Author Topic: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products  (Read 2269 times)

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Offline schneems

  • Posts: 14
Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« on: February 23, 2017, 01:06 PM »
I have CT 48 dust extractor and several festool products to go with it, but my whole shop isn't festool (due to money, not desire). I want to hook it up to other dust producing things such as a porter cable belt sander and this dust attachment for a dewalt router https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DNP616-Compact-Collection-Adapter/dp/B004AJ95FI/ref=cm_cd_al_qh_dp_t.

Are there any good general purpose fitting kits that I can get and expect a reasonable chance that it will be compatible with a future tool or do I have to measure every new tool and spend an hour googling for the right adapter?

Basically i've been looking at the "dust right" small port hose adapters but I don't know how well that works with festool dust extractors.

Do you have a "dust connector kit" you use and recommend or do you buy each connector piecemeal? If you buy each individually where do you like to shop for them?

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Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1948
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 01:14 PM »
I hear and feel your frustration.... [wink]
I tend to use something from Rockler or Woodcraft if I need to adapt a non- Festool tool for dust extraction. My other 'go to' fitting has been the infamous 3 step adapter fitting from Fein tools, they're usually really cheap and you  don't mind too much cutting one up to get the size nozzle fitting out of it for the tool dust port on a non - Festool tool. The part number and the fitting itself has changed for the Fein 3 step hose adapter, but I hear it's still for sale and still reasonable.  It was 921072K13, I think, but that's been discontinued.  Rockler shows the new one under their part number of 50078, and states Feins' # as 31345079010
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 06:19 PM by leakyroof »
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1683
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 03:24 PM »
@schneems Rockler sells a Universal Small Dust Port Hose Kit (Rockler #48212) on sale right now for $29.99. I don't own it, but it's my understanding that it works well for other tools which might need adapting, including from Festool to other brands. I only read a few reviews but they were positive indicating that the adapter problem was solved for these people. That might work for you also. If you can't easily tell from the description online at rockler.com call their tool free number. I don't buy much online from them, but have always found them to be helpful with information.
Randy

Offline schneems

  • Posts: 14
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2017, 03:57 PM »
Thanks! That's the set I had my eye on. There are plenty of reviews on the rockler page that mention it being a perfect fit for the festool hose, not sure why I didn't check those reviews first. I picked up a set and a few knick knacks to get the free shipping.

Any idea if these connectors not being anti-static will cause problems? It doesn't explicitly say they are conductive. I don't really understand the conditions where you have to have anti-static hoses and connectors and where they're optional. It seems that when you connect to a festool device (domino, tracksaw, etc.) you ALWAYS have to have an antistatic connection, not sure why connecting to a porter cable belt sander would be different.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1948
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2017, 06:24 PM »
Thanks! That's the set I had my eye on. There are plenty of reviews on the rockler page that mention it being a perfect fit for the festool hose, not sure why I didn't check those reviews first. I picked up a set and a few knick knacks to get the free shipping.

Any idea if these connectors not being anti-static will cause problems? It doesn't explicitly say they are conductive. I don't really understand the conditions where you have to have anti-static hoses and connectors and where they're optional. It seems that when you connect to a festool device (domino, tracksaw, etc.) you ALWAYS have to have an antistatic connection, not sure why connecting to a porter cable belt sander would be different.
. Using a Anti-static hose from the tool to your Festool Vac gives you a static dissipate path as long as the Vac is grounded at the outlet it's plugged into. Some dust ports on Festool's are metal and some are plastic. Haven't seen a performance issue between the two styles, so I'd say the hose and Vac are doing all the work with regards to static dissipation.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1683
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2017, 08:29 PM »
Thanks! That's the set I had my eye on. There are plenty of reviews on the rockler page that mention it being a perfect fit for the festool hose, not sure why I didn't check those reviews first. I picked up a set and a few knick knacks to get the free shipping.

Any idea if these connectors not being anti-static will cause problems? It doesn't explicitly say they are conductive. I don't really understand the conditions where you have to have anti-static hoses and connectors and where they're optional. It seems that when you connect to a festool device (domino, tracksaw, etc.) you ALWAYS have to have an antistatic connection, not sure why connecting to a porter cable belt sander would be different.

@schneems I reread some of the answers to questions about this product on the Rockler site. One of the answers implied the hose was anti-static. The description on the site doesn't say whether the nozzles and the hose are or aren't anti-static, but that doesn't mean they isn't. I would call Rockler and ask. They may be able to tell you. It's likely it isn't the first time that question has come up. Some of the reviews indicate use with Festool CT's. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean that there are no problems with it, just that those people that used it didn't have any. I have a non-antistatic Festool hose I bought for use with my Fein and have used it with my CT also, with no problems. I don't know why Festool sells non-antistatic hoses if they can't be used with their vacs. I think the description of the non-antistatic hose on the Festool site even says it can be used with Festool CT's and other tools.
Randy

Online Bohdan

  • Posts: 772
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2017, 08:38 PM »
I don't know why Festool sells non-antistatic hoses if they can't be used with their vacs.

The non-antistatic hoses are designed to be used as a regular vac for cleaning up or when connected to equipment that is already earthed.

