Author Topic: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1  (Read 15207 times)

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Offline Festool USA

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CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« on: July 09, 2018, 01:17 PM »
Coming October 1 to North America

CT CYCLONE
Less time changing Filter Bags. More time for doing what matters.
The new CT pre-separator with cyclone technology

For craftsmen who work with large volumes of dust and debris, the CT CYCLONE pre-separator is the simplest answer for increasing the efficiency of your CT Dust Extractor and minimizing its lifetime cost of ownership — all within a compact solution that fits seamlessly into the Festool mobility system. Compliant with OSHA’s Table 1 when used with a HEPA-certified CT Dust Extractor*, the CT CYCLONE is an anti-static** three-step filtration system that separates and collects large debris and coarse dust before it reaches the mobile dust extractor — decreasing the number of filters and dust bags that you’ll need to purchase to keep your CT running smoothly. Additionally, the CT CYCLONE reduces the overall dust load on the main filter and ensures consistently high suction power throughout the work process. Compatible with all CT Dust Extractors, it is a highly portable and compact cyclone solution that can be easily transported to wherever your work takes you.

-  When used with a HEPA-certified CT Dust Extractor, the CT CYCLONE is in full compliance with OSHA’s Table 1 rule for silica dust. Applications and details coming soon to festoolusa.com/osha
-  By removing larger dust and debris before it fills your filter bag, the CT CYCLONE reduces how often you need to replace filter bags and filters — saving you both time and money.
-  Engineered with a unique flat cyclone design to minimize necessary space, the CT CYCLONE fits securely within the Festool SYSTAINER modular storage system — allowing for easy storage and transportation.

CT CYCLONE
CT-VA-20
Item no: 204083
Catalog Price: $375 USD / $480 CAN

*Consult festoolusa.com/osha for applications and details.
** Anti-static system is effective only when used with anti-static design (Festool’s CT series) Dust Extractors.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 01:20 PM by Festool USA »

Offline McNally Family

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2018, 01:21 PM »
Can't wait!!!!!
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26  |  RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | SYS-Rock BR10 | Cordless Sander RTSC 400 Set |  Cordless Delta Sander DTSC 400 Basic | Linear Sander LS 130 | PDC 18/4 set | CXS  2.6Ah Set | Installer Cleaning Set (2018 version) |  New style Festool hose D 27/32 x 3,5m AS/CT | Replacement Hose Garage | Remote control CT-F I/M-Set | MFH1000 work stool | Next purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Cheese

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2018, 01:27 PM »
I like it...

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2018, 01:28 PM »
So happy to see it's coming to NA in a very timely manner, too!  [smile] [smile] [smile]

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Corwin

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2018, 01:55 PM »
What took you so long?   [smile]

I'm surprised that the hose between cyclone and CT isn't a larger diameter. And those 90 degree fittings are too tight a bend for my liking, but they do make for a more compact setup.

The way the hose going to the tool comes out of the front, it looks like it will be an awkward fit with a Boom Arm.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline ColossusX

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2018, 02:00 PM »
Finally Table 1 compliance

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2018, 04:21 PM »
Available for pre-order, free shipping.  [wink]
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Offline nvalinski

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2018, 04:37 PM »
Curious how it meets Table 1 compliance... at least as shown, it's using a plastic liner bag on a CT 36 AC, which while capable of handling a HEPA filter, I believe is not rated as HEPA? So I'm assuming to reach Table 1 compliance you have to use the cyclone with the non-AC model?

Offline sprior

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2018, 05:24 PM »
The product description first says compatible with all CT dust collectors and then says it can't be used with the CT-SYS, MINI, or MIDI - I guess they use the US Cellular providers definition of "Unlimited".

But I don't understand why it can't be used with the MINI or MIDI - is it simply that the connecting hose is a little too short given that it gets plugged underneath the systainer?

Offline c_dwyer

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2018, 05:46 PM »
No thank you. I don't want to void the warranty on my vac on account of static electricity building up and frying the electronics. I'll stick with my Oneida UDD that has the built-in static conductive components.  [big grin]

Offline Peter_C

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2018, 07:07 PM »
The way the hose going to the tool comes out of the front, it looks like it will be an awkward fit with a Boom Arm.
The boom arm extension hose is 5ft. I would guess it will wrap around to the back no problem. As shown in this photo the length of the 3.5m hose should still work with the cyclone mounted backwards. (Note: I haven't bought a boom arm setup and am speculating.)



Question: I might have missed it but can the "clear bucket" part be left out and just use the lower systainer part as the bucket, making it more compact, albeit with a more limited container size? (Still utilizing a bag.) Better for road warriors and all...

Offline Svar

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2018, 07:15 PM »
But I don't understand why it can't be used with the MINI or MIDI - is it simply that the connecting hose is a little too short given that it gets plugged underneath the systainer?
Me neither. They are all equally untistatic. What's the problem?

Offline James Carriere

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2018, 07:47 PM »
Looks good.  Any word on if it will be compatible with the WCR 1000?

Offline Svar

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2018, 08:25 PM »
Just a thought.
Shouldn't the cyclone section go between the tub and the motor section of the CT? Then it'll drop dust straight into the tub. Of course the intake of the tub will need to be closed and the cyclone section will have its own intake. Don't all CT series, have the same tub opening shape and dimensions (interchangable)?
In the current configuration the CT tub is not utilized (almost), most of the dust goes into this awkward and mostly redundant tower.
While at it, I'd make the cyclone itself more efficient. >99% is easily achievable. Yes, an efficient cyclone puts more drag on the system, but I'd rather spend the energy there than on pulling air through redundant box, stretch of hose, and two elbows.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 08:59 PM by Svar »

Offline The.Handyman

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2018, 11:51 PM »
Looks good.  Any word on if it will be compatible with the WCR 1000?
Fully compatible. Even says so in the listing on the Festool products website. Imagine that.

