Author Topic: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??  (Read 2201 times)

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Offline Bugsysiegals

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Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« on: April 20, 2019, 09:10 PM »
I've a really nice SawStop with Incra fence but figured I'd use my TS55 and MFT/3 to cut some cabinet parts.  An optimizer had laid out stetchers so that they would be cross cut from a width I'd ripped previously.  The stretchers were 100mm wide which meant I couldn't use the end stops to make repeatable cuts.  I know they're only stretchers but it took a lot of time continuously marking and aligning the guide rail for these cuts.  Is there something I've not considered here that would have made it easier and repeatable?

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5947
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Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2019, 10:43 PM »
I have mine set up with a piece of fence to the right of the rail bolted to the table. I can place a flag stop right of the rail.

Other option is a 12" long spacer under the rail, leading edge 100mm from the cut line, clamp the spacer to the table.

Tom


Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 162
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2019, 11:11 PM »
Thanks Tom, I was thinking I’d have to use the MFT to cut to rough size and the SawStop for final dimensioning so I really appreciate your feedback. That said, I’ll move my MFT so I have better support to the right where I can extend the fence and use end stops. Could you share some pics of your setup?

I’d not considered the scrap piece!!  My guide rail is aligned with the dog holes so I could put a few bench dogs before the guide rail and use an appropriately sized spacer underneath the guide rail to give me 100mm square cuts or whatever other size I need.  is 4” a good size for stretchers or do you recommend another size?

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2019, 09:24 AM »
I've a really nice SawStop with Incra fence but figured I'd use my TS55 and MFT/3 to cut some cabinet parts.  An optimizer had laid out stetchers so that they would be cross cut from a width I'd ripped previously.  The stretchers were 100mm wide which meant I couldn't use the end stops to make repeatable cuts.  I know they're only stretchers but it took a lot of time continuously marking and aligning the guide rail for these cuts.  Is there something I've not considered here that would have made it easier and repeatable?

@Bugsysiegals  - could you post a picture of the problem you encountered when trying to use the MFT/3 to make these stretcher cuts?
I would like to see if we have a solution in the works for this situation but can't quite get "the picture".

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2019, 10:09 AM »
It’s just a stretcher. In could be trapezoid shaped as long as one long edge ends in 90* angles on both ends. 4” deep is minimal but okay.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5947
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2019, 10:12 AM »
I've a really nice SawStop with Incra fence but figured I'd use my TS55 and MFT/3 to cut some cabinet parts.  An optimizer had laid out stetchers so that they would be cross cut from a width I'd ripped previously.  The stretchers were 100mm wide which meant I couldn't use the end stops to make repeatable cuts.  I know they're only stretchers but it took a lot of time continuously marking and aligning the guide rail for these cuts.  Is there something I've not considered here that would have made it easier and repeatable?

@Bugsysiegals  - could you post a picture of the problem you encountered when trying to use the MFT/3 to make these stretcher cuts?
I would like to see if we have a solution in the works for this situation but can't quite get "the picture".

Hans

Hans, I have an idea for this.

Tom

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 162
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2019, 02:22 PM »
I bought the Parf Super Dogs, chamfer tool, and guide rail clips ... can't wait to try them out.  I probably shouldn't have bought the clips as they'll leave me cutting through the holes on the cut side of the rail but figured I have them if I need them.  Do any of you who use these have tear out issues or worry about cutting through the holes? 

In order to not cut through bench dog holes, I planned to align the guide rail by setting the splinterguard between the holes, placing scrap material underneath the rail to set the height, positioning 2 dogs perpendicular to the fence, and using my Woodpeckers 18" precision triangle with it's edge lip over the top and flush with either Festool guide rail lip.  Perhaps someday I can justify a nice TSO square but for now I've to work smart with what I have...

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 292
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2019, 04:33 PM »
I bought the Parf Super Dogs, chamfer tool, and guide rail clips ... can't wait to try them out.  I probably shouldn't have bought the clips as they'll leave me cutting through the holes on the cut side of the rail but figured I have them if I need them.  Do any of you who use these have tear out issues or worry about cutting through the holes? 

