Author Topic: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained  (Read 4263 times)

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Offline DynaGlide

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How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« on: October 06, 2017, 08:34 AM »
In most every post or video when someone breaks down 4x8 sheets they use rigid foam as a base. What do you do when you don't have room to store a big 4x8 foam board? Or not even the 2x8 boards they make? In my situation I'd most likely do the major sizing of 4x8 outside then bring in to my tiny garage.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online RobBob

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2017, 08:42 AM »
I cut the foam across the width into three equal pieces and built a lightweight frame to hold them back together when in use.  Of course, the frame has to be stored, too.


Offline aloysius

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2017, 08:49 AM »
Shift your ceiling lights or get some wall floods & occy-strap your foam to the ceiling?

3 or 4 home made saw horses with sacrificial (foam?) tops?  They can either stack &/or hang when not required.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 08:54 AM by aloysius »
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Offline tjbnwi

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2017, 09:07 AM »
Put the foam in the living room behind the coach when you don't need it. If there is a complaint filed, paint the show side to match the wall color [big grin]

Tom

Offline grbmds

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 09:28 AM »
I just have the large sheets rough cut to a size close to what I want and finish cut them in my shop. I don't have to worry about carrying large sheets into my shop nor where I store the foam cutting sheet.

I admit this probably isn't practical for a trade/craft person who is a cabinetmaker for a living or craftsmen in other types of woodworking, but it works for me. It usually costs me no extra than just buying the sheet (possibly a dollar or two more).
Randy

Online Roachmill

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 10:08 AM »
2-3 lengths of 2x4 laid on the ground and the sheet on top would see you right for getting things to more manageable sizes. They can they get shoved up in the rafters or wherever when not needed. This is what I do when I get sheets from my supplier and have to get them in the car.

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2017, 10:11 AM »
@DynaGlide another option is skip the foam and use something modular. I have nowhere to store a full sized cutting table & ended up using 80/20 to make up a knock down one. There's an old thread with lots of ideas for cutting tables, unfortunately the images were lost so the thumbnails cannot be expanded.

There's an old video showing V1.0. Current version will handle a full sheet with (4) 48" long arms.



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Offline Cheese

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2017, 10:35 AM »
I modified a couple of sawhorses and cut the foam into thirds.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 67
Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2017, 10:46 AM »
I modified a couple of sawhorses and cut the foam into thirds.

I love it. You even used dominos on the sheets. I'm assuming you just bolted those aluminum pieces to the sawhorses to accept pegs to hold the 80/20 extrusions.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3733
Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2017, 11:03 AM »

I'm assuming you just bolted those aluminum pieces to the sawhorses to accept pegs to hold the 80/20 extrusions.


You got it...I just used some 1/2" thick aluminum I had on hand.

The dominos really help in keeping the 3 pieces of foam together. Without them, the foam would move as soon as you started to move the cut pieces of ply/wood.

Offline BarneyD

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2017, 11:12 AM »
If you don't have room to store foam board, this may not help you.  But this is what I use.  Just a table made of plywood with some foldable legs.  Roughly 3' x 6'.

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Offline lwoirhaye

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2017, 12:51 PM »
I have used up to four 2x3s on the ground or on sawhorses for outdoor cutting.

Offline live4ever

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2017, 12:56 PM »
The Centipede tables fold up nice and compact.  The 4x8 can be had for $99.  Of course, it would still necessitate a sacrificial top of some variety, but it has brackets that can hold 2x4s, which might be a bit easier to store depending on your situation. 
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2017, 06:50 PM »
One of members who is a mobile carpenter used to take a 4 x 8 and rip it into 12" or 16" wide strips and then reattach them will duct tape so that they could fold up like an accordion.  Cut the tape?  Apply more.

Just something that was passed on to me.

Peter
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Offline gunnyr

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2017, 07:09 PM »
Home Depot sells 2x2 squares of rigid insulation.  I have four squares and lay them on the garage floor when I have only one sheet to breakdown.  I just position the squares as needed to keep the material off the floor. 

My preferred method is to use sawhorses with a sheet of OSB with foam on top (I use two 2x4's between the horses to keep things flattish)
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Offline bkharman

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2017, 09:18 PM »
This is going to seem a bit off the wall but use camping pads. You can get them fairly cheap and they roll up when you don’t need them. I have two that I break out on occasion if I need to cut on the floor.

I tried the big foam once...  had it down and made a few cuts and that was great. Then I wanted to bring it inside. So I cut it in thirds like Cheese did. Next time I went to use it, they took a trip down the street when a big gust of wind did its business. After that, I needed a better way and opted for the camping pads. Something like these...

ALPS Mountaineering Foam Camping Mat (Regular 750) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004OEEG7Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_0Qc2zbDB4PMNA

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Offline lwoirhaye

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2017, 09:32 PM »
You could try interlocking floor mats.  They are pretty cheap at Pep Boys.  You would just have to be finicky about the saw blade projection.  Using 2x material I can afford to be sloppy about the depth setting.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2017, 11:40 PM »
I have two $5 tables that are the 2'x 5' jobs like the ladies use selling or giving away cookie outside of church.
The Mrs treied selling them at a garage sale for $5, many years ago and I asked her is $5 for pair was acceptable. ;)

They are pretty second hand, but they work ok in the driveway.

