Author Topic: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet  (Read 17772 times)

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Offline Terry Fogarty

  • Posts: 393
3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« on: May 06, 2007, 05:39 AM »
Here is a 3-way mitered cabinet using the Domino. The frame is solid Sassafras and the panels are Sassafras veneer


Domino settings were:

    * 6mm cutter,
    * Depth 28mm,
    * Width 3rd setting
    * 14mm Height (very bottom notch) and indexed at 17mm left and right on the plastic index cover

Pic 1 - Shows the stock 45mm x 45mm with the texta showing the stock to be removed with the miter cut and also the Domi cut. I always put blue tape on the two faces of everything i do, saves confussion. Im easly confussed ;D

Pic - 2 Shows Domi ready to go. Its sitting with the 10mm on the plastic slider set to the "edge" of the miter and when you cut the other side just move the 17mm onto the same edge

Pic - 3 Shows the 2 finished mortices.

Pic - 4 Shows it ready on the sled to miter.

Pic - 5 Shows the completed miter with Domis in place. You need to cut the Dominos to length and make sure they dont "sit proud of the mitered edge." That part is crucial. It dosnt appear their is much meat on the domis for a good bond but their is. I have done 6 cabinets like this now and the join is rock solid.



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Offline Terry Fogarty

  • Posts: 393
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2007, 05:41 AM »
Pic 1 - When you have three peices cut, one Domi dowel will be used to glue up Two sections then two smaller Domi dowels will pop in to fit the third peice.

Pic 2 - Shows the completed joins being dry fitted. The yellow arrows are a tight fitting Domi mortice and the red arrows show a mortice on the second setting.

Pic 3 - Shows it dry fitted

Pic 4 and 5 the completed cabinet  ;D
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Offline Rob McGilp

  • Posts: 430
  • Curmudgeon
    • Damn Fine Furniture
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2007, 06:33 AM »
still a brilliant and easy (ho ho) joint. :)

Offline PatR

  • Posts: 186
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2007, 06:56 AM »
Poetry in motion L.....Tezzer and again it shows the admirable dexterity and flexibility of that paragon of German engineering excellence, the one and only biccy eater the Domino. Herr Vogel would be mighty impressed.

Whilst I do appreciate that there are countless biscuit jointer fans out there (I was one), the Domino feature that still tickles me is the ability to dry assemble. And though it is true that brute force and ignorance (my two most endearing qualities according to my Princess) is sometimes needed to remove pieces it is great to adjust here and there before opening the dreaded glue pot.

I do not regret getting rid of my Lamello though It was a beautifully engineered tool. The chap who bought mine has since been round chez moi and had a go on the Domino. He was muttering something under his breath which sounded like "you barsteward" but a quick glance from Simou concentrated his mind. He left to put his Lamello on EBay to fund a Domino. We are now a biscuit free house except of course those canine recipe ones favoured by his lordship and his chum Megan.


Pat and the Lad

PS You were right about this Forum. What a thoroughly nice bunch of people who appreciate their tools and can understand the bug and the green/black slippery slope. In marked contrast to the Small Minded Children in the other place. I have put a few photos of the Kapex and the lad as you requested.

Offline Terry Fogarty

  • Posts: 393
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2007, 07:16 AM »
Pat, Simou and Megan  ;D  Yes Herr Vogel would enjoy some of the Downunder Dominatrix uses. But what im envious of, is you have a "Tight Domi" remover in Simou where as i need some pliers.  ::)

The dry assembly of Domied cabinets is just stunning. A lamello isnt even in the same race and the only way the ill informed would prefer one over a Domi is because they have never even layed finger on one little own used one.

And yep this is a good forum to share and learn ideas.

The other Aussie forum is all but dead when it comes to the Festool threads. Over moderated and the banning of a popular festool member has all but killed it. Shame as it was a real goer at one stage.

Good blokes here. Good to see you, Simou and Megan have decided to join the "Festoolian family"
« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 11:04 PM by Tezzer »
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Offline Dave Rudy

  • Posts: 771
  • Coloroda Front Range, in the lee of Pikes Peak
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2007, 08:30 AM »
T,

Thanks for sharing and the pics.  That is one beautiful chest.  Trusting you and Pat and Albert (who is he anyway?) that this is a simple joint, I'm now determined to try my hand at mastering it.

You are great inspiration!!! 

Dave

Offline T. Michael

  • Posts: 63
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2007, 02:46 PM »
Hi Tezzer,

That is a beautiful cabinet.  Thanks for sharing

I learned to make that joint (in my pre-domino days) with a miter saw and router table setup to cut the mortii.  Did it with the slots parallel to the faces of the legs, which makes assembly easy, but the splines (which we used in the oldend days) are short, since one cuts the mortise before mitering the legs and aprons of the table.  So assembly is easy, since you can do two pieces at a time.