In order to not cut through bench dog holes, I planned to align the guide rail by setting the splinterguard between the holes, placing scrap material underneath the rail to set the height, positioning 2 dogs perpendicular to the fence, and using my Woodpeckers 18" precision triangle with it's edge lip over the top and flush with either Festool guide rail lip.  Perhaps someday I can justify a nice TSO square but for now I've to work smart with what I have...

If you want to avoid cutting through dog holes, you can add some more holes to the top, at the edges. You need to offset them against the original holes by 32mm or 48mm.
The existing MFT holes are 96mm centre spacing, so you could put some holes at 48mm. Then when you use the dogs, clips and rail, the kerf will be between the holes and not through them.
My tops have extra holes on all four sides.

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 162
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2019, 08:22 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion ... how did you go about plunging holes which were perfectly aligned?  Perhaps butting the rail up against bench dogs and using the router with guide rail adapter?

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 162
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2019, 02:25 PM »
I've a really nice SawStop with Incra fence but figured I'd use my TS55 and MFT/3 to cut some cabinet parts.  An optimizer had laid out stetchers so that they would be cross cut from a width I'd ripped previously.  The stretchers were 100mm wide which meant I couldn't use the end stops to make repeatable cuts.  I know they're only stretchers but it took a lot of time continuously marking and aligning the guide rail for these cuts.  Is there something I've not considered here that would have made it easier and repeatable?

@Bugsysiegals  - could you post a picture of the problem you encountered when trying to use the MFT/3 to make these stretcher cuts?
I would like to see if we have a solution in the works for this situation but can't quite get "the picture".

Hans

Hi Hans, per your request, here's an image of what I'm referring to.  In my situation, I was cutting 4" stretchers for a cabinet.  It wasn't a problem when I had long stock and continued to feed it from left to right but as I got to the end, I was left with stock which was less than the thickness of the guide rail and which wasn't under the rubber on the back of the guide rail.  It's probably not a safe method to simply press down hard on the saw and hope the stock doesn't move ... how is this properly handled? 

Secondly, I didn't like feeding left to right which is less repeatable than right to left with flag stops.  At the moment I couldn't think of how to use the flag stops but now I suppose I could have set a flag stop at the left side of the guide rail and put a 84.4mm spacer between it and the stock as an offset in order to cut 4" (101.6mm) stretchers ... is this the appropriate method for skinny stock?  I'm not sure what size stretchers people use between drawers on frame less cabinets but thought 7.25" was a waste of material which is about what I'd have to cut if I didn't add any spacer block.

297538-0

Offline tomp

  • Posts: 86
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2019, 03:21 PM »
The spacer under the rail doesn't have to be any specific width. Watch the YouTube video by Peter Millard - he gets a little wordy but the method is pretty basic. Start with a square spacer, same thickness as the stretchers to be cut, that's wider than the rail and butt it up against the fence. Set the part to be cut against the spacer and move the two parts to the left until the cut line on the part to be cut lines up with the kerf in the MFT top. Making sure that nothing moves, lower the rail to check that the splinter strip matches the cut line. Move the flag stop against the left edge of the spacer then lock it in place. For added security, you can clamp the spacer to the top so that it can't be bumped out of place. With this set-up, you can rip narrow strips withing the cross-cut capacity of the MFT all day. For longer rips, you could move the fence 90° to the end of the top and rips strips the length of the top, but I find that it's much easier to use the narrow-rip parallel guide set-up that I bought from Rick at Rip Dogs (or just cut them on the table saw, but that's another subject.)

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2019, 03:47 PM »
@Bugsysiegals - @tomp – ripping narrow stock with a track saw requires some work arounds as @tomp describes.
We generally feel a (portable) table saw with a good fence is a better tool for narrow stock ripping. But if you don’t have that option, then here’s an additional suggestion:

1.   Cut a parallel piece of material  of matching thickness that is 7"wide.
2.   Butt the sides together and apply 2-inch-wide adhesive tape 
3.   Cut the resulting “panel” that is no longer “Narrow”

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle - TDS-10 Dog Stop and GRC-12 Guide Rail Connector; Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 162
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2019, 04:02 PM »
The spacer under the rail doesn't have to be any specific width. Watch the YouTube video by Peter Millard - he gets a little wordy but the method is pretty basic. Start with a square spacer, same thickness as the stretchers to be cut, that's wider than the rail and butt it up against the fence. Set the part to be cut against the spacer and move the two parts to the left until the cut line on the part to be cut lines up with the kerf in the MFT top. Making sure that nothing moves, lower the rail to check that the splinter strip matches the cut line. Move the flag stop against the left edge of the spacer then lock it in place. For added security, you can clamp the spacer to the top so that it can't be bumped out of place. With this set-up, you can rip narrow strips withing the cross-cut capacity of the MFT all day. For longer rips, you could move the fence 90° to the end of the top and rips strips the length of the top, but I find that it's much easier to use the narrow-rip parallel guide set-up that I bought from Rick at Rip Dogs (or just cut them on the table saw, but that's another subject.)

