Author Topic: A LR32 video. The last video of the series. Video 7 (Read 146310 times)

erock · « **Reply #150 on:** September 09, 2013, 05:52 PM »

RKA

Here is how I would build a base cabinet with multiple drawers.

The true 32 base cabinet height is 878mm. That's from the ground to the top of the cabinet box. That does not include the counter top.

Subtract 78mm from 878mm to get your 800mm side panel (a increment of 32). The 78mm is for your toe kick. 78mm is close enough for me

for a 3" toe kick.

So now that I have given myself a 800mm panel I can use that number to decide how many drawers I can get.

One example I will give you is this.

800mm divided by 5 (number of drawers) is 160mm. 160mm is an increment of 32. So I would make 5 drawer fronts 160mm MINUS a

3mm reveal for the top and bottoms of the drawer fronts. Making my drawer fronts 154mm for the height.

Then lets say my cabinet is 400mm wide, finished. I would also subtract 3mm for each side for the reveal. Making my finish cut for the drawer front

154mm in height x 394mm wide.

Now for the drawer box, normally the drawer slides need around 12mm per side for movement. I subtract 25mm for the drawer slides that I have

used in the past. So if my finish box is 400mm wide using 18mm plywood the inside of my box is 364mm. I would subtract 25mm from 364mm

giving me 339mm. Now I know that I have 339mm to work with for the width of my drawer box. The depth of the drawer box depends on the slides

I use. Say I make my cabinet 610mm (24")deep. The standard depth of a base cabinet. I would use a 510mm (20") drawer slide, because of the

way I build my cabinets. I recess the back panel of the cabinet 19mm for a nailer to go behind my back. I usually use 5mm (1/4") plywood

for the backs of the cabinets. The nailers (or some guys call them cleats) keeps my boxes square.

So now the finished drawer box would be 339mm wide by 510mm deep. The height of the drawer box I would make at most 135mm for this cabinet.

I like to subtract 25mm from the height of my drawer fronts to give me the height of my drawer box. This give me plenty of room for multiple drawers

to work together. BUT, you could make the a little bigger if you want.

Personally, 1/4" ply for the backs are fine. You're gonna screw the cabinets to the wall. Heck, you don't even need full backs if you don't want to

waste the plywood. Just put a couple nailers (cleats) across the top and bottom to keep the box square and to give you some meat to screw the

cabinet to the wall and your good. Because the cabinet is all drawers you will never see the back of the cabinet anyways.

Eric

Michael Garrett · « **Reply #151 on:** September 09, 2013, 06:44 PM »

Wouldn't the KISS II system work for this?

T.Tom · « **Reply #152 on:** September 09, 2013, 09:11 PM »

I also have learned much from your videos and watched them several times. As was stated above, we learn from what others are doing or have done and modify to fit our needs and/or variation that fits our needs. (I have thought about ways to incororate face frame methods in to the Euro style and vice vesa). I don't think anyone doubts you present a good video and you explain why and how in your presentation MUCH BETTER than some others. You may view this as your hobby, however, you obviously have a passion for your hobby. To me, the FOG is a place where the exchange of ideas is GREAT for like minded people. If you find the time Eric, please show your methods and comments in cabinet building the euro way. Some of the things that I would like to see are the types of wood, plywood, (oak, cherry, etc..), finish, (brand and/or way you apply them), types/brands of hardware and why you selected them like price or quality of brand or like we see in the background of your shop.

There are pros on this site, but everyone goes about their jobs or hobbies in different ways. I like to exchange ideas!! Harry Reasoner, (commentator on 60 Minutes), was quoted as saying "I try to stay surpised enough at life to learn something new each day".

RKA · « **Reply #153 on:** September 10, 2013, 12:21 AM »

That's awesome! You filled in all the little details that have been tripping me up and a few I didn't think about. Thank you!!!

HowardH · « **Reply #154 on:** September 15, 2013, 07:59 PM »

Although the LR32 looks great, wouldn't be a whole lot easier if you had one of these?

Easier way to bullt a cabinet

it would be whole lot cooler...

this one too!

Felder machine

erock · « **Reply #155 on:** September 15, 2013, 08:39 PM »

Quote from: HowardH on September 15, 2013, 07:59 PM

Although the LR32 looks great, wouldn't be a whole lot easier if you had one of these?

