Author Topic: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head  (Read 4597 times)

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Offline friendly118

  • Posts: 12
I haven't been able to find an answer about using the MFT/3 without the protractor head.  My local tool shop has let me borrow an additional fence rail clamp as I saw this from Paul Marcel.  But he has a 1080 table no the MFT/3.  There is a bit of slop in the profile when the clamp is in place.  It doesn't matter how tight I set the clamps it still moves.  I am trying to accomplish this because my MFT is a more permanent fixture and space is at a premium in my work area.  Removing the protractor head gives me better than 7" of space.  In the images you can see the difference in fence position.

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Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1322
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2018, 02:05 PM »
Here's one way.  Many more have been discussed here on FOG.  You just have try a few to see what works best for you in different situations.



This will take the slop out if you want to use the rail with the Festool supports.
slop stop

« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 02:08 PM by RobBob »

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 246
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2018, 02:07 PM »
What I do is make sure the clamps are in a natural center. .meaning when tightened they won't be extended too far or the fence isn't so far back that it's pushing on the clamps. I do this by using a spacer cut out of MDF that fits in between the fence and the first available row of dog holes. It's a tight fit. I wedge the spacer in between two or three dogs and the fence then tighten the two clamps down.

It works okay but I know what you mean it isn't the best. If you really want to lock it down look into a set of Fence Dogs, https://benchdogs.co.uk/products/fence-dogs . The downside here is you will give up some cross cut capacity since it will necessarily move the fence forward to past the first row of dog holes coming from the back. I've thought about this and still might do it but I like having the fence all the way back. I recently picked up another MFT/3 and it came with two fence clamps. I might throw them on for a total of 4 and see how it goes. Wouldn't be practical for most as those things are about $40 a pop.

Edit: Looking at your pictures is your fence moving back/forward?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 02:10 PM by DynaGlide »

Offline friendly118

  • Posts: 12
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2018, 02:19 PM »
Here's one way.  Many more have been discussed here on FOG.  You just have try a few to see what works best for you in different situations.



This will take the slop out if you want to use the rail with the Festool supports.
slop stop

I want to be able to use the fence and have max capacity.  Thank you though.

Offline friendly118

  • Posts: 12
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2018, 02:24 PM »
What I do is make sure the clamps are in a natural center. .meaning when tightened they won't be extended too far or the fence isn't so far back that it's pushing on the clamps. I do this by using a spacer cut out of MDF that fits in between the fence and the first available row of dog holes. It's a tight fit. I wedge the spacer in between two or three dogs and the fence then tighten the two clamps down.

It works okay but I know what you mean it isn't the best. If you really want to lock it down look into a set of Fence Dogs, https://benchdogs.co.uk/products/fence-dogs . The downside here is you will give up some cross cut capacity since it will necessarily move the fence forward to past the first row of dog holes coming from the back. I've thought about this and still might do it but I like having the fence all the way back. I recently picked up another MFT/3 and it came with two fence clamps. I might throw them on for a total of 4 and see how it goes. Wouldn't be practical for most as those things are about $40 a pop.

Edit: Looking at your pictures is your fence moving back/forward?
I am hoping for max cut capacity.  I thought about putting the clamps on so that they would be against the rail so if it moved at all I would know it needs to be pushed against the clamp to be in the set location as shown in my picture with the space at the back.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 246
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2018, 02:26 PM »
@friendly118

I think I see your problem. Your top knob on the clamp is in the wrong position. Completely remove it and move it to the other position. So it looks like this:





And here's what I was talking about above:




Offline Billedis

  • Posts: 613
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2018, 02:36 PM »
Does anyone know the part number of the clamp, I would like to get another.  Thank you Bill

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 644
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline friendly118

  • Posts: 12
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2018, 08:03 PM »
@DynaGlide

I tried the clamp in both screw hole positions with the same result.  On the bottom of the clamp where it bites in the profile of the fence there is a gap.  So even if I tighten the clamp down as tight as I can it still moves to easily for my liking.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2352
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2018, 08:09 PM »
From the pictures, it looks like the rail is oriented totally different in the two sets of pictures.
Birdhunter

Offline friendly118

  • Posts: 12
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2018, 08:11 PM »
@Birdhunter

The pics just show the play that is in the fence when the clamp is holding it down.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 246
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2018, 08:37 PM »
I can tilt mine up if I push from the bottom but it is dead solid otherwise

Offline friendly118

  • Posts: 12
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2018, 09:03 PM »
@DynaGlide

I just double checked with the screw in the other position and yes same result.  I tried moving the clamps a bit closer together like in your pic.... same result.  I got out the feeler gauges and checked the gap.  It is .033. That's crazy!!

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 246
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2018, 09:25 PM »
So your fence moves front to back and vice versa? I can't move mine.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1008
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2018, 12:30 AM »
So your fence moves front to back and vice versa? I can't move mine.
Same here.

Setting the MFT up I push the fence against the clamps, tighten these, then square the rail to the fence.
No problems, fence stays in place.

Possible solutions to the problem of the fence moving away from the back of the table with the fence clamps:
Either put a piece of double-sided tape into the bottom of the groove in the extrusion (adding adhesive friction) -or- drop a fitting strip of something uncompressible into the gap that opens when the fence moved away from the clamp.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 01:05 AM by Gregor »

Online Peter_C

  • Posts: 691
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2018, 12:36 AM »
Since I haven't bought a second fence clamp, I use the fence clamp at the rail side, but where the fence doesn't drop in height, and a regular clamp on the farthest side from the rail to lock it down. It gets adjust to 90* with a Woodpeckers 26" square. Rock solid for me.

