Festool Owners Group

FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Festool How To... => Topic started by: redbirdone on June 19, 2017, 11:01 PM

Title: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: redbirdone on June 19, 2017, 11:01 PM
So I need to get a router table that fits a OF 1400.  Will the CMS table work?  It's just not clear looking at the Festool site or other sellers' sites. 
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: Bohdan on June 19, 2017, 11:12 PM
The CMS-OF fits all of the festool routers.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: redbirdone on June 19, 2017, 11:15 PM
Thanks!

Gone through a lot of sites and it's not clear.

Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: copcarcollector on June 20, 2017, 12:10 AM
In n America the cms is only approved for use with the 1010 and 1400 routers.
You may find the parts included for th 2200 router in the cms box, but festool says use of the 2200 router will void the warranty

Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: Birdhunter on June 20, 2017, 05:53 AM
I looked at that option and decided against it. I kept the 1400 for hand work and built a router table using a Porter Cable motor and a commercial lift. To me, the 1400 is way too useful to hide under a router table. Also, I needed a much larger and much sturdier table and did not need the CMS portability. I didn't care that much for the CMS fence. The CMS sliding table is really neat.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: Naildrivingman on June 20, 2017, 06:06 AM
In n America the cms is only approved for use with the 1010 and 1400 routers.
You may find the parts included for th 2200 router in the cms box, but festool says use of the 2200 router will void the warranty

Well...that's just dumb!

I own a 1400 and while it probably can be a fixed router it is not my first choice. I believe that the main and maybe only purpose for a fixed router is when one cannot justify the cost of an actual shaper. I believe that a fixed router should be as powerful as possible.  I don't see the 1400 running wide panel bits very efficiently. I'm sure it can, but with how many passes?

To limit the CMS to the 1010 and the 1400 (or similarly sized) means that I will definitely not buy the CMS.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: Sparktrician on June 20, 2017, 07:01 PM
In n America the cms is only approved for use with the 1010 and 1400 routers.
You may find the parts included for th 2200 router in the cms box, but festool says use of the 2200 router will void the warranty

Well...that's just dumb!

I own a 1400 and while it probably can be a fixed router it is not my first choice. I believe that the main and maybe only purpose for a fixed router is when one cannot justify the cost of an actual shaper. I believe that a fixed router should be as powerful as possible.  I don't see the 1400 running wide panel bits very efficiently. I'm sure it can, but with how many passes?

To limit the CMS to the 1010 and the 1400 (or similarly sized) means that I will definitely not buy the CMS.

Just so you know, the OF 2200 fits the CMS perfectly.  Festool USA doesn't want us to use the OF 2200 in the CMS due to the current-carrying capability of the CMS switch.  The switch is limited to 13.5 amps, but the OF 2200 can draw up to 20 amps at 110 volts or 17.6 amps at 125 volts.  It is possible to overcome this.  PM me if you want to know more. 
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: ear3 on June 22, 2017, 08:23 AM
While also an expensive prospect, you should know that Jessem makes a router lift that accommodates the 1400 (and 1010), the only non-Festool lift to do so to my knowledge.  That means you are not limited to the CMS as far as router tables are concerned, and can build one around the Jessem lift if you so desire:

http://www.jessemdirect.com/product_p/02320.htm
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: Roseland on June 22, 2017, 11:09 AM
Firstly I agree with the other posters that the OF1400 is not really suited to use in a table.  Height adjustment and bit changes are downright awkward.

For a fraction of the cost of a CMS, I'd say get yourself a Triton Router, and router insert plate and make your own table, it's not difficult and a lot of fun.

Andrew
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: ear3 on June 22, 2017, 03:32 PM
+1

For a fraction of the cost of a CMS, I'd say get yourself a Triton Router, and router insert plate and make your own table, it's not difficult and a lot of fun.

Andrew
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: Birdhunter on June 22, 2017, 05:02 PM
I seriously doubt the Festool CMS is the optimal table for doing raised panels. I am not a professional, but have done more than a few raised panel doors and I like to have a much larger top surface and a much sturdier table.

Those huge panel  bits scare me! I have always used the vertical panel bits and take multiple passes. A Porter Call motor in a lift have proved very effective.

If I were doing panels for a living, I'd definitely prefer a shaper.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: ShadyMaple on June 22, 2017, 06:26 PM
I found a good used CMS for sale when I was in your same boat - I had a 1400 and wanted to use it so I wanted a table.   It's my biggest tool buying regret.

