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Author Topic: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.  (Read 25734 times)

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Offline Shane Holland

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Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« on: June 18, 2010, 09:11 AM »
The recent thread called "The Domino can't be this easy to use, can it?" made me think maybe the Domino is misunderstood or folks have questions about it.

So, what are your questions about the Domino? 

Post your question(s) and I, or the members of the forum, will do our best to answer them.  Please include whether you currently own the Domino or if you are considering adding one to your stack o' Systainers.  Or, maybe even the questions that you had at one point but have since figured out that may help another forum member.

Don't be shy!  This would also be a great opportunity for some of our forum visitors who have never posted to join the conversations.  [smile]

If it doesn't come up in the course of the conversation, I'll post a few tips in the coming days.

One request: please do not ask about the differences between the version with the pins and the version with the flaps.  There are other threads completely dedicated to that topic.  Thanks.

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Offline Jeff Zanin

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2010, 09:28 AM »
Is there a Domino setup that can be used to align and join 3/4" material at a 45? miter? 

If so what size bit and tenons would work for this, and how do you index the tool?

TIA

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2010, 10:13 AM »
Jeff, great question.

Yes, you can use the Domino to join 3/4" material at a 45 (miters and bevels). 

For bevels:

Set the fence to a 45-degree angle, then lower the fence height making sure that it is as far down as possible.  It's important the the fence is completely in it's lowest height position to prevent the mortise from plunging completely through the material.  In this position, the mortise will be closest to the inside corner of the miter.  Also, it's important to make sure that you position the Domino correctly against the material.  The best way to do this is to first set the fence on top of the material, pressing firmly down on the handle, and then slide the Domino into the material.  This will ensure that there is no gap between the material and the Domino.

The angle created by the fence is used to index it on the material.

You can use the 5mm cutter and tenons.




For miters:

You can index the outside corner of the miter using the pins or flaps on the Domino.  For the inside corner, simply scribe a mark across the two pieces to reference.

In the case of miters, you can use 6mm cutters and tenons.  Generally, you want to use a tenon that is about 1/3 of the thickness of your material.

Again, the key to using the Domino is to keep firm pressure on the handle on the fence.




Angles other than 45:

You can also use it for angles other than 45-degrees using the same methods.


Offline Jeff Zanin

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2010, 07:52 PM »
Thanks Shane and Rutabagared, I appreciate the tutorial, tips, and photos.  I ordered the Domino today, the mitered joints will be one of the first projects.

Jeff

Offline Jon Hilgenberg

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2010, 08:07 PM »
Thanks Shane! When I started that post, I didn't think the Domino was difficult to use from what I had heard, but it was just absurdly easier to use than I thought.  Right out of it's systainer and within five minutes, I had figured out how to miter 3/4 plywood perfectly.  I hope this thread keeps going, because this tool really looks like it's limitations haven't been found.

Once again, thanks.

Jon

(ps, I finally got to change my avatar, but I'm not sure that's a good thing every time I look at it!)

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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2010, 08:42 PM »
Thanks Shane and Rutabagared, I appreciate the tutorial, tips, and photos.  I ordered the Domino today, the mitered joints will be one of the first projects.

Glad it was helpful, Jeff. Please share some photos and your experiences with the Domino in the future.

Any other questions out there in FOGland?

Offline Jon Hilgenberg

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2010, 08:55 PM »
I need to make enclosed rectangular boxes out of prefinished materials to act as rolling seats for a game room.  Is it possible to domino the tops and bottoms to the sides as well as domino the mitered joints.  I can't wrap my head around it.  The tops aren't going to be seen so they will be butt into the sides.

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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 09:00 PM »
I need to make enclosed rectangular boxes out of prefinished materials to act as rolling seats for a game room.  Is it possible to domino the tops and bottoms to the sides as well as domino the mitered joints.  I can't wrap my head around it.  The tops aren't going to be seen so they will be butt into the sides.

Jon, so are you saying that ALL corners of the cube will be mitered including the top and bottoms to the sides so there are no exposed joints? Or, you're going to miter all the sides together and the tops and bottom will be inset flush to the sides?