Otherwise I use my Woodpeckers parallel guide rails and rail dogs so I can zero it and have stops with accurate measuring. 

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 246
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2018, 05:25 AM »
Now I really don't think it's going anywhere. I threw on the other two clamps I had lying around

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1840
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2018, 12:03 PM »
If you need 4 there is something still not right. I can't tell you what it is but I would go to your dealer's display and see if there is something you are missing. I see 4 clamps and two tables. It is hard to believe they are all different from what others have where the description of your problem does not exist. If it is operator error please don't feel bad about what I am saying. I was very confused with this particular clamp in the beginning as well and felt there must have been some sort of design flaw. It took far too long for the light bulb moment.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 246
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2018, 12:17 PM »
If you need 4 there is something still not right. I can't tell you what it is but I would go to your dealer's display and see if there is something you are missing. I see 4 clamps and two tables. It is hard to believe they are all different from what others have where the description of your problem does not exist. If it is operator error please don't feel bad about what I am saying. I was very confused with this particular clamp in the beginning as well and felt there must have been some sort of design flaw. It took far too long for the light bulb moment.
@greg mann
I'm not the OP. No problems here. I did that just for kicks but two of them are now on a second fence for offcuts.

Offline friendly118

  • Posts: 12
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2018, 12:49 AM »
I think I may try to drill some holes into a pair of veritas dogs make something to fit the fence profile and have a cam style lock.

Thank you all for the input and insight. I appreciate the discussion with knowledgeable people.

Offline friendly118

  • Posts: 12
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2018, 02:56 AM »
@DynaGlide

I have come across a solution that I will be able to execute with a pair of Veritas bench dogs.  I will lose a bit of rip capacity because I will have to move the fence up passed the first row of dog holes.  Or maybe I can drill a couple new holes to accommodate the bench dogs.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 246
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2018, 05:17 AM »
Yes I've seen those and others. They are tempting for their simplicity I just didn't want to give up any cross cut capacity.

Offline friendly118

  • Posts: 12
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2018, 06:00 AM »
I think this may be my easiest solution. Not to mention, the second clamp I have is on loan and being as I can't get sound results the cost is much less.  I will post some pictures when I achieve my final setup.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 246
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2018, 08:33 AM »
I think this may be my easiest solution. Not to mention, the second clamp I have is on loan and being as I can't get sound results the cost is much less.  I will post some pictures when I achieve my final setup.

@friendly118 Let us know how it works. I'm not opposed to them.

Offline sprior

  • Posts: 409
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2018, 04:44 PM »
@DynaGlide

I have come across a solution that I will be able to execute with a pair of Veritas bench dogs.  I will lose a bit of rip capacity because I will have to move the fence up passed the first row of dog holes.  Or maybe I can drill a couple new holes to accommodate the bench dogs.

That's just some nut with a 3D printer....
The design is on a site called Thingiverse.

Offline friendly118

  • Posts: 12
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2018, 07:38 AM »
@sprior
I'm guessing this is your design.  Well done.  I don't intend on using your print mainly because I don't have a 3d printer.  I do however want to do something simple to mount my fence.  I will either drill holes in dogs or just mount a strip to the back edge of my table and use some 6m bolts to fasten the fence.

Offline sprior

  • Posts: 409
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2018, 09:05 AM »
Yeah it's mine.  When I started another thread on this subject here I thought there were options for sale, but there weren't.  Certainly didn't go into that thinking that I'd end up providing one.  By the end of the discussion a new product came into the market.

Offline friendly118

  • Posts: 12
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2018, 09:24 PM »
@sprior
Do you sell yours or is it just the file for download by donation?  Or is there another product on the market?  If nothing is for sale, how much does it cost to print should I find someone with a 3-D printer?

Offline sprior

  • Posts: 409
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2018, 10:46 PM »
@friendly118 I posted the design for free on Thingiverse without any expectation of payment, if someone feels like using the tip function that's fine, but not at all required.  I did end up selling a couple of sets directly because they asked me to since they didn't have access to a 3D printer and I sold them complete sets including the required nuts and bolts mentioned in the Thingiverse page.  I didn't do this with any intention of selling them.

Since I started the other discussion thread here it seems that TSO came out with a product with the same inspiration that's made out of metal.  If a product had existed when I started the discussion (which I expected) I would have just bought it, but when nothing seemed to exist I went ahead and designed my own.  I'm actually pretty happy with my version and have used it a fair amount lately, it seems as accurate as anything else.

As far as the price to get someone to print it for you I can't really tell since I do have a printer it only cost me the minimal amount for the plastic and nuts and bolts.  I will say that an increasing number of public libraries offer access to a 3D printer for not a lot of money.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2352
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: MFT/3 securing the fence without using the protractor head
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2018, 05:07 AM »
I’ve read this thread a couple of times and, except for gaining a few inches of cutting depth, why would one want to use a back fence?

A few lined up dogs provide a reference for the wood and the rail is easily aligned 90 degrees to the holes. My protractor and my fence have never been used. If I was cutting something other than 90 or 45, I’d use the protractor..... maybe.
Birdhunter