Author Topic: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks  (Read 17587 times)

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Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« on: February 12, 2015, 06:33 PM »
I have been attempting to master the lock-miter joint on my CMS-VL router table and I was fortunate enough to find the Wood Whisperer's thread where he built some really nice newel posts using lock miter joints.  Check it out below-

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/new-stairway-overhaul-(before-after)/msg373211/#msg373211

In an effort to not completely derail that thread, I thought it would make sense to have a dedicated thread to discuss tips and tricks to setting up a lock miter joint on the router table.

On the thread mentioned above there were many good suggestions for setting up the lock-miter. 

Please chime in with your workflow with this frustrating joint (it is at least very frustrating to me), those with the CMS I'm particularly interested in hearing from.

Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

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Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2015, 06:39 PM »
To kick things off, I am including some of the tips that were shared in the other post:

I'd love to see workflows featuring the CMS, especially ways to cut the vertical pieces in multiple passes (without screwing up your setup).  I'm not exactly sure how you could do a stop block with the CMS fence.


Paul Marcel did a nice video on using the Valfor Tools GrooveCenter and 2-Axis Depth Gauge to set up a lock miter bit.



Tim



Nice work on the posts!  I'm a huge proponent of the lock miter bit.  I use it on all my kitchen cabinet/vanity drawers.  You don't need to plunk down any hard-earned on fancy gauges.  I did a tutorial on a drawer build on sawmill creek using 2 pieces of scrap it's on post #3:  Lock Miter Tutorial and our own Peter Parfitt made a rather excellend Youtube showing the setup in more depth.



For anyone wanting to use the lock miter bit, you might want to check out Infinity Tool's LMM-002 Lock Miter Master Jig for aligning the bit to the fence and to the workpiece.  It's also mentioned in an article in Fine Homebuilding.  There's also a good on setting up the bit.  It won't eliminate fine tuning, but it will save a ton of time setting up the bit.  YMMV...

Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Baremeg55

  • Posts: 613
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2015, 09:58 PM »
The last time I checked out the lock miter bits, though some while back, you could also get the matching set up guide blocks.  While you can ease into the correct settings, I wouldn't bother without the guides.  For the small price you pay, you won't waste as much wood or your time.....  Of course, once you have the correct depths/fence settings, you can make your own guide blocks.....

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2015, 12:36 AM »
Do you know If CMT has a guide block set? (Or if there are compatible guide blocks for CMT bits).

setup just inching along is a huge pain.

I'm also struggling to find the best way to run the vertical piece along the CMS fence.

The last time I checked out the lock miter bits, though some while back, you could also get the matching set up guide blocks.  While you can ease into the correct settings, I wouldn't bother without the guides.  For the small price you pay, you won't waste as much wood or your time.....  Of course, once you have the correct depths/fence settings, you can make your own guide blocks.....
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Brent Taylor

  • Posts: 471
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2015, 07:33 AM »
The last time I checked out the lock miter bits, though some while back, you could also get the matching set up guide blocks.  While you can ease into the correct settings, I wouldn't bother without the guides.  For the small price you pay, you won't waste as much wood or your time.....  Of course, once you have the correct depths/fence settings, you can make your own guide blocks.....
This is the method that I also use, & for all the thickness that I use.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1680
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2015, 07:54 AM »
Do you know If CMT has a guide block set? (Or if there are compatible guide blocks for CMT bits).

setup just inching along is a huge pain.

I'm also struggling to find the best way to run the vertical piece along the CMS fence.

The last time I checked out the lock miter bits, though some while back, you could also get the matching set up guide blocks.  While you can ease into the correct settings, I wouldn't bother without the guides.  For the small price you pay, you won't waste as much wood or your time.....  Of course, once you have the correct depths/fence settings, you can make your own guide blocks.....

Rockler used to a lock miter bit with a setup block. Experience with Rockler bits is inconsistent, but I've found that, if you aren't going to use a particular bit more than for one or just a few projects, their bits can be a good buy. If you're going to use on numerous projects, I'd say that Rockler bits aren't the way to go. Sometimes they have sales on bits that make them even more attractive as an option for single projects or only sporadic use.
Randy

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3297
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2015, 08:17 AM »
The last time I checked out the lock miter bits, though some while back, you could also get the matching set up guide blocks.  While you can ease into the correct settings, I wouldn't bother without the guides.  For the small price you pay, you won't waste as much wood or your time.....  Of course, once you have the correct depths/fence settings, you can make your own guide blocks.....

It's a piece of cake to make your own setup blocks.  There are numerous places to buy UHMW plastic strips, 3/4" x 4" x 48".  Once made, they hold up very well, unlike MDF. 

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline hrrb

  • Posts: 183
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2015, 10:04 AM »
Do you know If CMT has a guide block set? (Or if there are compatible guide blocks for CMT bits).

setup just inching along is a huge pain.