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Online SRSemenza

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2018, 12:14 AM »
Just a thought.
Shouldn't the cyclone section go between the tub and the motor section of the CT? Then it'll drop dust straight into the tub. Of course the intake of the tub will need to be closed and the cyclone section will have its own intake. Don't all CT series, have the same tub opening shape and dimensions (interchangable)?
In the current configuration the CT tub is not utilized (almost), most of the dust goes into this awkward and mostly redundant tower.
While at it, I'd make the cyclone itself more efficient. >99% is easily achievable. Yes, an efficient cyclone puts more drag on the system, but I'd rather spend the energy there than on pulling air through redundant box, stretch of hose, and two elbows.

So you are saying that the existing tub on a CT would be divided into a portion with a new bag size and a portion to take the larger particles and chips?

CT26 and CT36 are the same upper part. CT Mini and Midi are the same upper part. CT48 is larger.  CT22 and CT33 have the same upper part.

Seth

Offline Svar

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2018, 12:24 AM »
Just a thought.
Shouldn't the cyclone section go between the tub and the motor section of the CT? Then it'll drop dust straight into the tub. Of course the intake of the tub will need to be closed and the cyclone section will have its own intake. Don't all CT series, have the same tub opening shape and dimensions (interchangable)?
In the current configuration the CT tub is not utilized (almost), most of the dust goes into this awkward and mostly redundant tower.
While at it, I'd make the cyclone itself more efficient. >99% is easily achievable. Yes, an efficient cyclone puts more drag on the system, but I'd rather spend the energy there than on pulling air through redundant box, stretch of hose, and two elbows.
So you are saying that the existing tub on a CT would be divided into a portion with a new bag size and a portion to take the larger particles and chips?
Seth
Cyclone section can contain a small 2-3 liter bag. We are talking about miniscule amount of dust making it through. At least this was my experience with cyclones. I understand its getting complicated, but Festool solution is just awkward.

Offline Chance B

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2018, 12:26 AM »
Wouldn't it have been simpler and better for transport if the top (cyclone portion) systainer just connected to a sys-5 somehow for the collection bin? Heck, even make the bottom sys-5 clear so you can get the same visibility effect and allow liners inside of it.

Online SRSemenza

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2018, 12:48 AM »
Wouldn't it have been simpler and better for transport if the top (cyclone portion) systainer just connected to a sys-5 somehow for the collection bin? Heck, even make the bottom sys-5 clear so you can get the same visibility effect and allow liners inside of it.

  At least one person has built a collection bin from a regular Systainer with a cyclone on top (same idea as the DD for Festool unit). They had to line the inside of the Systainer with plywood to keep the sides from collapsing. As I recall it worked out.

  I think there are trade offs with the design. If the collection bin is a Systainer in size and footprint they stack and transport like any other Sys. But then they would not nest like the bin as shown for compact transport / carrying of a whole bunch of empty bins. If I just had one bin I'd want to be a Systainer. If I had three, five or more I'd want them to nest.

   Seth

Offline Gregor

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2018, 06:25 AM »
My view on it in the other topic. TL;DR: I'm not impressed, to put it mildly.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 06:27 AM by Gregor »

Offline Bob D.

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2018, 10:26 PM »
If they're running a bag in the dust bin, what keeps it from getting sucked up.
I don't see how they are addressing that though they must be somehow.

The only two ways I know of are:

1.) a wire frame that sits inside the bag to keep it from being drawn in or
2.) the method that Oneida uses (and may have patented) and that is to
     equalize the pressure inside and outside the bag using a small 1/4" hose
     that pulls a vacuum on the outside of the bag equal to that on the inside.

This works very well on the Oneida UDD and I bet one could rig up the
same setup on just about any vac.
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Offline Don Ware

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2018, 10:22 PM »
UPS Tracking said I'll get "MY " Demo Monday 8/6/18. I'll make a video after work and post. Ro sanders to 850 plainer. I'm going to try and put it on a CT 26 with boom arm and Work station. New Toy's !!!!!!!
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2018, 05:08 AM »
Wouldn't it have been simpler and better for transport if the top (cyclone portion) systainer just connected to a sys-5 somehow for the collection bin? Heck, even make the bottom sys-5 clear so you can get the same visibility effect and allow liners inside of it.

  At least one person has built a collection bin from a regular Systainer with a cyclone on top (same idea as the DD for Festool unit). They had to line the inside of the Systainer with plywood to keep the sides from collapsing. As I recall it worked out.

   Seth

It was me that fitted a Dust Commander Cyclone into a Sys5.

After my first initial trials with it out on site, there are a few air leaks due to the fact that the plywood lid isn't 100% airtight. I have already made a Mk2 version of the ply drop box that is hopefully going to be more efficient but have yet to try it out as the Mk1 still captures at least 90% of the fine dust I produce.

The size of my drop box is not as large as the containers appear to be on the Festool CT Cyclone (10 or 12 litres at a guess...?) and obviously, that can be rather limiting if you are producing larger quantities of material, such as chippings from a planer/thicknesser. As the majority of what I cut and machine out on site is man made board & sheet materials with fine dust, I check the drop box regularly and empty it.Ive never managed to fill it to overflowing as yet.

It does fit on a Midi though,....as you can see from the pictures in the other thread!  [big grin]

Tim.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 05:17 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Don Ware

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2018, 02:03 PM »
It's here !!!! Came in about half hour ago. I have it hooked up and it works Great !!!!!
I'll make a video after work tonight !!!!!
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Online RobBob

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2018, 03:53 PM »
That's a slick setup with the workcenter.  The Deluxe Dust Deputy is too tall to work with the workcenter.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 07:09 PM by RobBob »

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2018, 06:45 PM »
I saw this video yesterday: 



Peter

Offline Don Ware

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2018, 11:23 PM »
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2018, 04:04 AM »
Thanks for the great live/candid, hands on video Don!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Dick Mahany

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2018, 09:05 AM »
Many thanks for the real life demo.  As a pre-seperator, it sure looks like it is doing the job well.  While I do like my dust deputy very much, the Festool modular design is an excellent design and I like the ability to use it in the compact arangement as well as with the taller bins.  I think this would be an excellent set up if paired with my CTL-SYS.