Just want to make sure I understand the question.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2010, 09:03 PM by Shane Holland »

Offline John Stevens

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2010, 10:12 PM »
Is it possible to domino the tops and bottoms to the sides as well as domino the mitered joints.  I can't wrap my head around it.  The tops aren't going to be seen so they will be butt into the sides.

Gary Katz did something like that when he made a some sort of workbench or cutting table--mitered edging around the work surface.  It's over at the journal of light construction.

It will definitely work if you only put dominos in only one pair of opposing sides of the tops and bottoms.  If you're using ply, chipboard or MDF, I think you can get a strong enough glue bond on the other pair of opposing sides with just a butt joint.

It may also work if you use the middle or widest settings when making the mortises to receive the tenons joining the top with the sides (and the bottom with the sides).  I'd try a prototype before using this approach, just to make sure.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

John
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Offline Jon Hilgenberg

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2010, 05:19 AM »
I need to make enclosed rectangular boxes out of prefinished materials to act as rolling seats for a game room.  Is it possible to domino the tops and bottoms to the sides as well as domino the mitered joints.  I can't wrap my head around it.  The tops aren't going to be seen so they will be butt into the sides.

Jon, so are you saying that ALL corners of the cube will be mitered including the top and bottoms to the sides so there are no exposed joints? Or, you're going to miter all the sides together and the tops and bottom will be inset flush to the sides?

Just want to make sure I understand the question.

Shane,

Tops and sides will inset to flush the sides, not mitered into them. 

I'll look into Katz's workbench to see if I can get some ideas though.

Thanks guys.
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Offline Jon Hilgenberg

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2010, 08:20 PM »
I need to make enclosed rectangular boxes out of prefinished materials to act as rolling seats for a game room.  Is it possible to domino the tops and bottoms to the sides as well as domino the mitered joints.  I can't wrap my head around it.  The tops aren't going to be seen so they will be butt into the sides.

Jon, so are you saying that ALL corners of the cube will be mitered including the top and bottoms to the sides so there are no exposed joints? Or, you're going to miter all the sides together and the tops and bottom will be inset flush to the sides?

Just want to make sure I understand the question.

Shane,

Now I have to build a box in which three sides and the top are going to be mitered (the back of the box will be butt against a wall, )  the top, front, left and right will be visible.  Can all of the mitered joints be domino'd?
Thanks,

Jon
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2010, 10:27 PM »
Now I have to build a box in which three sides and the top are going to be mitered (the back of the box will be butt against a wall, )  the top, front, left and right will be visible.  Can all of the mitered joints be domino'd

Jon,

Great question.  I have never personally tried that type of application.  I believe you may run into a challenge with assembly having that many mitered sides.  Let me check with our trainers and see if they have some advice on how to tackle this particular application. 

Also some of our members may have some advice in the mean time.

Offline harry_

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2010, 04:28 PM »
Just thinking out loud........

I would say yes by setting the dominoes as you would do a butt/lap joint, but well offset from center to where the meat of the mitres are. Not perpendicular to the mitre itself, as you normally would. This way your joints would assemble in a `parallel` motion as opposed to a `contracting` motion.
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2010, 04:40 PM »
I had sent Jon a PM asking the dimensions of his material.  I think the best method may be to make the mortises on the top prior to cutting the miters.  This would make assembly a lot easier since the tenons would be straight up and down versus trying to assemble something with 45 degree tenons on three sides which may or may not be possible since I've never tried it.  Maybe someone else has and can offer some input.  I would think that if you chose to make the mortises at 45's then you would want to use the widest mortise setting on the Domino to give more wiggle room for assembly.

Just my 2 cents.

If time permits, I may experiment at home this weekend.

PS - I have to give credit to seeing someone else come up with the idea of creating the mortise prior to the miter.  I can't remember who but I think it was posted here or on talkFestool at some point.

