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Author Topic: Can you cut Soapstone with TS55?  (Read 10869 times)
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jsepul

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« on: January 13, 2008, 01:19 PM »

Soapstone can be cut with a carbide blade, however its best to use a masonry blade(I assume diamond?). Does anyone know if the Festool carbide blade can be used to cut this material? Do they sell a diamond or masonry blade? Since its a soft stone, creates alot of dust, and a perfectly straight line is needed, I want to use my Festool TS55! Just cant figure out the blade part. Someone help please!

Thanks

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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2008, 01:32 PM »

  We have talked about cutting stone/masonry products before, the consensus was, it's not a good idea. Festool doesn't make a masonry/diamond blade (that I know of). The dust from stone/masonry products is very abrasive stuff, that can be harmful to the saw.
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Tom Bainbridge

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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2008, 03:42 PM »

festool do make a blade that can be used for abrasive "concrete / cement" based products

but id take advice from festool as to if they were suitable for a stone even a stone as soft as soap stone
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jsepul

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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2008, 09:29 PM »

Thanks for the replies. I think I will just make a cutting jig and use my old skil saw with a cheapo masonry blade.

Its an interesting internal conflict. I find myself trying to find anything and everything to use my Festool tools on. At least I can make the jig with my Festools!

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Madtown Rob

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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2008, 04:15 PM »

It really does cut pretty easy with just a segmented "turbo" diamond blade in a circular saw. I bought a 6-7" one from Harbor Freight for $10 and a 4" one for my right anghle grinder to do the sink cut out.  Messy and cuts very well.  Clean up the edges with a 60-grit in a belt sander, then RO working from 80 to 180 or 200 to gut the rest of the scratches out.

 I remodeled my sisters kitchen and installed the new soapstone. I had a piece of aluminum angle that I used as the straight edge for the straight cuts and made a template for the under mount sink.  I used a 1/2" router with a pattern bit to complete the shape of the cut out.  Get a good respirator because you end up making talc from the cuts - cut it outside! I was going to do the sink cut out inside - but we ended up not being able to carry the slab - so luckily we did it outside - my sister would still be cleaning up the mess inside if we had cut it there!

 Here are a few pictures before it was oiled.

-R


* Coounter tops 017.jpg (59.98 KB, 640x480 - viewed 636 times.)

* Coounter tops 024.jpg (60.42 KB, 640x480 - viewed 653 times.)

* Coounter tops 031.jpg (44 KB, 640x480 - viewed 690 times.)

* Coounter tops 041.jpg (43.81 KB, 640x480 - viewed 699 times.)
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jsepul

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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2008, 09:37 PM »

Rob,

Thanks for your reply. Its great to have people out there such as yourself who take a minute to help someone out. Your tips are very useful.

The installation looks great also! I may end up sending you a message when I start to get some more insider tips.

Thanks again for your advice!
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Tinker

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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2008, 10:01 AM »

Rob, that is a great job. 

When i first went into mason biz, i cut everything the old fashioned way with hand tools.  that just took too long to meet competition, so i bought a cheapo circular saw and some abraisive type (carborundum) disc blades.  i burned out the saw on the first job.  For the next job, and the next, and so on, i kept trying other makes and burned them up very quickly.  I finally stopped in to my supplier of rental machinery and told them my problem. 

We talked for a while and they told me others were having the same problems and they did not like to rent out their "skill " saws for any type of mason work. (since most of their clientelle were masons, they must have had quite a lot of problem.  Eventually, after many many visits, the help started referring to me as "The Non-Latin Mason"  Some of my friends called me, and still do "Tinkerelli") Roll Eyes  i asked to look over all of their hand saws and we took every one down off the shelf and looked them over very carefully.  If you look at almost every hand type circular saw, there is a sort of vent hole to cool the armature.  that vent on all but one was right down beside the blade arbor.  i determined that even tho a whole lot of dust became airborne, there was still a certain amount that would get sucked in to the armature.