Offline rst

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2018, 09:10 AM »
I have three Oneidas that work great at my stationary tools, I'll be getting the Festool for in my van.

Offline Joe Felchlin

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2018, 09:30 AM »
Thx Don - For a really informative demo.
While I’ve been a strong advocate/user of my two ALL STEEL Dust Deputies -
Which have seemed to have avoided the problems of grounding and Dust Extractor electronic “burnouts” -
I have to say that it looks like Festool really “listened” to its customers - Rose to the occasion - And “out Dust Deputied” the Dust Deputy.
Three observations were apparent to me from your video.
1.
It really works. So... Major savings on buying/using expensive Festool DE bags.
2.
It looks a LOT STURDIER than I originally thought it to be.
3.
It works “in unison” (fits nicely) with the Festool Dust Extractors.


Of course, “the rubber will meet the road” when it’s in actual use by end users on the job and in our shops.
But... On the front end... This looks like a real “winner”!
Hurrah for Festool... And for us. :)

« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 09:33 AM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline copcarcollector

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2018, 12:36 PM »
@Don Ware

THANKS for the video!

Offline RKA

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2018, 01:06 PM »
Thanks Don, that's helpful!  The cuts with the Kapex surprised me, it appears to have filtered out a good percentage of that dust.
-Raj

Offline Don Ware

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2018, 01:18 PM »
Yes this thing really worked Great !!!!!!
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2018, 01:27 PM »
There seemed to be a lot of static from the clear bin.  I don't if that will be an issue or not. 
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline usernumber1

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2018, 01:37 PM »
thanks for the video. this is still very early;

my question is how much pressure drop is there compared to the black or standard DD.
i'd also like to see how much gets past the cyclone into the bag

i noticed that static in the bin as well, maybe the plastic liner would remedy the issue.

Online jobsworth

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2018, 09:29 PM »
Wow Don thats pretty slick. Im gonna try to make it out to your Festool Demo day and take it for a spin.


Offline guitarchitect

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2018, 11:27 PM »
thanks for the video. this is still very early;

my question is how much pressure drop is there compared to the black or standard DD.
i'd also like to see how much gets past the cyclone into the bag

i noticed that static in the bin as well, maybe the plastic liner would remedy the issue.

Yeah, pressure drop is my big question too - thien separators often lead to a drop of ~50% and the DD is more like 25%...

Offline guitarchitect

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2018, 11:28 PM »
I have three Oneidas that work great at my stationary tools, I'll be getting the Festool for in my van.

Do you have any photos of your setup? I'm hoping to use one underneath a workbench so that I can hide away my CT26E, I was planning to just run lines where I would need to hook up the vac to sweep up the floor, and maybe make a manifold like Peter Parfitt's

Offline Don Ware

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2018, 12:07 AM »
Some days just don't go right..... I shot a new video tonight came home and I have no internet. I'm on my phone right now. I cleaned out the Cyclone and changed out the bag in the CT. Cut with the Planex and plained with the 850 and when I was done there was all most No dust in the bag !!!!! I was just in disbelief at how little dust made it to the bag. I will have video upload ASAP
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Offline Dick Mahany

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2018, 09:11 AM »
Some days just don't go right..... I shot a new video tonight came home and I have no internet. I'm on my phone right now. I cleaned out the Cyclone and changed out the bag in the CT. Cut with the Planex and plained with the 850 and when I was done there was all most No dust in the bag !!!!! I was just in disbelief at how little dust made it to the bag. I will have video upload ASAP

Looking forward to seeing the bag contents.  With all of the dust in the bin and a relatively empty bag, it tells me that it doesn't matter whether it is a cyclone or a Thein baffle, it gets the job done. [smile]

Online RobBob

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2018, 09:23 AM »
Some days just don't go right..... I shot a new video tonight came home and I have no internet. I'm on my phone right now. I cleaned out the Cyclone and changed out the bag in the CT. Cut with the Planex and plained with the 850 and when I was done there was all most No dust in the bag !!!!! I was just in disbelief at how little dust made it to the bag. I will have video upload ASAP

Looking forward to seeing the bag contents.  With all of the dust in the bin and a relatively empty bag, it tells me that it doesn't matter whether it is a cyclone or a Thein baffle, it gets the job done. [smile]

Amen to that. 

Those people that say only a long cyclone with the magic math ratio can deliver acceptable fine dust separation just flat don't know what they are talking about.

Offline Cheese

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2018, 10:30 AM »

Amen to that. 


Amen and I'll raise you a hallelujah.  [smile]

I learned my lesson years ago designing capital equipment. You want to start off a new design with theory on your side but you don't want to be handcuffed by it.  That's one reason model shops exist and thrive.  [big grin]

I know the recent demo at the Festool Roadshow using a Planex & CT Cyclone was pretty impressive. Impressive to the point where I'm now considering purchasing a CT Cyclone.  [huh]

Offline Steven Owen

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2018, 10:36 AM »
I wonder if there will be a way to adapt this unit to the Midi.  I'm not sure why everyone keeps forgetting the MIDI Users.
Festool CT Midi, Festool ETS 125, DF 700 Domino Coming Soon

Offline usernumber1

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2018, 12:53 PM »
I wonder if there will be a way to adapt this unit to the Midi.  I'm not sure why everyone keeps forgetting the MIDI Users.

you can probably hook it up to a shop vac if you wanted to. i'd be curious how that performs!

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2018, 01:03 PM »

Amen to that. 


