Brice Burrell
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
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« on: March 25, 2007, 06:15 PM » |
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In a couple of recent threads there has been some confusion about the LR32 hole drilling jig, this thread will address some of the questions that seem to keep popping up here and around the net. First the LR32 will fit the OF1010 and the OF1400, I don't know for sure, but I assume the 1000 will fit also. Next, some have said that the Festool 35mm bit will not cut into wood, stating the router spins the bit too fast and only burns the wood. I have had success with this bit, I use the router on speed setting #1, the slowest setting. I have tried poplar, cherry, pine, oak and birch ply with no problems. As others have posted on this site, you don't have to buy the entire kit, you can just buy the parts you want. Below are the two kits Festool offers: ~ Part # 58329, Festool LR 32-SYS Hole Boring System For OF 1010 & 1400: Includes: Guide Plate, Centering mandrel, 2 side stops, 2 end stops, 2 clamps, 35mm carbide-tipped hinge-location bit, two 5mm carbide-tipped dowel drills in #1 Systainer. Router and rail(s) not included. ~ Part # 583290, Hole Drilling System for OF 1010/1400 Routers: Guide plate with centering mandrel and two side stops, two end stops. Router, drill bits, rail(s) and clamps not included. The parts in bold that are not included in the kits are necessary for standard use of LR32. Here are some pictures of the parts to the LR32 system.  Parts need for standard use. Not pictured, router and clamps. End stops. Side stops. Guide plate, centering mandrel, mounting screws for OF1400. Festool 5mm bit and 32mm bit.OK now that we know what the parts look like, we can get started on the how-to for the standard use of the LR32! PS: If you know any of this info to be incorrect, please let me know, thanks.
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« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 02:12 PM by Matthew Schenker »
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James Metcalf
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Location: Memphis, Tn. Member Since: Jan 2007
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Memphis Tn.
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2007, 06:55 PM » |
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Good job, looking foreward to how to pictures.Thanks for taking the time.
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Brice Burrell
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
Posts: 6210
Remodeling Contractor
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2007, 07:53 PM » |
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In this tutorial I will be making a sample of a frameless, full overlay cabinet, the settings I use here are for my particular hinge. The settings you will need may be different. The first thing that needs to be done is to mount the guide plate to the router. I don't have the OF1010 (yet), so pictured is the OF1400. Just screw the guide to the base of the 1400, screwdriver is in one of the two screws. Note, centering mandreal and thumb screws to mount 1010 off to the side(take a close look, left of center, you can see the pin that drops into the holes in the rail.) Base with OF1010 mounted, use centering mandreal and thumb screws.Next is to adjust the side stops with the router, you only need to do this the first time you use the LR32. This is the only thing that is easy to understand in the manual, so I won't cover it here. Alright, now we fit the end stops to the guide rail. But first a word about the end stops. The end stops can be set to have either a 16mm or 32mm offset from the edge of the work piece to center of first hole in the rail (remember this). We will drill the shelf pins in the cabinet first, so we will set the end stops to the 16mm offset. You are looking at the bottom of the guide rail. Note, end stop to the first hole is 16mm, and the you can see the "16" on the end stop. What it should look like from the top.Side stops go on now, 37mm from the edge of cabinet is the standard for most hinges, so that is what I will set the side stops to. Sorry no picture of this, don't worry it is very east to do. Mount the side stops to the rail to set the distance from edge to your first row of holes. We will line up the rail/end stop to the top of the cabinet (on the left in the picture below) Put the whole thing on the work piece. Note TOP on the work, this the top of the side piece of the cabinet. You are on the right track if it looks like this. Here it is from below, very important, make sure you put the end stop up against the end of the work piece.Clamp the rail and the work down, now remove the side stops, they will get in the way of drilling the holes.  Place the router with 5mm bit on the rail and we are ready to drill the back row of shelf pin holes. More to come..........
