Author Topic: Table leg/apron joinery with DF500?  (Read 1075 times)

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Offline gearhound

  • Posts: 31
Table leg/apron joinery with DF500?
« on: September 26, 2017, 10:01 PM »
Hey guys/gals,

I'm attempting to make my 1st table using domino joinery and am looking for suggestions on (1) setting up the domino properly and (2) ways to make the table more rigid.

I've only made 3 tables since getting into woodworking a couple years ago (two Ana White pocket-hole specials and one with half-laps...all using crappy pine as the legs/aprons) so any advice would be greatly appreciated. This is made out of poplar as a cheap test-run before trying to make a similar design out of walnut. I've attached some pics of the current dry-fit.

(1) I've had the domino for a few months and up till now have been using it to build cabinets, mitered boxes, and making panels....in all these uses I could reference of the flaps, use the pin index attachment for domino placement, or draw a simple straight line. With these table legs/aprons I had to rely on drawing lines to reference off of and it was a pain in the dick. To draw the lines I had to clamp the apron down and attempt to hold the leg square while at the same time using a combination square to draw the lines....probably would be better to plow the mortises before tapering the legs? I didn't have a good setup for easily aligning them so I had to transfer lines around the table leg and definitely ended up off a tad as a result....there has to be an easier way to mark these lines that I'm not thinking of. I did however love how easy it is to add a reveal into the table leg by adjusting the fence


(2) all the joints are done with two 8x50 dominos....are these dominos big enough for a table that's 48" x 27."? I'm planning on adding corner supports, but not sure on exact design as I've never made them before. Any suggestions?

Wondering if I should also add some supports in the middle to aid in stability...would you domino these in or go with a simple pocket-hole so it could be added after the initial glue-up?


Thanks for reading and suggestions you can provide!



« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 10:09 PM by gearhound »

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Offline Trosey

  • Posts: 79
Re: Table leg/apron joinery with DF500?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2017, 11:14 PM »
Dry fit..great idea.

500 or 700?

nominal 1 by aprons..3/4"?

8 mm dominos the largest that I would recommend if so.

Set your combination square on the distance that you are going down from the top of the leg.  Mark the distance on the legs....then mark the distance on the aprons..you do not need to go around the corner on the legs. You have not changed the combination square.

Yes, I would install a cross member between the long aprons. I would use corner braces....about 4 or 5 inches with a 45 degree cut on each end and screwed into the aprons.

Good luck, I love me some walnut.

Trosey

Oops...just noticed 500

my bad.

Online Gregor

  • Posts: 481
Re: Table leg/apron joinery with DF500?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 01:59 AM »
probably would be better to plow the mortises before tapering the legs?
That makes it a bit easier, but as you still have a square end (on the top) you still should be able to clamp them reliably there.

Quote
I didn't have a good setup for easily aligning them so I had to transfer lines around the table leg and definitely ended up off a tad as a result....there has to be an easier way to mark these lines that I'm not thinking of.
Simply measure their distances from the top (oriented in final assembly position). You can use a cutoff as ruler to have them all identical, just align flush with the top (what would be the top in final orientation) and draw the line.

Quote
(2) all the joints are done with two 8x50 dominos....are these dominos big enough for a table that's 48" x 27."? I'm planning on adding corner supports, but not sure on exact design as I've never made them before. Any suggestions?
No idea what you plan to do on the table, but two 8x20 glued in should already give some strength.
Simple diagonal bracers in the corners (held in with dominos and glued) should stop the frame from going out of square.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 02:01 AM by Gregor »

Offline fignewton

  • Posts: 65
  • "Fine Quality Sawdust"
Re: Table leg/apron joinery with DF500?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2017, 07:47 AM »
Another good way to do your corner braces  is use a tongue and groove router set if you have one.  cut grooves at the ends of the aprons, make your triangle-shaped corner pieces to whatever length you need and cut tongues on them to go into the grooves on the apron.  Make them flush with the top of the apron.  Cut the inside tip of the triangle off where it would interfere with the leg if that is an issue.  Then glue in during assembly.  This is a method used by Sommerfeld in their T&G construction and it works very well. Look for their cabinet building video on YouTube to see what I mean.  It also gives you a place you can slot for mounting the top with screws from underneath through the corner brace.
TS55, MFT3+, OF1400, C12, CT-26, LR-32 system, Domino 500, RO125, MFK 700, Carvex w/ accsy, Sys-roll,  CXS, Kapex, UG with extensions

Offline clark_fork

  • Posts: 247
Re: Table leg/apron joinery with DF500?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2017, 10:01 AM »
I have fully adapted Maestro Peter's spacer technique anytime I use more than one domino on the apron. This is  a fool proof way to keep the parts fitting perfectly.