Amen and I'll raise you a hallelujah.  [smile]

I learned my lesson years ago designing capital equipment. You want to start off a new design with theory on your side but you don't want to be handcuffed by it.  That's one reason model shops exist and thrive.  [big grin]

I know the recent demo at the Festool Roadshow using a Planex & CT Cyclone was pretty impressive. Impressive to the point where I'm now considering purchasing a CT Cyclone.  [huh]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but you aren't any farther ahead spending the money on a cyclone over buying bags unless you use a ton of bags.  Most people don't use a lot of bags and they will only lose money on the cyclone on top of having a much larger, bulkier vac setup.
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Offline Dick Mahany

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2018, 01:24 PM »

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but you aren't any farther ahead spending the money on a cyclone over buying bags unless you use a ton of bags.  Most people don't use a lot of bags and they will only lose money on the cyclone on top of having a much larger, bulkier vac setup.

The break even point between the CT Cyclone and my CT36 is 39 bags.  That is MANY years worth of bags for my use.  OTOH, it would be a nice compact solution for use with my CTL-SYS, albeit a pricey one. 

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 668
Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2018, 02:02 PM »
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but you aren't any farther ahead spending the money on a cyclone over buying bags unless you use a ton of bags.  Most people don't use a lot of bags and they will only lose money on the cyclone on top of having a much larger, bulkier vac setup.
True to a point, especially for a home woodworker. I find when sanding drywall with my regular CT36 the bags plug and suction is reduced. Right now my bag is less than 1/6 full and whacking it around, it still isn't producing the kind of suction it should, so I will be replacing the bag the next time I require full suction.

I have an Oneida bucket cyclone and it works very well for even fine dust. Unfortunately it is not as portable as I wish it was (Should really be using it).

Hoping this new design drops fine dust into a plastic bag and allows me to continue using my CT36 for sanding drywall. Didn't take much to convince me I need one. May not be for everyone, but it definitely has it's place.


Offline RKA

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2018, 02:16 PM »
Even with wood dust, I'll typically replace at 75% full because there is a drop off in suction as the bag nears capacity. 
-Raj

Offline Cheese

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2018, 03:00 PM »
Ya, I’m not looking to save money, just want to lighten my load. When sanding drywall, the CT 22 loses its goodness in a short period of time. After that it’s unpile the Systainers, open the 22, whack the bag a couple of times, check the filters...then repeat the process in 45 minutes. It’d be a lot easier to just dump a plastic bin of drywall dust.

Offline copcarcollector

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2018, 05:17 PM »
FYI, there's an adapter available as an accessory part so you can use the cyclone with your sleeved hose:

575668

https://www.facebook.com/jared.jones.39142072/videos/532037707225785/

@Shane Holland , is this something dealers like you will have too..?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 05:25 PM by copcarcollector »

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2018, 06:14 PM »
FYI, there's an adapter available as an accessory part so you can use the cyclone with your sleeved hose: 575668

@Shane Holland , is this something dealers like you will have too..?

@copcarcollector, yes, I've added it to the website for pre-order. You should only need this if you have one of the sleeved hoses with the Plug-It running through the zippered sleeve.

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Offline pettyconstruction

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2018, 07:57 PM »
Even with wood dust, I'll typically replace at 75% full because there is a drop off in suction as the bag nears capacity.
With my ct-26 I do the same,
But what I don’t like about both the Oneida and Festool versions , is the plastic box or bag is allowing the fine dust to get airborne when you dump it. I don’t have either so I’m guessing .
With my vac,I just toss the bag ,replace.
I don’t think  want a open container to deal with vrs a closed bag.
Charlie


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Offline Don Ware

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2018, 09:41 PM »

New bag in the CT 26, CT Cyclone all vacuumed out. Let's see how much dust get's to the CT 26 bag !!!!! ( So little it's hard to film, I expected a LOT more dust !!!!! )
Don Ware
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Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2018, 10:23 PM »
That's an impressive demo. Thanks for taking the time to record and upload the video.
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Offline Don Ware

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2018, 10:46 PM »
This is all new to me, I'm learning as I go. But I'm really enjoying making these video's !!!! Thank You for watching !!!!
Don Ware
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Offline Dick Mahany

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2018, 08:39 AM »
Thank you for the 2nd video demonstrating how effective the CT pre-separator is.  The miniscule particles that did make it into the bag looked to be the fines which makes sense. 

I'm anxious to see such a test by someone who sands drywall as that will be the ultimate test.

Offline Gregor

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #57 on: August 09, 2018, 10:34 AM »
I'm anxious to see such a test by someone who sands drywall as that will be the ultimate test.
Or sanding wood.

Given the videos of the thing in action I suspect extraction efficiency (for the finer stuff) will lessen with the waste container filling.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 10:37 AM by Gregor »

Offline Steven Owen

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #58 on: August 09, 2018, 11:06 AM »
This is all new to me, I'm learning as I go. But I'm really enjoying making these video's !!!! Thank You for watching !!!!

Hi Don,

Here’s an idea for another video.  It would be interesting to see a quick video of the MIDI interfaced with the new Festool cyclone.  It would be interesting to see what accessories might be required to make the Festool Cyclone work with the Midi.
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Offline Cheese

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #59 on: August 09, 2018, 11:26 AM »
Here’s an idea for another video.  It would be interesting to see a quick video of the MIDI interfaced with the new Festool cyclone.  It would be interesting to see what accessories might be required to make the Festool Cyclone work with the Midi.

My guess would be a longer hose with a 90º end connection.

Offline RKA

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #60 on: August 09, 2018, 11:57 AM »
...that accomodates a 50mm hose (assuming that's what's used on the CT's).
-Raj

Offline Steven Owen

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #61 on: August 09, 2018, 12:45 PM »
Here’s an idea for another video.  It would be interesting to see a quick video of the MIDI interfaced with the new Festool cyclone.  It would be interesting to see what accessories might be required to make the Festool Cyclone work with the Midi.

My guess would be a longer hose with a 90º end connection.