I'm also struggling to find the best way to run the vertical piece along the CMS fence.


...just had a quick browse through the CMT main catalogue. It doesn't seem they got at set up block.

Kind regards
Henrik

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2015, 11:25 AM »
Thanks for the input thus far!  Man, setup is a pain.  I am still trying to adjust for the fence depth.  Back a mm, forward a mm.  I feel bad for the scrap pile that I have accumulated setting this up.

This tutorial was helpful because it has a few pictures that indicate when the cutter is too high or low on the router base side , and whether or not too much or too little cutter is exposed for the fence side.

http://stuswoodworks.com/2009/04/setting-up-a-locking-miter-bit/
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1680
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2015, 12:10 PM »
Here is a link to a setup jig that Infinity Tools started selling a year or so ago. I have no experience with it, but it allegedly works for the thickness woods they indicate on their site. There are 2 jigs. You can buy either depending on what you need or you can buy the set of 2. As far as I can tell they are supposed to work with any lock miter bit of the size listed in their specs. (Sorry the link didn't appear as an actual link but you can copy into your browser.)

http://www.infinitytools.com/Router-Bit-Set-Up-Jigs/products/1330/

If someone buys and uses it, I'd like to hear how well it works. As described, it looks like it would take the guesswork out of the setup process and get it very close, if not right on, the first time.
Randy

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2015, 12:45 PM »
I will have to try that.  The part that is proving to not be a piece of cake (operator error of course), is setting up the bit well enough the first time to then be able to make a setup block.

Sheesh this is very frustrating the first time.  Way more annoying than I thought it would be (45 degree miters with dominos for joinery is looking pretty tempting about now  :)

I received a PM from another user who said he was reluctant to remove the bit after finally setting it up and joked that he'd almost need to buy a new router table and router, keeping the first one setup as the dedicated lock miter station.  I now totally know what he means.

It's a piece of cake to make your own setup blocks.  There are numerous places to buy UHMW plastic strips, 3/4" x 4" x 48".  Once made, they hold up very well, unlike MDF.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3297
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2015, 01:18 PM »
Here is a link to a setup jig that Infinity Tools started selling a year or so ago. I have no experience with it, but it allegedly works for the thickness woods they indicate on their site. There are 2 jigs. You can buy either depending on what you need or you can buy the set of 2. As far as I can tell they are supposed to work with any lock miter bit of the size listed in their specs. (Sorry the link didn't appear as an actual link but you can copy into your browser.)

http://www.infinitytools.com/Router-Bit-Set-Up-Jigs/products/1330/

If someone buys and uses it, I'd like to hear how well it works. As described, it looks like it would take the guesswork out of the setup process and get it very close, if not right on, the first time.

That's the one I mentioned here

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Online Jim Kirkpatrick

  • Posts: 987
    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2015, 01:47 PM »
Setup blocks that are made or purchased are really just to ball park your initial setup.  3/4" Plywood as everyone knows, is not 3/4" thick, it's slightly thinner.  So a template made with 3/4" stock will not work with 3/4" plywood.  You will need to make several different templates for different thicknesses of stock.  And even then, I've found that plywood can vary sheet to sheet so when using a 2nd sheet of ply of the same grade and species, you may need to check the bit height.

Setting the bit height for the first time is pretty straightforward.  Having a nice router lift in your table and a digital readout makes life a little easier and a whole lot faster.  In fact, I don't know how you can proceed without them.  You can start my eyeballing the center of the bit on your work piece and with 2 scrap pieces, mill them lying flat on your table like in the picture.  Flip one over and join them together as shown:


After the bit height is set, the fence adjustment is next and is quite easy.  With a scrap test piece of stock, run it flat on the table and the fence is set correctly when the bit stops reducing the length of your test piece.  Once the bit height and fence distance is correct, mill another piece of stock lying flat and save for future setups.


I think this is one of the greatest and easiest joints ever for making drawers!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 01:53 PM by Jim Kirkpatrick »

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1091
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2015, 05:01 PM »
Here is a link to a setup jig that Infinity Tools started selling a year or so ago. I have no experience with it, but it allegedly works for the thickness woods they indicate on their site. There are 2 jigs. You can buy either depending on what you need or you can buy the set of 2. As far as I can tell they are supposed to work with any lock miter bit of the size listed in their specs. (Sorry the link didn't appear as an actual link but you can copy into your browser.)

http://www.infinitytools.com/Router-Bit-Set-Up-Jigs/products/1330/

If someone buys and uses it, I'd like to hear how well it works. As described, it looks like it would take the guesswork out of the setup process and get it very close, if not right on, the first time.

That's the one I mentioned here.

So, what are the pros/cons of the red metal jigs vs. the white plastic jigs?

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1880
Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2015, 05:09 PM »
Quote


So, what are the pros/cons of the red metal jigs vs. the white plastic jigs?

