Author Topic: domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos  (Read 6242 times)

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Offline aafoote

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domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos
« on: April 05, 2010, 11:36 PM »
I'm stuck- right? I was going to assemble a box using 4 mm dominos, but without accurate indexing it's not going to be precise. Oh- I guess I should "enlarge the end of each mortise with a drill so the pin will fit in. Other solution buy one of those $95 multi-indexing plates I guess.  [eek]

(note I have the older round pins)
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Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2010, 12:26 AM »
You can mark the work pieces and use the alignment marks. Unless you were trying to rationalize another tool, in which case, you could get the new fence and Rick's accessory... [eek]


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Offline aafoote

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Re: domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2010, 11:01 AM »
I decided that "marking and sighting" would have caused me to botch the job. But perhaps not, if I limit using many of the dominos. I'll try it. That way I can keep going on this small project ( "freightbox" for Kapex extension set or other Festool accessories- for packing into an extended cab pickup)

meanwhile, it sounds like the new fence is needed. Thanks for the tip. Rick's accessory looks nice too - you being right about "new tool syndrome".  I emailed him and look forward to learning more about what his device could help me do (advanced rationalization technique)  [eek]
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Offline Wood_Junkie

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Re: domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2010, 11:40 AM »
It is indeed a big bummer that the pins cannot fit in the 4mm mortises...

Just index off the ends to create your alignment anchors (e.g. one tight mortise 37mm from each end).
Then use the medium slot width setting to create the mortises for your pencil-marked locations.  This will allow for any imprecision in the marked mortises.
Works like a charm.  However, I think you'll be surprised how precise you can be using pencil-marked alignment.

Though I think Rick's MGS is swell, it won't solve your problem of moving down the board using the previous slot as your indexing point for the next one.  Those tabs are also not going to fit inside the mortise slot (of any size!)

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 11:52 AM »
When using the technique described by Wood_Junkie, I leave the mortises on one work piece tight and widen the non-indexing mortises on only one work piece. I don't know that it really matters but it seems slightly more secure to me.


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Offline RonWen

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Re: domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 12:50 PM »
You can mark the work pieces and use the alignment marks. Unless you were trying to rationalize another tool, in which case, you could get the new fence and Rick's accessory... [eek]
Tom

I'm curious about the "new fence" you mentioned?  Is that the paddles?  I have the old pin style, the new paddles and Rick's accessory -- none of those are intended to register in the 4mm mortises  unless there is something available that I'm not aware of.  Using the "tight" Domino width setting for the first mortise and "middle" setting for the rest (on pencil marks) always works fine for me.

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2010, 01:09 PM »
You are correct, Ron.

I guess it was confusing the way I put that...

I just meant, jokingly, that if one wanted to get more, why not go for a new fence also. The new fence and new support have paddles and don't work to reference hole-to-hole the way the old pins did.

If you want to reference hole-to-hole with the new system, you have to use the Cross Stop.


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Offline Terry Fogarty

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Re: domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2010, 05:46 PM »
If you have the new paddle fence and want to do it , just file down the spare set of paddles so they fit into the 4mm slot. At least that way it would also be excellent for the 5, 6 and 8 which is still awkward to get in.
.

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 02:00 AM »
...meanwhile, it sounds like the new fence is needed. Thanks for the tip. Rick's accessory looks nice too - you being right about "new tool syndrome".  I emailed him and look forward to learning more about what his device could help me do (advanced rationalization technique)  [eek]

Andrew,
When you emailed me last night, you didn't mention that you were building a box. Even though the MGS Guide does not register off the previous mortise locations, building a box is exactly the type of thing it IS designed for. From your question (without seeing the FOG discussion here) I assumed you were spacing out mortises in a long row, not building a box.

As for registering one mortise off the position of a previous mortise, this is a practice I tend to avoid, as any error in the placement of one mortise will  propagate down the entire joint. Furthermore, any minor error in right/left hand alignment between pins will be compounded (multiplied) by the number of mortises in the row.

Oh, one more thing that was mentioned here that might need clarification to some, is that my guide works with both new dog and old pin style bases. It is not necessary to get the new base to use my guide.

If all goes well, I should be shooting a video of how to use the guide (and several other Festool tools in the process) to build a drawer box this very weekend. I have a friend coming over with a professional video system. <<Fingers Crossed>>

Offline aafoote

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Re: domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2010, 03:20 PM »
that sounds great. I look forward to learning more about the multi-stop device. I tried the "sighting technique" - it wasn't bad. The regrettable part was the lack of speed.

I'll keep learning better ways to make boxes out of 12mm plywood using 4mm dominos. I look forward to seeing how the Rick Christopherson MGS-20 functions (he's hoping to make some movies).  8)
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Offline jonny round boy

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Re: domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2010, 04:08 PM »
I have the newer paddle-style domino, so I'm not 100% sure of the construction of the pins. Even so, here's a possible solution.

I seem to remember reading something about the pin/spring assembly being removeable in some way - I think they screw out? If so, would it be possible to remove them, disassemble them, and turn the 'sticky-out' part of the pin down to 4mm on a lathe?

That would make them usable with a 4mm cutter, and wouldn't alter the use on larger dominoes either (apart from the offset being 1/2mm bigger).

It might be quite fiddly to do, but it may be a solution. 4mm pins could also be something that one of the small after-market companies could produce & sell, possibly.
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Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: domino index pins too fat for 4mm dominos
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2010, 05:26 PM »
Andrew, I don't recall seeing this mentioned previously, but has anyone told you about the Supplemental Manual for the Domino? It is a manual that I wrote for Festool USA for the U.S. market. The manual that shipped with your Domino did extract a lot of the information from my original version of the manual, but that is a full generation back. You can get all of my manuals at: http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/