Offline Rob-GB

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2017, 07:45 AM »
Make a pair of flat packing trestles that can accept at least three long joining bars of 3x2cls.
I have used such a system from the back of a small van on on site projects.
I'd post a pic but photobucket is playing up again.
There have been numerous posts about sheet breakdown on here that have no need of foam sheets.
My searches to show a thread have failed so far, sorry for that.
Off to work on my Google fu.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

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Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 67
Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2017, 08:31 AM »
Lots of great ideas. I'm kind of dense so pictures are a must. The floor mats seem like a good low space solution just a pain to use. Similar feelings with the camping pads. I have two of those toughbuilt jobsite sawhorses I'd like to incorporate

Offline Cheese

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2017, 10:01 AM »
Something else to think about is I do a lot of metal cutting. Sheets of metal tend to be smaller than sheets of ply, usually in the 2'-4' square range.
Last week I needed to cut a 1 3/4" wide strip off of some 5/16" aluminum. Rather than setting up the table, I just took one section of foam and laid it on the patio, made the cut and tossed the foam back into the garage.

Small pieces of foam or small pads are just easier to deal with.

Offline Cheese

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2017, 12:31 PM »
I love it. You even used dominos on the sheets. I'm assuming you just bolted those aluminum pieces to the sawhorses to accept pegs to hold the 80/20 extrusions.

Here's another photo I came across as I was clearing out my phone. Everything is nice and level/flat/planar.

Offline downtheroad

  • Posts: 126
Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2017, 01:46 PM »
I needed a way to store my foam backer in a small shop with low ceiling height. So, I used a 2" rigid foam 4'x8' panel, cut and hinged with the red construction seam seal tape. Made it easier to store and transport for me.

Here's what I did:
Tony

Offline Rob-GB

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2017, 07:45 AM »


Nicked this pic from Frank Pellow's old post and it is close to what I made, quite possibly inspired by him as he is an inspirational guy.
Search plywood cutting tables or festool tracksaw table in google images for loads more.

Rob.
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Offline Naildrivingman

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2017, 07:52 AM »
I'm assuming you want to use foam (or a sacrificial surface) for better dust collection?  I personally don't use a sacrificial surface. I have the typical lightweight metal sawhorses with 38" 2x6 on top. I don't get all the dust, but I get enough. The horses of course fold up when not in use.
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Offline jobsworth

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2017, 08:57 PM »
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline ear3

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2017, 08:13 AM »
I'm in a similar situation as you @DynaGlide insofar as when I process sheets, I have to do it outside my garage shop.  But I usually dispense with the backing altogether and just work off these foldable metal saw horses I got at home depot that are topped with scrap plywood (replaceable when they get too many cuts).  The legs are adjustable, so they also serve many other purposes.  The cut quality of the tracksaw is such that I don't have to worry about tearout on the underside of the sheet due to the lack of a continuous cut surface.  The saw horses fold up with a very low profile and hang in between the studs of the unfinished garage wall.  I have a total of five of them -- usually three is sufficient for a single sheet, but I've done site work in the past where I've used all 5 to set up an 8x8 work surface.
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Online waho6o9

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2017, 09:22 AM »
A Walko on top of Stanley horses works well for me.

270106-0

Gotta love cutting 2 sheets at once, three with the TS75.

Thank you Festool.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 09:25 AM by waho6o9 »

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2017, 09:28 AM »
@jobsworth @Naildrivingman @ear3

I think I was afraid not having a cutting surface would cause splintering in the bottom of the cut. If I'm outside maximum dust collection isn't as much of an issue. Thank you for sharing I think I'll give it a go with the sawhorses I have and some 2x etc on top.

@jobsworth I just watched the video you posted. That's probably the most helpful to me because. .that guy is basically me. Same size garage, Harley parked in the corner, mechanics tools. Thank you for sharing.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 09:36 AM by DynaGlide »

Offline jobsworth

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2017, 11:12 AM »
The thing I learned from using festools is being creative. Im not that creative so I come for ideas on how to do things. These tool take a different approach to woodworking. Way different :>D
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline Naildrivingman

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2017, 06:05 AM »
@jobsworth @Naildrivingman @ear3

I think I was afraid not having a cutting surface would cause splintering in the bottom of the cut. If I'm outside maximum dust collection isn't as much of an issue. Thank you for sharing I think I'll give it a go with the sawhorses I have and some 2x etc on top.

@jobsworth I just watched the video you posted. That's probably the most helpful to me because. .that guy is basically me. Same size garage, Harley parked in the corner, mechanics tools. Thank you for sharing.
@DynaGlide
Theoretically you should not have tearout on the bottom of the sheet if your blade is sharp and the saw runs straight.  Tearout occurs when the teeth exit the surface rather than enter.  the purpose of the splinter guard on the track is to "compress" the wood fibers and minimize the uplift.  Ultimate tearout control can be achieved by running a sharp utility knife on the cut line.