The red metal jigs allow you to adjust quickly to the center of any thickness wood the bit supports.

The blocks are good for a standard size. Say ¾" or 1"

I have the Infinity baby bit and really like it. Has a great cutting edge and with the red jig, you can setup in just a few minutes.

Cheers. Bryan.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1091
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2015, 05:42 PM »
Ah, I see now.  Thanks for the info.

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2015, 06:27 PM »
Jim,

Your images and tutorial are fantastic!  The photo of the completed joint gives me hope.

I am about to pull my hair out trying to get the bit height just right.  I have the CMS-VL table, so no digital readout on the lift.  I see how that could be quite handy now. 

Back to kill some more poplar 1x in an effort to set this thing up.

Setup blocks that are made or purchased are really just to ball park your initial setup.  3/4" Plywood as everyone knows, is not 3/4" thick, it's slightly thinner.  So a template made with 3/4" stock will not work with 3/4" plywood.  You will need to make several different templates for different thicknesses of stock.  And even then, I've found that plywood can vary sheet to sheet so when using a 2nd sheet of ply of the same grade and species, you may need to check the bit height.

Setting the bit height for the first time is pretty straightforward.  Having a nice router lift in your table and a digital readout makes life a little easier and a whole lot faster.  In fact, I don't know how you can proceed without them.  You can start my eyeballing the center of the bit on your work piece and with 2 scrap pieces, mill them lying flat on your table like in the picture.  Flip one over and join them together as shown:
(Attachment Link)

After the bit height is set, the fence adjustment is next and is quite easy.  With a scrap test piece of stock, run it flat on the table and the fence is set correctly when the bit stops reducing the length of your test piece.  Once the bit height and fence distance is correct, mill another piece of stock lying flat and save for future setups.
(Attachment Link)

I think this is one of the greatest and easiest joints ever for making drawers!
(Attachment Link)
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Help me solve my Lock Miter Woes
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2015, 12:23 AM »
OK, after spending hours getting the lock miter bit setup properly, I finally with glee made a setup block for future projects.  Before my hopes were dashed to pieces of course.

See photo of "acceptable" test piece that can be a setup block:


Now I ripped a couple long test pieces (around 40" long or so) and wanted to see the lock miter in all its glory, and I really have no idea what went wrong:

You can see the end of the joint is way off


Throughout the board, there are tons of valleys and chatter.  I assume operator error for sure.  The vertical piece (the one against the fence) took a ton of digs and looks terrible.

I used the CMS-VL, and cinched down the feather boards, and used a push stick.  The feather boards were pretty tight if that makes a difference.  I was pretty close to throwing the bit in the trash, but a cooler head prevailed and said I should "ask the FOG". 

See the chatter:





I realize that I'm new to the router table business and this is likely operator error, which is probably why I am baffled by the outcome.  Your insight is very appreciated. 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 12:28 AM by Grasshopper »
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 613
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2015, 12:53 AM »
In my experience, lock miter bits in a router table are best suited for small boxes and other relatively short joinery.

For long lengths, you really need a shaper with a power feeder.
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline Linbro

  • Posts: 195
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2015, 07:03 AM »
I don't think the bit is to blame - so don't throw it away! More likely the CMS isn't up to it, or your stock isn't true?
Is the fence set correctly? Is the outfeed half of the fence in the right position? Your 3rd and 4th pic look like the result of the two fence halves being lined up, instead of them being offset from each other, causing the board to 'drop into' the cutter.

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3446
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2015, 08:13 AM »
How many passes and what router (1400?) are you using in the CMS. It does look like the stock is moving away from the bit as you are feeding it. Use stacked feather boards on the infeed and out feed side for the vertical pieces. Support the out feed and infeed sides so the board stays stable.
Tim

Offline hrrb

  • Posts: 183
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2015, 08:33 AM »
Holy Crab Cake!  [scared]
How could it go that wrong? Sorry for being straightforward...that looks terrible! [sad]

Did you do it in one pass or 2 to 3 passes? I can't really see the thickness of the stock from your photos but if it's too thick and you try to chew it in one bite it's hard to ensure that the featherboards keep the stock tight to the fence and table top. And then you might get a poor result.

When using a router in a table it is very important that your featherboards keep the stock tight to the fence and table top. I myself have learned that the hard way.

If you do the job in 2-3 passes it might help you. You might have a look at Paul Marcels video. Doing the job in 2-3 passes is exactly what he does.

Ohh...and don't go too fast! Go nice and slowly untill you master the technique.

Don't give up yet  [wink]

Kind regards
Henrik

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3297
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2015, 09:58 AM »
I've found that I need to use a sacrificial fence (1/2" plywood) to keep the piece being routed straight with the fence for the entire pass through.  That has eliminated the gouging like shown on the horizontal piece.  The challenge is in keeping the vertical piece from rocking as it passes through the bit. 