I think you would want an anit static hose about 5 feet long.  I would be worried about lost suction using a 10 foot hose back to the vacuum.
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Offline Don Ware

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #62 on: August 09, 2018, 01:10 PM »
I'm a Festool dealer. If Festool said CT Cyclone only works with CT 26/36/48. I can't make a video showing you how to do something Festool is telling you not to do. And if you do it and do it wrong and you break the ground between your CT and the CT Cyclone you could kill your Mini or Midi. And I don't want to be any part of that either.
Don Ware
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Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2018, 01:35 PM »
This is all new to me, I'm learning as I go. But I'm really enjoying making these video's !!!! Thank You for watching !!!!

I've also very much enjoyed watching the other Festool videos that you have on YouTube!  Lots of good information!
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Offline Steven Owen

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2018, 02:42 PM »
I'm a Festool dealer. If Festool said CT Cyclone only works with CT 26/36/48. I can't make a video showing you how to do something Festool is telling you not to do. And if you do it and do it wrong and you break the ground between your CT and the CT Cyclone you could kill your Mini or Midi. And I don't want to be any part of that either.

I can understand the position you have to take as a Festool dealer.  You have to tow the line.

All it takes to connect this to a Midi is a longer Festool Anti Static hose.  I don't see how that would compromise the anti static protection as long as the hose being used was not anit-static.  The only problem I could see there would be a loss of some suction power using a longer hose.
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Online jobsworth

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2018, 11:28 PM »
Im interested in this cyclone as do go through a lot of bags. I do have the long life bags in both my CTs but I find I have to empty the main one CT 26 about every week or so. To me If I can just lift off a box from the CT and not having to open up the halves it would save me a bit of time. i think if something will save me some steps or time its worth it.

So Im gonna tell the kiddos to get me one for Xmas.

Offline ben_r_

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2018, 12:02 AM »
Man... So now with the Plug-It accessory its a $415 setup. Wow... Makes me glad I bought the Oneida back with it was $199.
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Offline tallgrass

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2018, 12:58 AM »
A simple test of how well it separates would be to fill the bucket up half way and weigh it. Vacuum the the contents of the bucket  and weigh the bucket in the separator. the difference will give a good idea. I know you have vast amounts of saw dust in the accumulators you guys run at Anderson.  I would expect it would do a very good job. Not trying to ruin your day Don. :)

Offline Peter_C

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2018, 10:21 AM »
Man... So now with the Plug-It accessory its a $415 setup. Wow... Makes me glad I bought the Oneida back with it was $199.
A very reasonably priced triple tap solves the issue. Personally I see no advantage to buying that expensive extension cord, and I often have multiple tools plugged into my dust extractor. What I want is automatic blast gates.

A simple test of how well it separates would be to fill the bucket up half way and weigh it. Vacuum the the contents of the bucket  and weigh the bucket in the separator. the difference will give a good idea. I know you have vast amounts of saw dust in the accumulators you guys run at Anderson.  I would expect it would do a very good job. Not trying to ruin your day Don. :)
Could also just weigh the bag and the container, then go to work and weigh them again after. Difference in weight can be figured as a percentage.

Offline tallgrass

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2018, 02:45 PM »
True, however I do not know if Don has bags yet. The 2 container idea is simply vacuuming from and to  identical containers and measuring the difference. There are many ways to figure out efficiency. Though I expect that this set up works just fine. I am already on the hook for one.  :)

Offline jonathan-m

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2018, 02:55 PM »
the real test will be drywall and concrete grinding dust...
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Offline RKA

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2018, 05:20 PM »
I was waiting for that when Don mentioned Planex earlier in the thread.  But it looks like he accidentally interchanged planex for kapex.  But, if he has some time on his hands and some of the walls in the new Festool display area need some touching up....   [big grin]
-Raj

Offline Don Ware

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #72 on: August 10, 2018, 09:35 PM »
No I don't have a Demo Planex ……….. And I don't have any freshly mud covered walls LOL
And I don't have a scale that would weigh that little bit of saw dust I only have a postal scale.
And more saw dust fell out of the hose when I was putting every thing away than was in the bag.
And the cyclone it self had dust stuck on it. So if you had a scale that would weigh things down to a very small weight. You could weigh the bag before and after. But I all so have some bloodwood and some ebony and a littel of that saw dust weighs a lot, and I have some Balsa ( personal use, I like to make mock ups with non for sale ) and a whole bag full of that sawdust weighs almost nothing . So you saw the look on my face when I looked in the bag...... I could not beleave that there was almost no sawdust in the bag ....... My first tought was How can I film something thats not there. And yes some one said " Cut the bag open " You do known I pay for these bags out of my pocket, I bought the camera and do this because I find it fun. So if anyone wants to send me a brand new CT 26 bag I'll do the video again LOL !!!! ( Just Joking don't be mailing me CT 26 bags !!!!! ) I am very glad most people that watch my video's like them !!!!!! If you like them Thank You !!!! That's what keeps me going every day. If you would like to see something and I have a Demo tool I will try and make a video for you.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 10:13 PM by Don Ware »
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 737
Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2018, 01:17 AM »
your work is much appreciated. you are just going to have to put up with your adoring fans. The life of a celebrity. :)

Offline grainhaus

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2018, 01:51 PM »
Its a bummer the Midi/Mini are never included in the big accessory upgrades like this, very annoying. Why Sell something to limit it out of the gate from new accessories, no bluetooth, etc. All it needs to work on the midi is a little longer hose. Why say it isn't compatible unless theres another reason they aren't saying?

Offline Steven Owen

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #75 on: August 11, 2018, 03:27 PM »
Its a bummer the Midi/Mini are never included in the big accessory upgrades like this, very annoying. Why Sell something to limit it out of the gate from new accessories, no bluetooth, etc. All it needs to work on the midi is a little longer hose. Why say it isn't compatible unless theres another reason they aren't saying?

The hose the included might actually be long enough to reach the Midi hose port if you mount it backwards.  I don’t think it’s an anti-static issue.  It would be more of a loss of suction issue.  The MiDI motor is slightly less power than the CT26.
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Offline JD2720

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #76 on: August 11, 2018, 04:15 PM »
Its a bummer the Midi/Mini are never included in the big accessory upgrades like this, very annoying. Why Sell something to limit it out of the gate from new accessories, no bluetooth, etc. All it needs to work on the midi is a little longer hose. Why say it isn't compatible unless theres another reason they aren't saying?