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« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 02:10 PM by Matthew Schenker »
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Les Spencer
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Location: Plainfield, Indiana USA Member Since: Jan 2007
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2007, 08:29 PM » |
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Brice,
Very interesting. Looking forward to more.
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Les (near Indy) XL
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Brice Burrell
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
Posts: 6210
Remodeling Contractor
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2007, 09:45 PM » |
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Start the router in the hole where you want your first shelf pin hole, I want it to be 176mm from the top, this will be the 6th hole from the end stop. Make sure the guide is in your first, set depth for the bit. Fire up the router and start to drill, lift lever and slide over to the next hole, drill, repeat until drill all holes, last hole will be 6th from end of work piece. This picture shows lever. Remove the router and rail. Should look a little like this. Another pic, again note TOP on the left side.We now need to drill the second row of holes ,so we will turn the work piece so the "TOP" will be on the right side. Here it is, "TOP" on the right.Now, place rail and side stops back(still set to 37mm) on with the right end stop indexed on the "TOP", this is very important to get your holes to line up!!! End stop indexed against the "TOP", also note the hose hooked on the work piece, don't do this (I will show you why shortly)!Again, clamp and remove side stops and drill just the like other side. Darn it!This is why you don't want the hose to get hooked on the end, I was hurrying, thought I had the guide locked in the hole on the rail, well I was wrong!  Good thing this was just scrap. The hinges I had on hand came with #6 wood screws, so I changed the 5mm bit to a 1/8" straight cutting bit to pre-drill for the hinge locations (for base plates)and drill for them. It would be much faster if your hinges used 5mm screws. Close up of pre-drill for #6 screws.Well that takes care of the cabinet side. Now on to the door. Watch a video of LR32 in action on you tube,
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« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 02:08 PM by Matthew Schenker »
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Mirko
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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2007, 10:27 PM » |
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Hey Brice,
Good stuff here! great post What kind of hinge mounting plates do you use? The reason I ask is, you pre drilled for the #6 screw. When I buy my hinges I order the ones with the 5mm plastic dowels on the plates so you can drill all 5mm holes, just thought I'd point that out, clearly you know what your doing.
Mirko
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Brice Burrell
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
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Remodeling Contractor
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2007, 10:33 PM » |
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Hey Brice,
Good stuff here! great post What kind of hinge mounting plates do you use? The reason I ask is, you pre drilled for the #6 screw. When I buy my hinges I order the ones with the 5mm plastic dowels on the plates so you can drill all 5mm holes, just thought I'd point that out, clearly you know what your doing.
Mirko
What Mirko is pointing out is right on the money. Mirko, the hinges I would normally use do have 5mm screws, I just didn't have any today, so I pulled these hinges off some old cab I had around just for this how to. I hope to add more pictures and details and if time permits, some short video clips. Brice
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« Last Edit: March 25, 2007, 10:40 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Dan Clark
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Location: Bellevue, WA USA Member Since: Jul 2009
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2007, 10:51 PM » |
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Brice,
Excellent tutorial!!! Great pics - sharp, well exposed, and just the right size. Nice use of the Gallery too! This is FIRST RATE!
Many thanks,
Dan.
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Mirko
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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2007, 10:55 PM » |
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Brice, How did you post the pics with the writing underneath them? Is it possible because of the gallery option?
Mirko
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Dan Clark
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Location: Bellevue, WA USA Member Since: Jul 2009
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2007, 11:30 PM » |
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Mirko, He's using the Gallery. I posted a tutorial here: http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=292.0 on how to do that. Scroll down and click on the link, 'Using "Img" Tags to Include Pics in Posts'. It covers the process in detail. That's how I posted my reviews and created the tutorial. It's pretty easy to add a pic like this:  Regards, Dan. p.s., the Photo Tutorial is still draft. We should finalize the two sections completed.