Easier way to bullt a cabinet

it would be whole lot cooler...

Howard, When do you get this machine delivered to your shop?

What size systainer would this fit in?

Eric

HowardH · « **Reply #156 on:** September 15, 2013, 08:51 PM »

well uh... er... um....

Think I'll stick to my tried and true Green!

ccarrolladams · « **Reply #157 on:** September 16, 2013, 04:36 PM »

Howard and Everyone,

Applied to appropriate tasks in a production situation, line drilling machines can be very effective. However, the stress is on Production Situation!

Back in 1946 when I started making Euro-style cabinets with adjustable shelves, there were no factory-made drill jigs with holes on 32mm centers. I was still working in a machine shop so I used a jig-boring machine to make a 1m long gig from 6mm thick aluminum. That did have replaceable drill jig inserts of I could drill 5mm or 1/4" holes. That served me well until I could purchase a slightly-used line drilling machine circa 1952.

My cabinet shops have always specialized in custom jobs, not production in quantity. Therefore in my us all line drilling machines have proven less than ideal. They were designed for factories. In the Original System 32 standards, no holes were skipped. So nearly always the 25 drills on such a machines were enough. Sometimes the outer drill bits were removed if all you needed were 23 holes. Remember, on a line drilling machine alternate drills rotate in opposite directions, so some are painted orange and others black, so the left-hand bits are put in the correct chuck.

What I found early on was that in custom work hardly ever are all the holes drilled. Most of my customers buying custom cabinets prefer there be few unnecessary holes. That means with a line drilling machine you need to manually remove the unneeded drill bits. Then, and this is very important, after the parts are made using removed bits, those must be put back on the machine. Otherwise what happens is a hole you need will be missing. Trust me, I have made that mistake many times.

Still, I used a then state-of-the-art line drilling machine in my custom cabinet shop from 1960 to 1996. It could drill two rows of up to 25 holes, with the second row adjustable from the fixed row. With that it still was necessary to remove unwanted drill bits, and then put them back correctly.

The time involved in removing bits was not an issue when you made many parts, as in production. But, in custom jobs it is rare to be making more than a handful of identical parts at a time. It is frustrating to remove and then re-install all those drill bits.

So in 2006 when I decided to start another custom cabinet business I felt the Festool LR32 approach made a lot of sense. All I needed to do was make a pencil mark so I could skip holes I did not need. Using Festool Holy rails, an OF1010 and LR32 system I could make accurately 6 identical custom parts as fast as using a line drill after removing bits.

When I build my current shop I bought two CNC routers. I do use those for adjustable hole drilling when other CNC tasks are being done on a particular part. If the only holes are for shelf pins, I can do that as fast with a Holy rail, OF1010 and the LR32 system.

Sure, if you do decide to buy a Line Drill, those made by Felder are very good and fairly priced. But you should also talk to Stiles, a firm that makes many kinds of line drills. But for such a factory you would need pressure beam saws and similar factory-style machines.

HowardH · « **Reply #158 on:** September 16, 2013, 05:02 PM »

Actually, I was trying to be very tongue and cheek about it...

ccarrolladams · « **Reply #159 on:** September 16, 2013, 06:00 PM »

Quote from: HowardH on September 16, 2013, 05:02 PM

Actually, I was trying to be very tongue and cheek about it...

Howard, actually I assumed you were being tongue-in-cheek, but The FOG being global it is entirely possible some might think owning a sophisticated line drilling machine would solve their problems.

My intention in responding is to explain the limitations as well as benefits of line drilling machines. Used appropriately in a factory they do a marvelous job, but they are labor-intensive in tasks when holes must be skipped. In a custom shop one constraint is that you prefer to assemble cases as soon as possible once the parts are prepared. In a factory it is possible to make a month's worth of parts at a time for assembly as needed. so if it takes several minutes changing a set-up on a line drill, it is not a big deal. In custom work repeat that set-up time a few times an hour is hardly reasonable.

Probably in a factory it would be hard to afford the labor to use the Festool LR32 system. yet in a home or professional custom cabinet shop the LR32 system can be a real money-maker, along-side CNC machines.