We finally looked over the Milwaukee 8-1/4" and immediately, i decided that was the saw to get.  It also had that vent hole, but it was way around at the far side of the armature and brushes.  it was the most expensive "carpenters" saw they had but i had had my fill of loading up the landfill with the el cheapos.  That saw eventually lasted for just over 30 years until it finally caught fire (from inside somewhere) and just burned up.  I never used it for anything but solid masonry or "dirty" lumber that had been used for concrete forms or scaffolding.  It cut all types of stone, brick, concrete and cinder blocks and lumber full of concrete and nails.

Another thing i always advise about cutting any masonry is to do as Rob is doing.  Protect lungs and eyes.  That masonry dust will get into everything plus places that aren't even things and you don't even know they've been invented yet.  Dangerous stuff.  I not only used face and eye protection, but usually set up a fan to blow the dust away before it could rise to my face.

I have said before within previous discussions, I would NOT use my Festool saw for any type of masonry cutting, no matter what sort of blade i was using.  I seem to have a recollection that Festool will not honor their warrantee if the saw has been cutting masonry.  That is not a direct quote, just something that settled among the dust in the back of my head.  If i am wrong on this, my apologies to Festool; but if i were in the business, i would not warrantee any type of woodworking saw that was used for cutting masonry>>> period
Tinker 
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Wayne H. Tinker
Ned

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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2008, 01:35 PM »

I think this is as close as Festool gets to what you're looking for.  Of course, it's NAINA.  The guide rail is different from the standard design.
From Festool UK's website:



Building materials saw AXT 50 LA-Plus     Order number: 561860     
technical data
Power consumption    750 W
Saw blade speed    210 min?
Saw blade diameter    170 mm
Inclination    0-45 ?
Cutting depth    0-47 mm
Cutting depth at 45 degrees    0-30 mm
Cutting depth at 90?/45?    0-30/0-47 mm
Connection ? d/e    27/36 mm
Weight    6,4 kg
   
Scope of delivery:
?    special HW carbide tipped saw blade
?    operation tool
   
Price
exc. VAT
742,00 GBP


Strengths and benefits

    * Closed extraction hood with sealing brush for clean, dust-free work
    * High torque at low speeds for hard materials
    * Accurate, dust-protected roller guide on special guide rail

Main applications

    * Cutting hard and extremely hard building panels
    * Cutting cement-bonded board to size
    * Cutting cement-bonded silicate panels
    * Cutting cement-bonded chipboard to length
    * Cutting fibre cement panels
    * Cutting synthetic-resin bonded panels
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 01:38 PM by Ned Young » Logged
Forrest Anderson

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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2008, 04:44 PM »

said before within previous discussions, I would NOT use my Festool saw for any type of masonry cutting, no matter what sort of blade i was using.  I seem to have a recollection that Festool will not honor their warrantee if the saw has been cutting masonry.  That is not a direct quote, just something that settled among the dust in the back of my head.  If i am wrong on this, my apologies to Festool; but if i were in the business, i would not warrantee any type of woodworking saw that was used for cutting masonry>>> period


That would appear to be the case. The US Instruction Manual states:

Use for intended purpose
The hand-operated circular saw TS 55 EQ is designed exclusively
for the sawing of wood, wood-like materials and plastics.
With the special saw blades for aluminium offered by Festool,
these machines can also be used for sawing aluminium.
The machine should not be converted or modifi ed, e.g. for any
other form of use, other than as specifi ed in these operating
instructions.
The user shall be liable for damages and accidents resulting
from incorrect use.

Festool Limited Warranty
This warranty is valid on the pre-condition that the tool is
used and operated in compliance with the Festool operating
instructions.


Interestingly, the instructions also mention the procedure for cutting the following:

D) Sawing plaster and cement-bonded fibre boards
Due to the high build-up of dust, using a cover (accessories)
that is mounted on the side of the protective cover is recommended.


I reckon that cutting soapstone is definitely forbidden!

Forrest


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Forrest Anderson

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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2008, 05:50 AM »

Soapstone can be cut with a carbide blade, however its best to use a masonry blade(I assume diamond?). Does anyone know if the Festool carbide blade can be used to cut this material? Do they sell a diamond or masonry blade? Since its a soft stone, creates alot of dust, and a perfectly straight line is needed, I want to use my Festool TS55! Just cant figure out the blade part. Someone help please!


I have just noticed that the Festool USA Knowledgebase now has an answer...!

