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Author Topic: Systainers in the cold  (Read 3885 times)

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Offline Billy stray

  • Posts: 306
Systainers in the cold
« on: December 13, 2017, 11:06 AM »
Boy that packout system just looks better all the time....... [sad]
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Billy

Offline justaguy

  • Posts: 182
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2017, 11:16 AM »
Bummer..

Note to self - don't knock over systainers on cold days
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Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2017, 12:08 PM »
kinda ironic that systainer is / was the cooltainer version .

I think for construction sites, especially outside ones, that systainers ( and lboxxes) are a bit light in the pants.  They seem more geared for shop use and finesse trades like cabinet fitters, finish carpenters, ect... that practice in cleaner / warmer conditions.

For the rough an tumble segment, the Dewalt and Milwaukee storage systems are a better choice.  Especially if you're looking for protection from falls, lumber crashing into them ,and vehicles bumping them.  They aren't as elegant, but they are much tougher.
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Offline Billy stray

  • Posts: 306
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2017, 07:23 PM »
I agree, i am an installer/ finish carpenter
That happened from taking it out of my cold truck in a stack and maybe grabbing it a bit to "ruggedly" my senco 1010 lives in there

It is ironic that it was the cooltaner
Didnt catch that
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Billy

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 409
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2017, 07:30 PM »
Quote from: Billy stray on December 13, 2017, 07:23 PM
I agree, i am an installer/ finish carpenter
That happened from taking it out of my cold truck in a stack and maybe grabbing it a bit to "ruggedly" my senco 1010 lives in there

It is ironic that it was the cooltaner
Didnt catch that

I’m shocked Festool hasn’t developed a line of contractor grade systainers.  They’re a company that loves to squeeze every penny they can from you on accessories.
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Offline The.Handyman

  • Posts: 88
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2017, 07:51 PM »
I have systainers, Tstak, and Milwaukee PACKOUT. PACKOUT is way bigger and heavier. It's a pain to move around but it is nearly indestructible.
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Offline promark747

  • Posts: 459
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2017, 08:09 PM »
Quote from: antss on December 13, 2017, 12:08 PM
kinda ironic that systainer is / was the cooltainer version .

I think for construction sites, especially outside ones, that systainers ( and lboxxes) are a bit light in the pants.  They seem more geared for shop use and finesse trades like cabinet fitters, finish carpenters, ect... that practice in cleaner / warmer conditions.

For the rough an tumble segment, the Dewalt and Milwaukee storage systems are a better choice.  Especially if you're looking for protection from falls, lumber crashing into them ,and vehicles bumping them.  They aren't as elegant, but they are much tougher.

Yes, I'd also add Ridgid to the list.  Almost bomb proof.
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Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 09:54 PM »
Quote from: The.Handyman on December 13, 2017, 07:51 PM
I have systainers, Tstak, and Milwaukee PACKOUT. PACKOUT is way bigger and heavier. It's a pain to move around but it is nearly indestructible.

It's always a trade off.  I could whip up some cases made out of carbon fiber that would be light and darn tough.  They'd cost more than the festools you stored in them though.
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Offline Master Carpenter

  • Posts: 90
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2017, 12:26 AM »
Quote from: Steven Owen on December 13, 2017, 07:30 PM
I’m shocked Festool hasn’t developed a line of contractor grade systainers.  They’re a company that loves to squeeze every penny they can from you on accessories.

I'm not. Festool isn't really after the contractor market.
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4945
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2017, 01:37 AM »
Quote from: Steven Owen on December 13, 2017, 07:30 PM
I’m shocked Festool hasn’t developed a line of contractor grade systainers.  They’re a company that loves to squeeze every penny they can from you on accessories.

By contractor grade, I’m assuming you feel the Systainers need to be stronger.  If that’s the case, and assuming that the same manufacturing process is used, there are only 3 ways to increase their strength. Changing wall thickness, changing the internal support structure or changing the material.

All involve major modifications to the tooling which = $$$$$$$. Injection molds are expensive...as in really, really expensive.

As antss alluded to, changing the material to carbon fibre increases the strength, however it also changes the process which adds additional costs to the manufacturing equation in this ISO world we live in.

From a manufacturing/engineering perspective, it’s important to have a robust roadmap of your destination before you embark on your journey. Because any changes along the way become extremely expensive. I think Tanos has done a great job in this respect.

So...all things considered, I’m quite happy with the Tanos solution. It may not be perfect, however it’s better than the old school Milwaukee metal tool box approach and is certainly 10x better than the new school Milwaukee blow-molding approach.

Blow-molding = a waste of material & a waste of space. 👎👎👎


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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5697
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2017, 03:50 AM »
When I got my first T-Loc systainer and inspected it, I noticed immediately the lid had a lot more flex in it than the classic systainer. The broken lid shown here is exactly the kind of failure I expected to happen, and one of the main reasons I stayed with my classic systainers.