HowardH · « **Reply #160 on:** September 18, 2013, 11:02 PM »

Not to mention it would take a long time to amortize a $100,000+ machine unless one had a high production shop big enough to make a big Format 4 payout. Of course, some folks who have an unlimited budget like that doctor I saw I believe on SMC who had six figures in Felder, etc. equipment and it looked like it had never been used. Maybe I saw it originally in Fine Woodworking but wherever it was, it was top shelf.

hghesser · « **Reply #161 on:** September 28, 2013, 05:14 PM »

Excellent and very well presented, Eric. I learned a lot.

fidelfs · « **Reply #162 on:** September 28, 2013, 08:36 PM »

Eric,

Great video, keep making them!

Papajoe · « **Reply #163 on:** October 24, 2013, 06:51 PM »

Thank you for making and posting these video's. I'm a "newer" woodworker, and really learnt allot from them. I have a question to the reference of video#4 where the of1400 dust collector wouldn't work with the 35mm cutter, unless a modified? does anyone know if the of1010 dust collector works with the 35mm bit "stock" configuration? or what needs to be done to make it work???
thanks

NERemodeling · « **Reply #164 on:** October 24, 2013, 11:43 PM »

Quote from: Papajoe on October 24, 2013, 06:51 PM

Thank you for making and posting these video's. I'm a "newer" woodworker, and really learnt allot from them. I have a question to the reference of video#4 where the of1400 dust collector wouldn't work with the 35mm cutter, unless a modified? does anyone know if the of1010 dust collector works with the 35mm bit "stock" configuration? or what needs to be done to make it work???
thanks

my 1010 works with the 35mm bit just fine without mods, mine is an older unit so im not sure if they have changed the shroud. the 1400 shroud extends up vertically from the base then returns in horizontally towards the router bit, the shroud on mine is like a cylinder with no top or bottom

to be sure, just make sure that there is at least a 35mm hole through your dust shroud

hope that helps

John

Papajoe · « **Reply #165 on:** October 25, 2013, 08:11 AM »

thanks john, i appreciate the input. it helps allot. where i live, has no festool dealer, and the closest is 1.5 hours away. thats not so bad, but when there, no one knows much about the festool system. the store owner said they will never stock a lr32 system, because there is no demand for it; they had 1 request 2 years ago, in 5 years of business. i wanted to see an of2200, "we dont stock it because our market doesn't need or use it". ct48, same thing. being new to the festool system, it would be nice to actually see the product, and talk to rep's have working knowledge of the system. thanks to some great input from a traveling festool rep(danny) i did manage to get my first order placed for of2200, mft/3, ct vac, and cms. I wonder if I have to buy "blind", and get questions answered only by festool employees, if i'm better off finding a good online dealer? save the sales tax, and free shipping? just thinking about it, $3800 first order, 2 trips x 3hours r.t., gas and over $200 sales tax.

thank you again,
joseph

Glenn Wilson · « **Reply #166 on:** November 24, 2013, 10:08 AM »

Great Videos Eric, I have owned the system for quite sometime but have not had the time to put into the learning curve of using it , the information will certainly save a lot of time if not materials experimenting . Thanks again well done!

Lance Wroblewski · « **Reply #167 on:** December 28, 2013, 08:23 PM »

The main reason I bought the LR-32 System was due to Eric's videos!

Great stuff Eric.

New to the FOG, trying to get 5 post so I can add a link in my post for the video contest.

Lance.

EvilNuff · « **Reply #168 on:** January 25, 2014, 06:48 PM »

Slight thread necromancy but I wanted to say great videos, thanks for making them! I definitely recommend them to anyone learning LR32!

coug · « **Reply #169 on:** July 14, 2014, 08:53 PM »

I am somewhat of a newbie to the festool world and was trying to decide between the Festool, Veritas and other systems for a series of cabinets and mobile tool storage carts. The videos have sold me! I have wanted the 1010 for edge trimming and everyday use, just another reason to get the order in. Thanks for putting together such a great series!

Cam101 · « **Reply #170 on:** July 23, 2014, 01:42 PM »

Great videos Eric, thanks a lot for putting in the effort to make them.

I am slowly converting all my power tools over to Festool and your videos are making the transition easier. The true 32 system was a mystery to me but now i'll be attempting it on my next cabinet build.