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« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 10:55 PM by Dan Clark »
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Mirko
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2007, 11:46 PM » |
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Thanks Dan
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Brice Burrell
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
Posts: 6210
Remodeling Contractor
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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2007, 07:56 PM » |
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Time for the door, all of the stops and the router need to be readjusted, it is easy to do and goes quickly. The router gets the 35mm bit put in it and the side stops get set to 22.5 mm. This is the offset from the edge of the door to the center of the 35mm hole for the hinge. The end stops get changed from the 16mm offset to the 32mm offset. Note, the "32" on the endstop and the endstop is now centered on a hole in the rail.Alright, place the sidestops on the rail, then the rail on work piece. Remember to index the end stop on the TOP of door and clamp rail and work down. Like this.Put the router on the rail and set the depth of the bit, I used 14mm. Remove the sidestops and make sure you know where to drill your holes and have at it, I set the speed of the router to #1, slowest setting. If you pause at the bottom of the hole you can get some burn. Side by side, look they line up! Close up. With the hinge. Done.Well, that completes it. I know others use differant jigs to drill holes for the doors, I don't. The LR32 makes quick work of it and is dead on. Plus I already have it, no need to spend more money on a dedicated door jig. Some use a drillpress, I do almost all of my work on-site, so, no drillpress for me. Well once you get your head around the LR32's use, you too will like this tool more and more. This covers the standard use of the LR32, I hope to have the time to cover modified uses of this very flexible tool, trust me, this will be fun. I will try to add a few more pictures and a little more detail to this how-to over the next couple of days. And if all goes well, I will shoot some video of the LR32 in action, I know that all of the adjustments and setting sound complicated, however they aren't, you really have to see it to understand how fast and easy it is. If anyone has questions, fire away. Brice
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« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 02:06 PM by Matthew Schenker »
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Brice Burrell
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
Posts: 6210
Remodeling Contractor
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2007, 08:18 PM » |
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Brice,
Excellent tutorial!!! Great pics - sharp, well exposed, and just the right size. Nice use of the Gallery too! This is FIRST RATE!
Many thanks,
Dan.
Thanks Dan. The pics were taken with a cheap didital camera with a tripod. I hate when people post bad pictures on the net, I didn't want to do that. With this tutorial I wanted to keep the writing simple and let the pictures do all work. I really would like to do more tutorials, I always read on woodworking site everybody asking, "why do people spend so much money of on Festool tools?", if they could see they in action, I think more people would understand. Anyhow, glad you like the thread. Brice
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Les Spencer
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Location: Plainfield, Indiana USA Member Since: Jan 2007
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2007, 10:24 PM » |
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Great job Brice.
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Les (near Indy) XL
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brandon.nickel
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Location: Peoria, IL Member Since: Jan 2007
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Currently Peoria, IL - Eventually back to CO
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2007, 11:18 PM » |
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Thanks for the pictorial, Brice. I guess I just wasn't reading the instructions that came with my LR32 correctly.  Is 22.5mm from the edge a standard for the Euro hinges (I use Blum)? How do you deal with face-frame vs Euro cabinetry? For instance, my doors are all 1" wider than the cabinet opening width due to my 1/2" overlay. Does that mean I'd need to set the offset guides to 35.2mm (25.4/2+22.5)? My next project (garage) will likely be frameless, but the wife prefers traditional face-frames.
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TS55, MFT1080, Domino, OF1400, LR32, RO150E, DTS400, Trion, CT33
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Mirko
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Member Since: Jan 2007
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2007, 11:45 PM » |
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Darn it! This is why you don't want the hose to get hooked on the end, I was hurrying, thought I had the guide locked in the hole on the rail, well I was wrong! Good thing this was just scrap. Brice, Regarding your goof, I find it safer to travel in reverse, so you push the hose, not pull. Give'r a try if you havn't already  Mirko
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Jim Dailey
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« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2007, 12:51 AM » |
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Brice,
"Thank You!!!" Very nicely done!!
Your pictures coupled with your explanations are very helpful.
jim
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Life is just a series of projects...