My guess of why Festool does not want it used on the MINI & MIDI is a weight issue. The MINI & MIDI have a much smaller footprint than the full CT 26, 36 & 48. The MINI & MIDI would not be very stable with 50+ lbs of drywall dust setting on top of them.

Offline Steven Owen

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #77 on: August 11, 2018, 05:01 PM »
Its a bummer the Midi/Mini are never included in the big accessory upgrades like this, very annoying. Why Sell something to limit it out of the gate from new accessories, no bluetooth, etc. All it needs to work on the midi is a little longer hose. Why say it isn't compatible unless theres another reason they aren't saying?

My guess of why Festool does not want it used on the MINI & MIDI is a weight issue. The MINI & MIDI have a much smaller footprint than the full CT 26, 36 & 48. The MINI & MIDI would not be very stable with 50+ lbs of drywall dust setting on top of them.

There is another possiblilty for the Midi:

The other possible option would be to sit the cyclone on a Festool roller cart and attach it behind the MIDI.  Using a Festool cart would be a cheaper option than buying a longer hose.
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Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #78 on: August 11, 2018, 05:47 PM »
I’ll add to the ‘Why not” speculation, how about putting the CT CYCLONE on top of a SysRoll dolly powered by a CT SYS on top. Don’t have firsthand knowledge of either CTs but I agree with Steven that a Mini/Midi ought to be functional with the CYCLONE.

Offline JD2720

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #79 on: August 11, 2018, 06:52 PM »
I’ll add to the ‘Why not” speculation, how about putting the CT CYCLONE on top of a SysRoll dolly powered by a CT SYS on top. Don’t have firsthand knowledge of either CTs but I agree with Steven that a Mini/Midi ought to be functional with the CYCLONE.

The CT Cyclone will function with any brand of vacuum. It just cannot be used on top of other vacuums the way it can be on top of the CT 26, 36 & 48.  I like the idea of using it with the SYS-Cart or the Sys-Roll & CT-Sys. 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 08:59 PM by JD2720 »

Offline Steven Owen

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #80 on: August 11, 2018, 07:42 PM »
I’ll add to the ‘Why not” speculation, how about putting the CT CYCLONE on top of a SysRoll dolly powered by a CT SYS on top. Don’t have firsthand knowledge of either CTs but I agree with Steven that a Mini/Midi ought to be functional with the CYCLONE.

The CT Cyclone will function with any brand of vacuum. It just cannot be used on top of other vacuums the way it can be on top of the CT 26, 36 & 48.  I like the idea of using it with the SYS-Cart or the Sys-Roll & CY-Sys.

I think the sys cart would be a more practical way to connect the Festool Cyclone to the Midi.  A longer hose with the unit stacked on top would create stability and possible suction loss of the hose connecting the Midi to the cyclone is too long.

There’s actually more options to connect a Festool cyclone to a MIDI than the Onieda. 
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Online Eorlingur

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #81 on: August 12, 2018, 05:05 AM »
I’ll add to the ‘Why not” speculation, how about putting the CT CYCLONE on top of a SysRoll dolly powered by a CT SYS on top. Don’t have firsthand knowledge of either CTs but I agree with Steven that a Mini/Midi ought to be functional with the CYCLONE.

Thats what I'm hoping is possible. It would be a very flexible way of solving very different needs with fewer parts. If it would fit under a CMS unit as well it would be the perfect setup for me. It would also enable separation, for recycling purposes, of different types of dust with a single extractor. I would use the separator for all wood dust and just use the CT vac for paint and plastic. That would reduce the need for two separate vacuums for some projects.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #82 on: August 12, 2018, 12:48 PM »
To get even more modular,

Units are Systainer forms

Mix and match as needed

Hose storage unit
Power unit (gasketed)
Filtration/bag unit
Diverter unit?
Separation unit
Dolly

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 610
Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2018, 10:18 AM »
Can it be used with the CT22 and CT33?

Offline JD2720

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #84 on: August 20, 2018, 10:35 AM »
Can it be used with the CT22 and CT33?

It can be used with any vacuum as far as dust separation. If the CT22 & CT33 can support the weight of a full tub of drywall dust, than it may be able to be set on top of them. 

Offline Cheese

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #85 on: August 20, 2018, 10:39 AM »
Can it be used with the CT22 and CT33?

Yes...this was confirmed by Festool.

Offline ronen

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #86 on: September 03, 2018, 02:49 AM »
Hi everyone,
I'm new here...
Great Forum!
I need some help:
Does anyone know if the festool ct pre-separator ct-va-20 is compatible with the cleantec CTL-mini and/or the cleantec CT 17 ?
Can it be mounted on the CTL-mini?
Thanks a lot
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 02:52 AM by ronen »

Online jobsworth

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #87 on: September 03, 2018, 03:25 PM »
I dont think it can.

 I think its designed to work with a regular CT

I would call Festool to be sure.

Online Bullterrier

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #88 on: September 04, 2018, 02:54 AM »
I see that Festool UK has updated the description to state separation of:

Up to 80% mineral dust (to be used with Autoclean vac).

Up to 95% coarse dust (sawdust shavings chips)

I assume MDF dust would fall across the 2 categories?

It will be good to see some real world video reviews soon!


Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1088
Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #89 on: September 04, 2018, 10:16 AM »
I see that Festool UK has updated the description to state separation of:

Up to 80% mineral dust (to be used with Autoclean vac).

Up to 95% coarse dust (sawdust shavings chips)

I assume MDF dust would fall across the 2 categories?

It will be good to see some real world video reviews soon!


And some comparisons with the Oneida!
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Offline Gregor

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #90 on: September 04, 2018, 11:00 AM »
I just saw the CT CYCLONE live on a roadshow.

Still not impressed.
Comment from another visitor: great idea, but why does it need to look that pieced together?

