Author Topic: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help  (Read 2330 times)

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Offline kitui

  • Posts: 39
So I had a piece of wood, cut all 4 sides in sequence with the FS track rail (using clips and long bench dogs) and some positioning dogs. I checked.... the positioning dogs and the saw rail are perpendicular (precision square was used to verify and...the square was "verified" as well last week when I purchased it). After all cuts in sequence, I check the squareness and on the last side is not 90 degree with the 2 adjacent sides. I am getting crazy...what could it been? Could it be the blade of the saw is not straight? The saw is brand new (3 months old). I follow this process 3 times with no luck.  [eek]
For your information...I am doing what Peter P does in:


So ... what it is weird is that only one corner is off...this is mathematically impossible
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 03:57 PM by kitui »

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Offline mwbrewster

  • Posts: 32
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2018, 03:59 PM »
Using Peter's method, how have you verified the first (reference).edge is perfectly straight and square?

you may want to make a 5th cut of the first side.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 04:11 PM by mwbrewster »

Offline kitui

  • Posts: 39
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2018, 04:30 PM »
It was a fresh cut...so I would say I cut the piece of wood 5 times.  [sad]

Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2538
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2018, 04:38 PM »
...
So ... what it is weird is that only one corner is off...

Sounds like user error. Something must have moved or you don't have a close relationship with your dogs.  [unsure]
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 230
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 04:40 PM »
Are your long dogs bolted to the top from the underside?
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

Offline mwbrewster

  • Posts: 32
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2018, 04:45 PM »
Kitui, just sent you a PM.

Offline kitui

  • Posts: 39
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2018, 05:14 PM »
My dogs are held by knobs underneath :(. I might try another set of holes and my pushing position. I am not pushing forward but side by side (dogs are resisting my push so they are in the right position). Getting frustrated. I have had great results and made so many fabulous face frames. Not sure what happened in the last 5 days.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4923
  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2018, 04:54 PM »
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 12:14 PM by jobsworth »

Offline kitui

  • Posts: 39
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2018, 10:45 AM »
Not sure I totally understand the Kapex and the issue about angles. I followed Peter Parfitt 's video which follows elementary math and few algebra property. So assuming that Side A is straight, assuming that my dogs are perfectly aligned and perpendicular to the rail, here what should happen. I cut side B perpendicular to side A. Turn 90 degree, cut side C perpendicular to side B, same for D perpendicular to C. If everything goes well, I am done because of Math Transitive Law: D is perpendicular to A.  Although, I cut side A again to find if there is any difference between the two ends of the cut. After 2 additional attempts, I think that there were 2 issues. My position while cutting and the standard clamps (no Festool) that might have shifted the board. I am getting closer to better results but not as good as Peter. Using a bad ply. Probably if I try with BB, would be best. Anyway, here my result on the "recut" of side A: the difference between the 2 ends is 0.79mm. 0.79mm divided by 369mm (length of the last cut) and divided by 4 gives me 0.00053777. Which is the margin of error on a single cut ( per Peter's video). I think it is ok after all. Correct?

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2113
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2018, 03:41 PM »
When you said you were pushing the saw side by side, do you mean applying pressure at an angle to the direction of the cut?
Birdhunter

Offline kitui

  • Posts: 39
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2018, 06:25 PM »
Yes, I am not very tall and the cut was more than 24"...so I had no choice. Having the cut done side by side allows me to cut short and long (using the longest side of my MFT). However, it should work anyway because the saw rail is 55"...what about if I have to cut ..let's say 47" length piece? Maybe I just need to be aware of angle pressure.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2113
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2018, 06:29 PM »
I try to push the track saw in line with the cut. There is less chance of skewing the cut line.
Birdhunter

Offline mwbrewster

  • Posts: 32
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2018, 07:22 PM »
I try to push the track saw in line with the cut. There is less chance of skewing the cut line.

thats good advice.  I would also suggest keeping your left hand on the auxiliary handle and applying gentle pressure to make sure the saw sits square/plumb on the rail through the cut.  When I get in a hurry and only use one hand, I tend to stand offset from the rail and the quality of cut is diminished.  Using two hands and keeping your shoulders centered over and in line with the rail through the cut is good practice.  You'll probably notice that the saw works through the material easier if you do. If so, that would suggest that you've been introducing unwanted deflection into the saw/cut, potentially resulting in cuts off square.

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 21
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2018, 10:33 AM »
So ... what it is weird is that only one corner is off...this is mathematically impossible

This is possible only if one or more of the cuts are not straight. Do you have a good straight-edge to check? (N. B. Not a ruler, which are not guaranteed straight.)

Another thing to check is that you are not skewing the cut as you move along. That’s possible if you’re stretching and your saw is not adjusted properly on the rail. This video shows how to adjust:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bh62EM8H3Ts/?hl=en&taken-by=festoolsedge

Offline justard

  • Posts: 11
Re: So, it is not squared...why? - Getting crazy - please help
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2018, 04:27 AM »
I have learn something new here today