bit.  Try harder to fit into the same size case as the other stuff.   Some stuff will never happen,  I love that my Bosch table saw basically packs up into a cube. If they made a form fit case it dropped into, even better.   I would love to see a 12" compound miter saw that could do the same.

I have too many tools that lay around with no good way to store them.  I grew up with tools jammed under the workbench getting covered in everything in the garage, I don't want that again.

They could certainly make a better container, but even a less ideal container that is standardized is better than chaos.

Pretty sure if someone with a vacuum former started making plastic inserts for systainers for Milwaukee, Bosch, Dewalt tools they would have no problem selling them to folks.

Offline Albertdebruijn

  • Posts: 6
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2018, 09:54 PM »
I am a really “messy” worker. At the end of a project, I find tools (and their parts) everywhere with little or no horizontal surface free anymore.  Since buying into the Festool ecosystem, a have found that having a home (I.e. a systainer) for tools and accessories helps immensely with keeping my (very small) shop relatively efficient.
To me, a systainer is about “everything has a place”, drillbits and drills, sanders and sanding disks, etc.
I rarely travel with my tools, but will occasionally go work in the yard because my shop is small and cramped, but this systainer concept helps me stay organized).

Offline jsabados

  • Posts: 34
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2018, 10:24 PM »
Thank you Gregor for the laugh!  It was hilarious seeing that stack!

I, too, still have doubts if I should keep my systainers.  I have a two car garage shop that is fairly crowded and I would benefit from combining tools into bigger boxes/drawers.  I guess the deciding factor is that if I had to sell any of my Festool stuff, I would be able to get a bit more for them with the systainers. 

Online Peter_C

  • Posts: 719
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2018, 11:03 PM »
I am a really “messy” worker. At the end of a project, I find tools (and their parts) everywhere with little or no horizontal surface free anymore.  Since buying into the Festool ecosystem, a have found that having a home (I.e. a systainer) for tools and accessories helps immensely with keeping my (very small) shop relatively efficient.
To me, a systainer is about “everything has a place”, drillbits and drills, sanders and sanding disks, etc.
I rarely travel with my tools, but will occasionally go work in the yard because my shop is small and cramped, but this systainer concept helps me stay organized).
All tools need a place to go. They need to go back every time you are done. Once a system is in place you will always be able to find the tools you need.

If you work out of the same shop a regular tool box can be very beneficial. They hold a lot of tools! Are lockable for security, and will help keep all your hand tools organized. After all wrenches, screwdrivers, sockets, etc, need a home too.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1136
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2018, 12:14 PM »
I guess the deciding factor is that if I had to sell any of my Festool stuff, I would be able to get a bit more for them with the systainers. 
Thats pretty much the only reason I keep mine. They waste a lot of space in my shop and while they do keep the tools and most accessories organized its not like I couldnt do that more efficiently with custom built drawers/cabinets/wall hanging/etc. I still think the major benefit to Systainers is only for those working on job sites and who have to have everything be portable.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 776
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2018, 12:39 PM »
Hi!

Obviously I can only speak for myself, so I try to explain my view:

While I do have a "workshop" in the basement, most of what I do is "DIY"/home improvement all around and in the house.

So I need to bring many of my tools, accessories and consumables to where I work. And I actually love working on my patio from late February/early March to early November. Meaning that I "set up shop" right there when I want to make something.

Additionally I also have tools that are rarely taken/moved out of the "workshop". And if my "workshop" had a name it would be "Vise Room". Honestly, that's what it is. It's the place my vise is located and when I need it, I go downstairs to saw/file/sand/grind ...

When I started, I bought quite a bit of Bosch Professional tools in L-Boxxes but I never really got into it and my personal feeling is that Bosch is still struggling to make this system really work for them - they are overall not as committed to the L-Boxx as Festool is to the Systainer. It's definitely is a lot better than a couple of years ago, but my personal opinion is that Festool still comes out ahead with the Systainer, and especially in regards to inserts and accessory/consumable storage. But then again, that's just me.