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2015, 11:20 AM »
Thanks for the many replies.  I am certain this is operator error.  I am optimistic you can help me solve this.

My router table experience is very limited, so I've checked my ego at the door and am humbly seeking your experience  ;)

Here are responses to the questions:

DeepCreek - That makes sense, I'm still hoping to make this work for a pair of newel posts I want to build.

Linbro - I was actually considering throwing the bit away due to frustration.  I'm certain the bit is perfect as it is brand new.  Regarding my fence setup, the two fences are lined up with each other.  I've never run a stepped fence (and with the lock miter, it was a bear to set the fence up having to account for a MM here or there to get things lined up. )

Tim - I am using the OF 1400, and hogging this out in one pass.  I realize that multiple passes would be ideal, I just can't figure out an easy way to do that on the CMS.  Dialing in the hight and fence literally took many hours of fine tuning.  I am using the Festool stock feather boards (the black push board that presses the stock down, and the clear plastic "fingers" that presses the stock against the fence).  As I have no miter slot, I'm not seeing an easy way to add feather boards to the out feed and infeed sides as you suggest.

With the CMS fence so touchy, and no place to put "stop blocks" I cannot envision how I can graduate the fence backward to accomplish multiple passes.  I hope that I am missing something basic.


Hrrb - I agree that it looks terrible.  In fact, its the worst I've seen.  I had to check my ego at the door to post these pictures for sure.   [wink]

The stock is 3/4" thick and it is Poplar.  As I had mentioned above, I hogged these out in one pass, which I assume is a major contributor to the outcome.  Simply put, I cannot envision how to make multiple passes using the CMS-VL router table, and stock feather boards.  The feather board is set to as tight as I can get it to go.  I don't know how to ease in with multiple passes with my current setup.

Willy - I see where a sacrificial fence would be helpful.  Any tips on how to integrate one with the CMS fence.

See pictures below of my setup. 

See stock tight against my fence using all Festool factory feather board and guards:



View of bit from the top showing fence running mostly parallel:


Other angle of fence:


View of what the stock sees as it is being fed to the bit.  Stock is held pretty tight against the bit and fence:

« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 11:22 AM by Grasshopper »
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1880
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2015, 12:34 PM »
Grasshopper.

There are many ways to accomplish the "multi pass" method. Since you know the fence can be a beast to mess with (stock CMS one that is). You might try putting a temporary fence or base off of your final cut.

I am tying this on my phone so it is hard to explain but if you set your final cut (fence and bit depth) and then have sacrificial boards in the table and against the fence, you can route out a shallow pass and then take that board away, put a smaller shim in and run again.

I think Paul Marcel has a video on this, or maybe it was Peter but there are some out in YT land.

I use an Incra fence which makes the above method moot, but the above procedure definitely works!  Not for all bits, but it does for the lock miter bit.

Cheers. Bryan.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 613
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2015, 01:37 PM »
I'm not going to knock the CMS or the 1400 (my favorite handheld but underpowered for what you are doing) but it sounds like they may be part of the problem.

I have a Woodpecker table and router lift with a Hitachi 3-1/4HP variable speed router.  My lock miter bit is an Amana.  I have hogged out long lengths of soft stock (Red Cedar) for some exterior trim.  I added a lot of extra featherboards and had to leave extra length so I could cut off the tail end of the boards if things got squirrely as I exited the cut.  I made it work but the results were not perfect (which is my always my goal).
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 01:41 PM by deepcreek »
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline Linbro

  • Posts: 195
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2015, 03:13 PM »
When you run it with the stock flat on the table,  does the cutter remove much material at the point of the mitre?

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2015, 03:15 PM »
When you run it with the stock flat on the table,  does the cutter remove much material at the point of the mitre?

The pass on the flat does take out a lot of material. The flat pass wasn't as bad as the vertical pass.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Linbro

  • Posts: 195
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2015, 03:33 PM »
When you run it with the stock flat on the table,  does the cutter remove much material at the point of the mitre?

The pass on the flat does take out a lot of material. The flat pass wasn't as bad as the vertical pass.

Yeah, but at the point of the mitre?

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3297
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2015, 06:41 PM »
Willy - I see where a sacrificial fence would be helpful.  Any tips on how to integrate one with the CMS fence.

Here's a shot of how I did one with 3/4" MDF.  It's a little too thick  for my purposes, which is why I suggested using 1/2" plywood. 

 [smile]

Edit: Just added a shot of the end result of using the sacrificial fence and the Infinity setup jig.  I had to make several fine-tuning adjustments, but this is the result.  Then - I thought to measure the thickness of the MDF.  It's greater than 3/4", so I get to do the process all over again with stock that is exactly 3/4" so I can make a set of UHMW setup blocks. 

« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 06:49 PM by Sparktrician »
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2015, 06:41 PM »
Joe,

Your setup looks great!  I ran to my local lumberyard and picked up a pair of Woodpeckers feather boards.

