Author Topic: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)  (Read 11279 times)

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Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
OK FOGgers,

How would you solve this situation? 

All of the existing cabinets in this kitchen are 29 1/2" tall (and the drawer/door combos measure the same rail to rail).

The new Bosch "panel ready" dishwasher calls for a max panel size of 28 1/4" tall.  If I followed this recommendation, the panel would line up along the top, but would be 1 1/4" short on the bottom (which I am afraid would look "off" and would defeat the purpose of having a panel ready DW at all.

With this now installed, I'm not sure what to do.  (I've tested to see if a larger panel would work, and it doesn't as any larger than the manufacturer's specs will hit the internal toe kick, which is right in front of the frame, which wouldn't allow the door to open).

I was thinking about getting a 29 1/2" panel, and ripping 1 1/4" off the bottom rail.  This way the top of the bottom rail would line-up with the tops of the bottom rails in the bank of cabs, but that seems like it would stick out.

So I appeal to the seasoned FOGgers, as I assume  you have encountered this before.  What would you do?

See picture of the bank of cabs:



Now see a close-up, showing a rough dotted line for how "off" the lower is supposed to be in the context of the other lower stiles (the label shows 1" lower, but it would actually be 1 1/4"):


« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 05:53 PM by Grasshopper »
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

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Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3224
I was thinking about getting a 29 1/2" panel, and ripping 1 1/4" off the bottom rail.  This way the top of the bottom rail would line-up with the tops of the bottom rails in the bank of cabs, but that seems like it would stick out.

If you did that, would you then be able to fix the bit you ripped off between the adjacent carcases, so in effect you'd have a small non-moving 'rail' across the bottom? Would the drop-down portion of the door clear it when in the open position?

I hope I've explained that clearly enough...
Festoolian since February 2006

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Offline Tk_tobe

  • Posts: 11
Assuming the DW has height adjustment I would drop it down by 1 1/4" and put a filler above the DW. Fit the door as normal, covering the DW and top filler.

Offline Locks14

  • Posts: 291
Assuming the DW has height adjustment I would drop it down by 1 1/4" and put a filler above the DW. Fit the door as normal, covering the DW and top filler.

This was my first thought, however from the photo it looks like it might be at its lowest setting, though hard to tell from the photo.

Offline andyman

  • Posts: 629
If I think what you are saying is right been a long day usually cut notch the plinth / toe board so the door opens

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594


If you did that, would you then be able to fix the bit you ripped off between the adjacent carcases, so in effect you'd have a small non-moving 'rail' across the bottom? Would the drop-down portion of the door clear it when in the open position?

I hope I've explained that clearly enough...

Thanks for your comment.

I had actually thought about that as an option, but I was concerned that if I ever needed to service the dishwasher I'd have to remove the permanent portion of the rail down the road.  I'd hate to "trap" the dishwasher if I can avoid it.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 06:22 PM by Grasshopper »
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
If I think what you are saying is right been a long day usually cut notch the plinth / toe board so the door opens

I am having a hard time picturing this (cutting the toe / board).  Do you mean cut the bottom style to fit?  Or were you saying I should cut into the toe kick?

If you were saying cut the toe-kick, I can't.  It is a thin metal toe-kick that is part of the DW itself.  It set's in deep enough for the smaller panel, and sits just above the DW frame.  So even If I removed the factory toe kick, I would only gain a few millimeters before the panel would hit the frame of the dishwasher.

Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Thanks for your comments.

I don't think I could lower the DW another 1 1/4".  Even if I could, I'd be concerned with either having the panel extend beyond the top of the dishwasher or having a filler piece in the same area since that is where hot steam is vented.




Assuming the DW has height adjustment I would drop it down by 1 1/4" and put a filler above the DW. Fit the door as normal, covering the DW and top filler.

This was my first thought, however from the photo it looks like it might be at its lowest setting, though hard to tell from the photo.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Tk_tobe

  • Posts: 11
Thanks for your comments.

I don't think I could lower the DW another 1 1/4".  Even if I could, I'd be concerned with either having the panel extend beyond the top of the dishwasher or having a filler piece in the same area since that is where hot steam is vented.




Assuming the DW has height adjustment I would drop it down by 1 1/4" and put a filler above the DW. Fit the door as normal, covering the DW and top filler.

This was my first thought, however from the photo it looks like it might be at its lowest setting, though hard to tell from the photo.

When I've done this I make the filler piece L shaped, returning back just above the DW and put the metal steam protection plate that comes with the DW straight onto the filler. Not sure I understand why the door panel extending past the DW door would be an issue?

I've done this half a dozen times and had no issues at all.

Hope you come up with a solution :)

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Thanks for your thoughts.

Frankly, I'm surprised that the Bosch DW is so limited in its "out of the box" panel height range.  My friend has a Bosch DW (full size), and it works fine with his panels that are taller than mine.