Thanks @tomp!!  I wasn't thinking the spacer could be any arbitrary length since the flag stop is movable. 

I have a SawStop and Incra fence but they will not be available while remote so definitely appreciate your sharing so I know how to best use the guide rail.  How do you ensure the narrow rip guides are set to the right length and are exactly parallel?  Thanks for mentioning this method, I completely forgot my Seneca parallel guides came with these narrow rips attachments as I've never used them ... perhaps now I have a good use case for them!

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 162
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2019, 04:04 PM »
@Bugsysiegals - @tomp – ripping narrow stock with a track saw requires some work arounds as @tomp describes.
We generally feel a (portable) table saw with a good fence is a better tool for narrow stock ripping. But if you don’t have that option, then here’s an additional suggestion:

1.   Cut a parallel piece of material  of matching thickness that is 7"wide.
2.   Butt the sides together and apply 2-inch-wide adhesive tape 
3.   Cut the resulting “panel” that is no longer “Narrow”

Hans

Thanks @TSO Products ... It's good to know a "safe" method in case I ever do have a really narrow strip ... the last thing I want is an accident.

Offline tomp

  • Posts: 86
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2019, 08:05 PM »
@Bugsysiegals

Not sure about the Seneca, but the Rip Dogs was easy followings Richard's instructions.

Basically

- set the end of the arm underneath the rail flush with the edge of the splinter strip (I set the rail on top of two pieces of plywood and butted a small square against the splinter strip).

- set the "0" on the scale to the end of the bracket and that was it.

If you just want to rip these stringers, a quick-and easy way to go would be to set the rail on a length of stringer with the outer edge flush to the splinter strip. use two spring clamps to hold it in place and then butt the ends of the arms to the back of the stringer.

Offline Jimdude

  • Posts: 46
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2019, 06:22 AM »
I'm going to keep plugging the 'Corwin-Light' (*) setup that I use:
OK, found some old pics.

Here you see the "18mm jig" butted up against the sheet:



Now I've placed two spacers between the guard rail and the jig, ready to make a narrow parallel cut:



First parallel cut done:



Now I just placed the first strip as "master" in the jig and made the second cut (I might as well have kept using the spacers, but with the master, it is less fiddly:



And here you see how it's also possible to use this system for repeated wide parallel cuts:

PS: Yes, I know, all equipment used has a funny colour  [big grin]

The old thread with more background:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/how-to-cut-narrow-stock-on-mft3/


(*) FOG member Corwin has an elaborate setup that I simplyfied for my needs.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2019, 08:33 AM »
I have to ask---are we talking rips or cross cuts? I've seen images and wording of both in this thread.

Tom

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 162
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2019, 11:39 AM »
I was crosscutting on the MFT.  Pardon my terminology if not correct but when the board got really short and I was only able to cut one more stretcher, it appears more of a rip to me than a crosscut even though I didn't move the guide rail from it's originally mounted position.  What would you consider this, crosscut or rip?

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2019, 12:15 PM »
I’d say it’s a rip when the stock becomes so narrow that the fence is not contributing to the stability of the piece. Otherwise, with a tracksaw there’s no difference.

When cutting narrow stock with the rail the splinter guard is usually enough to hold the stock from slipping, if you feed the saw slowly enough (but not so slow the blade burns), and, you use more of the same stock under the rail to keep it level.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 292
Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2019, 04:54 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion ... how did you go about plunging holes which were perfectly aligned?  Perhaps butting the rail up against bench dogs and using the router with guide rail adapter?

I did the extra holes with a Parf Guide System (mk2)
The new holes run parallel to the existing but, have a 48mm spacing.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Repeatable widths on the MFT/3??
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2019, 08:42 PM »