Offline wilde737

  • Posts: 31
Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #91 on: September 07, 2018, 09:17 PM »
Anyone know if this can be used on a CT36 for use with the planex without having an Autoclean vac?  I would like to buy one but just can't justify buying another vac as well, I already have two for my little hobby shop.  Thanks

Online Bullterrier

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #92 on: September 08, 2018, 03:44 AM »
Festool state up to 80% separation of fine dust and recommend the AC. There’s no physical restriction but the 20%+ passing through would soon affect suction.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1973
Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #93 on: September 08, 2018, 09:41 AM »
Remember, that 20% is going into your bag, not the filter.

Online jobsworth

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #94 on: September 08, 2018, 12:08 PM »
@rst

That is true. What I like is the increase capacity. Since I use my CT 26 to suck up the chips from my CMS Ts 75 module, and router modules, plus suck up the chips that dont make it in the trash when I use my Makita thicknesser/Planer and Jet jointer.

So there is a advantage to haveing the larger capacity for me. Especially on larger jobs/projects

Offline JimH2

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2018, 08:59 AM »
Unless you are a production shop it probably is a lot cheaper to keep buying new bags or to buy one of the ones that is reusable. You'd have to run through a lot of bags to offset the cost and even with this you still need to buy bags (just not as many).

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #96 on: September 09, 2018, 09:20 AM »
Obviously this as @JimH2 points out will not be for everyone.  Neither will using just bags or even the long-life bags.  I could see myself potentially getting one for some scenarios but then again, not for all.  I have never gone the long life bag route because I do drywall repairs and the finer dust does clog the pores of the long-life bags.  I don't use the router enough to justify that bag either.

I have one of the plastic Oneida cyclones that I rigged up a way to attach it to my older CT but stopped using it because it was clunky.  To get rid of the larger bulky stuff in a non disposable bag situation was great.  It did elongate the intervals before bag replacements for me even when sanding drywall.

I think that the new Cyclone will appeal to a large part of the market but obviously will not be for everyone.  I am now traveling with my current model Midi so unless I switch back to my larger CT I am not a candidate for the Cyclone unless I mod things.

Peter

Offline Cheese

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #97 on: September 09, 2018, 10:25 AM »
I'm considering purchasing one for my CT 22 just so that I can monitor how much dust has been generated and empty the vac EARLIER and EASIER.   With the conventional setup, it's out of sight, out of mind and the bag gets packed full.

Miele has had "full bag" indicators on their vacuums for the last 10 years.  [cool]   Never understood why Festool didn't offer that feature.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #98 on: September 09, 2018, 10:53 AM »
I'm considering purchasing one for my CT 22 just so that I can monitor how much dust has been generated and empty the vac EARLIER and EASIER.   With the conventional setup, it's out of sight, out of mind and the bag gets packed full.

Miele has had "full bag" indicators on their vacuums for the last 10 years.  [cool]   Never understood why Festool didn't offer that feature.

My experience is that although it happens to “brick” a bag, performance is probably slipping as the bag pores are getting clogged.  I wouldn’t pay one dollar more for an indicator on the Festool vacs because personally I feel that it would send the wrong message.  By the time the bag is full it isn’t working as well. 

I am admittedly a bag slicer or cleaner who has tried to extend the life of bags although I haven’t done that on the newer fabric style bags.

Peter

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #99 on: September 09, 2018, 12:13 PM »
@Peter Halle, why not? (I haven’t yet bought a fabric bag)

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #100 on: September 09, 2018, 12:43 PM »
@Michael Kellough, Is the question was why haven't I slit a fabric bag yet?

Peter

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #101 on: September 09, 2018, 02:44 PM »
@Peter Halle, yep. I open paper bags to re-use when the debris isn’t so fine as to plug the filter medium bit thanks to usually using a Dust Deputy I’m still working through a stash of paper bags so I’m wondering about the fabric bags. Tape won’t stick?

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #102 on: September 09, 2018, 03:11 PM »
@Michael Kellough , I don't know yet if tape will stick.  I have always assumed that I was going to have to sew or use slit pvc pipe.  This week I will be doing a large mantle out of MDF sheet so I might have a full bag soon though.  That will be the fifth bag on this job - GROWL! 

Consolation is that the homeowner has commented on how clean I am versus others working on the job.

Peter

Offline RKA

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #103 on: September 09, 2018, 04:14 PM »
I'm considering purchasing one for my CT 22 just so that I can monitor how much dust has been generated and empty the vac EARLIER and EASIER.   With the conventional setup, it's out of sight, out of mind and the bag gets packed full.

Miele has had "full bag" indicators on their vacuums for the last 10 years.  [cool]   Never understood why Festool didn't offer that feature.

Your point is valid, but the Miele feature is less than advertised.  I find the indicator hasn’t moved enough to indicate a drop in suction, but I can tell when the performance has dropped.  A visual check of the bag confirms it’s 75% full and changing it out restores the performance.  So I don’t find that implementation useful at all. 
-Raj

Offline rst

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #104 on: September 09, 2018, 04:23 PM »
I haven't slit any of my bags yet but I replaced a lost Makita bag clip by splitting a length of polypropylene tube cutting angles into the ends and slipping it over the folded bag...still using it 15+ years later.  Split tube like this is also great for slipping over saw teeth to protect the sharpness and other tools in tool boxes.  Usually the tube is sold in the plumbing sections of hardware stores and it is better to heat and straighten it before splitting.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 05:21 PM by rst »

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #105 on: September 09, 2018, 05:08 PM »
I haven't slit any of my bags yet but I replaced a lost Makita bag clip by splitting a length of polypropylene tube cutting angles into the ends and slipping it over the folded bag...still using it 15+ years later.  Split tube like this is also great for slipping over saw teeth to protect the sharpness and over tools in tool boxes.  Usually the tube is sold in the plumbing sections of hardware stores and it is better to heat and straighten it before splitting.

Great tip! Didn’t know you could do that.