Kinda logical, isn't it, when you go from a two point closure to a single point closure, and on top of that instruct your engineers to make the lid as thin as you can make within the limit of carying a single powertool.

The classical systainers were built so much stronger in every aspect, you can pack them to the brim with heavy tools, stand on them, drop them (within reason), and they'll survive. The T-Locs won't.

There is no denying, Festool once advertised themselves as making the MOST ROBUST tools on the market, that philosophy is completely out of the door the last years.
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Offline mackenzie

  • Posts: 178
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2017, 04:26 AM »
Is the plastic used in the Makita classic style systainers (I'm talking Makitas own version systainer) different from the T-Loc?  Or what about Metabo's own version of systainer with the metal latch?  I have seen that advertised as "Extremely robust, unbreakable boxes"  Are there any other systainer iterations not made by Tanos?

If the above are made from different plastics, I wonder how they would fair in cold weather?

@Billy stray, if the Metabo is really "Extremely robust, unbreakable boxes" and if you like the systainer format and if you can source them, perhaps this an option for you, it would still facilitate stacking and locking with existing Classics and T-Locs.  There is a thread on the FOG about them.

You must be hardy to work in weather that cold.
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Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 483
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2017, 07:16 AM »
I am a contractor.  I use my FT tools almost daily.  Many here have stated emphatically that they do not “baby” their FT tools.  I don’t necessarily baby mine, but I do handle them with a greater measure of care than my other tools.  I have some sortainers that are classic design, but the rest are T-loc. There is definitely a difference in durability between the two.

I think the best option would be to make the containers from a softer plastic. Carbon fiber would be awesome, but Cha-Ching.

Having worked in weather down to -10F, I feel your pain in all ways...
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Dance with who brung ya...

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 432
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2017, 07:43 AM »
"From a manufacturing/engineering perspective, it’s important to have a robust roadmap of your destination before you embark on your journey. Because any changes along the way become extremely expensive. I think Tanos has done a great job in this respect."

Unfortunately for end users, part of the roadmap involved making the new Systainers using less material. That has doubtless saved Tanos money on material costs every year since the switch, but it has resulted in less robust products.
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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3535
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2017, 09:59 AM »
Quote from: mackenzie on December 14, 2017, 04:26 AM
Is the plastic used in the Makita classic style systainers (I'm talking Makitas own version systainer) different from the T-Loc?  Or what about Metabo's own version of systainer with the metal latch?  I have seen that advertised as "Extremely robust, unbreakable boxes"  Are there any other systainer iterations not made by Tanos?

If the above are made from different plastics, I wonder how they would fair in cold weather?

@Billy stray, if the Metabo is really "Extremely robust, unbreakable boxes" and if you like the systainer format and if you can source them, perhaps this an option for you, it would still facilitate stacking and locking with existing Classics and T-Locs.  There is a thread on the FOG about them.

You must be hardy to work in weather that cold.

The Makita "systainers" are made of the same ABS plastic as the regular Tanos/Festool Systainers. The Makita are a little heavier and seem to be stronger than the Classic Systainers. The Makita are compatible with Systainers. The Makita cases are on sale at CPO. Sys 4 equivalent is $43. The Makita latches work more smoothly than the classic Tanos/Festool latches. I sometimes need a pry bar to open a classic latch. The only problem (very minor) with the Makita latches is that the distance from the side pins and the holes is a little long so when you lift a stack of connected Makita cases there is a little "stretch" before the bottom box follows along (like the play in train car connections).

The best plastic for low temperatures is low density polyethylene (think Rubbermaid Brute trash cans). I've been using Plano tool boxes made of single wall LDPE since the early '80s and not single crack yet. But I'm the only one who moves them and I am more careful in freezing temps.

My all time favorite tool case is a Plano that has a generous top compartment above three drawers. It generally weights over 50 pounds loaded yet the single top handle remains strong and pliable enough to carry the whole load.
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Offline Billy stray

  • Posts: 306
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2017, 08:49 PM »

You must be hardy to work in weather that cold.
[/quote]

Lol just carrying it from the unheated rear of my cube van to the very nicely heated interior
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 09:01 PM by Billy stray »
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Billy

Offline Billy stray

  • Posts: 306
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2017, 08:54 PM »
The truth is i would never switch from the systainer format,  i like the size and the other 3 mostly seem like a pig pile type situation rather than individual "kits"
Lesson learned the hard way about cold days
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Billy

Offline Acquired Taste Living

  • Posts: 35
Re: Systainers in the cold
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2017, 10:14 PM »
ahhh what a bummer.  Haven't had to deal with cold climate and my tools yet, but that will certainly change when we move to Utah
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