I find the button system to attach the table top workable in most cases.



I use this system (Peter again) for keeping the leg mortises cut in the right direction



Lastly, if using 50mm dominos, good results may require cutting a 45° angle at one end.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 10:08 AM by clark_fork »
Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline gearhound

  • Posts: 31
Re: Table leg/apron joinery with DF500?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2017, 10:53 AM »
.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 10:57 AM by gearhound »

Offline gearhound

  • Posts: 31
Re: Table leg/apron joinery with DF500?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2017, 10:56 AM »
Dry fit..great idea.

Set your combination square on the distance that you are going down from the top of the leg.  Mark the distance on the legs....then mark the distance on the aprons..you do not need to go around the corner on the legs. You have not changed the combination square.

Yes, I would install a cross member between the long aprons. I would use corner braces....about 4 or 5 inches with a 45 degree cut on each end and screwed into the aprons.


Thanks! I can't believe I didn't think to just use the combination square I had in my hand already! I made drawing the lines as difficult as possible.....this will make the workflow so much quicker!

Would you domino in the cross member or attach it in some other manner?


Simple diagonal bracers in the corners (held in with dominos and glued) should stop the frame from going out of square.

Thanks for these suggestions!

Is domino'ing in the braces the best route opposed to just using glue & screws? Not sure what to reference off of on the aprons when mortising?


I have fully adapted Maestro Peter's spacer technique anytime I use more than one domino on the apron. This is  a fool proof way to keep the parts fitting perfectly.




I use this system (Peter again) for keeping the leg mortises cut in the right direction



Lastly, if using 50mm dominos, good results may require cutting a 45° angle at one end.

Thanks for the link to this video, I'll watch it later today. I did have problems keeping all the parts in order and need to develop a good way of marking and laying them out so I don't mortise a domino in the wrong place.

I'm not sure how I'd go about cutting a 45 angle on one? If I did this on the apron I'd blow thru the other side.


« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 11:01 AM by gearhound »

Online Gregor

  • Posts: 481
Re: Table leg/apron joinery with DF500?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2017, 12:17 PM »

Simple diagonal bracers in the corners (held in with dominos and glued) should stop the frame from going out of square.

Thanks for these suggestions!

Is domino'ing in the braces the best route opposed to just using glue & screws? Not sure what to reference off of on the aprons when mortising?
Same strategy as you would do with the aprons and the legs: To create the center line for the dominos: hold the bracer into the dry-fit assembled corner (aligned flush with the top of the aprons) and draw the center line on both the bracer and the apron in one stroke.
Pick a depth for placing the dominos in the middle of the bracers, set the fence to that+x to move the bracers down by x (when referencing from the top) when doing the apron side mortices.

Offline clark_fork

  • Posts: 247
Re: Table leg/apron joinery with DF500?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2017, 12:47 PM »
Quote: "I'm not sure how I'd go about cutting a 45 angle on one? If I did this on the apron I'd blow thru the other side. "

I was referring to the Dominos fitting into the leg. Here is an example and the jig I use with my Kapex Jr. to safely cut Dominos.



Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline eddomak

  • Posts: 269
Re: Table leg/apron joinery with DF500?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2017, 09:38 PM »
Set your combination square on the distance that you are going down from the top of the leg.  Mark the distance on the legs....then mark the distance on the aprons..you do not need to go around the corner on the legs. You have not changed the combination square.

If you want to purchase something that would help, then the Incra T-Rules can also help get consistent measurements in the same manner, but this time you can do both lines.

I too love how the reveal can be factored in so simply by lowering the fence.  [big grin]