Then I read Rick Christopherson's supplemental Domino manual -- http://festool.home.att.net/ and saw that he had a new way to make this Parson's joint, or three way locked miter joint.  He cut the miters first, then referenced the Domino off the mitered face and the face of the leg; so that the cut is deeper, giving you better grip on a longer domino, but you mist slide all three pieces of each joint together at the same time.  You can dry fit but it is also tricky to dissasemble.  and putting four corners together seemed to require putting two diagonal corners togehter (easy) then both of the other diagonal corners together ... hard, takes 4 or 6 hands.  But do yield lovely joints.

Mike
T. Michael Ward

Offline Rob McGilp

  • Posts: 430
  • Curmudgeon
    • Damn Fine Furniture
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2007, 05:02 PM »
Hi Mike,
The advantage of this 3 way mitre mitre is that you only need the two hands most of us were given, so it's an easier joint to use in the real world. As to comparative strength, Tezzer would be best to answer that.

Regards,

Albert

Offline Rob McGilp

  • Posts: 430
  • Curmudgeon
    • Damn Fine Furniture
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2007, 05:04 PM »
I forgot to mention, I think that the cabinet is made from Black Hearted Sassafrass, the woodworker's equivalent of black and white calf hide. :D ;D

Regards,

Albert

Offline Dave Rudy

  • Posts: 771
  • Coloroda Front Range, in the lee of Pikes Peak
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2007, 05:35 PM »
Black-hearted -- perish the thought!  We only use warm-hearted woods here in the US  ;D

Offline Rob McGilp

  • Posts: 430
  • Curmudgeon
    • Damn Fine Furniture
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2007, 08:16 PM »
Hi Dave,
Grab a purple texta (marking pen) give it a quick go over and call it Southern Purpleheart. ;D


Albert

Offline Terry Fogarty

  • Posts: 393
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2007, 08:49 PM »
Hi Tezzer,

That is a beautiful cabinet.  Thanks for sharing

I learned to make that joint (in my pre-domino days) with a miter saw and router table setup to cut the mortii.  Did it with the slots parallel to the faces of the legs, which makes assembly easy, but the splines (which we used in the oldend days) are short, since one cuts the mortise before mitering the legs and aprons of the table.  So assembly is easy, since you can do two pieces at a time.



Howdy Mike i would love to see one of your routered 3-ways. Even for those with out a Domi a good router jig set up would be perfect. Whats yours like? Any pics ;D ;D

I have read and tried Riks way of doing it (He actually got the idea from me as i posted it about 7 months ago on SMC and the Aussie site, so he took the idea and put it into his Solid Works computer program and came up with the one in the manual) His way is technically superior in strength to mine, but impractical if you are using it in a cabinet because as you say the 3 pieces to go together in one go. Try doing it with 4 sides or 24 miters :o

I made Riks version as a small entertainment unit a few months ago with the 3 way miters on the top 4 corners (24 individual mortices)  and Dominoed but joins on the bottom 4 rails and floating panells in the ends and top.  Dry fitting it was close to a nightmare. I ended up omitting one Domino on each join pluging it up and glueing it with West System with micro fibers for strength, then when dry drilled up through the back and inserted a dowel just to be sure to be sure.

So its a catch 22. Mine isnt as strong (but still very strong) and its very easy to assemble, and Riks is stronger but very difficult to assemble..
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Offline Ted Miller

  • Posts: 234
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2007, 12:17 PM »
Teez, Did that mitered joint square up pretty easy when you glued up?...
Miller's Wood Works

Offline Terry Fogarty

  • Posts: 393
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2007, 12:52 PM »
Both mine and Ricks were perfect. They are easier than they appear
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Offline bassman00

  • Posts: 96
  • Danbury, CT
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2007, 01:13 PM »
Impressive Tezzer!  I'll be saving this thread as I have a project or two coming up where I might want to try this joint.

Beautiful cabinet.  Wonderful use of the figure in the wood.

PaulD

Offline Ted Miller

  • Posts: 234
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2007, 01:18 PM »
Teez, Have you seen a attachment for the Domi for doing round stock or handrails in your neck of the woods? Looks like the Trim Stop but to hold round stock?...
Miller's Wood Works

Offline T. Michael

  • Posts: 63
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2007, 06:00 PM »
Hi Tezz, or is it Teez?

