Author Topic: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement  (Read 7153 times)

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Offline mbach

  • Posts: 7
MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« on: June 21, 2013, 11:57 PM »
Hello all,

I'm looking for setup assistance with my MFT/3. When I pivot the guide rail down onto the front rail rest there is wiggle or side to side movement of the guide rail. The movement appears to be from the tab/ groove interface it appears the tab is too narrow so the guide rail can move.

  Is there supposed to be play there?

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Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2524
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2013, 12:42 AM »
There is some play.  You have a couple of choices:

 - when you tighten the rail down, have it slipped slightly to the right when you tighten the allen screws that attach the rail to the back bracket so that when you pull it over the pin at the front of the table, it slides down on the pin to remove the slop
 - put duct tape over the pin at the front bracket to take up some of the slack
 - take a look at this - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tune-your-Festool-MFT-rail-with-Slop-Stop-/281109419787?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41736d570b

I actually have the slop stop on my MFT/3 and really like it for removing the slop.  Until I purchased it, I used the first technique above.

neil

Offline fastbike

  • Posts: 124
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2013, 08:18 AM »
Slop Stop is the way to go. Also found here: http://toolimprovements.net/Slop-Stop_Tune_your_MFT.php

Great guy.
I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.

Offline RL

  • Posts: 3039
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2013, 12:57 PM »
Slop stop is the way to go but until you get one, wrap some blue tape around the nub to take out the play.

Offline mbach

  • Posts: 7
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2013, 12:38 AM »
thank you all for your input; it's comforting to know I didn't simply poorly assemble the table. I will order the slop stop and use blue paint tape in the interim.

Offline Kwolsen

  • Posts: 15
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2018, 06:44 PM »
Regarding the side to side play in the rail when it’s lowered, are we really supposed to have to buy a 3rd party tool to make up for this crappy design ? Is there something I’m missing ?  Why did Festool make the rail have so much side to side play? Really? We need to buy all these ‘fixes’?

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2524
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2018, 09:08 PM »
Tool Improvements site is not working.  But Festool Products carries the Slop Stop.

https://www.festoolproducts.com/tool-improvements-slop-stop-for-festool-mft-tables-and-rails.html

@Kwolsen As an alternative, when tightening the rail on the back MFT attachment hinge, you can 'cant' it a bit such that the rail when down on the table, it is held tight to one side of the metal slot.  I believe that is detailed in one of the Festool rail setup videos.


Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 124
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2018, 11:05 PM »
Funny thing is, they know there is slop. Its been like this for years. They still going to keep charging you more for it every year and not fix it.

Offline Kwolsen

  • Posts: 15
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2018, 10:02 AM »
Thanks for the reply’s.  As one post said, I should ‘cant’ the rail a bit before tightening the rail, so that when the rail comes down,it against the metal ‘tab’, thus eliminating the play—-it seems like if I do that, the rail won’t be perpendicular to the table anymore.  Right?  But, is that tab really intended to make the rail perpendicular to the table? Or, just to provide support for the end of the rail ?  Seems like it’s just for support, since the other end is where it pivots.  If that’s the case, maybe there should be NO tab, and just enough surface for the rail to rest on?

 I’ve never experienced using a line of tools where so often the fix for various issues is “it’s mentioned in the users guide or the supplemental users guide”. Really wishing I would have put my money into a table saw, I just don’t have the garage space.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2018, 11:00 AM »
Perhaps these videos might give some assistance.







Peter


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3611
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2018, 12:36 PM »
The play between the tab and groove is supposed to be there. You can’t have a fit that is friction free and tight at the same time. Would you really want setting the guide rail down to be like fitting a dog in the hole?

You may notice that the guide rail is not fitted square to the hinged adjuster. It is angled to the right front corner slightly. This is so the slack is all over to one side of the groove in the guide rail and the left side of the tab is tight against the groove. This will work fine unless you leave the guide rail high off the work so the friction strips don’t make contact.

In use you simply pull the end of the rail to the left a little as you set it down on the tab. Easy-peasy.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5293
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Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2018, 12:37 PM »
 I’ve never experienced using a line of tools where so often the fix for various issues is “it’s mentioned in the users guide or the supplemental users guide”. Really wishing I would have put my money into a table saw, I just don’t have the garage space.
[/quote]

There isnt really aren't a lot of fixes. the slop in the tab for the rail for example is necessary. If it was a tighter tolerance then the rail would get damaged and we'd be here discussing how we'd be having to replace the rail.

Though i do use a stop slop, I was getting perfectly acceptable cuts w/o one.

However I wanted better so I got one.

Some people think that a MFT with a guide rail will cut like a $30,000 Aldendorf.

 Well it wont and neither will a regular table saw.

Even a tablesaw needs jigs ect to get accurate cross cuts, cross cut sleds etc. Just look at all the available accessories on the market to give you easier more accurate cuts.