Edit: I think it was this post by Tezzer that gave me the idea.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 04:49 PM by Shane Holland »

Offline harry_

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2010, 06:15 PM »
Shane,

I guess that is what I meant. I knew that the mortise/tenons had to run parallel to assembly. Having read your post, for stability & accuracy's sake, it would only make sense to cut the mortise(s) prior to cutting the mitre.

Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).

Offline Jon Hilgenberg

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2010, 08:34 PM »
Shane,

I guess that is what I meant. I knew that the mortise/tenons had to run parallel to assembly. Having read your post, for stability & accuracy's sake, it would only make sense to cut the mortise(s) prior to cutting the mitre.



Brilliant guys.  I just couldn't wrap my head around the top section, but mortising prior to mitering sounds like the way to go (I hope)!  I'm working on site this weekend but don't know if I'm going to get to that area.  I might fuss around with some scraps if I have time as well.

Jon
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Offline harry_

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2010, 08:48 PM »
plunge depth is going to be critical as you will be removing much of the mortise material when you cut the mitre. you will need to account for that. Or if necessary, you could shorten the domino.

Sorry, my familiarity with the domino is limited, but I have done this with dowels so the same principles apply.

I am sure that you will see what I mean.
Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).

Offline dsweetser

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2010, 10:18 PM »
Just completed the cabinet class.  Great experience.  Best tip. Grasp the Domono by the plug-it-chord, place your thumb on the back of the motor just above the plug-it-chord and push straight in.  Great control.  No deflection.

Don
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Offline Sean Ackerman

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2010, 03:13 PM »
Just completed the cabinet class.  Great experience.  Best tip. Grasp the Domono by the plug-it-chord, place your thumb on the back of the motor just above the plug-it-chord and push straight in.  Great control.  No deflection.

Don
Amen to that Don.  One of the best things I took from training as well.

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Offline Jon Hilgenberg

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2010, 01:32 PM »
Just completed the cabinet class.  Great experience.  Best tip. Grasp the Domono by the plug-it-chord, place your thumb on the back of the motor just above the plug-it-chord and push straight in.  Great control.  No deflection.

Don
Amen to that Don.  One of the best things I took from training as well.

Have been putting that technique to good use as well.  Mitering a ton of prefinished 3/4" panels on site and each one is better than the next.  Thanks for the tip

Jon
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Offline Kevin D.

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2010, 04:28 PM »
Here's a Domino question...

On another forum, a fellow was asking what would be the most effective way to bore thousands of holes to accomodate hollow aluminum spindles for an outdoor deck.  The suggestion I offered was to see if using the Domino and Cross Stop attachment to set sipo dominos in the upper and lower rail would be feasible based on the width of the ID of the spindles versus the width of a Domino not requiring shaving down the dominos in order to accomodate.  The question I thought of afterwards though was with the spindle basically floating, would there be issues with either the SIPO ultimately bloating, or are they truly waterproof over time?

Another question I had semi-related is whether there are 4mm SIPO's?  Couldn't find them on the website nor at a few retailers I checked.  If they are not available currently, are there any coming out down the road?

And another semi-related Q, when will the Domino Deck Fastening System be arriving in NA?  I know it is scheduled to arrive, but is this imminent.  I have a deck building project that hopefully will get off the ground before this winter myself, and would entertain using it.

Here's a link to the "1,000 Holes" thread on the other forum, for those interested:

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?t=34575
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2010, 04:42 PM »
Wow, that's a lot of questions, Kevin!  [big grin] Let me see if I can answer them all.

As I understand it, the Sipo is a species of mahogany and is resistant to rot and thus better for outdoor use.  I don't know specifically about it's tendency to swell over time but maybe someone else has some knowledge about that.  If not, I can ask some of my colleagues and find the answer.

I have not heard of any plans to offer a 4mm Sipo tenon.  I can check to make sure I am correct in saying that there are no immediate plans to offer one.

The decking fasteners... well, I don't know for sure.  I would expect to see them in the next 6 months but as far as I know there is no specific launch date planned at this point.