No pics of the setup, done at Marc Adam's school in Indiana.  This was on the last day of a week of mostly hand done joinery, and it was a 'high touch' demo.  Someone else had done all the hard work of setting up the miter saw at EXACTLY 45; with a stop, so the two 45's on each piece of wood or apron would end up exzactly at the point, and the router was a horizontal router, with a 1/4" bit, again with stops.  But, as you noted, we did this cut first, making the mortii parallel with the leg; vs Rick's (actually your) method in which each mortis is in the same plane as the leg, but perpendicular to one of hte 45 faces.

Another FOG'er and I (actually, he's a double FOG'er; being on both Felder and Festool boards) put our table together, both the dry fit, and the glue-up.  Helped to have all those hands.  First  2 joints were pretty easy, last two a bit harder. 

I was trying to picture in my mind how I would do 8 corners to get a full box frame done, but kept getting narcolepsy and falling asleep as a defense mechanism.

I think you could do it with 4 people. doing the top opposite corners on the top, and the bottom diagonally opposed corners, giving you four subassemblies; then you slide all 4 assemblies together in towards an imaginary center point.  Of course, if you have slide in panels, you better have a lot of open time in your glue or some more hands.

Best, Mike

T. Michael Ward

Offline Rocker

  • Posts: 63
  • Furniture maker, Queensland, Australia
    • Build your own rocking chair
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2007, 12:07 AM »
I have read and tried Riks way of doing it (He actually got the idea from me as i posted it about 7 months ago on SMC and the Aussie site, so he took the idea and put it into his Solid Works computer program and came up with the one in the manual) His way is technically superior in strength to mine, but impractical if you are using it in a cabinet because as you say the 3 pieces to go together in one go. Try doing it with 4 sides or 24 miters :o

I made Riks version as a small entertainment unit a few months ago with the 3 way miters on the top 4 corners (24 individual mortices)  and Dominoed but joins on the bottom 4 rails and floating panells in the ends and top.  Dry fitting it was close to a nightmare. I ended up omitting one Domino on each join pluging it up and glueing it with West System with micro fibers for strength, then when dry drilled up through the back and inserted a dowel just to be sure to be sure.

So its a catch 22. Mine isnt as strong (but still very strong) and its very easy to assemble, and Riks is stronger but very difficult to assemble..

Tezzer,

I have looked up your original thread on the Ubeaut forum, and there is no mention in it of doing the 3-way miter in the way that Rick suggests - that is, with the mortises perpendicular to the miter faces. So I think it is wrong to imply that Rick took the idea from you. Probably, he was motivated to look for a new method of making the three-way miter by your post; but that is as far as it goes. However, I agree with you that Rick's method of making the joint is not practical except for very simple pieces, like, say a coffee table. 

Rocker

Rocker
Free downloadable plans and articles on jigs and furniture on my blog:
http://rockerswoodwork.blogspot.com/

FFlowboy

  • Guest
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2007, 05:18 PM »
Rocker,

If Rick made his joint based on the idea of a dominoed 3 way mitre which Tezzer clearly demonstrated first, without using CAD software, then the initial idea is still Tezzers. Modifications using different angles and extra dominoes are still only variations on the original Tezzer theme. The idea still belongs to Tezzer in principle.

FFlowboy

  • Guest
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2007, 07:33 PM »
Rick,
1 Its FFlowboy, Rob is for my friends.
2. If the 3 way mitre was seen several years ago, it would not have been a Domino project.
3. I've said nothing about the difficulty or otherwise of your joint.
4 Tezzer actuallly made reference to his starting point, I don't believe you have.
5 And most important. As an ex editor, language should be a strong point. There are no degrees of Uniqueness.

Offline John Stevens

  • Posts: 805
  • Ardmore, PA
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2007, 10:12 PM »
Nice joint, both versions.

Regards,

John
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 10:40 PM by John Stevens »
What this world needs is a good retreat.
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Offline Terry Fogarty

  • Posts: 393
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2007, 10:26 PM »
but Lignum did not develop a 3-way miter, nor was his the first time I saw it. Ian Kirby wrote about it in the Woodworker's Journal several years ago, and as Lignum already stated, he took the idea from a recent issue of a Fine Woodworking magazine article. The method that WWJ, FWW, and Lignum used is very common and has been around for ages. This was nothing new nor unique to Lignum's cabinet.

I have never said (and i dont think Rob had either) that i developed the join. What i was saying is to my knowledge i was the first to do it with Domi (probably because we had it 12 months earlier ;D )

 If i ever make something that i have seen before i will always give reference. Its always been something that annoys me when i see people post work or ideas that they have obviously copied and wont acknowledge the original source.  :)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 11:51 PM by Tezzer »
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Offline Les Spencer

  • Posts: 487
Re: 3-way mitered Domino cabinet
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2007, 11:36 PM »
Fflowboy,

Since I'm not your friend as is Rick, COOL IT. :o What is your problem? ??? ;D
Les (near Indy) XL