I think I will also make a sacrificial fence out of 1/2" that I can use for my first pass, then I can remove and take a 2nd pass without hogging it out all in one pass.

I plan to set the downward pressing feather board just past the cutter, and another on the table pressing towards the cutter.  If I can figure out a T-Track but that will fit the CMS's smaller T-channel on the bevel.  The fence side's channel is bigger and accepts the nut from the Woodpeckers hardware, but the bevel's T-channel is smaller. 

Hopefully I can keep the pressure good in front of the cutter with a push block and push stick (certainly more feather boards would help, but I am trying to keep costs down after my recent Festool binge).

Feedback is welcome.  Anybody have suggestions for the best way to use the smaller t-track (the larger T-track in the fence is perfect for festool clamps etc., not sure what folks use the smaller size t-track for), or how to attach feather boards on the CMS.

See pictures below:

Photo of my tentative feather board placement, and the CMS miter gauge aimed towards the cutter


Picture of the CMS's smaller T-track-  (does Festool sell a rectangular shaped nut that slides in here?)






I'm not going to knock the CMS or the 1400 (my favorite handheld but underpowered for what you are doing) but it sounds like they may be part of the problem.

I have a Woodpecker table and router lift with a Hitachi 3-1/4HP variable speed router.  My lock miter bit is an Amana.  I have hogged out long lengths of soft stock (Red Cedar) for some exterior trim.  I added a lot of extra featherboards and had to leave extra length so I could cut off the tail end of the boards if things got squirrely as I exited the cut.  I made it work but the results were not perfect (which is my always my goal).
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

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Offline WoodWhisperer

  • Posts: 175
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2015, 09:58 AM »
Here is a pic of how I ran my vertical pieces through. It worked pretty good. Still got some tear out. I ran a lot of material through it for the project I was going. I would say u need to run probably 15-20% extra just to make sure up have enough good stock to use.
TS55|TS75|OF1400|EC-ETS125|ETS125|MFT/3|
2-MIDI|Kapex|Carvex PS420| |Domino700XL|Compact Cleaning Kit|Waiting on my PRO 5.....

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3297
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2015, 11:08 AM »
WoodWhisperer, I like the secondary fence for vertical pieces.  My challenge with the CMS is that when I run pieces vertically, the reducing rings around the bit on the CMS are slightly lower than the deck of the CMS, so if I'm routing the narrow end of a 3" x 18" piece, for example, the workpiece tends to go off-perpendicular as it passes through the bit.  Routing pieces on the long side isn't a problem; it's the short side. 

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2015, 09:26 AM »

Nice!


Here is a pic of how I ran my vertical pieces through. It worked pretty good. Still got some tear out. I ran a lot of material through it for the project I was going. I would say u need to run probably 15-20% extra just to make sure up have enough good stock to use.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2015, 08:45 PM »
Update.  Thanks for all the feedback!  I tried another setup that I learned from Peter Parfitt on this other thread thread: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/cms-ge-feather-board/msg374222/#msg374222

  I also added some scrap 1/2" baltic birch plywood as a zero clearance fence for the first pass.  Night and day from my previous setup.

After running some scrap through, I am seeing a much better cut, but I now think the cutter is not set at the correct depth.  I'm back to trying to dial this in before I run real stock through.  I'm more confident in this setup running 3 feather boards.


Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2015, 08:15 PM »
*Update*  I give up on the lock miter.

Those of you who have mastered it, I bow down to y'all.

I thought I had it dialed in, had sacrificial fences (1/2", then 1/4"), running three passes.  Featherboards galore… and I still managed to kill $120 worth of S4S maple.  I know when I am defeated, and the lock miter certainly was the winner today.

I'm off to try and find an alternative method that suits me in my newel style island posts.  So as to not derail this thread, I've created a new thread seeking FOGgers alternative methods for newel post construction: 

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/what-is-your-festool-way-to-build-a-newel-post/
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline jbasen

  • Posts: 685
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2015, 12:58 AM »
What issue are you having with the joint?  The most common I've experienced is that there is a slight gap in the corners where the pieces of wood come together.  You can usually take a metal rod and rub it along the corners to push the wood fibers from each piece together and totally hide the gap.

Hope this helps

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2015, 01:12 AM »
For whatever reason, there was still a ton of tearout.

Good tip on the rod. I think with some sanding, and some rod I may be able to salvage some of the joints.

Overall, it was way more work that it was worth. I think I'll keep lock miters for small boxes, but not long runs of stock.

What issue are you having with the joint?  The most common I've experienced is that there is a slight gap in the corners where the pieces of wood come together.  You can usually take a metal rod and rub it along the corners to push the wood fibers from each piece together and totally hide the gap.

Hope this helps
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline hrrb

  • Posts: 183
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2015, 01:51 AM »
*Update*  I give up on the lock miter.

