Author Topic: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS  (Read 5353 times)

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Offline bremner

  • Posts: 30
Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« on: October 17, 2015, 12:06 PM »
Hello,

I have a Mirka DEROS finishing sander that I use with my CT26 with the boomarm and I'm sick of having to plug the Mirka directly into the CT26 rather than the plug-it cable thats on the end of the boom arm. Not only is a pain to bend down and swap the plugs over the wire itself is not suspended from the boom arm defeating the object of having the boom arm.
I found the Plug-it conversion kit (491144) on my Festool suppliers website and thought it would be the ideal solution to convert the Mirka to use the Festool plug-it system.
I received it this week and have tried to wire it up this weekend but have hit a stumbling block that I hope you guys can help me with.

The problem I've got is I can't see a way to get the wires out of the plug-it kit (see the picture below) they won't pull out and I've tried tapping the pins on the other side but no joy? I'm getting the impression they are made not to come out?



If I can get the wires out I can then wire in the plug that goes into the DEROS and bobs your uncle, I can't get the plug off the lead that plugs into the DEROS as its moulded, the only other way I can see to get this done if I can't get the wires out of the plug-it connector is to splice the two wires together then heat shrink but I didn't really want to go this route.

Any help is appreciated.

Cheers, Andy.

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Offline neeleman

  • Posts: 1167
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2015, 04:18 PM »
You should ask @Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits
He knows all about Plug-it conversion of other brand machines.
He also mentioned on the FOG that the Mirka Ceros/Deros machines cannot be fitted with the Plug-it conversion kits.
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Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2015, 03:44 AM »
I think you're trying to use the wrong end of the plug it adaptor.

When I converted a tool to use the plug it cable, I took the wires out of the machine itself and replaced them with the free swinging wires that come in the 491144/45 leaving you with a stubby plug it sticking out of the back of the tool.

I understand the Mirka has a transformer inline with the cable? I presume to convert it to plug it you'd be looking to take the wires out of the "plug" end of the transformer? Not as elegant a solution with the Mirka as you still have a lot of cable with a transformer on it, probably why people don't bother.

I suppose you could just connect the wires using an IP rated inline connector to add re-movability after the transformer.
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Offline bremner

  • Posts: 30
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2015, 05:14 AM »
You should ask @Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits
He knows all about Plug-it conversion of other brand machines.
He also mentioned on the FOG that the Mirka Ceros/Deros machines cannot be fitted with the Plug-it conversion kits.

Thanks for the advice mate I've sent him a PM.

I think you're trying to use the wrong end of the plug it adaptor.

When I converted a tool to use the plug it cable, I took the wires out of the machine itself and replaced them with the free swinging wires that come in the 491144/45 leaving you with a stubby plug it sticking out of the back of the tool.

I understand the Mirka has a transformer inline with the cable? I presume to convert it to plug it you'd be looking to take the wires out of the "plug" end of the transformer? Not as elegant a solution with the Mirka as you still have a lot of cable with a transformer on it, probably why people don't bother.

I suppose you could just connect the wires using an IP rated inline connector to add re-movability after the transformer.

Your thinking of the Mirka CEROS with the transformer, I have the DEROS which has no transformer. On the DEROS you have a separate lead were one end is plugged into the tool and the other end to the wall/extractor so theres no wire to replace, basically whats needed is a lead where one end is a plug-it female and the other is a Mirka male that goes into the sander.
My plan was to cut the mirk lead and wire it into the plug-it lead but I don't think the wires are removable from the plug-it kit so I may need to splice them together.

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1608
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2015, 05:46 AM »
Doesn't the Deros use a "kettle" connector? Could you not get a re-wireable one of those?

(NOTE: I'm no expert on Deros sanders but I'm sure I read somewhere that it's a standard IEC connector; please don't take my word for it though)

[NOTE: Tools from other manufacturers are of course available. As this is the Festool Owners Group, I tend to limit my advice to the tools that Festool sell, and assume that you've come to this site to get advice on Festool tools and because the level of skill and experience of the community here outstrips most you'll find elsewhere. If you *are* interested in tools from other manufacturers, please mention it in your post and also take the time to visit their user forums too.]