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sroxberg
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« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2007, 01:23 AM » |
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I don't know if I should thank you or not, all this thread has done is added another set of Festool products to my must have list, just when I thought it was getting smaller.
Thanks, it was excellent.
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Matthew Schenker
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« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2007, 06:46 AM » |
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Brice, Very well done! This is exactly the sort of review I was imagining for the forum. Others can use your work as a model.
Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Mirko, we need you to do something like this also!!
Stay in touch, Matthew
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fcraven
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« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2007, 08:29 AM » |
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Brice, Thank you for answering my question  I was trying to explain how this might work to my business partner. His concern, with any method and any tool, is with potential damage to a brand new paint job on doors. We would rather paint first THEN bore the holes, but in the past carpenters have been know to damage finish coats... However, as with so many Festool tools, the technique is almost passive, or gentle, on the surface to be cut. And it certainly would be an efficient use of the tool, on a job site. For my forthcoming application, I can see setting the fence behind the doors, and then installing the guidrail lengthwise on the MFT1080 so that it (the guidrail) wouldn't have to be re set to each of the 48 doors. --assuming I get the job. Fred
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Brice Burrell
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
Posts: 6210
Remodeling Contractor
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« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2007, 10:14 AM » |
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Thanks for the pictorial, Brice. I guess I just wasn't reading the instructions that came with my LR32 correctly.  You were reading them clearly, its just that they aren't very clear.  Is 22.5mm from the edge a standard for the Euro hinges (I use Blum)? How do you deal with face-frame vs Euro cabinetry? For instance, my doors are all 1" wider than the cabinet opening width due to my 1/2" overlay. Does that mean I'd need to set the offset guides to 35.2mm (25.4/2+22.5)? My next project (garage) will likely be frameless, but the wife prefers traditional face-frames.
Best advice here, read the instructions that come with your hinges they will be very clear on the layout.
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Brice Burrell
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
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Remodeling Contractor
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« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2007, 10:41 AM » |
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Brice, Regarding your goof, I find it safer to travel in reverse, so you push the hose, not pull. Give'r a try if you havn't already  Mirko Mirko, now you tell me! Just kidding, I have run miles of shelf pin holes in melamine, so I did pick this up along the way. I had the router placed on the rail all the way to the right to get it in the picture, then I just started running it from there. Normally I would start from the left and work my way to the right. This is however, the first time I drilled a hole in the wrong place (well, with this jig anyhow  ) figures it would happen when I post it on the net! Mirko is right, I am glad you pointed this out, I forgot to put it in.
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« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 10:46 AM by Brice Burrell »
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John Stevens
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Ardmore, PA
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« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2007, 11:39 AM » |
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Nice job, Brice, but when you do the edits for the final draft, you might want to mention:
1. In regard to cabinet sides, the LR-32 is designed to work with sides that are even multiples of 32mm. If the user deviates from that, it's a lot more time-consuming to use it.
2. In regard to cabinet doors, the LR-32 is designed to work with doors that are "full overlay" in the top to bottom direction (which is why I put "full overlay" in quotation marks) to fit sides that are even multiples of 32mm. (The LR-32 will also work regardless of whether the cabinet door is "full overlay top-to-bottom" as long as door length is an even multiple of 16mm, but the odds of that are slim.) If the user deviates from that, it's a lot more time-consuming to use the LR-32.
3. The setting of the side stops for the hinge cup hole will depend on the hinge, the thickness of the cabinet sides, and the overlay of the door (side to side). Definitely need to check the mfr's recommendations, and it helps to do a few mock-ups with some scrap if you haven't previously used the particular hinge with material of the thickness that you're using.
Regards,
John
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Brice Burrell
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
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Remodeling Contractor
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« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2007, 02:41 PM » |
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Nice job, Brice, but when you do the edits for the final draft, you might want to mention:
1. In regard to cabinet sides, the LR-32 is designed to work with sides that are even multiples of 32mm. If the user deviates from that, it's a lot more time-consuming to use it.