Offline Cheese

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #106 on: September 10, 2018, 12:35 AM »
Your point is valid, but the Miele feature is less than advertised.  I find the indicator hasn’t moved enough to indicate a drop in suction, but I can tell when the performance has dropped.  A visual check of the bag confirms it’s 75% full and changing it out restores the performance.  So I don’t find that implementation useful at all.

Well to each his own... I rather like the indicator and while it’s not a hammer in the head “change this bag now” statement, if you monitor it’s action, it is a litmus test as to how far you’ve travelled down the “is this bag almost filled” road.
While a speedometer doesn’t prevent you from exceeding the speed limit, it is a nice option and certainly better than no speedometer at all.
I’m old enough to remember when wind shield wipers, wind shield washers and seat belts were all additional extra cost options on a car.
So maybe this “bag getting full” feature on a vacuum comes under that jurisdiction...good ideas that just need to wait out their time and at some time become adopted as “finally the time has arrived” for this idea. Just a thought... [big grin]


Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #107 on: September 10, 2018, 10:33 AM »
I’m with @Cheese sure would like to know the bag is getting full before it becomes a brick on the CT 22 with it’s stupid rigid pipe into the bag design. When using that vac for sanding there is still enough suction (especially if you’re at the end of a project and working with fine grits and lower suction) that there isn’t even a subtle indication that the bag is full. And when the bag is packed tight with dust (especially when the dust is reinforced with planer shavings) you aren’t getting that bag out until you’re run a long auger into that stupid pipe.



Offline Cheese

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #108 on: September 10, 2018, 01:39 PM »
Pulling a "bricked out" bag out of a CT 22 is futile. It's only happened a couple of times but I remember it like it was yesterday.

Even worse, is trying to remove a 15 gallon "bricked out" bag from a Milwaukee stainless R2D2 vac. It's impossible, I don't even attempt it, I just take a knife to the bag and start to scoop debris with my hands. What a mess...  [crying]

Offline rst

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #109 on: September 10, 2018, 06:26 PM »
Broke down and ordered mine today.

Offline Douglas Urner

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #110 on: September 14, 2018, 04:43 PM »
No thank you. I don't want to void the warranty on my vac on account of static electricity building up and frying the electronics. I'll stick with my Oneida UDD that has the built-in static conductive components.  [big grin]

I think I read somewhere that the sys-cyclone has a static conductive pathway.

Online jobsworth

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #111 on: September 15, 2018, 12:09 PM »
Im with Cheese and Michael K to. I want to know when the bags getting full. Hate being in the middle of project then lose suction bc the bag is bricked and dust going everywhere. Then I have to stop empty the bag clean up the mess before i go on. This with the box makes life easier that way.

plus If I get a real large job I can just get some more bins. Pop one out pop one in ad go on.

Offline Don Ware

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #112 on: September 15, 2018, 01:02 PM »
OK one last video. I vacuum up 25 pounds of saw dust then weigh the bag and cut it open to show you what made it into the bag.
Don Ware
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Offline Dick Mahany

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #113 on: September 15, 2018, 01:37 PM »
OK one last video. I vacuum up 25 pounds of saw dust then weigh the bag and cut it open to show you what made it into the bag.

Well that pretty much says it all.  Impressive indeed !  Thank you Don.

Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #114 on: September 15, 2018, 01:43 PM »
That is impressive!  Thank you for sacrificing that brand new bag as well.
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Offline Don T

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #115 on: September 15, 2018, 05:40 PM »
That definitely makes up my mind. I will be buying from Anderson since Don took the time and materials to do a demo.
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Offline Cheese

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #116 on: September 15, 2018, 06:00 PM »
Thanks 🙏 for the demo Don...that was pretty impressive.




Offline RKA

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #117 on: September 15, 2018, 08:06 PM »
Thank you Don!  That was very helpful!  This is worse than a real world scenario because you’re flooding the cyclone with dust.  I would not have been surprised to see more in the bag under these conditions.  These results are far better than I would have expected.  Thanks for sacrificing the bag, now if you’ll just post your address you’ll receive a lifetime supply from all the grateful FOG members!   [tongue]
-Raj

Offline Don Ware

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #118 on: September 15, 2018, 09:21 PM »
@RKA  Yah I've been throwing things at this for a month now, And it been blowing my mind how well it works. And I have already over filled the cyclone ( Not paying attention …… Hickory live edge slab making it flat with the 850 planer ) I didn't think the bag would be that hard to cut. And after 14 years of trying to make a bag last as long as possible 1st CT 22 and after CT 26 bag  cutting a good bag open hurt LOL !!!!! This thing has amazed me !!!! I film these real time and it's still does better then I thought it would. Glad this helps !!!!! I am having fun making the video's !!!!
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Online jobsworth

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #119 on: September 15, 2018, 11:46 PM »
Thanks for doing this Don. A lotof folks were getting hung up with loss of suction, but this video clears that up. Who cares if there is a little loss , it does a great job. Come on Santa....

Oh nice knife to  [big grin]

See ya next month at the road show

Offline Don Ware

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #120 on: September 15, 2018, 11:54 PM »
@jobsworth I thank you for that knife !!!!!! One of my most used " Festool Things "
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #121 on: September 16, 2018, 01:50 AM »
Don's results show a far better percentage being trapped by the interceptor than I achieved. I think that his test was more thorough than mine:



I am looking at the performance with the CT Sys which should be completed soon.

Peter

Offline rst

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #122 on: September 16, 2018, 08:58 AM »
Fantastic video, thanks Don for justifying my faith in Festool engineering as I just ordered mine from Toolnut last week.  I knocked the inspection light out of first place for gotta haves.

Online jobsworth

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Re: CT CYCLONE Pre-Separator: Coming to NA on October 1
« Reply #123 on: September 16, 2018, 04:25 PM »
@jobsworth I thank you for that knife !!!!!! One of my most used " Festool Things "

@Don Ware

no worries buddy Ill see ya next month. I may have a little sumptim sumptim for ya then to :>D