Question:
Can I cut soapstone with the TS55 or TS75? What blade should I use?
 
Answer:
The TS55 and TS75 were developed primarily for wood working applications.

The highly invasive and abrasive stone dust generated when cutting this material invades every nook and cranny on the saw and shortens its working life.

For this reason, we do not make diamond blades for these saws.


It's never been confirmed, but I strongly suspect that Festool USA watches this forum and updates the database based on the questions that get asked here!

Forrest

« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 09:35 AM by Forrest Anderson » Logged

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Forrest Anderson

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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2009, 09:30 AM »

This thread is rather elderly, but I'm going to resurrect it because I've got an update...

This afternoon I discovered a new brochure on the Australian Festool website entitled Quick clean cuts, no dust TS55 Cement Sheet Sawing System

This uses a new diamond blade (160x2,2/1,6x20 Z 8, Order No 504573-79-3) which is apparently...

Perfect for cutting:
Fibre Cement Sheet
Blueboard
Plasterboard
Villaboard
Hardipanel
Compressed Concrete Sheet, up to 15mm



Issue 4 of the Australian Festool Facts also mentions the new diamond cutting system:



As can be seen, the price of the new diamond blade is 236.50 AUD (incl GST). For comparison, this is just over twice the price of the 491952 Fine 48-tooth blade that normally comes with the TS55 which is 109.45 AUD.


Forrest
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 09:45 AM by Forrest Anderson » Logged

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Oyvind

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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2009, 06:17 PM »

I'm currently in the process of putting new siding on my house.  The siding is a product known as Steni - http://www.steni.com/ - 5mm fiberglass with a crushed flintstone facing.

I bought the TS55 specifically to cut this material, I use a special diamond blade (at least I think it's diamond, may be carbide though).  I bought it second hand, so don't know the brand of the blade.

Point is, if you think soapstone is agressive, try sending crushed flint and fiberglass through the saw.  Needless to say, the TS55 has absolutely no problems with this mix.  It is important to use the vacuum, though, to avoid unnecessary accumulation of dust in the saw.
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2009, 06:39 PM »

Oyvind,

I went to their website.  Pretty cool stuff - but requires a contemporary building to look right in my opinion. ( I like contemporary!)

Question:  Are sparks created in the cutting process?  Just asking because of the paper bag in the CT.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 06:40 PM by peter halle » Logged

The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.
Oyvind

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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2009, 06:26 AM »

I haven't observed any sparks, so don't think that is a problem.  I don't have the CT (yet).  I use a POS Karcher dry/wet vacuum that has a permanent home outside in the rain in the hope that it will soon die.  Unfortunately, rain seems to be the one thing it handles rather well  Roll Eyes

A few notes about my project.  I live in Bergen, Norway, aka 'Rain City'.  The house was built in 1964 and has rendered brick walls.  Unfortunately, this is not a very good construction in this climate.  Rain water will quite readily permeate the rendering and bricks, leading to humidity and mold problems inside the house.  There were also some problems with cracks in various places that lead to even more water getting inside the walls.

Adding up to the problems, previous owners have used just about any (cheap) paint they could get hold of, some of which were absolutely not the correct formulation for a rendered wall.  Basically, if I was to repair the rendering the paint first had to be removed.  I received some quotes for sandblasting and repairing the walls and they were quite disheartening  Eek!

I spoke with some carpenter friends, one of whom is a building inspector for a large housing coop.  He told me they had buildings that had been sided with Steni since the late '60s, and the siding still looked as good today as the day they put it on.  Everyone I've spoken to agree that Steni is the best siding in the market.  Period.  The panels are 100% maintenance free but for a power washing every 3-5 years to remove the green algae and moss that easily form in this wet climate .  

In fact, the manufacturer is so confident of their product that the panels come with a 25 year warranty!  The one problem I've heard of with Steni is that it is next to impossible to remove graffitti from panels with a stone surface.  But since the panels are fastened with screws, it is very easy to simply replace them.

WRP using the TS55 for cutting Steni panels, it is generally acknowledged as THE saw to use for this job among the professional contractors.  Since all cuts are fully visible when mounting Steni, precise cutting is very important for a good result.