I personally have not had any significant problems with tearout using the track saw.  I support the material, set the track and cut.  No tape, no razor knife, no sacrificial surface.
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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Sanderxpander

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2017, 04:34 PM »
My sheet goods are usually not the finishing layer so I usually lay them on top of each other. I might get a minor scratch but you can get pretty accurate with the saw and stacking them that way is super stable which helps a lot with accuracy of cut. When I get to the last one I usually have enough scraps to make a decent base. Doing it that way means working on the floor a lot though.

Offline Holmz

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2017, 07:22 PM »
...
Theoretically you should not have tearout on the bottom of the sheet if your blade is sharp and the saw runs straight.  Tearout occurs when the teeth exit the surface rather than enter.  the purpose of the splinter guard on the track is to "compress" the wood fibers and minimize the uplift.  Ultimate tearout control can be achieved by running a sharp utility knife on the cut line.
...

Well I was cutting two pieces of melamine a while back.
One was older and heavier duty stuff, and responded to theory.

The newer stuff had a thin layer of brittle melamine and chipped out like mad.

Wood also can vary in its sheer strength versus some other deal... Basically some can be easy to cut and some can like to chip out.
Then you combine that with the saw's tracking etc.

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 367
Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2017, 12:46 AM »
...
Theoretically you should not have tearout on the bottom of the sheet if your blade is sharp and the saw runs straight.  Tearout occurs when the teeth exit the surface rather than enter.  the purpose of the splinter guard on the track is to "compress" the wood fibers and minimize the uplift.  Ultimate tearout control can be achieved by running a sharp utility knife on the cut line.
...

Well I was cutting two pieces of melamine a while back.
One was older and heavier duty stuff, and responded to theory.

The newer stuff had a thin layer of brittle melamine and chipped out like mad.

Wood also can vary in its sheer strength versus some other deal... Basically some can be easy to cut and some can like to chip out.
Then you combine that with the saw's tracking etc.
Good points @Holmz

I intended to edit my comments to exclude melamine, but forgot to do so.  Melamine is a special beast in and of itself.  The best way to deal with melamine is to establish a 1 mm scoring cut followed by a finishing cut.  Still not a guaranteed chip free cut, but better than without.  The trick with a scoring cut method is to EXACTLY follow the scoring cut with the finish cut. A slight variance from the scoring cut line can result in tearout.

Thin box store veneers can behave similar to melamine and may respond well to scoring cuts, but I can't definitively comment because I don't use these materials.
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Offline Holmz

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2017, 01:30 AM »
I guess my point was that. Even with the good stuff I could not chip it.
With the crap stuff, even using the MT55's exclusive scoring cut... it was chipping like mad everywhere else.
Then with wood it can vary as well.

It is like a post complaining about X, and everyone else says I have no problem with X.

It does not identify anything helpful to the user other than maybe (s)he is the problem... When it could just be the material.


But I like theories in general... (More than specifics) So I liked your post that I responded to.

Offline Holmz

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2017, 05:37 AM »
Well 2 sheets of MDF and > a sheet of offcuts worked this afternoon.


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Offline tjbnwi

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Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2017, 08:49 AM »
At the risk of having this post deleted;

Set rail

Clamp in place (I use Geckos on melamine)

Set saw to 0.5-1mm depth of cut

Run saw backwards on rail to score cut

Adjust to proper depth

Finish cut

Tom

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 322
Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2017, 02:42 PM »
Whilst a Paulk style tracksaw table would be a very nice thing to have much of the time its just not needed.

I usually setup with two sawstools set about five feet apart.
Two lengths of 2x timber (can be 2x2, 2x3 or 2x4, it doesn't really matter and make them at least 1800 mm long but 2400 is better set as wide apart on the sawhorses as I can which on mine is mebbe 800mm apart.
Then across the 2x timber I have four or five bits of either timber, plywood or even MDF about 1200 long.
All that ^ setup allows me to fit my CTM 26 extractor between the sawhorses and under the top without any risk of the blade cutting so deep as to cut into my extractor.

That all supports the stuff I'm cutting as well as I need it.

I hardly ever bother with the clamps when I'm cutting as the track grips well enough for almost any cutting I do, the exception to this is when I'm cutting faced bathroom boards which cost eighty or so quid and it would be embarrassing if I knackered one.

Offline J0hn

  • Posts: 116
Re: How to work with sheet goods when you're space constrained
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2017, 10:39 PM »
Dewalt makes these saw horses.  They have adjustable legs, but more importantly, they have a couple of notches at the top that will firmly hold a couple of 2x4's on edge

http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-33-in-Folding-Sawhorse-with-Adjustable-Metal-Legs-DWST11031/203040645


A couple of 90" 2x4s to fit into the notches and to act as the main support and then several 30" 2x4's as evenly spaced cross pieces.  All the 2x4's are simply notched so they fit together without any hardware