Offline schneems

  • Posts: 14
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2017, 12:05 PM »
So I think I understand a bit more about why it's needed in some cases but not others. I'm going to describe what i think is going on, maybe you can help me clear up any points that I am missing.

The festool tools that they sell are not grounded, they only have two prongs in the plugs, this is fine in normal operation however when a large static charge is present it can overload a tool's circuits and fry something. Removing dust via vacuum generates static electricity, so festool solved the problem by providing a ground path through the extraction tube instead of via a physical electrical connection via the power cable.

So the danger is to the tool being used, not to the dust extractor. Therefore you can safely use a non-static hose while doing things like vacuuming the floor or using it on a tool that has 3 plugs instead of just 2 since it is already grounded. Therefore it should be safe using a 3rd party adaptor on a 3rd party tool since that tool didn't require the dust collection to be ground anyway.

Not totally sure if that's 100% right but that's what i've deduced from everything i've read on the internet. Thanks for all your replies by the way.

Some things I don't understand:

- Why was this done? It seems safer and easier to add a ground to the cord? I could see this being a cost savings thing, but other than that I don't imagine any other benifit to the end user of doing things this way.

- How do festool tools work with other non-festool dust extractors, or do they just not?

- Wouldn't the tools also generate static electricity without dust collection? This would mean using a track saw or sander without dust collection could fry the tool. Or is it just that the process of dust extraction provides much much greater amounts?

All-in-all it seems that festool provides very little information here other than just "don't do it" (i.e. don't use any hose other than anti-static). It would be nice if they provided some more specifics of the why, so we can be extra sure when we hit edge cases like this.


Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5433
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2017, 12:18 PM »
LOTS of misconceptions in this thread about the use of anti-static.

The anti-static hoses are not there to protect the tool, they're meant to protect YOU as the user from having the discomfort of getting shocked when you touch the hose.

You can use any hose with a Festool vac, anti-static as well as the non anti-static hoses. The tools and the vac are protected anyway because they're double insulated.


Offline schneems

  • Posts: 14
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2017, 11:07 AM »
@Alex if thats the case then whats up with reports of the dust deputy "frying" electronics? For example from this thread http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/toasted-ct22-motor-module-(thanks-to-dust-deputy)-!/

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1948
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2017, 11:39 AM »
@Alex if thats the case then whats up with reports of the dust deputy "frying" electronics? For example from this thread http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/toasted-ct22-motor-module-(thanks-to-dust-deputy)-!/
  The units did not correctly allow static electricity in some cases to be passed onto the Vacs so that the Vacs could ground the static like in a normal Festool set-up.  Dust Deputy/Oneida handed out a kit to correct the issue but I think argued with Festool on their product being the culprit of static damage.
 I was an early adopter of the Ultimate DD from Oneida and never damaged any of my Festool vacs while using the original DD kit from Oneida.
HOWEVER, I also never used the hose they provided with the DD to connect the  DD to the Vac. Instead, I used the anti-static 50mm Boom Hose as it's known, and never had an issue.
 Later, Oneida sent the kit that I and others installed on our Ultimate DDs, but I still didn't use the newest hose from Oneida since my 50mm Boom Arm Hose works perfectly for the set-up already.
 Again, for me, it's keeping a conductive path from the tool through a vac and to ground to help prevent static electricity being an issue. I choose Festool products and their AS hoses for that except for the  small diameter hand sanding hose that Festool offers for the Hand sanding Blocks/Pads. 
Haven't had any static issues with hand sanding and using a non-Anti Static hose in that portion of my work.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1683
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2017, 01:21 PM »
@leakyroof  I've never had a problem regardless of using antistatic or non=antistatic Festool hoses. However, for me, @schneems last question isn't really answered. If the point is to keep the conductive path continuous, then, unless I'm misunderstanding, the non-antistatic hose wouldn't do that. Again, I use antistatic hoses with my CT and, regardless, never had a problem when I used a Festool non-antistatic hose I owned before getting the CT. I'm just curious about this particular issue since it has come up before without complete answers. I'm not an electrician although have played one in my own shop at times without problem.
Randy

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5433
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 02:11 PM »
@Alex if thats the case then whats up with reports of the dust deputy "frying" electronics? For example from this thread http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/toasted-ct22-motor-module-(thanks-to-dust-deputy)-!/

With the way the dust deputy works, a cyclone that circulates air inside the box, it is imaginable how that can build a static charge that's a lot bigger than those that occur with normal use. There comes a point where a charge can become so big it can harm anything.

But that aside, apart from some anecdotes going around, is there any real evidence the dust deputy caused the electronics to fry?

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1948
Re: Connecting CT 48 Dust Extractor to Non-Festool products
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2017, 09:48 PM »
@leakyroof  I've never had a problem regardless of using antistatic or non=antistatic Festool hoses. However, for me, @schneems last question isn't really answered. If the point is to keep the conductive path continuous, then, unless I'm misunderstanding, the non-antistatic hose wouldn't do that. Again, I use antistatic hoses with my CT and, regardless, never had a problem when I used a Festool non-antistatic hose I owned before getting the CT. I'm just curious about this particular issue since it has come up before without complete answers. I'm not an electrician although have played one in my own shop at times without problem.
. I can't speak for Festool's thoughts on AS hoses versus Non- AS hoses.  So, I only add my experiences.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....