At the time, the CMS being so portable was really the key for me - as I didn't have a dedicated shop.  Now that I have space, and if I had to rebuy everything now, I'd buy a lift/fence from Nextwave automation (ready2rout) and drop it in a Kreg or Woodpeckers table.  The cost of this system + a dedicated router would be about the same as a CMS and be much more flexible.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: jobsworth on July 02, 2017, 07:54 PM
The CMS comes with the inserts, guide rings for the 2200. So when I moved to the UK. My 2200 magically worked in my CMS now that I'm back in the US of course I won't use it in my CMS as it is not allowed here. So when my container gets her I won't mount my 2200 back in my CMS.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: rst on July 03, 2017, 07:31 AM
Right Jobsworth... [wink]  I don't use my two 2200s in my CMS' either.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: bigmoguls on August 16, 2017, 10:09 PM
+1

I built a whole table w/ 3hp motor and Jessem lift for about the same cost as an OF1400.

+1

For a fraction of the cost of a CMS, I'd say get yourself a Triton Router, and router insert plate and make your own table, it's not difficult and a lot of fun.

Andrew
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: QuailRider43 on August 17, 2017, 12:25 AM
Love my Jessem table with Porter Cable 7518 3.25HP motor.  It's a killer combination if you don't need portability.  Save the OF1400 for hand held work.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: J0hn on August 17, 2017, 01:18 AM
^^^^^ this

Festool OF 1400................................$570
Festool CMS-VL MFT/3 Router Table.....$1,080
                                                        $1,650

vs

Porter Cable  75182 Motor Only...........$288
INCRA Mast-R-Lift-II Router Lift...........$340
INCRA Router Fence & Table combo......$712
                                                        $1,340

http://www.incrementaltools.com/Router_Fence_and_Table_Combo_3_p/rtcombo-3.htm

Or if you want to go all out, get the ultimate package
http://www.incrementaltools.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RTCOMBO-3-TW
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: Bert Vanderveen on August 17, 2017, 09:10 AM
I seriously doubt the Festool CMS is the optimal table for doing raised panels. I am not a professional, but have done more than a few raised panel doors and I like to have a much larger top surface and a much sturdier table.

IMO a VL added to a MFT/3 would solve your problem. You can attach the VL to any side of a MFT/3 and also use the CMS/OF insert turned 180 degrees — which would give you a at least 4 1/2 feet wide surface. The MFT/3 with the (supplemental) braces is quite sturdy and the VL adds to that.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: Dovetail65 on August 17, 2017, 09:37 AM
First o answer the post, why place an OF1400 in a table at all, it for hand use, not table use. It;s not the best way to spend money nor the best use of this particular router.


For 1150.00 you can get a little Jet 1.5hp shaper that uses an induction motor and has a reverse. It will blow away any router table(and can be used as a router table) for making raised panel. It can use router bits and shaper cutters. It even uses 1/2" and 3/4" spindles. 

So when I see people dropping 1500.00 on a router table(I have done so many times) to do raised panels I kind of tilt my head. Once you run a raised panel through even this little shaper you won't go back to even the largest of routers. That quiet hum and low end  power just can't be beat of the induction motor. The 1.5hp induction motor, IMHO, blows the 3.5hp universal router motors away and puts them to shame, for use with the larger bits especially. And let's not get to the 3HP shaper tables of course that is the way to go if you have the cash for raised panels.

Of course I have had both shaper tables and router tables and each has their use, but if I could have only one and had only 1200.00, I would take a long hard look at that Jet 1.5hp shaper. Of course it has to stay in the shop but it's footprint is very small. I even made a larger table for mine.  I think Shane sells these little shapers.

I had good luck with my Jet, some other reviewers didn't like theirs. Shop Fox makes a 2HP for even less at 1050.00 that seems to get nicer reviews as well. 1134.00 including shipping for a 2HP induction motor shaper table, it seems like a steal and the table top seems larger than the Jets. Unless it simply doesn't turn on there is no way possibly it isn't far better than any router table for raised panels.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-HP-Shaper/W1674?gclid=CjwKCAjw_dTMBRBHEiwApIzn_OxWbxB9nSRATIVMwO3k48IniA8itml-pVnsY-yWfcy31Tb5kcDDABoCi_AQAvD_BwE&utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com

Say all you want about Girzzy or Shop Fox, this is still better for the same cost as any router table, especially for the larger bits like raised panels..
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: JimH2 on August 17, 2017, 03:38 PM
In n America the cms is only approved for use with the 1010 and 1400 routers.
You may find the parts included for th 2200 router in the cms box, but festool says use of the 2200 router will void the warranty

The 2200 use "will void your warranty" statement is just plain foolish. Yes they are telling you not to do it, but they also have no way of telling whether you have done so.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: J0hn on August 17, 2017, 04:45 PM