This is why I wanted to do the tutorial, people really seem to misunderstand the LR32. John, that is incorrect, the jig was not designed for even multiples of 32mm. This "how-to" looked very easy, did it not, and not too time consuming, right? My door and cab side were not multiples of 32mm. This is why I made it very clear that the jig needed to be indexed on the same end of the work piece every time, in the tutorial the "top". The LR32's instructions also tell you to index the jig the same, they just do a poor job of it. If you use multiples of 32mm the jig is no longer left or right specific, meaning you can index it from either end of the work piece, at the cost limiting the size to multiples of 32mm. So, that brings up the question, is it faster to use multiples of 32mm, I say no, it does take out a little thinking, but not really easier. Unless you use Mirko's jig, see his great jig. http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=452.02. In regard to cabinet doors, the LR-32 is designed to work with doors that are "full overlay" in the top to bottom direction
This is true, and I should have made that more clear. ........to fit sides that are even multiples of 32mm. (The LR-32 will also work regardless of whether the cabinet door is "full overlay top-to-bottom" as long as door length is an even multiple of 16mm, but the odds of that are slim.) If the user deviates from that, it's a lot more time-consuming to use the LR-32.
Again see above. 3.The setting of the side stops for the hinge cup hole will depend on the hinge, the thickness of the cabinet sides, and the overlay of the door (side to side). Definitely need to check the mfr's recommendations, and it helps to do a few mock-ups with some scrap if you haven't previously used the particular hinge with material of the thickness that you're using.
Absolutely, John is right, you do need to make a mock-up. Thanks John. Brice
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« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 02:49 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Mirko
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« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2007, 07:06 PM » |
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The intended purpose of my jig was to make doing multiples as quickly as possible, and at the same time, in a Carefree manor. I really do not have to think every time I need to drill a door. I have worked in custom millwork shops for 16 years, and everyone of them has a system, I began my trade just as the CNC machines from europe, were beginning to make an impact in north america. I watched as each shop, one at a time began to swich over to CNC machinery. The younger people cought on quikly but the "old Timers" could not give up there systems, so they where in a way, forced to move on. I am somewhere in between I was fortunate to learn the European system early on. Once I finished my apprenticeship the Company that sponsered me was at the stage were 50 % of the people working there were in an office type setting. The reason for this was if your good, you go work in the office programing. I was a purist who liked the idea of the CNC machine, but could not work in a shop that had you in front of a machine loading parts, or walking around supervising. I finaly settled at a shop that had two of these CNC routers, but there was only one guy in the office, and the reason for that was the people that were working in the shop had all the experience and the guy in the office along with the two machine operators, where just tools. This system worked great because the people with the passion for woodworking had all the control, we simply could aproach the CNC operator with are sketches and he would route out our parts for us. This became the perfect balance of new and old to form the best system for what we were trying to produce. To sum up what I am trying to say is, to me, the Festool system is doing what the CNC industry did, but this time it is suited for the small one man shops. I continue to be surprised by these tools and the level of quality they can produce. Its fair to say that The LR32 can produce the same quality as a CNC machine(250,000$), the TS plung saws cut like European CNC panel Saws(150,000$)and the dust colection and sanders are better that what most shops have (NO JOKE) I could not do what I do without these tools, is the bottom line. The efficiency that it brings to a one man shop is really amazing! ramble ramble yadda yadda  Mirko
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John Stevens
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« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2007, 10:47 PM » |
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...the jig was not designed for even multiples of 32mm. This "how-to" looked very easy, did it not, and not too time consuming, right?