… and I still managed to kill $120 worth of S4S maple. 

I'm sorry to hear that  [sad]

It seemed you had taken all necessary steps and precautions to avoid things going bad.

Is it both the 'vertical' and 'horizontal' boards that's got tear out?

The ones you do in 'upright' position can be a bit tricky if you by accident tilt the stock. It's important to keep it firm and flat against the fence either by hand or with stacked featherboards.
It's a bit easier to do the 'horizontal' ones without any issues.

I can't figure out what you did wrong  [unsure]

Do you have a picture of the final result showing the tear out?

Kind regards
Henrik

PS! Did you remember to lock the router? I once read that if you dont remember to lock the plunge mecanism there is a slight risc that some bits running trough hard wood actually can lift the router a teeny weeny bit...just enough to ruin your work. Haven't tried that myself though.  [huh]
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 06:54 AM by hrrb »

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3297
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2015, 09:23 AM »
The ones you do in 'upright' position can be a bit tricky if you by accident tilt the stock.

I'm still trying to figure out a methodology for keeping the upright pieces truly perpendicular to the table.  Anyone got any good ideas? 

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4983
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2015, 09:40 AM »
Tall fence.

Tom

Offline jbasen

  • Posts: 685
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2015, 09:44 AM »
The ones you do in 'upright' position can be a bit tricky if you by accident tilt the stock.

I'm still trying to figure out a methodology for keeping the upright pieces truly perpendicular to the table.  Anyone got any good ideas?

I have used a Milescraft double tall feather board

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3297
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2015, 10:33 AM »
The ones you do in 'upright' position can be a bit tricky if you by accident tilt the stock.

I'm still trying to figure out a methodology for keeping the upright pieces truly perpendicular to the table.  Anyone got any good ideas?

I have used a Milescraft double tall feather board

The issue isn't keeping the stock against the fence, it's keeping narrow stock from tipping right-to-left that's the challenge.  I'm thinking that a sacrificial push block the same thickness as the material to be routed, that actually rides on the table might be a potential solution. 

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3297
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2015, 10:34 AM »
Tall fence.

Tom


I'm already using a sacrificial tall fence clamped to the CMS' fence, Tom.  It's the right-left tipping that concerns me. 

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 613
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2015, 10:46 AM »
Your setup looks better than before but you need a featherboard right over the bit.

The extra featherboards help minimize your influence on the board as it is presented to the bit.  That's why I use as many as I can. 

They do not completely eliminate it though so I would also recommend using as much infeed and outfeed support as you can muster.

Make sure you are locking the adjustment for the router.  It does make a difference.

As to the tear out, I think it is due to you feeding the stock too fast for the speed setting of the router.  You may need to slow your feed rate to a crawl even if it produces a little burning.

The Infinity lock miter set up jig should work with your CMT bit.
http://www.infinitytools.com/2-Pc-Lock-Miter-Master-Jig-Set-For-3_8-1-1_8-Stock-Setup/productinfo/00-LMM/

Here's an article by Gary Katz on lock miters.  He uses a power feeder on his router table.
http://www.garymkatz.com/trimtechniques/lock_miters.html

And if you haven't figured it out already...while some people make lock miters look easy, they really are a PITA!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 10:52 AM by deepcreek »
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline hrrb

  • Posts: 183
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2015, 10:51 AM »
Tall fence.

Tom

Yup! Tall fence...and stackable featherboards.
You can either buy them or make your own.

I made these using my bandsaw and some scrap wood.

Put some shims in between and glue or screw together. (These are just clamped together so I could show what I mean)




Kind regards
Henrik

« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 11:09 AM by hrrb »

Offline hrrb

  • Posts: 183
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2015, 11:08 AM »
Tall fence.

Tom


I'm already using a sacrificial tall fence clamped to the CMS' fence, Tom.  It's the right-left tipping that concerns me.

Ah yes...now I get it. I'm a bit dull today  [embarassed]

A square sacrificial push block must be the answer.

Kind regards
Henrik

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2015, 11:24 AM »
Thanks a ton for your feedback.  Good point on the feather board right over the bit.

You are right that lock miters are a PITA.  I had no idea :)

As for speed of the bit, CMT bits between 35mm and 60mm show a recommended 16,000 RPM max.  I have my OF 1400 set between 3 & 4 speed (as I understand speed setting 3 is 14,800 RPM, and speed setting 4 is 17,200, so I felt splitting the difference was appropriate).  As far as feed speed, I am crawling, but I suppose I could slow down too.

Your setup looks better than before but you need a featherboard right over the bit.

The extra featherboards help minimize your influence on the board as it is presented to the bit.  That's why I use as many as I can. 

They do not completely eliminate it though so I would also recommend using as much infeed and outfeed support as you can muster.

Make sure you are locking the adjustment for the router.  It does make a difference.