Offline Barryduck

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2010, 10:04 PM »
Hi Shane,
I have on several occasions  used  Dominos for cabinet construction in 16mm Melamine faced board (Craftwood in Australia). Using the 5mm by 30 mm dominoes I find it often "breaks" through the melamine face surface of the board ruining the panel. I have found the only solution is to pre cut 4mm off the Dominos which works but is time consuming and frustrating. Do you have any suggestions other that to move to the new 4mm Domino?
Regards
Barry

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2010, 10:22 PM »
Barry, I think 16mm is cutting super close (as you already know). One thing that helps a little, be sure to have the piece backed up when inserting the tenons. What I mean is be sure the backside of the piece is on something solid like your work bench. If the piece is aloud to over hang the bench the tenon can be easily driven right though the side of the piece since there isn't any support behind the thin material remaining.

The fastest way to cut down tenons in to make a number of mortises in a scrap piece, insert the tenons and run them through a table saw.

It wouldn't be much trouble to switch over to the 4mm cutter/tenons since tenons are mostly for aliment on cabinets (at least for me).   
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Offline wooden

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2010, 10:31 PM »
H Using the 5mm by 30 mm dominoes I find it often "breaks" through the melamine face surface of the board ruining the panel. I have found the only solution is to pre cut 4mm off the Dominos which works but is time consuming and frustrating. Do you have any suggestions other that to move to the new 4mm Domino?
Regards
Barry

How deep are you mortising?  When mortising 90 degrees to the face of the board, I will mortise the minimum depth - 12mm.

Then mortise 20 mm into the joining board because you are mortising parallel to the plane and hence have plentybof material below the bottom of the mortise.  You can mortise 15 mm.....at least I've successfully done so.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2010, 11:03 PM »

How deep are you mortising?  When mortising 90 degrees to the face of the board, I will mortise the minimum depth - 12mm.

Then mortise 20 mm into the joining board because you are mortising parallel to the plane and hence have plentybof material below the bottom of the mortise.  You can mortise 15 mm.....at least I've successfully done so.

Yeah, that will help but it's not hard to blow right though 4mm if you aren't careful.
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Offline southern_guy

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2010, 02:34 AM »
I generally plunge to 20mm into the end of one piece when joining to say a 16mm side. I then fit the domino to that piece first, ensuring that the amount protruding is no more than 12mm before fitting to the side piece. That way the domino can't blow through, there simply isn't enough protruding to cause a problem.


Offline jonny round boy

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2010, 02:49 AM »
I generally plunge to 20mm into the end of one piece when joining to say a 16mm side. I then fit the domino to that piece first, ensuring that the amount protruding is no more than 12mm before fitting to the side piece. That way the domino can't blow through, there simply isn't enough protruding to cause a problem.



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Offline Barryduck

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2010, 03:29 AM »
Barry, I think 16mm is cutting super close (as you already know). One thing that helps a little, be sure to have the piece backed up when inserting the tenons. What I mean is be sure the backside of the piece is on something solid like your work bench. If the piece is aloud to over hang the bench the tenon can be easily driven right though the side of the piece since there isn't any support behind the thin material remaining.

The fastest way to cut down tenons in to make a number of mortises in a scrap piece, insert the tenons and run them through a table saw.

It wouldn't be much trouble to switch over to the 4mm cutter/tenons since tenons are mostly for aliment on cabinets (at least for me).   
[/quote

Brice,
Thanks for your input. Yes I had had experience with the tenon being driven through the side of the piece. To obviate this I always drive the tenon into the other piece first and then back up the face piece as you describe. I think however you are correct  in that the clearance is just too fine and so its either cut the 30mm tenons down or use the 4mm cutter which I have thus far been unable to source in AUstralia. I also used your method of inserting a number of tenons into π side of a scrap piece and then cutting them all to size simultaneously.
Regards
Barry

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Have a question about the Domino? Get answers here.
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2010, 09:07 AM »

......or use the 4mm cutter which I have thus far been unable to source in AUstralia.....

Regards
Barry


Barry, Anthony at Ideal tools has the 4mm cutters and tenons.  He's in of Melbourne. Here are links to the 4 mm cutter and 4 mm tenons, bag of 450.
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