Gordon Bombay · « **Reply #171 on:** January 21, 2016, 06:38 PM »

Eric,

I realize that I am resurrecting an old thread, but I just wanted to say thank you for these videos. They have been incredible. I can only imagine how many LR32 systems have been sold because of your work.

Thanks again,
Mark

dutchie · « **Reply #172 on:** January 24, 2016, 05:12 AM »

Hear hear! I managed to start using my LR32 the minute I got it without glancing at a manual for even a second thanks to these video's! 16 up and out!

DTSaskatoon · « **Reply #173 on:** February 24, 2016, 08:41 AM »

I downloaded and watched ALL the videos BEFORE I decided to buy the LR32 system. The videos were great and if you offered a small LR32 workbook, I would definitely buy it. Thanks for helping me understand the system!

anthonyz · « **Reply #174 on:** February 24, 2016, 09:59 AM »

Quote from: DTSaskatoon on February 24, 2016, 08:41 AM

I downloaded and watched ALL the videos BEFORE I decided to buy the LR32 system. The videos were great and if you offered a small LR32 workbook, I would definitely buy it. Thanks for helping me understand the system!

Erock's videos have been a great learning resource. I was kind of lost on the LR32 until I watched his videos. (Thanks Eric!) You might like to look at LR32 End Stop for Blum Hardware and Blum Process32 about the blum process 32. There is a PDF in the thread about how to standardize cabinets using the 32mm system. It has all the dimensions for layout of cabinets. The start and stops are a little different than the stops created by Festool, but it's a good starting point and the stop created by Matt at the tread is great if you want to completely adopt the blum 32mm process to standardize your cabinets. I like having a resource to go to and works well.

dadswoodshop · « **Reply #175 on:** November 23, 2017, 07:40 PM »

Quote from: erock on September 09, 2013, 05:52 PM

800mm divided by 5 (number of drawers) is 160mm. 160mm is an increment of 32. So I would make 5 drawer fronts 160mm MINUS a

3mm reveal for the top and bottoms of the drawer fronts. Making my drawer fronts 154mm for the height.

Then lets say my cabinet is 400mm wide, finished. I would also subtract 3mm for each side for the reveal. Making my finish cut for the drawer front

154mm in height x 394mm wide.

Eric,

A little late but...

Something i cant wrap my head around is the reveal/gap: wanting a 3mm gap between the drawer faces, if you took 3mm off the tops AND bottoms of each face, wouldn't that leave you with a 6mm gap between each face?

I'm sure there is a simple answer and it's right in front of my face but I just can't seem to get it. Driving me crazy!

Thanks for the videos. I've watched them a few times and I'm starting to get the hang of it. Just can't get past this one part.

Bohdan · « **Reply #176 on:** November 23, 2017, 07:55 PM »

@mwbrewster

Agree. The draw front should be 157mm x 394mm to get a 3mm gap between the drawers.

android · « **Reply #177 on:** December 18, 2017, 03:50 PM »

I'm still in the figuring out how to design this thing stage, so no big mistakes have been made. (Give me time)

If I want a 3cm silestone counter top to be at 36" that is 914.4mm. Let's call it 914mm.

Subtract the 30mm for the countertop and I'm at 884mm, then I can do 25x32 to get a 800mm tall carcass. I then add a 84mm toe kick and I've got a metric cabinet that's very close to the expected 36" height in the US.

Am I leaving out any layers in this stack?

Thanks!

Sparktrician · « **Reply #178 on:** December 18, 2017, 06:02 PM »

Quote from: android on December 18, 2017, 03:50 PM

I'm still in the figuring out how to design this thing stage, so no big mistakes have been made. (Give me time)

If I want a 3cm silestone counter top to be at 36" that is 914.4mm. Let's call it 914mm.

Subtract the 30mm for the countertop and I'm at 884mm, then I can do 25x32 to get a 800mm tall carcass. I then add a 84mm toe kick and I've got a metric cabinet that's very close to the expected 36" height in the US.

Am I leaving out any layers in this stack?

Thanks!

I'm going to suggest that you make the casework a multiple of 32mm + 19mm so that you can use the LR 32 to line-bore the casework sides. You can then size the toekick such that it sets the top at the desired overall height. In your case, the closest increment would be 883mm which would allow for 27 32mm pattern sets (vertically). I've attached my spreadsheet that might be helpful for you.