The reason I think it would be an issue to have the panel extend 1 1/4" above the dishwasher is the steam vents right out the top, and would likely be an issue with long term exposure to the panel.  The steam would flow up and out, and would get trapped by the proud portion of the panel.  I also think it would be inconvenient pushing all the buttons to operate the DW which sit along the top of the door, with the excess panel in the way.

Thanks for your comments.

I don't think I could lower the DW another 1 1/4".  Even if I could, I'd be concerned with either having the panel extend beyond the top of the dishwasher or having a filler piece in the same area since that is where hot steam is vented.




Assuming the DW has height adjustment I would drop it down by 1 1/4" and put a filler above the DW. Fit the door as normal, covering the DW and top filler.

This was my first thought, however from the photo it looks like it might be at its lowest setting, though hard to tell from the photo.

When I've done this I make the filler piece L shaped, returning back just above the DW and put the metal steam protection plate that comes with the DW straight onto the filler. Not sure I understand why the door panel extending past the DW door would be an issue?

I've done this half a dozen times and had no issues at all.

Hope you come up with a solution :)
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1853
  • NORFOLK,VA
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2015, 07:47 PM »
Is this a standard sizes DW?
It looks smaller than 24" maybe 18"?
Is it a ADA DW? That could explain the odd size
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline mwildt

  • Posts: 364
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2015, 07:50 PM »
Most Bosch DWs if not all vent through the drain so I wouldn't expect there are vents at the top of the front. Second, the top controls on the door is such that the panel is to be installed flush with the top from what I can tell. I looked online at their website but I'm not sure what model you have though it looks like the SPV68U53UC. Unfortunately the online manual didn't list the panel dimensions from what I could find but they do show the machine with cabinet front.
In any case one reason it has to be shorter is so that when the door opens the lower lip has room to go into the kick panel space, hope that description makes sense. I suggest you cut a piece of mdf with the panel dimensions and see how it works and then use that to see how big you can make the real panel.

Online rvieceli

  • Posts: 725
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2015, 07:56 PM »
Try mocking up a panel the size you want and see if it works.

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2015, 11:07 AM »
It's an 18" indeed (the wife wanted a 2nd DW  :o)

I'm not sure if it's ADA.  If it was, that would explain something.

Is this a standard sizes DW?
It looks smaller than 24" maybe 18"?
Is it a ADA DW? That could explain the odd size
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2015, 11:14 AM »
Thanks for the feedback.  The FOG is a great place indeed!

I think you are correct about the venting through the drain.  I suppose what I had envisioned, is every time it opens, hot steam rolls out from the top opening.  I guess this isn't the "official" venting, but long term exposure to wood is probable, if the panel isn't flush with the top.

The model number of this DW is:  SPV5ES53UC/23

As for a mockup, I had a piece of 1x that I laid over the front to see how it would open.  Unfortunately, it would have to be shorter than my other panels in its current configuration.

I have a call into Bosch tech support as I'd imagine they have either dealt with this, or they have another unit that would be a better fit.

Most Bosch DWs if not all vent through the drain so I wouldn't expect there are vents at the top of the front. Second, the top controls on the door is such that the panel is to be installed flush with the top from what I can tell. I looked online at their website but I'm not sure what model you have though it looks like the SPV68U53UC. Unfortunately the online manual didn't list the panel dimensions from what I could find but they do show the machine with cabinet front.
In any case one reason it has to be shorter is so that when the door opens the lower lip has room to go into the kick panel space, hope that description makes sense. I suggest you cut a piece of mdf with the panel dimensions and see how it works and then use that to see how big you can make the real panel.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 379
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2015, 06:01 PM »
Common practice in my part of the world (Europe/Netherlands) is to use a filler on top of the DW (the L-shape mentioned before) and extend the doorpanel over that. It is only necessary for ‘extreme' heights. My counter is 100 cm (around 40 in.), so you know…
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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Offline TheTrooper

  • Posts: 247
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2015, 06:45 PM »
How about 3 drawer fronts as the fake panel and make the bottom stationary high enough for the door to just clear
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Offline mwildt

  • Posts: 364
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2015, 10:32 PM »
Bummer that it has to be shorter. I would then have gone with a stainless front one instead. At least that would then match the one on the right.

Good luck on the decision.


Thanks for the feedback.  The FOG is a great place indeed!

I think you are correct about the venting through the drain.  I suppose what I had envisioned, is every time it opens, hot steam rolls out from the top opening.  I guess this isn't the "official" venting, but long term exposure to wood is probable, if the panel isn't flush with the top.

The model number of this DW is:  SPV5ES53UC/23

As for a mockup, I had a piece of 1x that I laid over the front to see how it would open.  Unfortunately, it would have to be shorter than my other panels in its current configuration.

I have a call into Bosch tech support as I'd imagine they have either dealt with this, or they have another unit that would be a better fit.