What I really love about storing tools in Systainer is that I never have to worry if I have "everything". I know their contents. When I grab my PDC I know everything I need for basic/essential use is right there. If it's more "complicated", I simply add the Systainer with the Installer's Kit. When I grab my impact wrench Systainer, I know I have everything. ... Gear up, gear down. It's a matter of seconds.

I wouldn't want to miss these by now, and don't get my "awe'ing" and "oh'ing" about my SYS-Cart, the SYS-PH and CTL-SYS ... Fits my needs and my way of working perfectly.

Another aspect is a tidy and safe work environment and clean tools. I hate nothing more than dirty tools. I know there are environments where this isn't top priority or quite simply not required/ possible. But I don't want to drill a hole and then soil the wallpaper when putting in a wall plug, because dirt from another project transferred from my drill's handle to my hands. I like to work as clean as possible whenever possible. And I try not to cross contaminate by having tools I don't need lying out in the open when working with metal (or whatever) in the "Vise room" ;)

So I do not store many tools/accessories/consumables in open spaces anyway.

I'm not on the clock, so if it takes me 10 seconds more to open a Systainer and take a tool out and another 10 seconds (make that 30 if I need to put a plug-it back  [tongue] ) to put it back it simply doesn't matter at all to me.

Honestly, and while I probably shouldn't, I take a little bit of pride in having clean, ready to use tools/accessories/consumables and working as clean as possible.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline WillAdams

  • Posts: 29
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2018, 04:56 PM »
I use my CTL Midi as "wheeled base" since I need it whenever I work anyway. If you store it near the other tools you can just snap everything you need on there and wheel that out. Works for me at least.

It would work for me as well, save that the top of my vacuum is taken up by the Oneida Ultimate Dust Deputy --- I really wish that the top were designed so as to allow one to store accessories and additional Systainers on top of the latter.

FWIW, I decided to try out a less expensive system as a trial (Husky 22" Connect Rolling System Tool Box and Husky 1.8 ft. x 3 ft. Portable Jobsite Workbench) and it's off to a slow start --- having trouble sorting out which tool goes into which box, though it did let me clear out my joiner's chest --- I'm hoping for a weekend of clear cool weather where I can lay all my tools out on the back deck and sort through things systematically and just do it. I also need to work up a way to connect the workbench to the rolling system when collapsed and possibly when working.

Tempted by the idea of just making a vertical wall-hanging tool cabinet à la Studley and putting all of my nicer tools in it in the living room.

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 178
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2018, 11:23 PM »
You guys were talking about portable work surfaces. Have you seen this:   http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-announcements/mobile-workshop-video!/msg556222/#msg556222

I hope I did this correctly.

Offline WillAdams

  • Posts: 29
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2018, 08:47 AM »
Yes, saw that, and it's what's making me want to connect the portable workbench to the rolling system. Hopefully I can work something up this weekend.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 368
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2018, 08:11 AM »
The systainers were a pleasant surprise when I discovered Festool.  My dream is for a global ISO standard for a system of small containers/totes.  So far the world hasn't standardized a container smaller than a 20 foot conex.

As it is, what Festool has is the closest thing to getting it right. I own a lot of power tools, but the problem is of course with other brands you either don't get any case (really bad), or as is often the case they make a different case for every tool, everyone a different size and shape.  I'm sure many folks have the random pile of Milwaukee tool blow molded cases piled in the corner always wanting to fall over.  And then the random pile of all the tools that never had a case, or the really sad cardboard box, maybe a bunch of the insanely pointless canvases bag (seriously, why not just cut to the chase and have them connect as a filter bag in a shop vac so they are useful).  I have most my life stored in rubber totes because of moving around. It's nice, just move stuff around with hand trucks, but they are not a good answer.  Lots of various tools, materials, etc get stored in Bins in a shelf system, not a great solution either.  Having everything in something like the festool systainers is the much better solution.  Biggest issue with converting tools over to them would be the cases they came with, can't throw them out as now that sucks if you go to sell them, yet they take up space and don't stack nice.

