That's great Wayne, one of my favorites!  Just call me Barney...

Ron, you took my comment the wrong way.  There was no tone to my question because you didn't hear my voice.  My question was trying to help you understand that a large company has many other tasks to work on and I'm sure you know that.  The fact of the matter is that Festool is working on videos, Festool is working on better manuals all at the same time and because the end result has not happened overnight, we now have people upset with the company because the videos are not ready.

I have not run a company of that size but I have successfully managed multi-million dollar contracts for my company so I know what is involved.  My company works with customers who purchase high end millwork and it's very common to come across multi-million dollar jobs here.  I am working on one right now for the Franking County Court House - Columbus, Ohio

 I do infact have a friendly attitude on this message board and I truly am sorry that you feel I don't by the contents of my previous message.  If I had this conversation with you in person you would of took it the other way.

If anyone should be upset, it should be me.  I simply tried to give you the answer that you were looking for by stating that Festool is responding to your request for video's but you haven't seen them yet because I'm sure a company like Festool has more then one project to work on.  As always, some projects are more important then others.   I tried to explain this by examples and I'm sorry you took them the wrong way or didn't understand them.  

-Dave

If you need the manual to know what it means, you better hope you're not on the freeway when the light comes on. 

Joraft,

Have you been to festool USA?  Have you seen how many work there?  It's not a lot.  Others that went would say how shocking it really is to see how many people don't work for them.  I am fully aware of how a company works.

I already told you thay they are working on  more than one project.  They are working on the video's and manuals.  They may not be shooting the video right now or writing a new manual but it's in the works.

Again, it is no excuse and second, you're actually wrong in your presumption that Festool America as to supply the manuals.

The manual of a tool is made during the development process of a tool and is done in Festool's case, in Germany. They first make one in German and then translate that in other languages. Now, the cost of a good translation isn't really worth mentioning. It's less then ONE single average Festool machine.

The problem lies in the fact that companies in general supply below-par manuals. Festool is certainly not the only company that's guilty of this. Be it household appliances, consumer electronics or tools, they make it a habit to provide manuals that aren't worth much except for toilet paper. I think it's a bad habit. A lot of tools explain themselves so there isn't that much need for a manual. But if you buy a new DVD player with 200 functions, it can be quite a hassle to become to understand them. 

Now with a Chinese factory that can make a saw for under 20 dollars production cost in their sweatshop, you can expect it and sort of accept it, but with a top of the notch brand like Festool, it's simply not what you'd expect.

And manuals also don't need to become too complicated. If I buy a Festool, I don't expect them to tell me how I can make a cabinet with it. But I do expect them to inform me about every single function they incorporated in the machine. That means, if there's a knob on it, I want to see in the manual what it's for. If there's a notch on it somewhere, I want to be able to look it up in the manual and read about it's intended use.

I just now for the first time read this thread start to finish and found it very Choppy and hard to read.  someone pulled out Fourm mfg's posts that were salient to understanding the conversation..... we are all big kids here  let us play  read

Craig

Indeed,

This thread is now quite a mess. Better to at least leave the persons post and delete the content with an explanation...

Festool should realize that this issue of poor quality manuals is first and foremost a detractor from potential sales.  The only reason  I have bought as many Festool products as I have is because the dealer has been so forthcoming with info and Jerry Work and Brice Burrell have posted helpful information for all to read and use.

Yes the tool manuals are made in Germany, I was referring to FestoolUSA, at their own expense, putting out the supplemental manuals (Rick's and Jerry's manuals). Festool Germany seems to be happy with the quality of the current manuals and are unwilling to spend money to improve them.

I do agree with that it isn't Festool's responsibility to teach you how to use the tools in every conceivable manner in the manual. Like you, I'd like to know what all the knobs, buttons and levers do. If the engineers took the time to build in a feature I want to know about it. 

I'll take that bet! You don't get tools that work this well from mere engineers.

I think in many respects the poor manuals is a German thing to some extent.  Great engineering...not so good at manual writing. I have a $1,000 Weller Soldering and Rework station and the manuals are very poor for it.  Another German company/product that is very high quality but lacking in basic manual information even though they have translated the few pages they do provide into about 15 languages....

Leigh Industries probably has some of the most useful manuals and quick reference cards in the entire woodworking tools business, IMHO...

Best,
Todd

Well, there is what I've already posted about Festool Germany's seeming indifference to providing better documentation. It can cost a lot money to produce quality, detailed documentation. The fact that Festool is coming out with new uses for the Domino all the time is proof enough for me that Festool is committed extensive research and product development. I bet their doing things with the Domino not of us could imagine. I'm excited to see what the future brings for the Domino. Can the documentation be better, you bet it can. The question is who's going to do it?

I've got a lot of respect for what you've done with the Domino and teaming up with Ideal Tools teaching classes is a great concept. I wish we had your classes here. So, maybe you could write a Domino users guide, maybe Festool would be willing to commission the work, maybe not. I've done a tremendous amount of un-sponsored documentation for the Festool user community. At a certain point it's up to us to support the user community.    

Alex,  I disagree, because Festool tools are somewhat more complicated and packed with features than  some competitors' tools, and many of these features  aren't immediately obvious at first glance.  That is where my dealer has been so helpful, and has made the difference in many cases where I might not have decided to buy something in the first place. Secondly I buy a lot of materials, products, fixtures and tools for work, and there are a lot of lousy instructions out there that I have to deal with, but there are also quite a few that I see that are done pretty well.  It is something that Festool can do if they decide to do it, and I think for a premium tool is it something that should be done.If it  adds 3-5% to the cost of the tool to support the preparation of Festool-quality documentation with each tool, then I am ready to pay for that.

Oh. Well, I'm not under that impression. Comparable machines by competitors can do the same stuff Festools can. Now there are a couple of machines from Festool that are somewhat unique and a step up from the competition, like the Domino and the plunge saws, but that's it.
 
And about actually buying a tool, and making the decision about it before you buy it, well I think that most people don't even get to see the manual but just look at brochures, ads, sales stories by the folks at the store, and perhaps some read reviews online. I think actually very few people weigh in the manual at forehand.

However, if you find a nice manual in the box after the sale, a manual that will explain all the tool's features in a nice and clear fashion, then that will make you appreciate your tool and the company that made it only more.

Beating a dead horse. Festool is well aware of the manual problem.

Thanks for the great tip brought back from the training class.

Don't forget that training is a very big revenue generator for some companies.