Most Bosch DWs if not all vent through the drain so I wouldn't expect there are vents at the top of the front. Second, the top controls on the door is such that the panel is to be installed flush with the top from what I can tell. I looked online at their website but I'm not sure what model you have though it looks like the SPV68U53UC. Unfortunately the online manual didn't list the panel dimensions from what I could find but they do show the machine with cabinet front.
In any case one reason it has to be shorter is so that when the door opens the lower lip has room to go into the kick panel space, hope that description makes sense. I suggest you cut a piece of mdf with the panel dimensions and see how it works and then use that to see how big you can make the real panel.

Offline vteknical

  • Festool Employee
  • *
  • Posts: 160
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2015, 12:04 AM »
That is an ADA compliant model, unfortunately your only option is to put a filler under the counter-top to the top side of the dw the size you need.  I have done this a million times with ADA units with no problem.  If your unit is returnable the Miele Fully integrated slim line unit will accommodate panels of 30 5/16" Make sure to adjust your door springs so the panel does not slam down causing pre-mature hinge failure. 

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2015, 12:22 AM »
Cut a hole in the floor and drop the DW an inch.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3987
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2015, 03:29 AM »
OK FOGgers,

How would you solve this situation? 
...

Well get the wife some dishgloves and an aproooooooo.





I just woke up with a lump on the back of me head and a cast iron skillet is nearby.
I think the Haus-Frau was looking o'ar me shoulder. [embarassed]

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2015, 06:47 PM »
Thanks all.

After thinking about this, I am going to lower the DW and add an "L" shaped filler strip along the top, attached via pocket screws to the  face frames left and right.  I will have the full sized panel stick out from the top.

I wouldn't have solved this without your help.

THANKS!!!
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Skl17

  • Posts: 1
Hi grasshopper,
I know this is a one year old thread but I'm very interested to know how your solution worked out.  I ordered a Bosch 18 inch custom panel d/w because I want to fully integrate the d/w into my kitchen.  But like you, I learned after purchasing the d/w that this unit was created to be ada compliant.  I have a shaker door (18x30) and standard 4-4.5 inch toe kicks.  Can you explain a little more how you created your L shaped filler?  Can't it be any shape filler? Why L? How did you secure the d/w into its space so it does not move when opening and closing the door?  Did you end up installing a toe kick to match your kitchen? 
Thanks for your help!

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: How Would You Solve This? (Panel Ready Dishwasher Needs Smaller Panel)
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2017, 05:02 PM »
Thanks for the reply.  I got caught in a couple projects, so I haven't finished this yet.

I am confident lowering the DW and having the panel sit 1 1/2" higher (vs. flush with the DW) will be just fine.

As for the "L" shape filler.  I haven't done this yet, but the plan is to basically extend the faceframe from the cabinets on either side of the DW.  I'll then place a 1x3 at a 90 degree angle from the new faceframe which will create the "L" (so I have something to attach the DW s mounting brackets to.)

I hope to get to this too, and must if I am to stay married.  I'll plan to post pictures when I finish.

Hi grasshopper,
I know this is a one year old thread but I'm very interested to know how your solution worked out.  I ordered a Bosch 18 inch custom panel d/w because I want to fully integrate the d/w into my kitchen.  But like you, I learned after purchasing the d/w that this unit was created to be ada compliant.  I have a shaker door (18x30) and standard 4-4.5 inch toe kicks.  Can you explain a little more how you created your L shaped filler?  Can't it be any shape filler? Why L? How did you secure the d/w into its space so it does not move when opening and closing the door?  Did you end up installing a toe kick to match your kitchen? 
Thanks for your help!
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Online Gregor

  • Posts: 549
I got caught in a couple projects, so I haven't finished this yet.

So I'm no to late ;)

Had the same issue with a bosh, not full but partly panel type.

My solution, attach something in the lower space:

260513-0
260515-1

The inner top edge had to be slightly broken as the door swings down a bit before moving inward enough to clear the lower front...

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Thank you for sharing.

I got caught in a couple projects, so I haven't finished this yet.

So I'm no to late ;)

Had the same issue with a bosh, not full but partly panel type.

My solution, attach something in the lower space:

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

The inner top edge had to be slightly broken as the door swings down a bit before moving inward enough to clear the lower front...
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline James Biddle

  • Posts: 95
How dd you attach that bottom filler to make it easy to remove the DW when needed?  A friend has that same situation except his has raised panels on it.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 663
I don't know how Gregor actually did it but I can envision a removable panel that sits on pins or small dominos (2 on each side) inserted into each adjacent panel the project out about a 1/2" and matching L-shaped or angled slots on each end of the removable filler piece. Then to install/remove you just lift it on/off no tools required. If it's an L-shaped slot then you line up the filler with the pins and push in then let it drop down to lock in place.

Put a slight back bevel on the top of the filler and a complementary bevel on the bottom of the door panel so to provide clearance for the door opening/closing.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?


Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 663
Yes, shelf pins would work too.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?