I've owned the LR-32 for a couple years and have used it almost exclusively on cabinet sides that are not multiples of 32mm. I'm glad that you found your "demo run" to be easy, but after you use your LR-32 on cabinet sides of many different lengths, you might find that--depending on the length--it can be fairly inconvenient (i.e. time consuming) to clamp the guide rail to the work piece while simultaneously clamping the work piece to a stable surface such as the MFT or a work bench. In those situations, I think it's very convenient (i.e., time-saving) to have a stop firmly butted up against each end...hence the advantage of sticking to cabinet sides that are multiples of 32mm. Regardless of that, your reply to my post has helped me see the obvious--that different people have different ideas about what is "very easy" and what is "a lot more time consuming." It's your tutorial, so you get the final say. Regards, John
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John Russell
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« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2007, 10:59 PM » |
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I have been on the fence about the LR 32 -- I have some kitchen cabinets to make as well as some library shelves. A shelf drilling method is important, but if the i LR 32 takes more time and effort with non-multiples of 32mm, then it makes me think again. On the other hand, there do not seem to be too many other options ... If you have used the LR 32, is there a need to consider modifying cabinet design so that everything is a multiple of 32mm? This means some adjustments in materials and setup for other machines, or at least that is the way I read it. Thanks
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Michael Kellough
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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2007, 08:25 AM » |
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... If you have used the LR 32, is there a need to consider modifying cabinet design so that everything is a multiple of 32mm? This means some adjustments in materials and setup for other machines, or at least that is the way I read it. Thanks
Adopting the 32mm system is the most practical adjustment and easier than you think. If your cabinet plans are not presently a multiple of 32mm the maximum adjustment you'd have to make is about +/- 5/8". Not a big deal unless all your parts are already cut. (If I remember correctly)...You only NEED to use a multiple of 32mm IF you have panels that are longer than your guide rail AND you want to use the end stop blocks from both ends. If you work up from just one end (with a short guide rail) you'll have to make a measurement to maintain the 32mm pattern but the length of the workpiece doesn't have a be a multiple of anything. If you are doing a bunch of pieces just make a gauge stick to offset the guide rail up from the start end and there won't be any chance of measurement errors.
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Brice Burrell
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
Posts: 6210
Remodeling Contractor
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« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2007, 05:46 PM » |
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.......but after you use your LR-32 on cabinet sides of many different lengths, you might find that--depending on the length--it can be fairly inconvenient (i.e. time consuming) to clamp the guide rail to the work piece while simultaneously clamping the work piece to a stable surface such as the MFT or a work bench. In those situations, I think it's very convenient (i.e., time-saving) to have a stop firmly butted up against each end...hence the advantage of sticking to cabinet sides that are multiples of 32mm......
I agree with you that clamping is the most inconvenient part of the LR32 system. John when you use multiples of 32mm do you still clamp, if not, I can see how that would be way easier, I don't think I would trust doing that way. Brice
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« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 09:03 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Brice Burrell
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
Posts: 6210
Remodeling Contractor
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« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2007, 06:05 PM » |
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Adopting the 32mm system is the most practical adjustment and easier than you think. If your cabinet plans are not presently a multiple of 32mm the maximum adjustment you'd have to make is about +/- 5/8". Not a big deal unless all your parts are already cut.
Agreed. (If I remember correctly)...You only NEED to use a multiple of 32mm IF you have panels that are longer than your guide rail AND you want to use the end stop blocks from both ends.
This is a true statement, but I don't think this is a good reason to use a multiple of 32mm. See below. If you work up from just one end (with a short guide rail) you'll have to make a measurement to maintain the 32mm pattern but the length of the workpiece doesn't have a be a multiple of anything. If you are doing a bunch of pieces just make a gauge stick to offset the guide rail up from the start end and there won't be any chance of measurement errors.
The easy way, after you run all the holes you can with your rail, put the side stops back on, side the rail down, with the router still on the rail but back to the first hole, now line up the router bit with your last hole plunge the bit into the hole to line up your 32mm offset ( edit: this is done with the router turned off), put a clamp on rail on the far side. I leave the sidestop on the end that is not clamped, you will have to drill some holes, stop and relocate the sidestop.
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« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 06:16 PM by Brice Burrell »
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