I would agree that they aren't going to be the fastest answer, but when you need to keep everything stored away, because either you go to a jobsite, or like me, you move around a lot, you have small shop space, you have a house under construction for years, etc.  Having a way to put everything away nicely that stacks nicely, or can have nice standardized cabinetry built for it is great.  Moving is so much easier when you keep all your belongings in totes/containers and just point to movers and they move it.  Also as people mentioned being able to put the tools away from dust and everything else is nice.  Means tearing tools down for maintenance cleaning less often.  Not having accessories scattered around with no home. Having a place for accessories in the case with the tool.  The key to managing small spaces is storage. A Systainer may seam big or wasteful, but it's actually a very efficient way to do it.  Shelves with scattered and tangled tools take up more room,  random sized cases package less efficiently than standard module based cases. People don't need bigger houses or garages, they need better planned storage.

Such cases also cause manufactures to think thru the design a little bit.  Try harder to fit into the same size case as the other stuff.   Some stuff will never happen,  I love that my Bosch table saw basically packs up into a cube. If they made a form fit case it dropped into, even better.   I would love to see a 12" compound miter saw that could do the same.

I have too many tools that lay around with no good way to store them.  I grew up with tools jammed under the workbench getting covered in everything in the garage, I don't want that again.

They could certainly make a better container, but even a less ideal container that is standardized is better than chaos.

Pretty sure if someone with a vacuum former started making plastic inserts for systainers for Milwaukee, Bosch, Dewalt tools they would have no problem selling them to folks.

That exactly. Rather a few stacks of Systainers than the "random form" cases that too many others have. I am now looking to buy a hammer drill, but only Hitachi sells one in Systainer..
My heatgun (Metabo) came without case. If you just let it linger around and let it get full of dust... it will stink when you use it. So I bought a Metabo Systainer for it.

Some inserts are already available. Like for Fein Multimaster. But they sometimes sell it already in Systainer.

The older systainers take forever to connect to each other though. Especially in cold weather with cold fingers..

Offline krudawg

  • Posts: 21
Re: Help me understand this whole systainer/sysport thing
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2018, 06:49 PM »
I just don’t get why one would store their tools in the systainers unless you were one that worked on a jobsite or shop to job site, am I missing something?

I have about 15 of these things and I have never used the systainers. I have been using festool since around 2003 and was trained in traditional furniture making and also did quite a bit of commercial and residential cabinetmaking I mostly always worked in my shop so I had all the tools out and ready to go.
I definitely think that less used tools could stay in the systainer but the saw,routers, sanders and drills i like on a custom built shelf ready to go.

So now fast forward 15 yrs (now in software engineering - go figure) and I am rebuilding my garage shop and as much as I like the idea of the whole diy sysport thing I just can’t wrap my head around it for a few reasons...

1. It’s plasticy, (interestingly enough I work in the Plastic Injection Molding industry - go figure again...) I get it, it’s easy all you have to do is make a platform put some slides on it... but a wood drawer feels so much better...
2. You have to pull out the systainer then open the lid, wood drawer u just open it
3. Most tools are poorly organized with the supplied - wait for it....plastic insert. Ya u can build custom inserts but u can do that in a wood drawer and it’s simpler.
4. I am sure I could complain more but I won’t

Not trying to be negative but I just don’t get it and I want to see If I am missing an opportunity here before I start building out the shop.
Hey Ripit, when my first Festool tool arrived on my doorstep I thought why are these tools delivered in these funky plastic boxes.  I took the tool out of the systainer and put the tool on the shelf with all my power tools (now; mostly Festool).  When I finally got around to actually using the tool for the fist time I noticed the tool was full of dust and cobwebs.  Then the light went off; Wow, maybe those systainers would keep my tools clean and organized.  Now I have 15 systainers stacked on shelves - some systainers are used to store NON-FESTOOL tools.  I love those darn things
Ted
Mft/3, DF 500, Hammer K3 Winner,
Former Marine E-4