As to the tear out, I think it is due to you feeding the stock too fast for the speed setting of the router.  You may need to slow your feed rate to a crawl even if it produces a little burning.

The Infinity lock miter set up jig should work with your CMT bit.
http://www.infinitytools.com/2-Pc-Lock-Miter-Master-Jig-Set-For-3_8-1-1_8-Stock-Setup/productinfo/00-LMM/

Here's an article by Gary Katz on lock miters.  He uses a power feeder on his router table.
http://www.garymkatz.com/trimtechniques/lock_miters.html

And if you haven't figured it out already...while some people make lock miters look easy, they really are a PITA!
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1680
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2015, 01:13 PM »
I know you wanted to use the lock miter joint but, given you are painting the finished product, wouldn't there be easier joints to use? I understand your need to master this joint, for sure. If the wood isn't exposed, I would assume there are other ways to get this done which are much easier than if the columns wouldn't be painted.
Randy

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2015, 01:42 PM »
Agreed! 

Perhaps the lock miter will be on my  bucket list.  As an amateur, I just have to admit when a process is too unwieldy for me.

Butt joints seem like the way to go indeed.  Now to figure out how to rip a 1x2 down to 1" wide for the short sides on the TS55.

I know you wanted to use the lock miter joint but, given you are painting the finished product, wouldn't there be easier joints to use? I understand your need to master this joint, for sure. If the wood isn't exposed, I would assume there are other ways to get this done which are much easier than if the columns wouldn't be painted.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1680
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2015, 02:08 PM »
No bandsaw for the ripping, huh? How about a friend with a tablesaw or a bandsaw? You can do it with a TS55. There should be someone on this site that can give you suggestions for that.
Randy

Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 613
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2015, 02:55 PM »
Now to figure out how to rip a 1x2 down to 1" wide for the short sides on the TS55.

Tape it to a wider board and make your rip fully supported.

I do appreciate Festool's track saws (I own both) but there are times that a good table saw is the right tool for the job.
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2015, 03:06 PM »
Good tip! 

My local lumberyard said their take care of me on their table saw.

Off to buy some stock!



Now to figure out how to rip a 1x2 down to 1" wide for the short sides on the TS55.

Tape it to a wider board and make your rip fully supported.

I do appreciate Festool's track saws (I own both) but there are times that a good table saw is the right tool for the job.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1680
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2015, 03:10 PM »
A lot cheaper than buying a new saw, but not nearly as exciting.
Randy

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2015, 12:06 PM »
Agreed.  But $15 well spent. 



A lot cheaper than buying a new saw, but not nearly as exciting.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline TallKnight

  • Posts: 1
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2017, 12:05 PM »
This has been an awesome post about setting up 45 locking miter bit.  I am currently working on a cedar chest project for my daughter.  I plan on using this joint for the box.  I have an issue though because the stock I am using for the front and side pieces is larger iin thickness than the 3/4 plywood I plan to use for the back piece.  I am planning on using the same basic design as the panneling I did in my office.  Here is a picture so you can understand what I am talking about.

Im sure what ill have to do is adjust the depth on the cut for the back piece.


« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 12:31 PM by TallKnight »

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4983
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2017, 01:34 PM »
These jigs take all the grief out of setting up lock miter bits. I can't recommend them enough.

https://www.infinitytools.com/lock-miter-master-jigs

I set up the bit to make this cut using the Infinity jig. One and done. Used the jig to set the bit in the CMS to routed the mating stile.



Assembled cabinet. 266884-0

Tom
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 03:03 PM by tjbnwi »

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3173
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2017, 08:05 AM »
When you say index the front and the back @tjbnwi , what exactly do you mean?  Is it just precutting the front and the back to minimize the sort of tear-out and ripping one gets at the end and the beginning of the cut?

I still have yet to use my lock mitre bit.  I just got a project for which it would be perfect.  A 16x16x40 pedestal that has to have all mitred edges.  You're method of cutting on the flat would seem to be called for when running the vertical on 16" boards.  Unfortunately, the pedestal has to be made out of solid mahogany, so I don't think I want to have my first try be on $300+ worth of wood.  So I think I'll just use straight mitres reinforced in a couple of places with dominoes.  Provided all the cuts are square, the top should simply be able to nest in place and be affixed with glue.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4983
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2017, 08:49 AM »
@ear3,

My comment about indexing was referring to making a cut at each end carefully so I could set the rail the proper distance from the edge of the plywood. With the knife edge the bit produces it is very easy to distort the edge with to much side pressure. The router guided by the rail in addition to the fence removed that risk from the equation.

I suggest 2 sided tape or ATG to secure a "guide block" to the pieces run when using this bit. The blocks are set even with the edge of the work piece and are full length or longer. As you run the piece the block runs along the fence protecting the knife edge created by the cut.

Tom

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3173
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2017, 09:17 AM »
Thanks.