Say all you want about Girzzy or Shop Fox, this is still better for the same cost as any router table, especially for the larger bits like raised panels..

laughable and not worth replying to
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: antss on August 17, 2017, 07:52 PM

Say all you want about Girzzy or Shop Fox, this is still better for the same cost as any router table, especially for the larger bits like raised panels..

laughable and not worth replying to


Spoken like a true internet jockey that has little practical experience.   We're glad you like your router table though.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: HowardH on November 19, 2017, 09:36 PM
I ordered a CMS GE system and it's going to arrive tomorrow.  For me, I want to keep my shop space uncluttered and having the ability to fold it up and put it out of the way when not in use is key.  In addition, I sold off a Kreg router table because it took up quite a bit of space and the dust collection was horrific.  Even with two hoses connected, one to the table and one to the fence.  From what I can see, the CMS dust collection is vastly superior.  Yeah, it was a lot of money but so were all the other Festools I own.  Someday, whenever that is, when I have a dedicated shop, I'll own a shaper but until that happens, I'm sure I'll be pretty happy with the CMS. 
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: Bohdan on November 19, 2017, 10:48 PM
In n America the cms is only approved for use with the 1010 and 1400 routers.
You may find the parts included for th 2200 router in the cms box, but festool says use of the 2200 router will void the warranty

Most of us don't use the 2200 in the CMS in the USA because of the warranty issue, It works great BTW

My question is "Which warranty?" The CMS or the OF2200.

If for the CMS then there is not a lot that can go wrong other than the power switch.

If for the OF2200 then how come it's OK in the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: Peter Halle on November 20, 2017, 03:44 AM
Here is the official statement from Festool USA regarding the use of items other than the 1010 or 1400 in the CMS table:

Warning: The Festool CMS System is approved for use with only the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers in the US and Canadian markets.  It is not approved for use with the OF 2200, nor with any of the CMS modules currently available outside the US and Canadian markets (TS, Jigsaw and sanding modules).  Festool USA does not  endorse the use of these components and will not support them with spare  parts or repairs. The use of anything other than the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers and their related accessories with the CMS will void the warranty agreement on the entire system for customers within the US and Canada. Festool does not endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual.

Peter
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: Sparktrician on November 20, 2017, 05:18 PM
My question is "Which warranty?" The CMS or the OF2200.

If for the CMS then there is not a lot that can go wrong other than the power switch.

If for the OF2200 then how come it's OK in the rest of the world.

First, I do not speak for Festool USA. 

Second, it has to do with the CMS' power switch switch being rated at 13.5 amps, which is well under the max amperage that the OF 2200 for the NA market CAN draw under full load. 

Third, the NA models of the OF 2200 are for use on 125 volts, not 250 volts as in much of the rest of the world.  When you halve the voltage, you double the current. 

Capisce? 
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: Rob-GB on November 20, 2017, 10:27 PM
I run a 110v OF2200 in my 110v CMS in the UK with no issues, (they are sold together as a package) and run off a 16 amp breaker with a 13 amp fused plug going to the 240v to 110v transformer....Oh! the hoops us Brits have to jump through to work on site  [mad]
The only reason for the whole issue is the US and Canada safety bods being dumb so Festool have to cover their company's rear end from the super litigious mentality that exists.
So if you run an OF2200 in a CMS over there and stick your hand in the cutter going full tilt you are actually responsible for your own actions and ambulance chasing lawyers don't get a big payday , for a change  [big grin]

I think I have shown that the OF2200 and CMS combination works really well and is in the big leagues of router tables from some of my project posts.
It is based on a spindle moulder/shaper set up and if you have had experience of them you will instinctively know how to best utilise it. Micro adjustment on router table fences is redundant, you need to set up a datum to work from for each cutter which takes as much work as setting up for the actual cut. It also has a rare trick up it's sleeve, apart from portability, that a spindle moulder/shaper (and most router tables) can't do, (I am not alluding to the obvious ability of taking the router out to use alone elsewhere).
Turn the plate upside down Like this link (http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/cms-of-table-more-useful-than-meets-the-eye/msg382486/#msg382486)
Answer hidden in line above [wink].
Rob.
Title: Re: Need a router table for a OF 1400
Post by: tbaughdad on November 21, 2017, 05:19 PM
So I need to get a router table that fits a OF 1400.  Will the CMS table work?  It's just not clear looking at the Festool site or other sellers' sites.
I have an extra CMS router lift - table that I would like to get rid of. You would have to make a table to put it in however. PM me if interested.