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Offline bremner

  • Posts: 30
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2015, 05:59 AM »
Doesn't the Deros use a "kettle" connector? Could you not get a re-wireable one of those?

(NOTE: I'm no expert on Deros sanders but I'm sure I read somewhere that it's a standard IEC connector; please don't take my word for it though)

(Attachment Link)

Its very similar but the middle prong/hole it different.


Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1608
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2015, 06:18 AM »
Its very similar but the middle prong/hole it different.

Ah, OK. That's a shame.

The Plug-it cables are molded so I don't believe you can remove the cable, and even if you could, I doubt you could replace it successfully.
[NOTE: Tools from other manufacturers are of course available. As this is the Festool Owners Group, I tend to limit my advice to the tools that Festool sell, and assume that you've come to this site to get advice on Festool tools and because the level of skill and experience of the community here outstrips most you'll find elsewhere. If you *are* interested in tools from other manufacturers, please mention it in your post and also take the time to visit their user forums too.]

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Offline sae

  • Posts: 841
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2015, 10:46 AM »
Plug-its are also non-grounded, while the Deros requires a ground.

Offline bremner

  • Posts: 30
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2015, 10:51 AM »
Plug-its are also non-grounded, while the Deros requires a ground.

Will the DEROS categorically not work without a ground/earth?

Offline sae

  • Posts: 841
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2015, 11:25 AM »
Depends on the electrical design, really.

The Festools are made to be double insulated so they can be non-earthed, it's possible the Deros is as well and the ground is just a redundancy, but you won't know unless you tear it apart.

Offline bremner

  • Posts: 30
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2015, 11:31 AM »
Depends on the electrical design, really.

The Festools are made to be double insulated so they can be non-earthed, it's possible the Deros is as well and the ground is just a redundancy, but you won't know unless you tear it apart.

If I cut open the Mirka lead and connected the neutral and live to the neutral and the live on the plug-it kit and just left the earth cut whats the worst that could happen? As you can probably tell I'm not up on electronics, changing plugs etc is about where my knowledge runs out.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2015, 03:10 PM »
Here is a link to what I believe might be the connector you are looking for:  http://www.onlinecomponents.com/datasheet/h320c.aspx?p=11518130

Peter
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Offline bremner

  • Posts: 30
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2015, 03:17 PM »
Here is a link to what I believe might be the connector you are looking for:  http://www.onlinecomponents.com/datasheet/h320c.aspx?p=11518130

Peter

Thanks for that mate, I'll look into it if I can get away with eliminating the ground/earth wire. Doe's anybody know what the repercussions might be if I don't use the earth/ground?

Offline sae

  • Posts: 841
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2015, 03:45 PM »
The tool should run, the ground is a redundancy to keep you from getting electrocuted should something in the tool fail, and to provide an outlet for static electricity buildup.




Check on the outside of the Deros, there may be a IEC marking that tells you if it's double insulated or not.

Class 1 looks like this, and requires a ground:

Class 2 is like this:

Read more here: https://www.quora.com/Does-the-third-ground-prong-on-electrical-plugs-improve-safety

Offline bremner

  • Posts: 30
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2015, 04:00 PM »
The tool should run, the ground is a redundancy to keep you from getting electrocuted should something in the tool fail, and to provide an outlet for static electricity buildup.




Check on the outside of the Deros, there may be a IEC marking that tells you if it's double insulated or not.

Class 1 looks like this, and requires a ground:

Class 2 is like this:

Read more here: https://www.quora.com/Does-the-third-ground-prong-on-electrical-plugs-improve-safety

Thanks very much for that I'll have a look on the tool tomorrow when I'm on site.

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1608
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2015, 05:30 PM »
Here is a link to what I believe might be the connector you are looking for:  http://www.onlinecomponents.com/datasheet/h320c.aspx?p=11518130

That's not the same Peter - the two bottom connections are horizontal and should be vertical given the previous photo.
[NOTE: Tools from other manufacturers are of course available. As this is the Festool Owners Group, I tend to limit my advice to the tools that Festool sell, and assume that you've come to this site to get advice on Festool tools and because the level of skill and experience of the community here outstrips most you'll find elsewhere. If you *are* interested in tools from other manufacturers, please mention it in your post and also take the time to visit their user forums too.]