@ear3,

My comment about indexing was referring to making a cut at each end carefully so I could set the rail the proper distance from the edge of the plywood. With the knife edge the bit produces it is very easy to distort the edge with to much side pressure. The router guided by the rail in addition to the fence removed that risk from the equation.

I suggest 2 sided tape or ATG to secure a "guide block" to the pieces run when using this bit. The blocks are set even with the edge of the work piece and are full length or longer. As you run the piece the block runs along the fence protecting the knife edge created by the cut.

Tom
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline J0hn

  • Posts: 40
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2017, 01:29 PM »
I have found once you understand where the center of a Lock Miter Bit is, it is pretty easy to setup.  You do need a proper tool to measure - I use a Wixey WR200 Digital Height Gauge which comes in handy for other things


266981-0

266983-1

266985-2


I should mention there are two parts to setting up a lock miter bit

Set the height of the bit
So with my Bosch 84508M Lock Miter Bit, I know that the center is .177" below the top edge of the top cutter.  I want the center of the cutter to be centered on the workpiece, so I measure the thickness of the board I am using and divide by two.  .75" / 2 = .375".  So I take the .375" and add it to the .177" and I know that I need to set the top edge of the top cutter to .552" above the router table.

To test - run two boards flat (horizontal) through the bit, flip one over and mate them together.  The top surfaces should be flat and level.  If not, fine tune your height adjustment.


Set the fence
Once the bit height is set, place one of the boards against the fence (vertically) and with a straight edge, adjust the fence so that the bit is almost touching the straight edge.  You want a sharp point, but if the fence is set too far forward, you will get a flat spot on your edge, and if it is too far back, you will be cutting off material which will shorten the length of the piece you are working on
266987-3

Lastly is technique.  You need to make sure the boards are properly held down or pressed firmly up against the fence.

Edited to Add another example:
Here is a couple pieces of 3/4" MDO.  The actual thickness is a little shy of 3/4"  (.722)

So I take half of my thickness of the board (.361") and add it to half of my router bit measurement (.177") and get .538" which is how high the top edge of the top cutter gets set above the router table and then I use the same board with a straight edge to set the fence position as noted above.  Didn't even have to run any test cuts - looks right on after the first run
267018-4
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 06:19 PM by J0hn »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline antss

  • Posts: 1071
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2017, 05:32 PM »
The infinity jig Tom showed is much faster and simpler to use.  Being cheaper isn't a drawback either.

Of course it's not versatile like the gauge.

Offline J0hn

  • Posts: 40
Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2017, 06:43 PM »
I have looked at the Infinity Jigs  (I love buying new tools) but declined for a couple of reasons

Fine Wood working wrote a brief review and noted "You still need test cuts to dial in the setup to perfection, but Infinity’s jig gets you closer from the start."
http://www.finewoodworking.com/2014/10/01/lock-miter-jigs

I like repeatability.  I plane my own wood to 3/4" and I already know exactly how high to set the router bit for that thickness of wood and exactly where to set my Incra wonder fence/positioner.

Also, reading through some of the reviews on the Infinity web site, it appears the jigs work best with Ininity's lock miter bits - I have a Bosch bit which I am very happy with.  I also read that the jig doesn't really precisely fit the router bit - one user reported there is up to 2mm in play.  Lastly I prefer digital indicators with numbers versus matching up lines (old eyes)

To each his own, if something works for you, that is all that counts

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Lock Miter Tips and Tricks
« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2017, 09:44 PM »
I have looked at the Infinity Jigs  (I love buying new tools) but declined for a couple of reasons

Fine Wood working wrote a brief review and noted "You still need test cuts to dial in the setup to perfection, but Infinity’s jig gets you closer from the start."
http://www.finewoodworking.com/2014/10/01/lock-miter-jigs

I like repeatability.  I plane my own wood to 3/4" and I already know exactly how high to set the router bit for that thickness of wood and exactly where to set my Incra wonder fence/positioner.

Also, reading through some of the reviews on the Infinity web site, it appears the jigs work best with Ininity's lock miter bits - I have a Bosch bit which I am very happy with.  I also read that the jig doesn't really precisely fit the router bit - one user reported there is up to 2mm in play.  Lastly I prefer digital indicators with numbers versus matching up lines (old eyes)

To each his own, if something works for you, that is all that counts

I've never made a test cut. Set the bit and go.

In the video I posted there is no opportunity for a test cut. I had to set up the router for the fence and rail using 23/32nd plywood. Then had to set up the bit in CMS using 3/4" solid material, I split the center line and first tick mark on the jig to make up for the difference. You have trust your set up.

The jig works with both the lock miter bits I have, a Rockler and an Infinity.

Yes there is "play" in the jig, you place the jig on the bit, slide it up to the edge of the cutter. It does move about 2 mm by design.

I do own the Wixey you mention, I will give your set up method a try also.

Tom