Below are a few pictures of my house.  Pls excuse the mess, this is still very much a construction site...

Click on the pics to see the full-size version.  Pls note that the color balance is a little off and that makes the panels appear a little purple/pink, which they are not.


« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 06:55 AM by Oyvind » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2009, 08:28 AM »

Oyvind,

Thanks for the post and the pictures.  How are the joints between adjacent pieces handled?  I looks like there is a piece of flashing in the shape of a z flattened out where they stack on top of each other.

Peter
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2009, 11:01 AM »

Oyvind, I'll echo Peter's comments, thanks for posting. I've never heard of Steni before, it looks like a nice product. I'd like to hear more about how you install it.
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Oyvind

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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2009, 11:10 AM »

Here's a pic that shows the wall I'm currently working on.


The panels I have are 120cm wide by 300cm high, but they can be ordered in pretty much any size and shape you desire.  The panels are mounted side-by-side on planks (would you call them studs?) that are spaced 60cm CC.  On the upper and lower end there are smaller studs at 30cm CC to avoid the 'hungry dog'  look since the panels are quite flexible.  The panels are mounted so that air can freely circulate behind them, which means leaving some free room at the top and bottom when mounting.

It is very important that the studs are in the same plane.  Since the render on my walls is quite uneven, and the house has some sag to boot, every plank has to be carefully shimmed to line up on the vertical plane.  I use 3mm fiberboard that I rip and break into suitable lengths for shims.  They can be easily split with a knife for fine adjustment.

As you can see, I've mounted new shale plates under the windows.  Next week I'll order aluminum 'Z' profiles that are mounted to the sides and top of the window opening.  I glue these with Tec-7 (great stuff...)

Next, each plank is faced with a 50mm wide strip of white rubber-like material.  Then the panels are mounted side-by-side with a 5mm spacing between the panels.  This is where the rubber strip is important, since it acts as a seal and weatherproofing in the vertical gaps between the panels.

On the horizontal joints, an 'h'-formed aluminum profile is slipped over the lower panel to form a weatherproof joint.  Corners are also formed with a special aluminum profile.  The screws are stainless steel with white powder-coated heads.

Steni is by no means a cheap siding, but it is a very long-lasting one.  I'm looking at material costs that are pretty close to $100/m2, and I'm doing pretty much all the work myself with some help from a carpenter neighbor.  For comparison, the quotes for restoring the cement rendering and painting were close to double, and I would still have to paint the house every few years and deal with any new cracks.  With this investment, I expect future maintenance to be next to nothing   Smiley
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mhoy

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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2009, 11:48 AM »

Oyvind: Thanks for the pictures, keep them coming as this is pretty interesting stuff you are working with.

Mark
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2009, 12:01 PM »

Oyvind: Thanks for the pictures, keep them coming as this is pretty interesting stuff you are working with.

Mark

Please do.  I find it interesting that the horizontal joints are joined with an H profile.  I suppose that it would help counter the flexibility of the product, but unless the siding fit extremely tight in it, it could become a channel for water.  I guess with the air space behind the risk wouldn't be much.  Also with the make up of the product being of a non-absorbing material, having the ends potentially sit in a little water would not be detrimental.

Goes to show that it can be the little details that be the difference between success and failure - especially in the long term.

Thanks for the great post.  Keep us informed as to your progress.

Peter
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2009, 12:35 PM »

I may have mis-formulated myself WRT the 'h'-profile.  The 'h' is mounted the 'right' way, with the gap in the 'h' down and the long leg of the 'h' against the wall.  I.e. the lower row of panels are mounted, then the 'h' is slipped over the TOP of the panels.  The next row of panels are then mounted over the top of the 'h', thus making a weatherproof joint that sheds the water.

Although I don't expect much water at all to enter behind the panels, what little may get behind them will just run down the back of the panels. No water - or a very small amount - will reach the actual wall.  The planks I use for mounting the panels are regular, cheap pressure-treated patio decking, so they should last for a quite long time.

Methinks perhaps I should start a new thread in the 'Member Projects' section and document the progress from now on...
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2009, 12:40 PM »

I read your post gain and you used "h".  I have never seen a profile like that and wrongly assumed "H" which I have seen.

Peter
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.
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