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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2015, 08:09 PM »
Here is a link to what I believe might be the connector you are looking for:  http://www.onlinecomponents.com/datasheet/h320c.aspx?p=11518130

That's not the same Peter - the two bottom connections are horizontal and should be vertical given the previous photo.

OOPS!  I posted the wrong search result.  Thanks Garry!  I will go looking for the other one I found.

Peter
Scraps to Smiles.  To be continued.....  Stay Tuned.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3190
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2015, 09:00 AM »
As a temporary fix, couldn't you run a short 3plug extension from the CT so you could have multiple things connected to the vac?

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Offline bremner

  • Posts: 30
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2015, 03:14 PM »
Thanks for all your help and suggestions guys but I've received a message back from Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits and going off what he says its not really possible and potentially unsafe so I'll just have to carry on struggling i think.

Message read:

Quote
Hi there!

I did have the Mirka Deros myself, and it is a brilliant sander. However it is not convertable to Plug It because it does not have a double insulated two stranded power cord like most other machines do - pretty much every other machine out there has it and I have converted many non Festool machines to Plug It, maybe twenty-twenty five of them.

Mirka Deros instead has a three stranded power cable, the third wire being ground. The double insulated machines don't have the ground wire. No Plug It cable has a ground wire in them and they are all two stranded and relying on the machine being double insulated. For this reason you cannot remove the proprietary connecting and grounded socket from the Mirka and replace it with a two stranded Plug It cord. Not only do you need the ground wire to the machine, the machine would also be illegal and possibly dangerous to use. Most people don't care about legal/illegal or warranty void but I am more worried about the potential operational issues and tripping ground breakers all the time.

If it had been "possible" I would have done it. I am not saying it is impossible though, but it would require a lot of work.
It can probably be made but I am not sure it would be worth the trouble as it would be a major operation, with the above caveats.

In the end I got myself a Festool ETS EC 150 - but I still prefer the Mirka.

All the best! If you find a way to do it - do let me know!

/ Henrik

Thanks again guys.

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1608
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2015, 03:22 PM »
In which case I'm with Edward - buy a second cable and leave it permanently connected to the boom arm and have both it and a Plug-It attached to an extension lead that is *then* plugged into the CT.

I changed the single gang extension lead on my CT with boom arm to a double one using the following;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterplug-Permaplug-ELS132B-2-Gang-Trailing/dp/B004TRSSIQ/ref=sr_1_31?ie=UTF8&qid=1445368838

Although I note the four gang alternative is cheaper if you want more sockets;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterplug-ELS134B-4-Gang-Permaplug-Trailing/dp/B0085HXFXY/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&qid=1445368838


[NOTE: Tools from other manufacturers are of course available. As this is the Festool Owners Group, I tend to limit my advice to the tools that Festool sell, and assume that you've come to this site to get advice on Festool tools and because the level of skill and experience of the community here outstrips most you'll find elsewhere. If you *are* interested in tools from other manufacturers, please mention it in your post and also take the time to visit their user forums too.]

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Offline VesaS

  • Posts: 68
Re: Plug-it conversion kit and Mirka DEROS
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2017, 09:01 AM »
Bit old thread, I know. Just looking Mirka sander myself and bump to this.

You can make Plug-it conversion to it. Sort of.

Buy Neutrik PowerCon connectors, 1 Female and 2 Male
- http://www.neutrik.com/en/powercon-20a/
- http://www.neutrik.com/en/power/powercon-true1/

Make short adapter cables for both Festool and Mirka
- cut existing tool cords maybe 30 - 50 cm from tool end
- put PowerCon Male connector on the cut end of short part of cord
- put PowerCon Female connector on a new, 3 wire power cord. This must be normal power cord in your country, suitable for watts / amperage of desired use. Length as needed.

--
Important! If you think you can do this, ask qualified electrician to do it. Few €/$/£ is not worth of risking your life.
--

Now you have
- two short cables/adapters, one end is PowerCon Male and Mirka/Festool connector on the other end
- one (or make several) longer power cable, PowerCon Female at one end and normal mains connector on other
You can attach these long cords to boom arm / table / what ever

Note, for Festool you can use PUR 420 (491145) as well


Vesa
Hobbyist with high demands (for tools)