 People buy things like bench dawgs etc to make it easier and faster just like I do.

For tables saws people buy INCRA products and a lot of other after market jigs, its a entire industry wrapped around table saws.

For me, the MFT w a TS 55  does all I need. If I have to spend $20 for a stop slop, and a few dawgs and make a few jigs, well thats woodworking.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 12:43 PM by jobsworth »

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1081
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2018, 04:30 AM »
Perhaps these videos might give some assistance.
And misinformation.

First video:

At 0:20 seconds the instructor sais 'bring in the rail holders from the long side as from the short won't work'. Apart from failing to realise that the stop blocks are moveable (thus can be set to yield a different position of the rail when registering the holders against them) he fails to mention that (as noted in some other MFT/3 alignment issues topics here) these can be out of alignment out of the box so to set them at least once on a new table would be a good idea.

At 2:45 the instructor is wiggling the rail on the front side holder, effectively demonstrating how bad these are. Also failed to instruct the trainees to buy a slop stop to fix this flawed design.

Lost interest after that.

Offline Kwolsen

  • Posts: 15
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2018, 02:43 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  The videos were very helpful.  I followed them exactly and now I’m getting 90 degree cuts.  Unfortunately the users guide doesn’t present the same method to align the track to the mft3.  But I’m good now and take back everything I said negative about Festool and still want a Domino. [wink]

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2018, 03:56 PM »
Perhaps these videos might give some assistance.
And misinformation.

First video:

At 0:20 seconds the instructor sais 'bring in the rail holders from the long side as from the short won't work'. Apart from failing to realise that the stop blocks are moveable (thus can be set to yield a different position of the rail when registering the holders against them) he fails to mention that (as noted in some other MFT/3 alignment issues topics here) these can be out of alignment out of the box so to set them at least once on a new table would be a good idea.

At 2:45 the instructor is wiggling the rail on the front side holder, effectively demonstrating how bad these are. Also failed to instruct the trainees to buy a slop stop to fix this flawed design.

Lost interest after that.

Steve was demonstrating how the MFT was designed and set up from the factory to be used.  Whether or not the father keys are set up perfectly to be square across the table is immaterial in this method of setting it up.  You are setting the rail to go across the table and then squaring the fence to the rail - not the way that many of us do it which is square the rail to the fence.  There are more than one way to set up the MFT's but Festool has prescribed one way and that is what the trainers teach.

Regarding the wiggle - the tab is tapered and once he got the guide rail fully down on it it stopped wiggling.  The trainers aren't allowed to recommend or demonstrate non-Festool accessories from what I was told.

As a non essential piece of non information I am the guy in the green shirt in too many of the shots back in 2010.

Peter

Offline jobsworth

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Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2018, 06:55 PM »
One thing I’ve noticed is every time I’ve taken a end user class I took 3 of them from Steve last one was in 2013.

Steve tweeted the way he set up the MFT and some other tools.

Sfteve says in his classes that he learns as much from his students as we do from him. Someone is always coming with a different take they picked up.
If that video is from 2010. Steve has changed things up quite a bit. The basic set is the same how ever little nuances change

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1081
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2018, 08:24 PM »
Peter,

sorry for being somewhat snarky about the video. If the video is from 2010 then what has learned since then should be incorporated in a new one (for you guys to link in topics like this) and spreading the old should be stopped.

The fact that the registration blocks can be moved - thus a setup where you insert the rail holders from the short side is possible, or to have the rail positioned in another location - should be communicated.

And it really dosn't look like he's lifting the rail while wiggling it. YMMV.

I get it that festool trainers are not ment to advertise 3rd party products, but that this one is effectively needed (according to plenty of topics here on the forum) should be fixed in the product. Festool should give the guy that makes it a bag of money to get a license to include the (effectively <50 cents effective production cost) part with each MFT/3.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2018, 08:40 PM »
Gregor,

Just to be clear, I play many roles, and I have no objection in any of them for what you said.  I was merely telling you what I saw and what I have heard.

Peter

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1563
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2018, 09:15 PM »
For starters the registration pin on the front support should be made from plastic. It's convenient to have a single stamped part, but plastic block and a screw would save thousands of users a lot of frustration.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/new-and-improved-guide-rail-support-unit-rsu2/msg534256/#msg534256
Plastic pin could be easily implemented on the existing Festool support without much modification.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 09:18 PM by Svar »

Offline Rob Z

  • Posts: 707
Re: MFT/3 guide rail side to side movement
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2018, 09:30 PM »
I had forgotten about that little plastic thingy that I installed on the MFT rail.  I had the rail off the other day and when I was reinstalling it I thought "Hmm, what is this thing". Then I remembered buying it after reading about it here on FOG. I think that is the only time I have bought something from Ebay.   [smile]